What Signing Francisco Rodriguez Means For The Mets

Year	K/9	FIP	FBvel	Miss%
2005	12.16	3.09	93.3	30.0%
2006	12.08	2.72	94.8	31.8%
2007	12.03	2.70	93.6	33.9%
2008	10.14	3.22	91.9	30.7%

prefer over Wood

I prefer him over Wood simply b/c he’s younger and I wouldn’t want to spend the whole season worrying about Wood’s arm collapsing with a pop audible from the bleachers. Hopefully Wood will stay healthy and keep on being an iceman, but I have enough stuff to worry about. I also like the short contract.

by mmxii on Dec 10, 2008 9:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

great

I read the article Catsmeat linked to on the side and I’m worried again.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3757993&name=law_keith

by mmxii on Dec 10, 2008 9:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you wouldn't also worry about Frankie's arm collapsing?

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

esp. after reading that he was limited to one inning at a time due to “worries.”

But what current player is more associated with injury than Wood? Junior Griffey and Rocco Baldelli are about the only ones.

He’d have the Sword of Damocles hanging over his head every time he gripped the ball or smelled the infield grass. I’d similarly love to have Liriano on the squad, but I wouldn’t be comfortable relying on him making it through the whole year.

by mmxii on Dec 10, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

BUT WAIT!

What music will Frank Rod be running out of the bullpen to?!?!?! WHAT IF HIS SELECTION OFFENDS YANKEE FANS???

by kendynamo on Dec 10, 2008 10:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

This is a valid concern

After the Billy Wagner debacle, all future Mets closers have to have their entrance music approved personally by Hankenstein.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

polka

or Sublime (the SoCa influence)

by mmxii on Dec 10, 2008 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Sandungueoso" by Tego Calderon

Thank you Google.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm glad we signed frankie

especially at 3 years/$37 million, but i don’t think this really improves the team from last year. all omar has done is replace billy wagner, and i don’t remember the mets being all that dominant when wagner was healthy.

we need more arms in that bullpen…i hope omar doesn’t think this solves the bullpen problem.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2008 10:43 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I hope after the closer issue that Omar and Co. take a look at a significant setup guy. How many of our guys are capable of eating up a lot of innings consistently?

On avg for 2008:
Santana (6 innings)
Pelfrey (6 & a third innings)
Maine (5 & two thirds innings)
O. Perez (5 & two thirds innings) – Will he even be here?

So yes. The closer role is complete. Now it’s time to look at an SP and a setup man. After that a solid bat would just be gravy. …In my opinion.

" CITI...It's only money. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 10, 2008 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pelfrey

averaged more IP than Santana?

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's wrong

Santana averaged 6.89 IP last year. Pelfrey was at 6.27.

"When the little children start to speak they once said 'Mama' and 'Papa', but with the fans we got they say the first thing, 'Metsie, Metsie, Metsie'." - Casey Stengel

by Prince on Dec 10, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

ok

that’s what I thought.

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

got santana wrong buy a bit, but the Pelfrey stat is correct

Santana (6.8) = 6 & 2/3 roughly
Pelfrey (6.25) = 6 & 1/3 roughly

So yes. Santana pitched a tad bit more on average.

" CITI...It's only money. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 10, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Its only a beginning.

Great start from Omar! I think he got the right man for the job. But we still desperately need a set up guy. Beimel, Street, Putz… someone who ill nail down inning #8 for us the same way Madson does for the Phillies.

Then we need another reasonable starter. I think we are out of the running for Lowe so do we re-sign Ollie? I say let him go and take the draft picks. Take Garland on a favorable 2 or 3 year deal to be our #4. The guy is good for 6 innings every time out and keeps his team in games.

And we still need a LF. The market for these guys seems to be slow right now so its makes sense to make a bid on a Dunn or Abreu.

by scott from peekskill on Dec 10, 2008 11:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Garland is not a #4

I’m only OK with signing Garland if its for like 2-3 years and $8-9 million a year. He will probably command more than that from some moron GM though.

Also, a Garland signing better be coupled with a Sheets/Lowe/Wolf signing as well.

by JamesK on Dec 10, 2008 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Our moron GM, perhaps?

Ah . . . I’m being unfair. I shouldn’t refer to Omar as “our moron GM” until after he signs Raul Ibanez.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 11:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

Please Omar, do not sign Ibanez. I could handle Juan Rivera, just not Ibanez.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i think we'd all prefer this Raul

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

GOOD GOD ITS GENERAL BISON

by JamesK on Dec 10, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well done on the gif

" CITI...It's only money. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 10, 2008 2:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i learned from the best

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

'Dankezehr!' just be careful

especially after my gif from last night.

" CITI...It's only money. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 10, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hey we just post em as the baseball gods direct us

can’t help what size they turn out or who’s stomachs we turn

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

FO SHO!

" CITI...It's only money. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 10, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jon Garland blows

I want no part of him

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 11:22 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Garland

He isn’t sexy, and his peripherals are not awe-inspiring, but he certainly doesn’t blow. 2008 was a down year for him, admittedly, but he eats innings, doesn’t walk many and has historically been better than average. That may not be C.C. Sabathia or Derek Lowe, but it has plenty of value. The Mets could take a chance on a Ben Sheets to stay healthy and be a #2 starter, and sign a Garland to round out the rotation, ease the burden on the bullpen, and be a workhorse type guy who keeps his team in the game most of the time. Again, not sexy, but plenty useful.

by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hyperbole [hie-per-bol-ee]
Noun
a deliberate exaggeration of speech or writing used for effect, such as he embraced her a thousand times [Greek huper over + ballein to throw]

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Eh

Your comment isn’t really hyperbole. Perhaps you were being sarcastic, but it’s certainly not obviously so. It’s not outside the realm of possibility that Jon Garland “blows” or that you “want no part of him”. He might and you might.

by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

semantics aside

i think we can all agree that garland in fact both blows and does not blow.

by kendynamo on Dec 10, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that was profound, man

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I didn't think this was physically possible, but Jon Garland both sucks AND blows.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not unlike Judy Garland I'm told

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

“If I only had some brains…” – The Tin Man

"When the little children start to speak they once said 'Mama' and 'Papa', but with the fans we got they say the first thing, 'Metsie, Metsie, Metsie'." - Casey Stengel

by Prince on Dec 10, 2008 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's Mega-Maid,sir. She's gone from suck to blow!

We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!

by kingcritical on Dec 10, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well played, sir

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sheets

Yes please! I hope Omar is just lying low regarding Ben. Yes, we’d to have another arm along with Niese ready to go, but I think Sheets on a 2/25-ish deal might be the way to go. Though I don’t think signing Garland and Sheets is really an option.

I really don’t want Garland, so hopefully now that the Yanks have landed CC, that’ll leave us in the running for somebody on the next tier.

by whynot on Dec 10, 2008 11:46 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I like that idea!

As long as Sheets doesnt want $15m per year, why not? Just dont let him pitch 9 innings every time he takes the ball.

Still, he is going to cost quite a lot to sign. $13-15m per???

by scott from peekskill on Dec 10, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My approach

to Sheets would be:
1st year: $14m guaranteed
2nd year: $15m vesting option at 180 IP in 1st year
3rd year: $16m vesting option at 180 IP in 2nd year

Buyer’s market with Sheets for years, Seller’s market for $ – this might be the compromise.

by deadspy3 on Dec 10, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i think sheets on a two-year contract is a no brainer

he made 31 starts last year and 24 starts the year before. he’s a risk, but i think the potential reward is worth it on a short term deal. but i haven’t heard any rumors connecting the mets and sheets, so i’m not going to get my hopes up.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2008 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Meant to add

If Cubs get Peavy would Harden be available?

by scott from peekskill on Dec 10, 2008 11:49 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

meh

I have to imagine that if they added Peavy, it’d be someone at the back end of their rotation who’d be made available (Lilly or Marquis) rather than someone from the front end

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Now that the Yankees have signed Sabathia does that mean they’ll trade Wang or Joba?

by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the only good thing about the Yankees purported spending spree

is that they keep good pitching away from the phils and atlanta.
that’s what i’m telling myself at least.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

just think of all the fun we'd have

if we ended up with both wang and wood on our team.

by kendynamo on Dec 10, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Juan Cruz

I have liked this guy since he was with Atlanta. I think he would be a great guy to bring in as an 8th inning guy who would also provide some KRod insurance. This bullpen needs guys who can miss bats. Get Heilman, Duaner, Schoenweiss and Ayala out of here.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 12:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Reading reports that Mets want to decrease payroll from 2008

That is some b.s. They’d be the first pro sports team ever NOT to increase payroll the year a new stadium opens. Unreal.

by JamesK on Dec 10, 2008 12:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

It is an odd tendency

and I would be more than happy to blame the economy but for the team’s failure to, you know, drop ticket prices in conjunction with the downtick in payroll.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly - I think they're

gonna use the economy as an excuse to do this. Which I would accept if, as you noted, they dropped ticket prices, dropped the price of a hot dog and beer, failed to sell out their luxury suites, etc.

What slap in the face to the fans if it’s true.

by JamesK on Dec 10, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

if they sign Ibanez

they need to use the economy as an excuse to reduce the playable area dimensions in left field.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Aside from the physical exam, we have our closer. What's next?

I’m giddy that we’ve got “The” Rod. Honestly any one of the three (Rodriguesz / Wood / Fuentes) are better than a broken Wagner and an unreliable Heilman who is about as volatile as the current stock market. Does anyone know what will be done with Heilman and Schoeneweis?

" CITI...It's only money. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 10, 2008 12:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

we're gonna get Heilman in a dunk tank just for you, Lou

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope the tank is filled with bone disolving acid

I don’t want anything remaining that could possibly infect the other players. :-)

" CITI...It's only money. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 10, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you don't mean "backbone" disolving acid, i'm sure

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"chuckle"

" CITI...It's only money. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 10, 2008 2:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My biggest fear

is Omar thinking that filling the closer role was really the only major thing this team needed and us ended up with basically the same offense, and a rotation that’s actually lesser.

There’s no excuse for them to just add a pitcher like Garland to the rotation, and personally I’d much much rather have Wolf than Garland. At the very least if they refuse to pay for Lowe they should take flyers on guys like Sheets and Penny.

Also the idea of them wanting to decrease the payroll is to ridiculous for me to fathom. We already spend less than some of our big market counterparts relative to how much we bring in.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 12:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

If we’re going to spend on “The” Rod, we might as well keep spending to solidify our ball club. Let’s not half-a$$ it. It’s not the time to just “feel good” about getting a closer. We definitely need more to shore up the club.

" CITI...It's only money. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 10, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have to disagree

One of the biggest problems for this team the last two years is “taking flyers” on unreliable players. We took flyers on Alou, Pedro, and Duque and we all crossed out fingers really tight on Duaner.

Garland may not be a sexy name, but I would rather him than Wolf (who was horrible on the road/down the stretch last year) and always seems to be hurt. The ideal guy here would be Lowe, but Garland would be an ok consolation prize.

We already have Maine coming off surgery and Pelfrey is coming off a season where he pitched a personal high in innings. We need someone reliable at the back end.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My thinking is at least with Sheets and Wolf there's some upside.

A rotation of Johan, Maine, Pelfrey, Garland, and ???(Jon Niese?), would be worse than what we had last year I think. Especially since I fear Pelfrey is going to come down to earth when you factor in things like, him still really only having to major league pitches, the increase in innings, and the difference in his ERA and FIP last year.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

Saying this is a “worse” rotation than we had last year isn’t necessarily an insult. Our rotation, although they didn’t pitch late enough into games, was very good. Assuming Maine’s injury was the reason for his crappy performance, I think the top 3 are very good. And I really don’t understand putting Wolf in the same class as Sheets. Penny, sure, but not Wolf.

Here’s my issue: you sign Sheets, he gets injured. Now your rotation is: Johan, Maine, Pelfrey, Niese, Parnell. Yeah, not too hot.

[I was just about to type how the only way signing Sheets works is if they bring in Garland with him, but Catsmeat’s post below me just flashed up… great minds ;)]

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Would it be much worse

Just for arguement sake, say Santana, Maine (probably be better,) Pelfrey (probably be a tick worse,) produce at the same level as they did the year before. Our next two starters were Perez (4.68 FIP) and Pedro ( 5.18 FIP) who weren’t that great. I think Garland and Neise could combine for that, not agreeing with the move just saying I think stating it would be worse overvalues last year’s rotation.

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

You’re probably right then, it won’t be much worse, if at all. But it’s still not a rotation I’m entirely confident in, especially if there’s no change in the offense and only a few small changes in the bullpen, at this point I’m basically expecting Omar to sign a guy like Cordero and maybe try to trade for Street and hope Sanchez and Heilman both bounce back.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree with the disagree

I don’t see Sheets as the one additional starter the Mets should pick up this off-season, but I wouldn’t mind splashing out a two-year, incentive-laden deal on a guy with his stuff so long as the team also picked up a Garland/Wolf/whoever. There is good reason to be concerned, but Sheets is so good when he’s healthy that it’s worth a shot as part of a bigger overall plan.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

About the payroll

I used to spend hours arguing with commentors on metsblog defending the Wilpons alleged cheapness and talking about how they just didn’t want us to end up like the Yankees loaded down with terrible contracts and whatnot. But now the more I hear about our off-season plans, zero interest in Tex or any of the bigger name pitchers, along with the little amount of money we spent in the draft and IFA this year, which I assume had something to do with the huge jump in payroll that came with adding Santana, I’m starting to think maybe they were right, for the first time ever.

Which worries me because I’ve always felt a little bit better about our gm not being the most progressive crayon in the box because I figured if we throw enough money at some problems you can fix them anyway.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 1:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

And Awesome

Metsblog is now reporting we have shown interest in trading for Juan Pierre? Who as far as I know is like the poor man’s Endy Chavez.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 1:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I saw that

Pierre, Eckstein, Ibanez, Punto, Michael Young… bring em all in I say!!!

by JamesK on Dec 10, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh gawd

i just thrurped

by kendynamo on Dec 10, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Juan Pierre?

I think I am going to throw up.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Really? wow...

Who's world is it? It's yours.

by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Umm, is Adam Dunn not available?

Why are we settling for guys like these? As Gina pointed out, there isn’t necessarily anything wrong with having some good, old-fashioned Yankee greed.

"When the little children start to speak they once said 'Mama' and 'Papa', but with the fans we got they say the first thing, 'Metsie, Metsie, Metsie'." - Casey Stengel

by Prince on Dec 10, 2008 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Screw you, Omar

Now I have to openly root for you to sign Raul Ibanez just so you won’t do something even more foolish like trade for Juan Pierre.

by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you just got to the heart of his master plan

And, boy, that is one evil god-damned plan.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Next up in the rumor mill:

Jeromy Burnitz.

"When the little children start to speak they once said 'Mama' and 'Papa', but with the fans we got they say the first thing, 'Metsie, Metsie, Metsie'." - Casey Stengel

by Prince on Dec 10, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

duck!

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well

what if it’s Castillo straight up for Pierre? We don’t lose a draft pick, and I think I’d prefer Murphy at second and Pierre in the outfield than Castillo at second and Ibanez in the outfield and another lost pick

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

Interesting thought.

"When the little children start to speak they once said 'Mama' and 'Papa', but with the fans we got they say the first thing, 'Metsie, Metsie, Metsie'." - Casey Stengel

by Prince on Dec 10, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I guess it's a lesser of the two evils.

But it annoys me that this might be the best situation we can hope for.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Eh

Pierre is owed $10 million in ’09 and ’10, and $8.5 million in ’11. I think the Dodgers would have to pay a whole lot of that for it to be worthwhile.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No

That’s a terrible trade. Castillo still has some value, even if he’s overpaid. Pierre has no value, and is vastly more overpaid than Castillo.

by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Although

I imagine Murphy at second has nothing to do with their plan. I think it would be more likely something like Pierre in lf, and then signing Hudson for 2nd.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't compare Endy to Juan Pierre

That’s gross.

by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i want to add a needed element of simplemindedness to this conversation

… what is it with the last names of the available agents of freedom and trade bait this year?

Dunn
Sheets
Penny
Wolf
Street
Wood

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 1:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

all are tailor made for NY Post and Daily News headlines

by JamesK on Dec 10, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

try using "Pierre" or "Eckstein" in a clever headline

by JamesK on Dec 10, 2008 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you've cracked the mystery of the mets off-season plans

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

bloggers have taken over

MLB now tailoring their operations for the ease and comfort of electronic diarists

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Pierre and Eckstein Join Mets and Suck Outloud"

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We're not getting any of those players?

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no i think out of the bunch they will definitely sign the

irish hammer

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Saw this quote on Metsblog:

"I think we’re going to have to continue (to improve the bullpen)," Mets GM Omar Minaya said yesterday, according to Newsday.

"I don’t feel we should just tell ourselves the only thing we need is one guy."

It goes on to say they’re still working on trading for Street. Not that I think it’ll happen, but imagine if they could trade for Street and convince Trevor Hoffman to come on board as another set-up man? I think we’d immediately go from awful bullpen to one of the best bullpens in baseball. And you never know, at this point in his career Hoffman might be more concerned with getting a ring than being a closer – maybe he’ll pull a Ray Allen.

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2008 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

That sort of makes me feel better

Until tomorrow, when I see “METS TALKS WITH IBANEZ HEAT UP: MINAYA FOLLOWS IBANEZ ON A CROSS-COUNTRY JOURNEY OF SELF-EXPLORATION TO TRY AND CONVINCE HIM TO BRING HIS 25-YEAR-OLD MUSCLES AND IMPRESSIVE WORK ETHIC TO NEW YORK.”

Seriously, though, it’s like flashes of self-awareness followed by rumors of Juan Pierre trades and Raul Ibanez signings. Maybe Omar is actually Man-E-Faces. Can anyone disprove this for me?

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i wish i was hip/young/clued in enough to know who manefaces is

but Ibanez is a great person!

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Man-E-Faces

was a He-Man villain. He had three different faces.

And no, Omar’s not him. He’s Janus, the two-faced god.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Silly me.

I figured two faces wasn’t enough. I was banking on good Omar, bad Omar and WTF Omar.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

by kendynamo on Dec 10, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Any one care to clue me in about LF?

Has Omar made any public statements about the Dunn/ lack of draft picks possibilities, or just the stuff about how swell Raul Ibanez is?

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 3:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't recall Omar mentioning Dunn/draft picks/etc. at all

But someone please correct me if I’m wrong.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

so i guess Dunn might not even be on Omar's "radar"?

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 3:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Unless that's his plan

Don’t mention Dunn, make it look like he wants Ibanez, then swoop in and sign Dunn…i can hope.

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

murphy and tatis

i think Manuel said he was comfortable going with murphy and tatis in LF next year…but of course he would say that, so i don’t really think it means too much.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2008 4:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hopefully it means something if Ibanez is the only other option they're considering

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Starting Pitching

Why not just re-sign Ollie and then go out and grab either Garland or Paul Byrd?

I wouldn’t mind seeing a rotation of: Johan, Maine, Ollie, Pelfrey, and Garland/ Byrd. Then, go out and give Juan Cruz a contract to pitch the 8th, and work on some minor deals to bring in some other bullpen help.

My reason for keeping Ollie around is he is still young, he’s LH, and he has really good stuff. Yes, he’s wild, but when he is on, he is lights out. Plus, he’s been relatively healthy his entire career and has shown a propensity to step up in big games. Lastly, there is some precedent for lefties “getting it” a bit later on in their careers. Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 4:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be opposed

to bringing back Ollie, although the thought of re-gaining a first round pick if he signs with someone else is tempting. I don’t know, I think it all just depends on how the market breaks now that CC is off the table

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oliver Perez

2006 – 5.61 FIP
2007 – 4.35 FIP
2008 – 4.68 FIP

I’d rather have the draft pick and avoid whatever contract him and Boras want.

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

It makes more sense to me to overpay for someone like Lowe, who will make a major difference in the rotation I think, than overpay for Ollie and lose out on two picks.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Who do we lose a pick to when we sign Oliver Perez?

Scott Boras?

by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We don't lose a pick

But we don’t get a supplemental and possibly a 1st rounder, hopefully a 1st rounder. If we let Ollie walk and sign more type a’s we’ll at worst still have a supplemental pick plus another pick at some point in the draft depending on who he signs with and who else they signed.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oh, right

by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get this obsession with draft picks in baseball

Isn’t the baseball draft the biggest crapshoot in sports? I could understand not wanting to give up a draft pick for Paul Byrd (he’s a type B, somehow, and now I don’t think he should be signed) but I do think the fans on the net get a bit too caught up in these draft picks.

And there is no way Ollie gets the contract that he is asking for.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Obsession with draft picks

It is a crap shoot but if you don’t even try how are you going to ever build any time of farm system?

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You say that

Because you’ve never seen Brad Holt pitch.

P.S. Hampton for Wright

by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I am very much aware of how we got Wright

But you’re giving me one isolated example. Plus, the Mets aren’t going to be big players until they start paying over slot. Also, when you pick college relievers in the first round every year, you’re wasting your picks. Finally, you don’t need to pick at the top of the draft to build a farm system:

http://www.baseballhandyman.com/2008/10/lesson-in-drafting-tampa-bay-rays-draft.html

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We don't pick college relievers i the first round

We pick them in every round after the first round. The first round seems to be the only hope we, the fans, have of them not taking college relievers.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention

The fact our front office fails at the draft doesn’t mean we as fans should say the draft doesn’t matter. It means we should be demanding our font office changes their philosophy about the draft.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i have no probs with focus on drafting

it pays off. i dream of draft picks. but this discussion does remind me that what sense is there in shrewdly collecting draft picks and even drafting good cheap controllable players if you’re then going to turn around and blow money out your ass by signing Castillos, Alou’s, El Duques, Ibanezes etc. of the world?

Draft picks, for the short term, wouldn’t irritate me any where near as much as Oliver does. He can get his money somewhere else. That’s why I’ve said good by to Ollie by Golly.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Draft picks are worthless to this team.

We have a core of players teams would kill for: Wright, Reyes, Beltran, and Johan. Now we have a closer who is also under 30. Why the heck do we care about draft picks right now? We need to strike while the iron is hot and go out there and get players to support this core.

Like I said above, you can rebuild the farm system in other ways: drafting over slot, signing IFAs, minor league free agents, etc.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would agree SQUAD

If they were talking about spending those picks on guys like Lowe, or Burnett, or Sheets or Tex, they could sign ten type A players if they were going to spend them on players that were worth it. But not when we’re talking about Ibanez and Perez.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 6:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Again.

You can’t lose draft picks you never had, so I really don’t understand how signing Ollie results in the Mets “losing” a pick. It’s like saying we “lost” Sabathia… we never had him!

And why are you lumping Perez into the same category of player as Ibanez? I think a pitcher like Ollie, who threw almost 200 innings and had 180 K’s last season is worth a whole lot more than a dime a dozen corner OF. If there were so many Ollie P’s floating around, he wouldn’t have such a high asking price.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Technically

You can say that as soon as Perez was designated a type A, offered arbitration and chose not to accept we had a supplemental pick. So we would be losing it.

Also I think a pitcher who walks 100 batters is close to a dime a dozen.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Name 5 free agent pitchers better than Ollie

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

CC Sabathia. Ben Sheets. Derek Lowe. Ryan Dempster. AJ Burnett.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha you beat me by a second

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Disagree on Dempster

This was Dempster’s first season as a starter in some time. I doubt he has another season like last year.

For what it’s worth, Keith Law only lists Sabathia (obviously), Burnett, and Lowe ahead of Olliie.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Better is a bit subjective

Since there are so many variables to consider but on a simple better pitcher basis I’ll go with:

CC
Lowe
Burnett
Smoltz
Sheets
Johnson

In regards to draft picks, SF GM Sabean thought first round draft picks were overvalued and would actually try to get rid of them in the early 2000s, you see where that got them.

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 6:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hell, I forgot about

Randy Johnson.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don't be obtuse.

You wouldn’t sign Smoltz or Johnson over Perez, that would be ridiculous.

And don’t lump me in with Sabean. I’m not saying draft picks are bad or even overrated. I’m just not going to let losing draft picks get in the way of signing quality MLB ballplayers.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 6:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would probably sign Johnson over Perez

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wow.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

On a one-year deal?

I agree with that.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 7:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It's better to let a player go a year early than a year too late.

I wish Omar would repeat this to himself a few million times this offseason.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 7:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

why?

that’s a catchy saying but I don’t see any reason to believe it’s true.

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 10:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would, too

They’re much more reliable than Ollie. And way cheaper, too.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would too

And I’m probably the only guy besides Oliver Perez who owns an Oliver Perez Mets Jersey.

by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 9:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

what did you just call me dufrense?

obtuse… was it deliberate?

by kendynamo on Dec 10, 2008 10:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can get behind this one

I’m a big draft guy and I mostly agree with this. Now, if it were myself as GM, I’d take the pick and run, but from the Mets perspective, it may not make sense. In the supplemental first round, as a big market team, we should be drafting guys over slot (taking guys with huge wanted bonuses later because smaller market teams don’t want to commit that kind of money to a guy.)

If the Mets are just going to pick a reliever in that supplemental spot, it probably isn’t worth it.

Who's world is it? It's yours.

by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 5:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The point is this:

you don’t need 1st round picks to build a good farm system. Sure, they help, but it’s not the only way to do it. A team with the Mets’s resources should not be thinking about the draft picks they may lose when signing a marquee free agent.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 5:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Probably not

or at least not this year, when we need to go all out.

by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are Perez and Ibanez marquee free agents?

Signing a guy like Lowe and losing a draft pick makes sense. Forgoing Lowe and overpaying for Perez doesn’t, at least not to me.

And basically the same with Ibanez, except there are actually 2-3 better options that won’t cost draft picks.

And unfortunately our team doesn’t use it’s resources properly in the draft, if we did it would be a whole other story. Although I still wouldn’t want to bring Perez back for more than like 52/4 at the very most.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Although if the cost, in terms of dollars, is going to be equal or less

Than I think it makes more sense to bring in Wolf and Garland than bring back Perez. Since I think the differences between the three of them as pitchers isn’t that big.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well, no

you don’t need them, but they sure do help

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 10:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We're not losing picks with by signing Perez.

So stop saying that. We never had those picks to begin with.

If we sign Lowe and let Ollie walk, then fine. But otherwise, what other pitchers would you want? To be honest, I wouldn’t want to give up type A compensation for Sheets, who is pretty much a lock to get injured.

Agree with you on Ibanez. I wouldn’t sign him even if we didn’t have to give up picks.

Personally, I would rather keep Ollie than sign Wolf. Ollie is younger and doesn’t have the injury history Wolf has.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 5:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

You're not focusing on the

emotional side of being a fan of this team. Let’s get some new faces in here to disappoint us!! It’s easier on my ticker. I know Ollie enough to say hi to him in the halls, but not invite him to my birthday party.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 5:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, I'm too rational.

It’s incredible to me how Mets fans haven’t learned their lessons with older players. You guys want to ship Ollie out of here, an under 27 LH pitcher with good stuff who has proven he can pitch in NYC, for guys who are over 30, with injury histories, and one of them has played in Milwaukee his entire career. (Sheets and Wolf.)

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe this is why we disagree

I don’t think Ollie has good stuff, I think he has overrated stuff with major control issues.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

??

He’s a lefty with a fastball that sits around 91-92 and has a nasty slider… doesn’t have good stuff? When Ollie is on he is unhittable. I would agree with the control issues, but like I said, lefties traditionally develop control a bit later on in their careers.

My thing is people seem so eager to ship Oliver out the door, and I don’t know why. He’s pitched well for us, and we could do far worse.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ollie's stuff

is good, but too often he doesn’t have control over it. Great stuff is worthless if you’re running up 3 ball counts on every other batter. Yes, we could do a lot worse, but he’s not worth the money he’s asking for.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i dont want to ship ollie out of NY

but if he wont sign for what he’s worth and someone wants to over pay, then sayanora opie, don’t let the bullpen door hit your ass on the way out.

by kendynamo on Dec 10, 2008 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I totally agree.

He is definitely not worth the exorbitant amount he is asking for, but that price will come down. If it is reasonably within what he is worth, I think we should keep him.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And Ollie doesn’t have the injury history but he’s not nearly as good of a pitcher as Sheets, who fwiw has averaged 28 starts a year is either. If we’re not going to spend money on someone who deserves it then I’d rather pay less/equal and take chances on pitchers with some upside then way way overpay for Oliver.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 5:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'm sick of upside.

I want someone I can count on. And oddly enough, I can count on Ollie taking the ball every 5th day. Plus, Ollie has plenty of upside himself. He’s only 27.

Sorry, I just don’t want to give a contract to someone on the wrong side of 30 who has an injury history. There is nowhere to go but down.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So you want consitency and you don't wan't upside

Yup, Oliver Perez. There’s your man.

by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 9:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

wait, what?

Perez is someone you can count on? I thought it was pretty well established that when Ollie has good stuff he’s very effective but when he doesn’t have his control he’s awful.

You can count on Perez for 4-5 walks most nights.

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As for Sheets making 28 starts per year...

He never finished the season, which is when we need him. I am hoping this team is going to make it to the postseason and I just don’t think guys like Sheets, Wolf, or Penny will be around in October.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Disclaimer

This is a bit of hyperbole by me, so don’t take me literally. The point remains though that you can’t count on these guys.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Someone pointed it out already but

I’d welcome Ollie back for a fair contract. The 5 years, $70 million deal he supposedly is asking for is out-of-this-world bonkers. $14 million a year for a guy who’s actual value is more like $7-8 million a year? No thank you!

Plus I don’t think he’s as dependable as you make him out to be Squad. Hasn’t pitched 200 innings ever in his career (he had 190+ twice, in fairness). He’ll take the ball every 5 days, but will his starts be consistently high quality?

Dude led the league in walks. I’m not paying him more than $10 million a year.

by JamesK on Dec 10, 2008 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A moment of clarity

In no way am I saying we should bow down and sign Ollie’s asking price, because that is waaay too high.

As for dependability, it’s all relative. Is he as dependable as Derek Lowe? No, and that’s why Lowe will get a better contract. But I would argue that he has been more dependable than someone like Sheets or Burnett.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

point taken and well made

and i certainly dont want to be part of any ‘dump on ollie’ campaign. OP is definitely a guy who illicits strong emotions from fans. im kind of on the fence with him. i appreciate that he’s fearless and has come up with some huge clutch performances in the regular season and the playoffs, but his inconsistency is maddening. if his price comes down and he re-signs, im all for seeing him pitch for the mets again. however, those 2 draft picks we would get have to be factored in to that equation. they may not have immediate value but they are of significant worth and it would be foolish to ignore them as a factor in negotiations.

by kendynamo on Dec 10, 2008 6:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: draft picks

Understood, but I still don’t think that draft picks are worth a whole lot to this team. Wright and Reyes are entering their prime and Johan and Beltran are in their prime. This team’s window to win is now.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 7:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Dependable

Fine, I’ll say he is, but is he even that good of a pitcher, projected FIP:
Bill James – 4.85
Marcel – 4.52

Niese projected FIP
Marcel – 4.32

Pedro projected FIP:
Bill James – 3.48
Marcel – 4.50

Granted this projections have problems but as I stated earlier Perez’s recent history hasn’t been too great. I just don’t think Perez is that good even without considering compensational draft picks.

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll counter that

Ollie outperformed BP’s projections last season.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll counter that good sir

I have the book in front of me, they projected an ERA of 4.22…he had an ERA of 4.22 last year…which is really surprising, they actually were spot on, they were off on innings if that’s what you meant.

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought he was projected at 4.30... my mistake.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No problem

but in addition, I would like to point out that ERA is not a great way of projecting future performance, as I showed above Perez has not too imprisive FIPs, but I would like to hear what you think Olivier will be able to put up next year and why.

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 7:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Draft picks aside

I think Perez is a number 4 pitcher that will be paid as a number 2.

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're missing my ultimate point.

I don’t know why some Mets fans think starting pitchers grow on trees, because they don’t. The last two seasons we have been victimized by Pedro and Duque, who both had big roles in ruining the playoff chances of a good team.

I’m not even arguing with you about Ollie’s skill level or production level. He’s certainly not an ace and probably not a #2. I would call him a solid 3 and a great 4.

What confounds me is how some people seem hell bent on getting rid of Perez. Sure, he has his flaws, but he is still a 27 year old LH pitcher with quality stuff who has done well for us the last two years. Keith Law has him ranked as the 10th overall free agent, nevermind pitcher.

And yes, I would rather resign a guy like Perez, who has done well in his two years on my team, than sign a guy like Burnett, who only shows up in contract years.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can't speak for everyone, obviously

I’d love Ollie back, because he has great stuff when he can control it, but not for the years and money that has been discussed. Maybe people are a bit put off by what other FA pitchers are looking at – I mean, 5/$80 million for Burnett? 4/$68 million for Lowe? Ollie (and Boras) have got to be expecting that kind of pay. I don’t want to just throw him out the door, I just don’t want to overpay the guy the way it looks like he will eventually be overpaid.

For the record, I want no part of Burnett.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

Sorry I didn’t realize that you were arguing against a sentiment of being “hell bent on getting rid of Perez.” In that regard, I understand your point and I appreciate you taking the time to fully explain your point of view.

by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ollie is what he is...

and I know that. I wasn’t trying to argue that he was as good as: Sheets, Burnett, Smoltz, or even Johnson.

However, I do think we need to remember that we’re not just playing strat-o-matic baseball. We need guys who are going to take the field on a consistent basis.

by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

His K/9 and and IP were better

But his bb/9 was worse, his ground ball percentage was worse, his hr/9 & h/9 & era were all spot on.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't even know what this thread is discussing anymore, haha

Ollie is an above average young left handed pitcher. He is not worth more than $10 million a year, imho.

by JamesK on Dec 10, 2008 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I basically agree

If he’ll sign for less that then it might make sense. But I wouldn’t want them to sign him instead of signing someone like Ben Sheets.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 7:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

We can all breathe again:

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2008 8:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

hmm..

that didn’t work. Try again:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2008/12/mets-not-intere.html

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2008 8:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whew.

Color me relieved.

'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 8:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

More bullpen news

Metsblog is reporting we’re in talks with Seattle to send Heilman & Mike Carp to Seattle for Putz.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 9:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Not Mike...

“Hey, Carpy, what’s the thing on your neck?”
“Phiten, it’s supposed to make you faster or something.”
“Does it work?”
“No it’s all in my head”

by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

From mlbtraderumors

the Mets are close to acquiring Mariners reliever J.J. Putz in a three-team trade. Putz and K-Rod will be quite a late inning tandem. The Indians are also involved in the trade. Other players in the mix: Aaron Heilman, Endy Chavez, Mike Carp, and Franklin Gutierrez. Rosenthal is not sure yet who’s heading where.

If we could get Putz and Gutierrez I’d stop thinking so many mean thoughts about Omar

by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs