Marlins 8, Mets 7

by Eric Simon on Sep 21, 2007 12:01 AM EDT

Suckiest suck that ever sucked: Jorge Sosa - 1+ip, 4h, 3r, 2er

Unwatchable. That's pretty much all you can say at this point. If the Mets are actually able to back their way into the playoffs I'm not totally convinced that I would want to watch them play any more games. 162 might be it for me, especially if they insist on playing like this.

So many things to kvetch about I hardly know where to start. Tom Glavine, Proven Veteran™, is handed a three run lead and can't hold it, coughing up four runs on eleven (!) hits in just five innings. Of course, why should he be any different from Brian Lawrence or John Maine, both handed leads in the Washington series only to piss them away like so many bottles of Rheingold.

Jose Reyes, again, looks completely inept at the plate, and his shortcoming are only magnified by the performances of his NL East shortstop counterparts. Hanley Ramirez would be the MVP if his team were better and Jimmy Rollins is carrying his team through the stretch run, while Reyes is eating up at-bats and spitting back outs at a rate eerily reminiscent of his 2005 incarnation. As Dan Scotto told me after the game, it's like a year and a half of growth has been thrown away. His plate discipline has almost completely deteriorated and his power is virtually non-existent. Without his speed, many of his triples would be doubles and doubles would be singles, further driving his slugging percentage down towards .400. I'm still bullish on his future but he has been the fourth best shortstop in the division this year.

Is starting Jeff Conine really preferable to Shawn Green batting against a lefty? Dontrelle Willis hasn't exactly been lights out this season and Conine has something like two hits since joining the Mets in August. You know it's a cold day in hell when I'm clamoring for Green to be in the starting lineup.

And lastly, the lack of a dominant bullpen is really exposing Willie Randolph's flaws as a tactical manager. He's from the managing school of "If it's in the toolbox I should probably use it" philosophy, sending Guillermo Mota and Jorge Sosa out there every day despite mounting evidence urging him to do otherwise. Mota actually managed to pitch a scoreless inning tonight, but Sosa was not so lucky. He was so impressive in allowing three runs to score in the ninth that it was imperative that he be trotted out there for another inning. That he retired even three batters in the ninth wasn't miracle enough, as Willie had to press his luck and try to coax another inning out of Sosa. Well, he managed zero outs in the tenth in securing a victory for the Marlins, and the Mets again find themselves within uncomfortable shouting distance of second place.

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Rheingold is my beer, the dry beer

Think of Rheingold whenever you buy beer

The butcher and the baker and the people on the street, where did they go? To meet the Mets!

by Rod Gaspar Fan Club on Sep 21, 2007 8:57 AM EDT reply actions

Great picture

What an awful rollercoaster. Their schedule's still favorable and the Phillies' isn't. So, objectively, I still have them making it. But, then again, I'm a shitty fan because I picked the Phillies (NL East) and Braves (WC) to make the play-offs at the beginning of the season. Yeah, I know, I know, no faith, etc. There's no need to go into the reason for these picks.

But, on a positive note, the play-offs are a different world (see: Cardinals 2006) and limping in or cruising in, the Mets will still be in. Maybe just limping in will give them the motivation to not take anything for granted like they might have done last year.

I know that a lot's expected of them (and it should be). But, in reading a number of different Mets sites, I'm dismayed at the rage and lack of confidence directed toward the players. They're gripping, to be sure and they don't need to be booed when they return to NYC. This meltdown is the result of fatigue, randomness, bad luck, bad managing, and a poorly constructed pitching staff (read: Minaya)(readx2: Brian Lawrence...in a pennant race?...Minaya again).

by kmdarcy @ Amazin' Avenue on Sep 21, 2007 9:17 AM EDT reply actions

Poorly constucted bullpen

Not pitching staff, as the starters have generally been fine this year. Bullpens are a crapshoot, which is why you don't sign guys like Scott Schoeneweis to 3-year deals (I didn't like that move when it was made, and I hate it even more now. It's Minaya's worst move as GM by far.)

There was a young man named Philip Gregory Humber (who is allegedly a top prospect of this team) rotting in the bullpen while Sosa blew the game. That was the last straw for me as far as Randolph goes. He's got a team that's playing scared, and he's going to ride his Proven Veterans off a cliff. Fire Willie Randolph!

Every time Mota pitches, a kitten dies. Please think of the kittens!

by Greenpoint Ian on Sep 21, 2007 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Schoeneweis

I still fail to see why Omar couldn't have brought back Darren Oliver instead of Schoeneweis. Yes, he's a few years older, but he was a lifesaver for us last year when (gee, what a shock) Lima Time didn't pan out, and the Angels are paying him less than half of what we're paying Show. The same goes for Bradford, by the way, not to take away from Joe Smith's pretty quick learning curve.

But, yeah, as you say, Willie continues to not make any sense with his decisions. And, really, Sosa ISN'T even a Proven Veteran. He's 30 and has a career ERA+ of 96. AND he had just gotten shelled in the 9th inning. It really makes no sense to me sometimes.

by Josh @ Amazin' Avenue on Sep 21, 2007 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Oliver

I don't blame Minaya for not bringing back Darren Oliver, who was a very valuable pitcher in 2006. I had no faith in Oliver to pitch that well two years running. Age is only one factor, the bigger one being that he had never been nearly as good as he was in 2006. From 2000 to 2006, Jose Lima's ERA was a 6.00, the worst in the majors. Oliver's was a 5.53.

Furthermore, Oliver, the NLCS aside, had been fading badly down the stretch. From August 1st on, he had a 6.75 ERA with 7 homers allowed. Also, the Mets starters have been better in 2006, as evidenced by how few innings Aaron Sele has gotten, who is really the guy who took Oliver's role, not Schoeneweis.

by Alex Nelson on Sep 21, 2007 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Sele

He's shitty too. I'd rather have Oliver than him or Schoeneweis. (Yes, even in view of Oliver's career performance that you pointed out.)

by Josh @ Amazin' Avenue on Sep 21, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Humber?

Really? 9th inning of a critical game in late September and you want to use a kid who's thrown all of what, 3 major league innings? That's not doing the team or the kid any favors.

by madisonmetsfan on Sep 21, 2007 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions

he can't be any worse than the

incompetents that are pitching now in those spots

Keep Lastings Milledge Free

by DoctorK16 on Sep 21, 2007 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions

yes

Who gives a damn how many innings the kid has thrown? He can't be worse than Sosa, Sele, or Mota.

And just to remind you, K-Rod had all of 5 major league innings under his belt when the Angels made him a critical part of the bullpen in the 2002 postseason. Without his eye-popping performance in that postseason, the Angels might not have won the World Series that year.

Fire Willie Randolph!

by Greenpoint Ian on Sep 21, 2007 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Humber's a starter, not a reliever.

I'm no fan of Sosa and don't get me started on Mota, but it's just plain silly to think that Willie should turn to a rookie with no relief experience (other than 2-3 innings of mop-up) to close out a late September pennant race game. Think of what people would say here and elsewhere if he had and the kid got shelled.

Let's just hope Wagner's back spasms subside; having had them on occasion, I can assure you it's usually difficult to walk, let alone pitch.

by madisonmetsfan on Sep 21, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions

A Lot Of Truth To This But

the bullpen has been over worked and not performing well for a while. Willie should have tried using either Humber or Pelfrey to pitch in the 6th or 7th inning a few weeks ago. I actually had this conversation with one of my friends after the Yankees did it with Joba Chamberlain. Look what that move has done to stabilize the Yankees pen. If the move had worked, it would have put the Mets in a position to use Humber/Pelfrey in the 6th or 7th, go to Heilman in the 8th, Wagner in the 9th. If not, you wouldn't have been any worse off.

Hindsight is 20/20 but clearly the Mota/Sosa/Schoenweis thing hasn't been working for a while. I am not mad at Willie for it since he was doing the "safe" thing but I probably would have tried it.

I AM MAD at Willie for letting Sosa start the 10th inning. It was clear the guy had nothing left. You have to take your chances with either Sele or Humber after the 9th inning disaster and for that I do think Willie deserves a lot of criticism.

by millsy on Sep 21, 2007 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions

He's Joba Chamberlain waiting to happen

If he can throw five innings as a starter, he can handle one in the pen. A heater and a hammer do pretty well in the ninth inning even if they're being thrown by a teenager.

by Simons on Sep 21, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions

I Tend To Agree

unless he has horrible control which doesn't seem to be true in the 3 IPs he has so far as a big leaguer. Not to date myself, but I remember in 1985 when the Cardinals brought up Todd Worrell and had him close for them the last month. It was a major reason they won the division over the Mets. K-Rod is another good example. Sometimes you just need to take a chance and see what happens.

by millsy on Sep 21, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't think...

...that bullpen's are crapshoots. I do think that the Mets' bullpen has been a crapshoot. Minaya does not impress me much and w/o NYC money his lack of foresight would be exposed. We're riding a wave of success with two of the best young players in baseball (Wright and Reyes) and one hell of an underappreciated (my view) superstar (Beltran). And, even though I'm concerned with the age and abilities of our position players, they have (this year at least) performed well.

The starters have been okay, but Maine's out of gas, The Duke is out, and Glavine's steady. Pedro's back, but he's a 6 ip guy and needs a bullpen to come in after him.

The bullpen's melted down to be sure, but they are who they are too. By that, I mean that Minaya signed them and Willie (mis)uses them. And, the game's starting so I'm going to stop, one doesn't have to look at THAT many MLB rosters to see plenty of bullpen talent and depth...the Mets just don't have it.

Have a nice weekend, everyone.

by kmdarcy @ Amazin' Avenue on Sep 21, 2007 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions

I'm traumatized

by the image of Aaron Sele warming up in the ninth inning with the tying runs on base in a huge game in September. I just can't get it out of my head. Its something that I don't think any of us could have ever imagined.

by Shomov on Sep 21, 2007 12:20 PM EDT reply actions

There is A Part of Me

that wonders if maybe Willie should have used Sele a little more this month. I know Sele is running on fumes but he was one of the better No. 2 starters in baseball for a lot of years and he has pennant and playoff experience. I wonder sometimes if bringing him into one or two of the situations where we had Mota, Schoenweis et al collapsed might not have been better for the shear fact that they wouldn't be quite so overworked.

Just thinking out loud.

by millsy on Sep 21, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions