Kazmir keeps "sucking"

by Pedrito on May 22, 2006 1:27 PM EDT

This is going to haunt us for his entire career, straight from the Elias Sports Bureau. It's very depressing.

Scott Kazmir topped Dontrelle Willis to complete the Devil Rays' sweep of the Marlins. You could make a strong case that Kazmir, not Willis, is now the "best young left-hander" not just in Florida, but in the majors. At the time of last year's All-Star break, Willis was 13-4 with a 2.39 ERA while Kazmir was 3-7 with a 4.59 ERA. But since then, Willis is 10-11 with a 3.72 ERA and Kazmir is 14-4 with a 2.61 ERA.

Kazmir earned his seventh victory of the year in the Devil Rays' 44th game. That's the earliest in a season that a Tampa Bay pitcher has ever reached that mark; Kazmir did it in six fewer games than it took Rolando Arrojo during the Rays' inaugural season (game No. 50 in 1998).

Kazmir is tied for the major league lead in wins. Over the eight previous years of Tampa Bay's brief history (1998-2005) no Devil Rays pitcher finished a season ranked among the top 30 winners in the majors. Only two ranked among the top 50: Arrojo in 1998 (14 wins tied him for the 32nd spot among the leaders) and Tanyon Sturtze in 2001 (tied for 50th with 11 wins).

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W-L

Kazmir's win-loss record is really not the right way to assess his performance at all, because he's pitching for a much better team this year. It's still very impressive, and I wouldn't want to take away from the accomplishment of anyone who can lead his league in wins while playing for Tampa Bay, but these aren't the quadruple-A Devil Rays of the last couple years. It's now a legitimate major-league team, and should at least "make some noise down the stretch" (as they say) and/or vie for 3rd/4th place in the division this year. Kazmir is improving, too, but you'd have to look at his individual performance and peripheral stats to see that (not that I've done the work of rounding these up, and ideally you'd want some defense-independent stats, too, since it seems at least subjectively like Tampa's improved a lot in that regard recently).

by anonymous on May 22, 2006 4:32 PM EDT reply actions

Get over it

It happened. It's over with. There are no take-backs. Duquette wrongfully put all his money on one spot on the roulette wheel, he let the pressure of running a team in NY get to him, he thought getting Benson and Zambrano would lead the Mets to the playoffs.

He guessed wrong and eventually lost his job. He'll never be a big league GM again, at least for any intelligent owner.

To me, the biggest mistake he made was not signing Vlad. We could have easily had him. Could you imagine how dominant this team would be with Reyes-Beltran-Vlad-Delgado-Wright-Floyd-Lo Duca-Matsui-Pitcher.

At least the Zambrano deal was a gamble. Not signing Vlad was just retarded.

"I got my pregnant wife (the Yankee fan) with me. Hoping my kid learns to kick her everytime the Mets score." -Schifftis-

by future on May 22, 2006 4:55 PM EDT reply actions

fantasy baseball

The money for at least Beltran, and possibly Pedro as well, would never have been available if the Mets had signed Vladimir. That's not to say it would've been the wrong decision to sign him -- Cameron (retained, possibly extended) and Vlad are a far superior combo to Beltran and Diaz/Nady -- but this isn't a zero-sum game, and even the Mets have some economic limits.

Getting over it, I agree, is a good goal to set for oneself, therapeutically speaking. I'd be happy not to get weekly updates on Kazmir's performance until he's nearer to free agency. But I understand the emotional resonance this has for some of us, and I'm not going to tell them they're wrong to keep picking at the wound.

by anonymous on May 22, 2006 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions

What we're trying to do

is remind the ownership just how bad they can hurt us, and warn them away from doing so in the future.

So far, it's worked. We haven't fired on Zito-for-Milledge, or something like Pelfrey-for-Odalis which would be more comparable to the trade.

by peeder on May 22, 2006 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Though it was interesting

Look, as a Mets fan there are certain deals you get over, but you are never really over them. I know it happened and I was mortified and flaberghasted as soon as I heard of the deal.

More than the fact that the trade has completely blown up and been a disaster...I'm more upset that people with suppossed baseball acumen could not see what we fans saw. It's still shocking to me...though I guess you could ultimately put this on Wilpon for ever trusting a Duqette.

by Pedrito on May 23, 2006 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions

Duquette

Isn't he the GM in Baltimore as we speak? I could be wrong, but I heard that somewhere.

Mr Koufax, don't you think Flanders is a big jerk?

by peteyfan45 @ Amazin' Avenue on May 23, 2006 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions

intelligent owner

was the key. Pete Angelos doesn't qualify in that regard.

its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on May 24, 2006 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions

his official title

is "vice president of baseball operations." Angelos doesn't like the position of general manager, presumably because it implies too much independence from his psychotic micromanagement. A match made in heaven, if you ask me.

by anonymous on May 24, 2006 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions

Orioles GM

I think he either works with (as Co-GM) or under Mike Flanagan there. Flanagan has the superior title, but who knows exactly what the relationship is. Duquette might have gotten the blame for Kazmir, but he never had full autonomy in NY (and the team never planned to give it to him either), and he sure as hell doesn't have it in Baltimore either.

by Alex Nelson on May 24, 2006 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Milledge

what's with him lately. His average is dropping like a stone and he is not hitting for power although his walks are up. He's beginning to look a bit like Jose Reyes who has not shown that he is a superior offensive player. Reyes makes up for it by being a great defensive player. I would trade Milledge for Willis.

It's only a game

by elifriedman on May 22, 2006 10:15 PM EDT reply actions

But unlike Reyes

Milledge's combination of walks and speed are potent...that means he can turn many plate appearances into doubles without touching the ball. OBP counts for plenty. He is being pitched around in that anemic lineup. With Beltran hitting behind him, he'll actually get some fastballs to drive.

by peeder on May 22, 2006 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions

while

trading Milledge for Willis might be a good move. I wouldn't base it on a couple of months at AAA. A little patience might be in order.

its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on May 23, 2006 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions

I really think to save Willis's career

he needs to be gotten out of Florida, where there is no point to his making any effort at all, before he gets distracted with off-field garbage.

And I say that as a baseball fan...I don't care if he goes to the Mets or anywhere else, he should go to a contender where he will have to concentrate and be rewarded for that concentration.

by peeder on May 23, 2006 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions

I agree

that talents like Willis and Miguel Cabrera, who I worry more about based on what I hear about their personalities, could use getting out of that ridclous situtation in Fla. How Bud and the other owners allow a team to have $15 million payroll in the age if revenue sharing is beyond me. I can't blame George next time he bitches about the money he has to pay into the system, when I watch teams like Florida and the Royals. What is happening in south Florida, which is not all that small a market, is a disgrace. With all that said they do need to be grownups about it though and play hard, they have contracts, and should bring honor to themselves game while leaving didhonoring game to the ownership.

its a ground ball...trickling... its a fair ball, its by Buckner, rounding third Knight, the Mets will win the ballgame, the Mets win

by DoctorK16 on May 23, 2006 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions

Kazmir Deal

My biggest problem with the Kazmir deal was in how little they got for him. While the assessment that led to him being traded, i.e., his arm was about to get injured was completely wrong, no other teams shared that view at the time and Kazmir was viewed as a top prospect and Duquette's biggest failure was in not getting someone better for him.

by OronosFemur on May 23, 2006 1:25 PM EDT reply actions

Considering

Texas was offering Soriano straight up for Kazmir, I think Duquette was a moron for taking Victor Zambrano, a guy he knew TB would not offer arbitration to anyways.

"I got my pregnant wife (the Yankee fan) with me. Hoping my kid learns to kick her everytime the Mets score." -Schifftis-

by future on May 23, 2006 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions

Now a major article in the NYT

If you haven't already read it and wept.

Much of the Mets' progress in the past two seasons can be traced to the conference call in July 2004 when they decided to deal Kazmir. Approximately 10 club employees — scouts, coaches and executives — were on the line. A couple of vocal members endorsed the trade. No one raised a strong objection.
"We had too many cooks in the kitchen," said Jim Duquette, then the Mets' general manager, now the vice president for baseball operations of the Baltimore Orioles. "In that situation, if someone disagrees, he might not speak up. The loudest voices are the ones that get heard. It does become sort of like a mob mentality."
The Mets, in many ways, have spent the past 22 months answering for that one call.

They don't finger who was in that "couple of vocal members": but Duquette and Wilpon Jr. are the obvious suspects for being given deference. They want to spread the blame with this tactic; but I'm not buying.

...the Mets direct their anger at the Devil Rays. The Mets knew at the time of the trade that Zambrano had tendinitis in his right elbow, but they understood he was being treated with a basic anti-inflammatory. When Zambrano joined the Mets in Atlanta on July 31, they learned that he had been taking more severe medication.

Morons.

by peeder on May 31, 2006 6:43 AM EDT reply actions

Grievance

If the Mets were told he was being treated with an anti-inflammatory and it was actually a different medication, they would have filed a grievance. I don't buy this line at all. Even if it was true, then the fact that they didn't attempt to gain compensation or undo the trade makes them even bigger idiots.

by OronosFemur on May 31, 2006 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions