Alternatives to Lima Time!

by OSUmets on May 18, 2006 5:18 PM EDT Comment 12 comments

I just read over at MetsBlog that Joe Mays is a free agent and I saw yesterday that Kyle Lohse was sent down to AAA by the Twins. I would think either of them would be a better option that Jose Lima pitching once every 5 days for the Mets.

I'm not a big numbers guy (but I know some of you are so you can help me out here) but after a quick look at Lohse's numbers, they arent that terrible. He has struggled this year but he had a 4.18 ERA last year and a K/BB ratio of about 2. Mays's numbers are pretty bad so he might not be much better than Lima Time but I think I would rather have Lohse than Lima at this point. He would probably at least give us a chance to win when he is on the mound.

Anyone else have some thoughts on this matter (violent Jose Lima thoughts notwithstanding)? Anyone else have some other solutions for this problem especially since Bannister got hurt again today in his rehab start?

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Mays/Lohse

Mays certainly isn't a better option than Lima; his last three seasons:

82 ERA+
73 ERA+
78 ERA+

ERA+ is a pitcher's ERA relative to the league, with 100 being league average. Anything less than 100 is below average, and Mays has been 20% below average consistently for a long time.

Lima's last three years are 103, 102 and 62 (!), for the record. Pretty shabby as well, but Mays is, at best, a lateral move, if not an overall downgrade.

Kyle Lohse, if available, is an immediate upgrade over Lima. He is still just 27 years old, and his ERA has floated right around the league average. If he were available for a reasonable price (say, Carlos Gomez), I would make the trade in a heartbeat.

by Eric Simon on May 18, 2006 6:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Aaron Heilman

And no, god no, to Lohse. He sucks balls. I live in Minnesota and people will trade him for nothing.

by future on May 18, 2006 9:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Lohse

I think you have to look at the numbers on Lohse. Part of the fan backlash with him was his potential, as he was very highly touted when he came up to the bigs four years ago and he has never really excelled. He is a league-average pitcher and the Mets would kill to have that as their 4th or 5th starter.

by Eric Simon on May 18, 2006 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't look at the numbers,

For once, numbers mean nothing. Lohse is so bad he got sent to the minors.

What's maddening is he can be good. He has one good start, and then three bad ones. Then a good start.

Maybe we could harness that...make him consistently good.

But I really really don't want to see him in a Mets uniform.

(Though I think even picking a random fan out of the stands would do a better job than Lima Time.)

by future on May 19, 2006 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So...

...we both agree that Lohse is better than Lima Time! Lohse is young and would represent an upgrade over our #5 and most likely our #4 starters. I'm sorry if you don't "want to see him in a Mets uniform"; if he's available on the cheap the Mets would be foolish not to take a flyer on him. This isn't like signing a 30-something washed-up Danny Graves; Lohse is still young enough to turn things around.

by Eric Simon on May 19, 2006 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

Only because he would be replacing Lima.

But Lohse is also getting 3.5 million.

by future on May 19, 2006 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

3.5

True. If he fails to report to the Twins MnL camp within 72 hours of demotion he will become a free agent and his contract is voided. Should he report, any trade for Lohse would likely include a bit of money back from Minnesota to offset his salary.

by Eric Simon on May 19, 2006 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would take Lohse if

we could get him cheap. To add to some of the other thoughts I think a switch to the NL(more pitcher friendly) would help his numbers and without hitters being familiar with him he may excel for awhile(see Arroyo, Bronson). Not sure if that is a good comp or not but it seems about right. Eric do you think it would take Carlos Gomez to get him or could we get away with less?

by udamnwright on May 18, 2006 10:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Also

if not a trade for a guy like this. I think calling up Soler may be a good option. I am interested in seeing Gonzalez tom since I missed his start Sat., I think he may be a useful 5th starter but am not sure.

by udamnwright on May 18, 2006 11:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well just like that the Depraved return from the

dead. Now just 3.5 out.

It's important whatever we do we make sure we get it done before the Braves do, seeing as they are in similar waters.

I'm satisfied with Heilman Soler and Bell, moving Julio into Heilman's spot, until we get a better picture. But if someone comes available, we have to act first or else we may be in for a more challenging ride than we bargained for.

by peeder on May 19, 2006 12:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Darren Oliver!

He pitched fine again tonight against the Yankees, and if you'd rather keep Heilman in the pen (where he looked tremendous tonight) then let Oliver start. He's looked good all year, he's been a starter all his career, and even if he's not as good going six as he is going three, it can't be as bad as Lima and Gonzalez (of course, the Mets don't owe Gonzalez or Lima $16 million next year the way a certain other team owes a certain tall lefty who appears finished, so let's be thankful for that).

I'm changing my signature.

Free Ramon Castro! Let him start!

by Greenpoint Ian on May 19, 2006 11:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The argument would be

Why not go with major league pitchers in the rotation instead of minor leaguers? I.e. Oliver and Heilman, and bring up Bell, Owens, etc. to fill mopup in the pen.

Bullpens are sexy I guess, but the way things used to work was your best 4 (then 5) started, and the rest sat around waiting to see if things got out of hand.

Given number of innings pitched, it's hard to fault the old logic.

by peeder on May 20, 2006 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs