Amazin' Avenue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: Backing the Pack for NC State Fans!


spread the word

Mets Batter VORP By Decade

I'm having a difficult time remembering a more excruciatingly slow offseason than this one. Not only are the rumors of bottom-shelf sexiness, but they're all so embarrassingly off-base that a vast sea of internet sites are losing credibility by the hour. Not this one, though, because we set the bar so impossibly close to the ground as to stifle any potential credibility demerits.

So until something worthwhile comes along, let's kill some time on a pre-holiday Wednesday by poring over some historical Baseball Prospectus data. I ran through Mets batter VORP by decade just to see who the team leaders were during different eras of the franchise's history. A lot of these guys you could have probably guessed, but it's neat to see how everyone stacks up overall.

NAME 1960's VORP YEARS
Ron Hunt 92.3 4
Cleon Jones 69.9 6
Ken Boswell 28.0 3
Tommy Davis 27.8 1
Ron Swoboda 25.5 5
Art Shamsky 25.4 2
Bob Johnson 25.0 1
Frank Thomas 22.5 3
Bud Harrelson 22.4 5
Richie Ashburn 21.8 1

Keep in mind that these figures are aggregates for the entire decade. That 135 games played by Richie Ashburn in 1962 were enough to place him on the top ten list for the eight years the Mets existed in the sixties should tell you all you need to know about the state of their offense back then. Until recently, the Mets have always been heavy on pitching and light on hitting, but this is pretty ridiculous. Ron Hunt and Cleon Jones do alright for themselves here, but the rest is just a disaster. Bud Harrelson played three full seasons and parts of two others and he just barely cracks the list.

NAME 1970's VORP YEARS
Rusty Staub 97.2 4
Bud Harrelson 94.5 8
Lee Mazzilli 75.0 4
Wayne Garrett 71.6 7
John Milner 70.8 7
Felix Millan 68.8 5
Tommie Agee 62.0 3
Ed Kranepool 58.7 10
Steve Henderson 58.6 3
Cleon Jones 54.5 6

The seventies really weren't much better than the sixties, even with two additional years to work with. Bud Harrelson has eight years represented here; Ed Kranepool has the full ten. Le Grand Orange was only in town from 1972 thru 1975, but two of those were good years and the other two were terrific ones. Lee Mazzilli had the highest single-season VORP of the decade with his 46.8 in 1979, with a comfortable lead over the 36.4 Cleon Jones notched in 1971. Only Staub and Tommy Ageee averaged better than two wins above replacement per season. It was a less offensive era to be sure, but even within that context the Mets were pretty pathetic.

NAME 1980's VORP YEARS
Darryl Strawberry 253.9 7
Keith Hernandez 181.6 7
Howard Johnson 164.3 5
Mookie Wilson 122.3 10
Lenny Dykstra 93.4 5
Kevin McReynolds 92.2 3
Wally Backman 90.3 9
Gary Carter 82.4 5
Tim Teufel 51.2 4
Dave Magadan 43.3 4

Cocaine + glam rock = more offense! Lots of big names here, including three of the half-dozen-or-so best hitters the Mets have ever had. I've always had a soft spot for Kevin McReynolds, and I don't think he gets enough credit for his production as a Met. He didn't have much of a personality and he was on the wrong end of the trade that sent future-MVP Kevin Mitchell to the Padres, but he was a very nice hitter for a few years and one of the two batting stances I can remember emulating as a little leaguer (the other was Lenny Dykstra).

Darryl Strawberry and Howard Johnson had five of the top ten VORP seasons of the eighties, with HoJo taking the single-season crown with 74.9 during his monster 1989 campaign: 36 homeruns, 41 stolen bases, 41 doubles, 77 walks. Tim Teufel actually had the tenth-best single-season of the decade with 37.9 VORP in 1987 when he hit .308/.398/.545 in 350 plate appearances.

NAME 1990's VORP YEARS
John Olerud 153.2 3
Edgardo Alfonzo 121.0 5
Mike Piazza 120.6 2
Bobby Bonilla 111.9 5
Todd Hundley 91.4 9
Howard Johnson 90.5 4
Jeff Kent 79.8 5
Lance Johnson 71.5 2
Dave Magadan 67.9 3
Bernard Gilkey 59.2 3

Is it any wonder why John Olerud is my favorite Met of all time? His 70.4 VORP in 1998 was the best of the nineties when he hit .354/.447/.551 and somehow only finished 12th in MVP balloting. Of course, that same year Mark McGwire hit 70 homeruns and OPS-ed 1.222 and still lost the MVP to Sammy Sosa because Sosa's Cubs made the playoffs and Mac's Cardinals did not.

A lot of times I forget that Jeff Kent was with the Mets for so long. I always seem to mis-remember him playing here for a year or two before being shipped off for Carlos Baerga, but he actually stuck around for something like four full seasons. Johnson and Dave Magadan -- another one of my favorites -- make the return visit, as both also appeared on the eighties list.

NAME 2000's VORP YEARS
David Wright 275.8 5
Mike Piazza 251.5 6
Jose Reyes 210.6 6
Carlos Beltran 194.6 4
Edgardo Alfonzo 136.7 3
Carlos Delgado 88.9 3
Cliff Floyd 77.5 4
Ty Wigginton 42.2 3
Mike Cameron 37.3 2
Paul Lo Duca 36.4 2

Ahh, the aughts. If you closed your eyes and tried to guess this list, you'd probably come up with half of it very easily and a few more without a whole lot more trouble. If you guessed Ty Wigginton and Paul Lo Duca on the first shot, you're either Kreskin, Alex Nelson, or both. These numbers include 2008 results, from which we get seasons by David Wright, Jose Reyes and Carlos Beltran. Wright's decade-high and franchise-high mark of 81.1 VORP was set in 2007, though Edgardo Alfonzo's 76.9 in 2000 is just a shade behind.

You'll notice a stark contrast between the 2000's and basically all of the decades preceding it. The Mets have some of the franchise's best offensive players right now, so it should come as no surprise that four of the ten best single-season VORP marks have occurred in the past three seasons (Wright's 2007 and 2008; Jose Reyes's 2008; Carlos Beltran's 2006).

And just for kicks, here is the Mets all-time leaderboard.

NAME VORP YEARS
Mike Piazza 372.1 8
Darryl Strawberry 296.9 8
David Wright 275.8 5
Edgardo Alfonzo 257.7 8
Howard Johnson 254.8 9
Jose Reyes 210.6 6
Carlos Beltran 194.6 4
Keith Hernandez 181.6 7
John Olerud 153.2 3
Kevin McReynolds 134.4 6
Cleon Jones 124.4 12
Mookie Wilson 122.3 10
Rusty Staub 120.3 9
Lee Mazzilli 117.5 10
Bud Harrelson 116.9 13
Bobby Bonilla 111.9 5
Dave Magadan 111.2 7
Lenny Dykstra 93.4 5
Ron Hunt 92.3 4
Todd Hundley 91.4 9

To date, Mike Piazza leads all Mets hitters in career VORP by quite a bit, his 372.1 out-pacing Strawberry's 296.9 to the tune of more than seven wins. Wright is just a couple of decent seasons behind Piazza, though, so there could be a changing of the guard pretty soon. McReynolds at #10 is surprising, while Reyes and Beltran are both climbing this list quickly and furiously.

0 recs | Comment 25 comments | Share on Facebook Digg!

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Ha!

Bob Johnson seventh (!!) on the 1960s list with 230 at-bats. Granted, wonderful ones, but still.

by Blackfish on Nov 26, 2008 9:08 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Awesome

Doesn’t that just sound like a name you’d make up?

Boss: Who screwed up these TPS reports?!?
You: Uhh, it must’ve been .. umm.. Bob .. errr… Johnson.
Boss: Blagnabbitt!!

by Eric Simon on Nov 26, 2008 9:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am also

in the John Olerud #1 Fan club, though David Wright is making a run.

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Nov 26, 2008 10:37 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I loved Olerud

but the Fonz was and always will be my favorite.

by cjmulrain on Nov 26, 2008 1:04 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Fonzie

I still have my Alfonzo jersey. Haven’t worn it in a long time, though. Nice job.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 26, 2008 7:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no gregg jeffries

thats disappointing.

big ups to McReynolds tho. anyone else have the ‘speak softly and carry a big stick’ poster with McReynolds holding a giant piece of lumber instead of a regular bat and looking all bad ass?

by kendynamo on Nov 26, 2008 11:48 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In 10years, heck in 5 maybe

David Wright will be the best Met ever

by viktor06 on Nov 26, 2008 1:00 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If he has another 2007 type season

he’ll be the best Met ever in 2 years.

by cjmulrain on Nov 26, 2008 1:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh, wait

unless you were referring to Seaver, in which case you’re right, it’ll probably take another 10 years. I was only thinking offensive players.

Eric, any chance you could do this with the pitchers? Would be interesting to see how they stack up (and how far ahead of everyone else Seaver is).

by cjmulrain on Nov 26, 2008 1:10 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Will do

I may use SNLVAR instead since VORP is a little iffy for pitchers.

by Eric Simon on Nov 26, 2008 1:49 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anyone want to try to guess

the Mets all time top 10 in SNLVAR, off the top of my head:
The Franchise
The Doc
The Koos
The Cone
Matlack
Leiter
Darling
Sid
Ojeda
Glavine?

by Sokojoe on Nov 26, 2008 2:11 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mine's close

Same top 4, then Leiter, Matlack, Darling, Sid, Reed, Trachsel would be my guess.

by yellomellojello on Nov 26, 2008 5:06 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

John Franco

Should definitely be there imo…

by viktor06 on Nov 26, 2008 5:22 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My guess

Seaver
Gooden
Koosman
Cone
Matlack
Darling
Leiter
Reed
Franco
Ojeda

by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 26, 2008 7:59 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

SNLVAR

Is only for starting pitchers, which leaves Franco out, unfortunately.

by Eric Simon on Nov 26, 2008 10:00 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My perception

is that Sid Fernandez was a better pitcher than Darling, but Sid is consistently left off of most such lists while people almost always include Darling. On the other hand, I am not really sure. Both had control problems. Sid had better strike out rates. Darling logged a lot more innings. It may be a wash. I am too tired to look at the numbers closely.

"Since we became accelerated readers, we never leave the house." - Los Campesinos

by Shomov on Nov 26, 2008 10:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sid pitched

the first game I ever went to, so I’ve always had a soft spot for him. I’m inclined to agree with you. And Darling didn’t log that many more innings: 1620 – 1584, although he averaged more innings per season. But Fernandez had a much better K rate than Darling, a better ERA, and a much better WHIP as well. In fact, he’s actually 3rd in WHIP, behind Seaver (obv.) and Saberhagen, who probably didn’t pitch long enough in NY to make the list, but whose career with the Mets I think is underrated.

by cjmulrain on Nov 27, 2008 2:49 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Saberhagen's

1994 season was ridiculous : 143 Ks, 13 BBS, 152 ERA+

"Since we became accelerated readers, we never leave the house." - Los Campesinos

by Shomov on Nov 28, 2008 8:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yup

my last sentence should probably read "whose career with the Mets is severely underrated. He was hurt a lot and didn’t pitch nearly enough innings, but he was very good for us when he did pitch. And he rocked that blue glove.

In fact, I think his whole career is underrated. 2 time Cy Young winner, his 1989 season was disgusting good (2.16 ERA, 0.961 ERA, 262 IP, 43 BB, 193 K, 23-6 record), and a career 3.64 K/BB ratio. He’s not a hall-of-famer, but if he had been healthy his whole career he could have been at least in the conversation (his rate stats are better than Mussina, but he pitched 1,000 less innings over almost the same amount of seasons.)

by cjmulrain on Nov 29, 2008 1:02 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Agreed

Sid would fly up the list if he could’ve stayed healthy, great pitcher.

by Sokojoe on Nov 30, 2008 12:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

David Magadan

I wonder if his career would have turned out a lot differently if he played 20 years later (ie now). He had a career .390 OBP, but never had 600 plate appearances (and in most seasons he was far below that). People bitched that lacked both speed and power. Davy Johnson called him a one tool player.

On the other hand, he was sorta blocked out of first and third base in NY.

"Since we became accelerated readers, we never leave the house." - Los Campesinos

by Shomov on Nov 26, 2008 10:55 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Magadan

I guess the problem he ran into was, he had no window of opportunity to be anything but a 1B, with HoJo replacing Knight at 3B and pretty clearly a better hitter. Magadan managed to see regular playing time at 1B from 1989 to 1991 (and then some at 3B in 1992) but even with a .390 OBP, even in that era before power hitting exploded, it’s tough to make it as a 1B who doesn’t hit for much power.

On the other hand, Mark Grace had a pretty nice career as a 1B with a good OBP and not much power; those are just the breaks for you, I guess.

by JoshNY on Nov 27, 2008 11:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Great stumble through Mets VORP history.

Do you have all years of VORP data in a spreadsheet or do BPro members have advanced functionality of the stats reports? This would be a great article for bloggers of all teams to tackle.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Nov 30, 2008 8:44 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Start posting about the Mets »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Aaavatar_small
When Fernando Met Wilmer
Hobodan_small
Looking for Local Recommendations
Me_at_att_park_small
A Lighthearted Interview with Brooklyn Cyclone Joey August

Recent FanPosts

Aaavatar_small
Mets Community Prospect List: #9
Small
How would you grade the Mets?
Aaavatar_small
Mets Community Prospect List: #8
Aaavatar_small
Mets Community Prospect List: #7
Aaavatar_small
Mets Community Prospect List: #6 RUNOFF!
Aaavatar_small
Mets Community Prospect List: #6
Images-1_small
Promotion Time?
Aaavatar_small
Mets Community Prospect List: #5
Sheff_doc_small
Community Prospect Comps #1
Aaavatar_small
Mets Community Prospect List: #4

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

I was inspired by Eric's comment that Olerud had the best 3-year run as a Met outside Carlos Beltran to look at a few different Mets, and when I noticed that two of my all-time favorite players (Alfonzo and Strawberry) were kinda screwed by having (relatively)bad seasons in between some really good seasons, I decided to see which Mets had the best 3 seasons, period (non-consecutively). Beltran still comes out on top, but my all-time favorite player Alfonzo comes in 2nd place, and him and Straw are the only two to have three 6.0+ WAR seasons. Also interesting that Hundley comes out ahead of Gary Carter, Cleon Jones almost finishes ahead of Mike Piazza, and Joe McEwing doesn't make the list.

Recent FanShots

Thole, Mejia Updates from Oliveras
Matt and Ted's Excellent Adventure
Project Prospect Updated Top 50
Fangraphs Profiles Jenrry Mejia
Edes: Mets Might Be On A Road To Nowhere
Josh Thole Drop of Sunshine
Carson Dominates Third Straight Start
David Wright vs John Franco?
The Mets Have No Future
OT: NHL Free Agency Begins

Post_icon New FanShot All FanShots Carrot-mini

Sponsors


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Sheff_doc_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small JamesK

THE NEWS GURU

Wrightfront_small Joe Budd

Official Partner of Yahoo! Sports