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METS CLOSERS: A RETROSPECTIVE

Just a quick rundown of the Mets closers since 1990.

YEAR   PLAYER                      IP    ERA    SO   BB   HR   SV
2005   Braden Looper        59.1   3.94    27   22    7   28
2004   Braden Looper        83.1   2.70    60   16    5   29
2003   Armando Benitez      51.0   3.71    35   17    6   21
2002   Armando Benitez      67.1   2.27    79   25    8   33
2001   Armando Benitez      76.1   3.77    93   40   12   43
2000   Armando Benitez      76.0   2.60   106   38   10   41
1999   Armando Benitez      78.0   1.85   128   41    4   22
1999   John Franco          40.2   2.88    41   19    1   19
1998   John Franco          64.2   3.62    59   29    4   38
1997   John Franco          60.0   2.55    53   20    3   36
1996   John Franco          54.0   1.83    48   21    2   28
1995   John Franco          51.2   2.44    41   17    4   29
1994   John Franco          50.0   2.70    42   19    2   30
1993   John Franco          36.1   5.20    29   19    6   10
1992   John Franco          33.0   1.64    20   11    1   15
1991   John Franco          55.1   2.93    45   18    2   30
1990   John Franco          67.2   2.53    56   21    4   33
The Mets have featured only three closers in the past 16 seasons. Johnny Franco was a very good pitcher for a very long time. Armando Benitez' 1999 will go down as one of the single greatest reliever seasons in baseball history. His K/9 rate of 14.77 was the best ever until Eric Gagne bested it a few years back. He also only surrendered four homeruns that year in almost 80 innings.

Looking at these numbers I forgot how good Mets closers have been. We have given them a lot of grief, particularly because of certain blown saves in certain big games. On the whole, Franco and Benitez were terrific, and even Looper had a very good 2004 season before falling in a ditch in 2005.

Billy Wagner probably won't approach the numbers 'Mando put up in 1999, but I expect him to be damn good.

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Closers
Mets closers have been exceptional.  Having a lot of stability at the position certainly helps.  I believe from 1999-2002, no one in baseball had a better save % than Armando Benitez.  And John Franco was a great closer through and through.

Trivia question: Which Met not named Franco or Benitez had the most saves in the 90's?

by Alex Nelson on Nov 29, 2005 10:02 PM EST reply actions  

robo
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Nov 29, 2005 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

the benitez problem
was that he imploded in big spots too much, my Benitez memory includes his role in Game 6 of NLCS, I would much rather Wagner not be as good in May and June and be lights out Sept and Oct
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Nov 29, 2005 10:33 PM EST up reply actions  

No Question
He had a lot of problems in the postseason, nobody will deny that. It's easy to lose sight of all of the great pitching he did when he wasn't blowing games against the Braves.

by Eric Simon on Nov 29, 2005 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Benitez
Well, just remember (and this is overstating things a bit) that maybe if Benitez wasn't as good in April and May, there wouldn't be big spots for him to fail in.

Also just think: how many closers not named Rivera, Wagner, and Hoffman would you rather have had over that same time period (1999-2002)?  Automatic closers with a proven postseason track record are extremely rare and practically nonexistant outside of Rivera.

by Alex Nelson on Nov 29, 2005 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I watched in horror
as the ball leapt off JT Snow's bat, bottom of the 9th, game 2 of the 2000 NLDS. I was seated 25 rows back of home looking straight down the right field line. And so I and a few others knew it was fair right off the bat...the thing I didn't know was whether it would hit the metal facing or the wall.

Fortunately we came back (I was in the huge bathroom line at PacBell for Fonzie's blast in the 10th) and I watched Franco strikeout Bonds on a low and away changeup to win it.

That's an example why having two "closers" is more important than having five good starters in my book: Heilman isn't blocked by Wagner. You need someone to pitch the 7th and 8th and especially a fireman for when the bases are juiced in the 6th. Think Rivera and Wetteland 1996: we should have two aces in the pen, it will take the pressure off the entire staff and team.

by peeder on Nov 29, 2005 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

3 most saves
Anthony Young?
"It's Father's Day today at Shea, so to all you fathers out there, Happy Birthday." -- Ralph Kiner

by dissento on Nov 30, 2005 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

AY
Yep.  Anthony Young, Mr. 27-straight-losses.  He had a great fastball, and when Johnny Franco got injured in 1992, he was the guy they went to.  Pitched fairly well, considering what he's known for.  He wasn't a good pitcher, but certainly not as bad as 0-27 suggests.

by Alex Nelson on Nov 30, 2005 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Very Bold
Nice job talking trash while hiding behind an anonymous post. Kudos!

by Eric Simon on Nov 29, 2005 10:35 PM EST reply actions  

Proven Winner
It's easy to get wrapped up in terms like "proven winner" or "veteran presence", when these things don't really mean anything. Actual production is what counts, and Benjie Molina has been declining defensively for the past few years. His offense leaves much to be desired, too. He doesn't walk enough and he doesn't hit for that much power. He had a great series against the Yankees this year, but he's really a step down from Ramon Hernandez.

On Hernandez, I don't know that he's "in the bag". If the Mets want to overpay for a catcher they can have anyone they want, but there is no clear stud in the catching crop as their was in the group of closers (Wagner) or available sluggers (Delgado). I'd be perfectly happy with Ramon Castro catching next season. He was solid all-around and he makes very little money. The Mets need some cheaper players at some positions because in a few years David Wright and Jose Reyes will be making big bucks and they won't be able to afford to overpay for a 36-year-old Molina.

by Eric Simon on Nov 29, 2005 11:03 PM EST reply actions  

idiot,
I think that username is still available. We'll reserve it for you...just click "Create Account".

by peeder on Nov 29, 2005 11:17 PM EST reply actions  

I leave you idiots alone for a few minutes...
and come back here to see a dozen new posts.  What's going on?  Oh, someone mentioned Armando Benitez.  

With all due respect to Eric Simon and to the numbers, I have to say that I'm more sympathetic to the knee-jerk Mets fan's reaction on this question than on most others.  My (our) memory of Benitez -- which ought to include a fair picture of his at-times absolute dominance -- is, instead, colored by the gradual tail-off into mediocrity, the lost control and the eventually mediocre fastball, and most of all by all those big-game chokes.  The guy was a truly godlike great closer in regular-season games against Colorado and Pittsburgh.  But I can name so many times in late-season Braves games, Yankees interleague play, and the postseason that he had to be bailed out by the dessicated corpse of Johnny Franco.  I could never really say I was happy to see Armando enter a game; and in my book he's a great example of the irrelevancy of the save as a statistic.

All that said, what I'd really like to see for once in my frigging life is a team that produces more than league-average numbers of runs, and so doesn't have to win as many close games.  We long-time Mets fans get hung up on the bullpen, and on these late-and-close situations, I think, because we've forgotten what a lineup of real hitters can do.  The Mets have been relatively pitching-strong and hitting-weak for so long that I can't remember what it feels like to notch up a series of wins by more than a couple runs each.  I'll go out on a limb here and say it even more plainly: I think Delgado is worth more wins to the '06 Mets than Wagner.  Maybe many more.  (Of course, and I say this with the same shit-eatin' grin we're all bearing this week, who needs to pick just one?)

(Molina? No way.  But we've discussed that elsewhere.)

by anonymous on Nov 30, 2005 1:05 AM EST reply actions  

about the hitting
the Mets throughout their history have been about pitching, pitching and more pitching. You can make the case that the 2000 team was our best offensive team ever. Our fortunes will be decided on the mound as usual this year. But Delgado sure does help.
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Nov 30, 2005 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

2000?
Do you mean 99?  The '99 team with Henderson and Olerud and Cedeno was much better offensively than the 2000 squad.  Ventura had career highs in alot of categories, Alfonso had a breakout year.  Even Rey Ordonez had 60 RBI that year, because everyone was on base.  That team made the playoffs despite Leiter, Rick Reed, and Franco being out for much of the year. (that's the 1 and 2 starter and the closer.)  

You can try to make the case for 2000, but I think that 99 was much much better.   (I still think that team would have beaten the Yankees, if they had just gotten past the Braves.)

Ever since then an anemic offense and inability to drive in runners on base have been hallmarks of the Mets.

by peteyfan45 @ Amazin' Avenue on Dec 1, 2005 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah 99 is what i meant oops
its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Dec 1, 2005 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

it's total hearsay, but...
I heard the Mets offered Piazza a year for maybe a million bucks to essentially be a bench player, and he turned it down, because he wants to play every day.

I have to say that I agree with you, though: a Castro/Piazza platoon would still be one of the most productive catcher positions in the National League.  Hell, each of them could just catch every other game, or break it up 60/40, and both would remain fresh throughout the season.

If I were Mike, I'd reconsider whatever the Mets might have offered in light of the recent moves the team has made, because I would want one more shot at a ring.  Granted, it might be an outside shot, but this team is already much improved from last year.

How much sweeter would Piazza's career be if he retired after winning a World Series with the Mets?

by kingcritical on Nov 30, 2005 10:30 AM EST reply actions  

Yes, but...
60/40 wouldn't make sense because there is 162 games in a season, not 100.  And Piazza showed last season that even with a day or so of rest, he still isn't a great offensive force, definitely not what he used to be.  And don't forget about his throwing- it is time to get a better throwing regular catcher.  And Ramon is just fine as the starter himself.
2QYankeehater: Diehard Mets fan, huge Yankeehater, and worshipper of David Wright.

by 2QYankeehater on Nov 30, 2005 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks for the baseball lesson
There are really 162 games in the season?  I always thought there were 100.

Well, since there are 162, I'd say Castro and Piazza should split their time 60 PERCENT and 40 PERCENT, or roughly 97 games for Castro and 65 for Piazza.  Give me a break.

OK, enough with the snark...

Yeah, we all know that Piazza ain't what he used to be, but that's irrelevant.  The point is (and I think I mentioned it), Piazza last season was still among the most productive catchers on offense in the National League!

Go to MLB.com and look it up.  You can sort the stats by NL catchers.  Piazza led the NL among catchers in home runs and RBI.  He was third in total bases.  Tied for second in walks.  Tied for fifth in slugging.  Granted, his OBP and BA leave something to be desired, but it's not like there are a ton of catchers in the league who are kicking his ass on offense.

And when you add Castro's numbers to Piazza's, which I'm not going to do right now, you get pretty damn good numbers at the position, relative to the rest of the league.

And that was my original point.  Yeah, he's not 1999-style Mike.  But if he could handle a platoon (and a pay cut), I don't think it could hurt the Mets, and it would be real nice for him to have one more shot at a championship.  Fan favorite and all that.  Jeez.

by kingcritical on Dec 1, 2005 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

ooooo
I've been an advocate of a Piazza/Castro combo for 2006 since the season ended. Frankly, even if Piazza doesn't come back I have no problem going into the season with Castro as the starting catcher. I don't think Molina/Hernandez represent enough of an upgrade over Castro to justify the massive difference in salary ($500K for Castro, $7-$8M for Molina/Hernandez).

by Eric Simon on Dec 1, 2005 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed
I think we're in complete agreement, especially regarding the FAs available.  And I like Castro myself--I think he got better as the season went on.

What I don't like is when people crap on Piazza just because he doesn't hit like he used to.

A quick review of the stats proves that even last season, Piazza was among the best hitting catchers.

Once more, in case some people still don't get it: if he would agree to a huge pay cut and less playing time, I think it would be nice to have him on the team.  Bat him eighth when he plays.

by kingcritical on Dec 1, 2005 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...
But his throwing just cannot be tolerated anymore.  The Mets were hurt so much last year because of his throwing.  And I don't think Castro at the plate right now is any better than Piazza in this day and age.
2QYankeehater: Diehard Mets fan, huge Yankeehater, and worshipper of David Wright.

by 2QYankeehater on Dec 4, 2005 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

No
I don't agree.  Pedro is Pedro, and as long as he doesn't get injured he continues his dominance.  Glavine was about the third best pitcher in the NL last year after the break, and he will continue next year.  He now throws a curveball and velosity has never really been better.  Benson was alright last year.  He pitched many good games and had a few bad ones.  I expect his win total to go up now that Billy Wagner is here, and that goes for everyone on the staff.  Then there is Steve Tracshel, who is a decent, consistent pitcher.  He had some really good starts when he first came off the DL.  And Jae Seo has come a long way.  He was amazing last year after he came back from the minors.  He was just great.  And in case one of these people falters, there is always Victor Zambrano (though that might not be and upgrade) and Aaron Heilman.  So, I would say that this is one of the best and deepest staffs in the NL.
2QYankeehater: Diehard Mets fan, huge Yankeehater, and worshipper of David Wright.

by 2QYankeehater on Nov 30, 2005 6:03 PM EST reply actions  

2B
There isn't really a second baseman worth throwing money at. Grudz or Graffanino may be the best FA options and they wouldn't cost much anyway. I like Ray Durham a lot. His lowest OPS since 1998 was last year's .785. Not a bad stopgap for a year or two.

by Eric Simon on Dec 1, 2005 1:24 PM EST reply actions  

Durham
Is Durham available?  If so, he'd be a better option than anyone else.  He's been a very consistent player over his career and is still capable of posting a .350+ OBP.

by Alex Nelson on Dec 1, 2005 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Nomar?
i would do that for the right price with incentives (#ab), esp. cause it looks like kaz is gonna be on the team i still i think he go .290/.340/.500 with 20 hrs and not kill you defensively

its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rou

its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on Dec 2, 2005 9:31 PM EST reply actions  

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