Report: Mets Acquire J.J. Putz In Three-Team Deal
The Seattle Mariners sent right-handed reliever J.J. Putz to the New York Mets on Wednesday night as part of a three-team, nine-player trade with the Cleveland Indians.
The blockbuster deal, which is the first for Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik, was confirmed on Wednesday night by a Major League official.
The Mariners receive right-handed pitcher Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets, along with outfielder Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians.
Putz, who has been involved in trade rumors for several weeks, becomes the eighth-inning setup man for new Mets closer Frankie Rodriguez. Second baseman Luis Valbuena will go the Indians, who also get right-handed pitcher Joe Smith from the Mets in the deal.
Mariners right-handed reliever Sean Green and center fielder Jeremy Reed also are going to the Mets in the trade.
Update...
The Mets also sent Minor League right-hander Maikel Cleto, outfielder Ezequiel Carrera and left-hander Jason Vargas to the Mariners.
11 months ago
Sokojoe
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Hmmm
Not following the Mariners, I didn’t even know he’d lost the closer’s job. But it’d be worth it if he could recapture the kind of stuff he had 2 years ago. That line from 2007 is just ridiculous: 314 ERA+? 0.69 WHIP? I know that’s a career year, but Putz fell a long way last season. That said, he still put together a decent season. If he can cut his walk rate back down, he should be amazing.
Interestingly, b-r lists his closest comp as Huston Street.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 9:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Trading Endy = Bad.
IMO.
"But it's not over yet, everybody thinks it over, but if we can just get the Earth to reverse rotation...this thing can be played again. So there you go, New York Mets......motherf*ckers." - Jon Stewart
by pingel on Dec 10, 2008 9:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Trading Endy isn't bad if we're getting Gutierrez
Who makes Endy look like Raul Ibanez. If not, then I’m not sure. Of course for Endy to be of any value to us our front office and more importantly our manager have to realize how valueable he is, which I’m not sure they do.
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 9:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Just curious...
but Gina, how would you use Endy, and why do you think he is so valuable?
Not trying to start anything, I am genuinely interested to read your take on Endy.
by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We're not getting him.
He would go to Seattle. But, still, I have no problem trading Endy in the right deal. I don’t know whether or not this one qualifies because I have paid approximately zero attention to the Ms in recent years and thus feel as if I should defer to others here.
by madisonmetsfan on Dec 10, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From Indians.com via a commetor @ metsblog
The Mets, Mariners and Indians appear to be on the verge of a three-team deal in which J.J. Putz would go to New York as the setup man to the newly acquired Francisco Rodriguez.
The particulars of the deal were still being worked out Wednesday night at the Bellagio, but MLB.com has learned the Mariners would likely receive Indians outfielder Franklin Gutierrez and the Indians would receive Mets right-handed reliever Joe Smith and Mariners infielder Luis Valbuena.
Mets right-hander Aaron Heilman and Mariners outfielder Jeremy Reed are also believed to be involved, though it is unclear who is headed where.
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 9:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I like Joe Smith and all, but giving up Heils and Smith to get Putz seems like a fair trade to me. And, as I believe you stated on a different thread, I don’t want to give Endy up if we’re not getting Gutierrez in return.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Via a commentor at metsblog
Here’s what Ryan Divish who covers Seattle says:
It’s reported
Mariners get — OF Franklin Gutierrez from Cleveland and Aaron Heilman from NY.
Indians get — IF Luis Valbuena from the Mariners and reliever Joe Smith from the Mets.
Mets get — Putz and Jeremy Reed
Just left our meeting with Mariners general manger Jack Zduriencik and it appears as though a deal for closer J.J. Putz could happen sometime in the coming days and possibly tonight.
When asked if a proposal on the table, Zduriencik said. "Yes, there is something to think about in detail."
I’m not sure where Jeremy Reed fits in with us.
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 10:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Now Heyman is reporting we'd be giving up 6 players?
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 10:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This is all over the place, then?
And, well, I know less than nothing about Jeremy Reed.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 10:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Basically
It seems like it’s going to be something like.
Heilman and Joe Smith for certain, then 6 other players, two of whom are likely Endy and Carp, plus two more players? For Putz and Jeremy Reed?
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bleah
This sounds bad, though I’ll reserve judgment until we find out for sure.
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this better start making more sense
don’t see giving up that much, even if i care not for Smith. Is Omar about to get fleeced?
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The "six players" thing boggles the mind
Heils, Smith, Carp, Endy . . . uh . . . Pedro F.? Show? This sounds waaay out of sorts.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeebus
Omar should’ve just gone after Wood and have been done with it.
If what’s reported is true (it’s likely not), then that is one hell of a load to give away for a hurt reliever. We better not be trading Joe Smith and Heilman to land Putz, all the while downgrading from Endy to Reed. That’s ridiculous.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 10:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
That does sound bad
But I doubt Minaya will get taken like that. Why would he hold onto Heilman so he could get fleeced?
by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthals take also via metsblog
* The Mets will get J.J. Putz, OF Jeremy Reed and reliever Sean Green;
* The Mariners will get Aaron Heilman, OF Endy Chavez, 1B Mike Carp and OF Franklin Gutierrez, plus minor leaguers from the Indians;
* The Indians will get RHP Joe Smith and infielder Luis Valbuena.
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 10:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Huh.
O . . . . . . K? Need some time to digest this, or however it ends up.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that definitely sounds like we're getting shafted now
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’m not liking this at all…welcome aboard Putz, but it seems like the Mets are giving up a lot for an injured player (who has great stuff) but nonetheless, I think they had to retain Joe Smith on that deal. We lose some late inning defense help too with Endy gone. I hope this works out.
by Fucilli5 on Dec 11, 2008 7:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome back Hebrew Hammer!? wtf
another sean green like i need a whole in the head
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 10:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
We need to get started on the nicknaming now
I propose Sean “The Goy” Green — for the sake of clarity.
J.J. Putz, well, no need for any help there.
by anonymous on Dec 11, 2008 9:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think it's a terrible trade
But I don’t think I like it that much other. Even though we got Reed and Green it basically seems like all those players for putz.
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 10:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather keep Endy and dump Reed
But I have an unhealthy amount of Endy love.
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 10:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think endy is overrated by us, but
still, why is he in there?
even worse is the prospect of having to listen to Omar explain this trade AND spin his wheels about why Endy is in there.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's a good question
If the M’s are getting Gutierrez, where would Endy fit in with their plans.
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 10:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i did want Omar to clean house viciously
be careful what you wish for
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's unhealthy?
oh well.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't we just go all high school math here
And negate the Reed and Endy parts of this deal?
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Endy, how I'll miss thee.
"But it's not over yet, everybody thinks it over, but if we can just get the Earth to reverse rotation...this thing can be played again. So there you go, New York Mets......motherf*ckers." - Jon Stewart
by pingel on Dec 11, 2008 1:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please don't.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 10:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Putz makes a lot of money
just checked out Cot’s Contracts, 5 million this year, option for 8.6 next year…why don’t we just sign Cruz again?
by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 10:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
as a blogger and a gentleman i applaud the acquisition of Putz but
is he worth Heilman, Smith, and Endy?
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If this indeed happens
I think I need like 24 hours to take a deep breath, cry my eyes out in front of my autographed picture of “the catch” all night, and then determine if this a decent trade.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 10, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Look at it this way
Endy for Reed
Smith for Green
Carp + Heilman for Putz
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The addition of Green is nice
I still don’t like the money Putz will make next year though
by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and Carp is in there?
does Omar know the location of the Delgado rejuvenation fountain?
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 10:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
that fountain is dry baby
without Carp to pretend to be a legit backup, maybe Omar is going to sign Dunn for OF and 1st and be dunn with it.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My only guess is
He’s thinking some sort of Murphy/Evans platoon will work out there? And he plans on breaking the bank for Holliday?
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carp is a weird player
But I liked him a lot. His walk rates were insane.
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carp Cons
He still hasn’t shown much power potential and his defense was suspect, not good for a first base prospect; but yeah, I loved the batting eye and hope his power develops.
by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 11:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah the power thing was what was weird
If he can develop power and maintain crazy walk rates he could be some kind of dh.
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carp
I’m a fan, but he’s been dreadful against lefties and, as you pointed out, he really hasn’t shown the power necessary for a guy who is already at the crummy end of the defensive spectrum.
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 11:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But Both Carp and Endy were on the opposite end
of my irrational love spectrum
by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
JJ
I guess, I’m in the vast minority here, but I love this trade. Puts was hurt to start the year and came back strong. He’s a near elite reliever. I’ll miss Endy for the ‘the catch’ and Smith ws a decent BP arm, but he’s no Putz.
by whynot on Dec 10, 2008 10:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth
I was counting on a Heilman bounceback, but I honestly didn’t think the fanbase would let the front office keep Heilman around for a try.
by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Still
I don’t dislike the trade until the details are finalized/it happens at all
by Sokojoe on Dec 10, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just hope people don't think Reed = Endy defensively
Reed 2008: UZR -4.3, 0 on +/-
Endy 2008: UZR 14.2 (!), +20 on +/-
They appear similar offensively but I just glanced.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So endy's offense without endy's defense?
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reed was quite good offensively as a minor leaguer
That doesn’t mean dick now, but it’s something.
You’re right, though. Reed < Endy defensively by quite a bit.
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That's unfair to Reed
He’s actually quite good at fielding.
by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 11:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That may be
but Endy’s better. Endy is a god with the glove. With the bat, not so much, but he’s about the best defensive outfielder in the game.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know nothing of Reed
But I do know that I miss Endy already. I suppose I’ll have to go watch The Catch a few hundred times tonight.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just curious
I’ve never seen him play (that I can recall) – why do you think so?
by James Kannengieser on Dec 10, 2008 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reed was a centerfielder though
right? So wouldn’t it stand to reason that if he moves to one of the corners, he should become better defensively, at least relative to that position?
by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2008 11:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently there's a prospect from our end besides Carp
Probably not Evans or Martinez. Probably not Parnell or Kunz. Not Havens, Davis or Holt…
by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2008 11:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You left out Flores?
Accident?
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thole?
If they say Thole, Eric’s head might explode.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
MLB.com
says she’s a done deal:
The Mariners receive right-handed pitcher Aaron Heilman, outfielder Endy Chavez and first baseman Mike Carp from the Mets, along with outfielder Franklin Gutierrez from the Indians.
Putz, becomes the eighth-inning setup man for new Mets closer Frankie Rodriguez. Second baseman Luis Valbuena will go the Indians, who also get right-handed pitcher Joe Smith from the Mets in the deal.
Mariners right-handed reliever Sean Green and center fielder Jeremy Reed also are going to the Mets in the trade.
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Dec 10, 2008 11:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Right
I updated the details above.
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 11:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you can burn my previous post
if you have that kind of power
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Dec 10, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good bye Aaron Poopeyface Parking Place Heilman
so long and thanks for all the fish
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Putz' injury
So how bad was it? I only vaguely remember hearing he was injured, but don’t recall anything about it. Can we expect him to be recovered by the spring?
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So those are the only player we're giving up for sure?
I still don’t know for sure how I feel about it.
by Gina on Dec 10, 2008 11:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm scared
usually i can make rash judgments on a trade right away, rant and rave about it then get talked down. this trade I’m just confused. Someone needs to form an opinion for me.
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Dec 10, 2008 11:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm trying this one:
the mets needed to clean house in the pen so Omar did it
they needed a bridge to one inning frankie, and they got it
they needed a putz for the tabloid headlines
they got it
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On the plus side
we got ourselves a potentially awesome 8th inning man/backup closer-if Putz is healthy. Also, we didn’t give up any real prospects. I like Carp, but I think he’s got a low ceiling at 1B.
On the downside, we gave up 2 of the biggest parts of our bullpen, and Heilman is probably going to resurrect his career next season. Really, I will miss both Everyday Joe and Heilman. Also, we’re getting worse defensively, although just about anyone compared to Endy is a downgrade.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carp was expendable
With the emergence of Murphy and Evans. Plus we have Davis as well.
Did Endy play enough for this to be considered a downgrade defensively?
by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No Prospect
It looks like there is no additional prospect. I guess I’m all by myself loving this trade.
Putz has been improving every year, and was exceptional in 07. He was hurt to start 08, then came back strong at the end. His stuff is better than Street’s. Omar has gotten a top shelf set-up man.
Endy’s D will be sorely missed, Smith is replaceable as a ROOGY. I liked Carp’s bat, but his power wasn’t huge and he’s basically a DH guy. Don’t know much about Green’s stuff, but he was excellent to start 2008, and then awful after the break.
LOVE IT!
by whynot on Dec 10, 2008 11:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's not a terrible deal, I don't think
I’d like it more if the Mets held onto Endy.
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 11:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if it was endy for green thts a stinker
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ENDY
I love defense, and Endy’s is exceptional, but I wouldn’t let him be the deal breaker for Putz. JJ has some nasty stuff. He’s closed before, but for his early season injury has improved each year, and is controlled for 2 years at decent money.
ANd he’s cranking the AC/DC! Putz and KRod! I never would’ve believed we’d have both in the bullpen next year.
by whynot on Dec 10, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you're not alone
I think this is going to look like a really good deal in a year or two. Heilman and Smith both have some upside and I’ll miss them both, but this is basically a collection of spare parts buying us a lot of bullpen depth and quality, and a throw-in fourth outfielder whose bat might be improvable. Endy Chavez is nothing to get upset about.
by anonymous on Dec 10, 2008 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Putz I'll miss you...
No more AC/DC at M’s games anymore now =(
My heart has been thunderstruck….
BOOYA! You got Slurved!
by Slurvey on Dec 10, 2008 11:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Is that his entrance music?
Oh shit I just totally love this trade officially right now.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sign Hoffman
and you’ve got an AC/DC greatest hits album going
by James Kannengieser on Dec 10, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding, right?
I would have no choice but to quit my job, scrounge up some season tickets and head to CitiField every day just so I could wave my devil horns and rock out to AC/DC. Provided, of course, that the Mets needed to use one or both of those pitchers.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Music
Is there any precedent for playing an entrance tune for someone other than the closer? I’m failing to think of any off the top of my head.
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably not
But can you really stop the THUNDER! (ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah)
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Except we substituted THUN!-DER! with J! J!
BOOYA! You got Slurved!
by Slurvey on Dec 10, 2008 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like it
I’ll have to keep it in mind if he’s allowed to keep the music.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
when Heilman came in
i often hummed the theme to sanford and son
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heilman
Didn’t he always come in to London Calling?
by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 11:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know about entrance music
but he usually left to boos and jeers.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And on some occasions...
…He entered on boos and jeers.
" CITI...It's only money. "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 11, 2008 9:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They actually played Sanford and Son for Uncle Cliffy a couple of years ago.
He was into it.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Dec 11, 2008 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did the Mets
keep playing Johnny B. Goode after John Franco was demoted to setup work? I have no clue.
by Alex Nelson on Dec 10, 2008 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he was injured so soon after that it didn't matter
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
of course they did
he was still the man
by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heilman used to come in to paint it black and london calling
by James Kannengieser on Dec 10, 2008 11:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
seattle calling
aaron sees a late inning lead and he wants to paint it black, he sees a triumph and he wants to paint it black, he sees a season and he wants to paint it black
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Vivid Memory for me
I always keep track of the players with good music. Lets hope this Sean has taste as good as our last one.
by yellomellojello on Dec 11, 2008 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Freakin The Show
has a song he comes into. I can’t remember what it is. “From Yesterday” are the only lyrics I can remember..
"But it's not over yet, everybody thinks it over, but if we can just get the Earth to reverse rotation...this thing can be played again. So there you go, New York Mets......motherf*ckers." - Jon Stewart
by pingel on Dec 11, 2008 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok
Now we have one EXTRA hole to fill in the pen.
I was really hoping Heilman would be able to be a starter this year.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 11:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
hopefully
he’ll get a chance to start in Seattle. The guy looks so dour
by Patrick Clark on Dec 10, 2008 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Goes well with the weather up there.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2008 11:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Best of luck to him.
I wanted to keep him, but I guess this also helps clean out the bullpen from the past 2 years. It would be nice to see him get another chance to start, even if it’s not in Queens.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Career Stats on Green
from b-r:
2006: 32 INN, 34 H, 15 K, 13 BB, 98 ERA+, 1.47 WHIP
2007: 68 INN, 77 H, 53 K, 34 BB, 113 ERA+, 1.63 WHIP
2008: 79 INN, 80 H, 62 K, 36 BB, 90 ERA+, 1.46 WHIP
And he turns 29 in April. Not exactly falling in love with the guy already.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Plus his name is Sean Green
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 11:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand, you gotta like a guy named Putz
I can’t find a good link, but I think his injury was a sore rib cage and elbow inflammation.
Less happy after hearing what he’s owed for the last two years, but his 2007 was pretty great.
by Patrick Clark on Dec 10, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Putz
I am totally stoked to wear that jersey. That dude’s name made him destined to play in NY
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SCHLOTKINS!
We’re done with you. Go back to the golf course and work on your puts.
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2nd spaceballs of the day, nice, now...
KEEP FIRING ASSHOLES.
by kendynamo on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BUT
Green:
2007 FIP: 3.70
2008 FIP: 3.65
Smith:
2007 FIP: 3.98
2008 FIP: 3.97
by James Kannengieser on Dec 10, 2008 11:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that deserves a
w00t
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Dec 10, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Green gets a lot of groundballs
And doesn’t give up homeruns. The rest of his peripherals are iffy, but keeping the ball on the ground and in the park has plenty of value.
by Eric Simon on Dec 10, 2008 11:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Splits
vs. RH: 272/329/352 .336 BABIP
vs. LH: 289/408/422 .313 BABIP
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
rough BABIP, how are his line drive rates?
by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
According to FanGraphs
2006: 18.9LD, 57.5GB, 23.6FB
2007: 20.3LD, 60.9GB, 18.8FB
2008: 17.1LD, 63.3GB, 19.5%FB
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully Omar chills with the pen for a few days
and shows the rotation some love
by James Kannengieser on Dec 10, 2008 11:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i want more more more
more relief more more more
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
everyone knows this perhaps but
looks like Omar beat out the Tigres who were favored to land the Putz
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:36 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
JJ
I hope you guys like this better in the morning. Now let’s get us some DLowe (or Sheets)
by whynot on Dec 10, 2008 11:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
A question
Is there any chance at all that Wagner has a miraculous recovery and can come back next season for September/October? I remember that there was a pitcher who recently went through similar surgery and came back way ahead of schedule… maybe I’m thinking of Gallardo’s ACL surgery.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 11:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
yeah i was thinking that too
a premature return for Billy Goat, now that would be interesting
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was gonna ask that myself
that would be an absolutely nasty 7-9. That said, I still wouldn’t be opposed to signing Trevor Hoffman if he’s willing to set up and try for a ring.
by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2008 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
me neither
nor a few more younger arms. I’d like to have arguably a better ending 3 than starting 3. arguably
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Me neither, too.
Can you ever really have too many good bullpen arms?
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just like you can never have too much chocolate pudding
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 11, 2008 12:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How about $240 worth?
We had the $240, and we just had to have the pudding
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
Once you get up there past $240 worth of pudding it just starts to get excessive
by JoshNY on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yikes
you can have too much vanilla pudding though
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
/Fail
Heilman could of been a decent #5 slot starter. Watch, he will start for the mariners and will probably be somewhat successful. I’m also really disappointed that we lost sidearm Smitti, he was a pretty good reliever. So essentially we trade a generally good reliever (heilman) for putz. Both had bad years. And we swap Endy “amazin catch” Chavez for a not as good defender (Reed) and we get green for smith. To me, i would have rather kept our guys and signed lyon, hoffman and maybe another (perhaps ayala?)
by krg391 on Dec 10, 2008 11:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You are really overvaluing out players.
by SQUAD on Dec 10, 2008 11:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Heilman needed a change of scenery
to put it nicely
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 10, 2008 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
I think that’s the big reason Omar shopped him this off-season. His value is at its lowest point, but most of the fans have lost all faith in him. I really think 2009 is going to be a bounce-back year for him, but the change in scenery should help, as should the move to Safeco
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 10, 2008 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
agree
I know Heilman’s gonna have a bounce back year and a ton of Mets fans will be all like “see, he was still good, we shouldn’t have traded him” – but I’m firmly of the belief that he wasn’t going to succeed in NY. He needs that change in scenery
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
In the end
It may be (is) a good trade for the Mets, but I refuse to back a trade that involves Endy. My heart beats my head here.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 10, 2008 11:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
More players in the deal:
We give up Jason Vargas and two minor leaguers I have never heard of.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:03 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
RHP Maikel Cleto and outfielder Ezequiel Carrera
Don’t know much about ’em.
by Eric Simon on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Other Guys
Cleto’s got a great arm — can ratchet the heater up to the high 90s. Breaking stuff needs work, but he’s very young.
Ezequiel Carrera is a speedy outfielder with okay on-base ability, little-to-no power. Needs to improve his contact rate some.
by Alex Nelson on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Love this blog.
Thanks for the info Blackfish.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Appreciate the scouting report
The numbers don’t say too much, especially with only 2 years experience.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Carrera is a skinny 21-year old OF with no power and ok OBP skills. He spent 2008 in high-Class A. Cleto is a 19-year old RHP, also with 2 years of minor league experience. Has trouble keeping runners off the bases (1.37 WHIP in 174.3 innings)
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just to add,
Whatever his fastball may be,Cleto doesn’t strike out many guys. He’s got only 110K in 174.3INN. Don’t guys with good fastballs usually dominate in the lower levels almost entirely on their heat? Not that I’m saying he sucks, just saying the lack of strikeouts sticks out noticeably.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I'm
gonna go to bed and wait for it to be cleared up in the morning
by James Kannengieser on Dec 11, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeremy Reed
I feel like he doesn’t have a great shot to be on the opening day roster, esp if Ibanez or Dunn or some other character is signed. 7 players for 2 relief pitchers? Need to sleep on it.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
7 for 2
Yeah, it seems like a lot, but all of those players were expendable. I’m not losing sleep over any of those guys.
Ok… maybe I’ll lose a few hours over Endy, but I’ll have an expresso in the morning and I’ll be fresh as a daisy.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
7 for 3
Putz, Green, and Reed for Heilman, Smitty, Endy, Vargas, Carrera, and Cleto. We didn’t give up any prize prospects. Really, the best we gave up were Endy and Heilman. And Heilman’s value is dependent on how he does next season
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the 7 for 2
comes from the fact that I don’t think Reed will be good enough to be on the opening day roster. Still too early though.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 11, 2008 12:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hard to say
With Endy gone, we don’t have a defensive backup OF. Assuming Omar doesn’t reverse course and Murphy doesn’t go to second, we’ve got a 3 man platoon of Tatis/Evans/Hammer in left. I’m not sure all 3 of them go north. Evans and Murph are very similar, and I think Omar wants a more experienced OF glove backing them up
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is Reed known for his D?
I honestly don’t know anything about him except his D stats.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reed
He was very good defensively a couple of years ago in a full season. The last two seasons UZR isn’t thrilled, but they were partials so it may be a sample size thing or some other oddity.
by Eric Simon on Dec 11, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course, this is assuming
we don’t wind up with Dunn or (god forbid) Ibanez. Then, both kids probably start next year in the minors, barring an amazing spring. But I’m getting way too far ahead here.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Reed's only 27 and has been a decent prospect
so I’m probably wrong.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 11, 2008 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
soooo
Is the media going to flip out over the fact that this was done late at night like they did with Willie’s firing?
by JoshNY on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
the midnight Putz grab!
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally
I love this trade. Putz missed a chunk of the season from June 11 – July 20. Check out his numbers after he got back:
27 G, 27.1 IP, 25 H, 11 BB, 33 K, 3 HR, 2.96 ERA, 1.32 WHIP
They’re not off the chart numbers, but he would have been the best reliever in our bullpen during that stretch, and he was coming off an injury. If he gets back to anything approaching his ’07 numbers (or even just his ’06 numbers) this trade will be a steal.
I don’t like to see Endy go, but how valuable was he really for us? His defense is fantastic, but his OPS+ has gone from 101 to 84 to 69. He’s just not a very good hitter, and he’s not gonna make up for it with his defense in the few innings he’d be getting out there (admit it, it’s infuriating to see him pinch hit for a pitcher and then not get double switched into the field).
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Joe Smith and Sean Green seem like a wash to me
So it seems more like a lot of players for Putz and maybe Reed? I don’t think it’s a bad deal but it does seem like a lot of useful parts to give up when there were so many relievers available in the market.
by Gina on Dec 11, 2008 12:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
And I’m pretty sure every paper/blog etc. is gonna declare WHAT A STEAL!!! when I think it’s a pretty even deal. Mets are an improved team though.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 11, 2008 12:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Potential steal
If Heilman doesn’t return to form, and Putz does. I do like this deal; I’m just a little sentimental about the guys we gave up.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Putz returns to form..
that’s a freaking MVP Baseball bullpen.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said I don't dislike it
It just seems like a lot to give up. Especially when we have other holes to fill outside of the bullpen.
by Gina on Dec 11, 2008 12:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What did we give up?
Putz replaces Heilman.
Green replaces Smith.
Reed replaces Endy.
Carp was expendable because of Evans, Murphy, and Davis.
I don’t care about Vargas.
The two minor leaguers are so young they won’t matter for a while, if ever.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
we took a (big) hit defensively, although Reed may be better offensively. We’re also gambling that Heilman doesn’t recover and continue pitching like he did from 2005-07. Yeah, the kids were definitely expendable, and Carp is blocked by Murphy and Evans, with Ike Davis coming up behind him. And Green at a minimum replaces Joe as the righty specialist. But it’s still a 7 for 3 trade, and only maybe Putz makes me go wow.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Only maybe Putz"
You do realize that Heilman could get in a time machine and trade places with his 2006 self and still wouldn’t be better than Putz.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I know that
But Putz was injured last year. And I know how crazy good he was in 2007, but there’s no guarantee he’ll be anywhere as good next year. Although he’s been above average most years, he does have trouble keeping the bases empty.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of relivers have the same problem (Wagner, K-Rod, etc)
And there is no guarantee Heilman will rebound.
Heilman was a miserable dude and he was TERRIBLE from the first pitch he threw last year. It was time for him to go.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True
It’s not fair (or sensible) to expect Heilman to rebound from a truly awful season while not expecting Putz to rebound from a better one.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
The rotation holes will be filled from free agency with Niese/Parnell/Stokes as fall back options.
I doubt we’ll be able to unload Castillo to upgrade 2B… ditto for Schneider and C.
Honestly, the bullpen is what killed this team last season. The rotation was very good in the second half, the offense was solid… the bullpen was gloriously awful.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the rotation was good
but frequently failed to work deep into games, leaving the bullpen overworked, especially once Wagner got hurt
by JoshNY on Dec 11, 2008 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have the stats...
but do our starters go any less into games than the league average?
(did that make sense?)
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just guessing
but I actually think our starters went deeper on average this year than they did in ’07, unfortunately our bullpen was also worse this year.
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pelf and Santana worked deep into games
the rest, not so much
by JoshNY on Dec 11, 2008 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure it was second base
All who played there were bad. Really bad.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you think 2B
killed us more than the bullpen? Teams can make up for one bad position out of 8, they can’t make up for one awful pitcher on the mound.
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The BtB rankings convinced me
http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2008/10/20/638889/best-second-basemen-of-200
Our starter, backup, and replacement players were below replacement.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
3 of the 5 worst
egads. I still say our reprehensible bullpen was more to blame, b/c overall we had a very good offense (tied for 2nd in the league with the Phils at 4.93 RS/game)
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Starting pitching
There’s been no word on who Omar is pursuing there. And signing Rodriguez takes a big bite out of that budget.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually
I think he’s looking at Raul Ibanez to be both our starting left fielder and our #3 starter. He’s in that good of shape…
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
with the body of a 25-year old, that might actually work.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you think
that Green simply replaces Smith as ROOGY? If so, is the bullpen now fixed? Also one thing that confused me. On the Mets homepage story, it mentions Ayala being used as a trade chip, but I thought he was a free agent. Either way, he would be great for the 7th inning I reckon.
Rodriguez
Putz
Ayala
Feliciano/Schoeneweis (deal one) (LOOGY)
Green (ROOGY)
Stokes
Sanchez/Ruff Eddie/Parnell
by deadspy3 on Dec 11, 2008 4:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
TOO MANY PLAYERS
i can’t process this right now. i hope some smart baseball writer types can figure this out so i can waste a bunch of time reading about it tomorrow. as of now, sorry to see some of my favorite Mets go but, Putz, yeah, i can work with that.
by kendynamo on Dec 11, 2008 12:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Who closes - K-Rod or Putz?
Just kidding.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 11, 2008 12:24 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Actually
This could be a valid question to ask. I’m too tired to go into it more than that. It’s perfectly reasonable that Putz will be better than Frankie this season.
umm, maybe Omar is thinking we ditch the closer role. Maybe not.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 11, 2008 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fuentes is still out there...
Who's world is it? It's yours.
by BlackOps on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How many closers do we need?
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Dec 11, 2008 8:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They could make this a nightly segment on diamond vision...
Rock. Paper. Scissor. to see who closes.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 12:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
if Putz is putting up his 2007 numbers
it’s a no-brainer:
71.7 IP, 82 K, 13 BB, 1.38 ERA, .698 WHIP
Those numbers are sick. Actually, I almost prefer to have him not-closing, he can be like our “relief ace”
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
we could get our freak on by having our more or less best reliever in when the game counts just like the stats tells us!
yippie
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
post-injury 2008 numbers
27.1 IP 2.96 ERA 33 Ks 1.31 WHIP
better than anything in our bullpen last year
by englishgrey on Dec 11, 2008 1:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what did we really lose?
out of all those players we gave up, only joe smith really contributed anything useful to the team. it sucks to lose endy, and i still had some faith in heilman, but i think it’s worth it for someone like putz who can be so dominant.
ok omar, sign sheets and dunn and then you can take a vacation until feburary.
by englishgrey on Dec 11, 2008 12:50 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
only contributed anything useful to this team LAST YEAR
endy and heilman have been key in the past, of course
by englishgrey on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
to this. Some people are making it sound like we’re giving up Turk Wendell circa 1999 and Mookie Wilson for nothing. Heilman was awful last year and whether it should matter or not, was despised by the fans. And Endy was a nice 4th outfielder, nothing more, nothing less. His defense made up for his bat to the point that he was serviceable, but we’re not talking about a difference maker here.
By the way, anyone else find it strange that we’re trading the guys responsible for the highest and lowest moments of the 2006 postseason (and maybe even of the whole post-Piazza era?)
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, not necessarily the lowest point
But there’s no way we’re trading Beltran
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 11, 2008 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
good point
boy, I had almost blocked the bottom of the inning out of my head. I am an unabashed Beltran lover though, so I like to pretend that season ended with a Yadier F’in Molina walkoff
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 1:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"Heilman was awful last year"
Yes, but this isn’t important. What’s important is how he will be NEXT YEAR. Maybe he’ll continue to be bad but a lot of people seem to expect him to rebound.
by JoshNY on Dec 11, 2008 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BBTF
thinks we’re the winners:
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/mets_acquired_putz/
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 1:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
a step further
the 2009 ZiPs projections for Putz and KRod:
G IP H ER HR BB SO ERA ERA+
Putz 58 59 44 17 4 19 71 2.59 166
K-Rod 74 74 50 22 4 35 102 2.68 160
If we had that at the back of our bullpen last year, we win 95+ games, and Broad St. would be riot-free.
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 1:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh-oh
From ESPN.com via Metsblog.com:
"His agent, Craig Landis, said Putz wants to remain a closer.
“He’s one of the top five or 10 closers in the game,” Landis said. “No, he would not want to be a set-up man.”
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 1:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Then again...
this quote could have been from a while ago.
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 1:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is more like it:
from Mets.com
“It’s not the ideal situation, but having the two of us at the back of the bullpen will be pretty strong,” Putz said in a telephone interview Wednesday night. “I will not change my approach at all. I will close the game in eighth and give the ball to Frankie.”
by SQUAD on Dec 11, 2008 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
excellent news
I saw that original quote a little while ago and was nervous
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome
Lays a big concern to rest.
by Eric Simon on Dec 11, 2008 1:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent.
I’m ready for 2009.
Well….more ready than I was three days ago.
"But it's not over yet, everybody thinks it over, but if we can just get the Earth to reverse rotation...this thing can be played again. So there you go, New York Mets......motherf*ckers." - Jon Stewart
by pingel on Dec 11, 2008 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and, before you get all nostalgic:
why we had to make this trade:
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 2:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
you have to trade everyone who does something bad at some point in his career
we definitely need to trade Beltran too for that strikeout. it’s a good thing Wright and Reyes have never ever ever struck out in big spots.
by JoshNY on Dec 11, 2008 8:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
it's not just for the one moment
the one moment is just a symbol of Heilman’s larger sucktitude. I am on record as saying that I expect Heilman to bounce back next year, I just didn’t think it would happen in NY. Obviously now there’s no way to test my theory, so I’m ready for all the Heilman defenders to point to his expected resurgence as proof that we didn’t need to trade him, but I don’t think he would have re-surged(?) with the Mets, with 35k+ fans ready to boo the crap out of him the first time he puts a guy on base or lets up a run or (god-forbid) blows a lead.
by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth...
… I like this trade. Endy has been a great Met but a bench OF with absolutely no offense is a luxury we had to give up in order to address one of the main problems.
by deadspy3 on Dec 11, 2008 3:41 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Mariners fan.
Seems like a rare deal where every team won.
Reed always had offensive potential and had a great minor league career. But his offense never clicked. He looks pretty lost at the plate. Its safe to give up hope on his offense returning to the .300 mark. His defense is pretty good, though.
Sean Green gets a ton of groundballs. Not an overly strikeout happy pitcher, he just gets the job done. He is certainly replaceable, but he is actually pretty dependable and is a pleasant surprise. You wont notice him much, though. He has the charisma of a telephone pole. Over at Lookout Landing, our head guy Jeff did a weekly Tuesdays with Sean Green comedy poking fun at his lack of charisma. Its actually enduring and we love the guy for his lack of pizzaz. Him in New York is hilarious.
You guys will love Putz if he is anywhere close to 06/07 form (best reliever in the majors, bar none). I still get chills about him striking out Barry Bonds to end a 1 run game after an epic at bat. He has charisma off the charts, very friendly, competitive, fiery, and can be a big clubhouse leader.
When Putz first joined the Mariners, he sucked. Not very good at all. Everyone called for his head. Then Eddie Guarado taught him a splitter before he himself was traded, and Putz turned into a different player.
Enjoy the 98 mph fastballs and splitters. He has a 3rd pitch, but its blah. Although his numbers look great after he returned from injury last year, he actually gave us scares. Allowed a bit more baserunners we’re not used to—-and it was noticeable…also seemed to be throwing a few mph less. His fastball doesn’t have enough movement to survive if he isn’t throwing in the high 90s. Hopefully it was just rust and he will return to form.
If he does return to form, be ready and dont take him for granted. He is among the most epic players I have ever seen.
by Slica on Dec 11, 2008 6:43 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
nice.
enjoy endy, man. hope some guys in the bag o’ prospects pan out for the Ms, too.
by glockspiel on Dec 11, 2008 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
endy is a gem
dont expect him to do much at the plate. you’ll see him bunt a lot. but hopefully you’ll also see him make some spectacular plays in the outfield. he is gifted with the leather.
by kendynamo on Dec 11, 2008 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OH GLORY BE!!!!!!!!! HEILMAN IS GONE!!!!! DON'T GO AWAY MAD, JUST GO AWAY!!!
" CITI...It's only money. "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 11, 2008 9:08 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
some love for heilman
heilman had a rotten year last year. but for the previous three years, he was terrific. and throughout he was a classy guy.
by glockspiel on Dec 11, 2008 9:26 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I made it abundantly clear that since the middle of the 2007 season
that he started blowing it out of his rear end.
Sorry, I never developed this endearing love for Heilman that the majority of the blog has. Glad to see him gone.
" CITI...It's only money. "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 11, 2008 9:35 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You should have made that abundantly clearer
Because Heils’ second half numbers in 2007 apparently weren’t listening (sorry for the rough formatting):
July 15 G, 19 IP, 2.84 ERA, 15 K, 0.947 WHIP, .222 BAA
August 12 G, 11.2 IP, 2.31 ERA, 8 K, 1.696 WHIP, .304 BAA
Sept/Oct 17 G, 17.2 IP, 2.04 ERA, 14 K, 0.872 WHIP, .164 BAA
I can’t begrudge anyone for holding 2008 against Heils (well, maybe a little), but he was basically our best reliever down the stretch in 2007. I don’t know how you can hold that against him.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 11, 2008 9:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
egad
you know me. not one for numbers. he must have not impressed me when I “saw” him pitch during the latter half of ’07. I guess the times I “saw” him pitch, he blew. Maybe it was me “jinxing” him. Such as on:
Aug 11th loss to Florida
Aug 16th loss to Pittsburgh
Aug 23rd loss to San Diego
Sep 14th loss to Philadelphia
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 11, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and some more numbers for the numbers lover
2007
Wins 7
Losses 7
Save opportunities 6
Saves 1
Not that grand heh?
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 11, 2008 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Allow me to apologize for my lack of a "man crush" on Heilman
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 11, 2008 5:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Objective statistics ARE terrible
But, apology accepted.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 11, 2008 5:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 11, 2008 5:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
we really haven’t established yet that wins and losses are a poor way to judge a pitcher?
by JoshNY on Dec 12, 2008 9:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh?
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 12, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
hang on, I'll speak up
WINS AND LOSSES ARE A POOR WAY TO JUDGE A PITCHER
by anonymous on Dec 12, 2008 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
due to the sheer overuse of sarcasm on this blog
it’s hard to tell if you you’re being serious or not.
just say what you mean.
Heilman blew four games in the 2nd half of ’07 and it just so happens that I happened to see them. I did not guage his overall 2nd half performance. (that was my fault)
7 wins / 7 losses. .500 result.
6 SVO and 1 save. Pretty lousy IMO.
What else do you want to say? I truly don’t need attitude.
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 12, 2008 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What I want to say
Is that looking at wins and losses and saves is a poor way to judge a pitcher’s performance, because they’re largely dependent on situation and the performance of the rest of the team, but you just keep repeating them, along with the fact that you coincidentally saw four of the games that he “lost”, as if they represented the entirety of Heilman’s performance during that time period.
by JoshNY on Dec 12, 2008 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok. I can understand your rationale
and in the above reply to anonymous I mentioned that it was my fault that I did not take into account Heilman’s total body of work for the 2nd half of ’07.
I do feel it’s worthy to note however that as in football, when a team loses, a QB gets a great deal of the blame. For example: Say the QB throws an interception but it wasn’t necessarily his fault. The WR ran the incorrect route. Sure, in this case the blame belongs to other players on the not necessarily the QB.
In the case of Heilman, the guy contantly seemed to just give up a hit(s) or walk in the worst possible situation and as a result, his poor efforts (not necessarily those of the guys behind him) is what cost the game.
He’s the most important person out there when the team is on defense due to the fact that ultimately has the most power to dictate what will happen via his pitches.
Sure, the guy had some good stats in the latter half of 07, however, when he seemed to be put in a situation in which he had the opportunity to save the game he performed poorly. The stats show that…not my opinion.
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 12, 2008 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"(not necessarily those of the guys behind him)"
I don’t have the time right now here at work, but I’d be intrigued to see what impact the defense behind Heilman had on his results in some of those games you’ve cited.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 12, 2008 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I was thinking the same thing. That’s gonna take some work. It wouldn’t surprise me if your research ends up destroying my analysis.
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 12, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
As well...
…What I’m getting out of this conversation is that W / L “may be” a poor way to judge a pitcher’s worth, however, is it fair to say that he was a great pitcher because he got some wins? Maybe the defense behind him was great on that day whereas his pitches were not. Did “he” earn that win or did the “defense” behind him earn it?
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 12, 2008 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously
Wins and losses are a poor way to judge a pitcher. Always. This is a general truth. They are poor indicators of actual performance — not just because of defense, either, but because they also depend on the way the pitcher’s team hits — and they are even worse predictors of future performance. There’s hardly a worse stat that regularly gets used in discussions of baseball (saves, maybe). It would be better for all of us if pitchers’ W-L records stopped being recorded and mentioned at all, ever. They’re at least as much noise as meaningful information.
by anonymous on Dec 12, 2008 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna stick up for Lou a little bit here
true, wins and losses are a terrible way to judge modern starting pitchers (they were much more useful in the days when pitchers threw complete games), but they are somewhat useful in valuing relievers. Well, not wins, but losses. If a relief pitcher has a ton of losses, that means he came into a bunch of games that his team was tied or had a lead, and he left those games with his team losing. It’s still not a great way to determine how good a guy was, but you don’t want to see a reliever with a high loss total.
by cjmulrain on Dec 12, 2008 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
much obliged
" We got "The Rod"...What you got? "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 12, 2008 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
But that still doesn’t take into account whether a reliever might’ve gotten a loss because his defense let him down, as was the case in two of the four that Lou listed.
by JoshNY on Dec 12, 2008 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing with Heilman.
His ERA+ was 81 last year… that’s not good.
Granted, his ERA+ for the previous three years was pretty fantastic, but I’m going to go beyond stats here.
From the first game Heilman entered in 2008, there was something wrong with this guy. He wasn’t pounding the zone (evidenced by the drastic increase in his walk rate) and worse, he wasn’t keeping the ball down.
There can be any number of reasons for this, but the bottom line is that he looked terrible, and the stats back that up. This isn’t a case where his peripherals were ok and we can expect better results next year. Plus, in a situation like this, I don’t really trust projections, because projections take into account what he’s done prior to 2008… and I’m saying he looked like a totally different pitcher. He didn’t just have an off year, he was putrid throughout.
In addition to having no way of knowing whether this guy would bounce back this year (again, he looked terrible), you have to also take into account other, non-game related stuff. He has been on the wrong end of some gloriously depressing home runs and the general fan has pretty much had enough of him. Look at Schoenweis, he had a pretty good year, and when I try to point that out to my Met fan friends, they say, “Schoenweis blows.” Heilman’s demeanor pretty much ensures he wouldn’t ever get back in the fan’s good graces and he could be pitching like Mo Rivera all year long, but the first time he blew a save it would be chaos.
by SQUAD on Dec 12, 2008 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, this thread really blew up overnight
Yeah, no denying Heils was pretty terrible in 2008 but I hope he gets an opportunity to work and get better out in Seattle. I get what you’re saying about “classy,” too. For all the crap he took from the fans this past year he could’ve blown a gasket at just about any time but the dude seemed to keep his cool and acknowledged that, well, he was pretty crap.
I’ve always been a fan of his and I would have liked to see him have the chance to turn things around with the Mets but, hell, that’s baseball I guess. Best of luck to the man.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 11, 2008 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can dig that.
Good luck to him in Seattle. I just feel better as a METS fan knowing that I won’t have to worry about him anymore.
" CITI...It's only money. "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 11, 2008 9:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
ok - ive read some more crap
and i definitely like the deal.
We gave up a lot of players but we ended up with, by far, the most valuable player in the trade, and that usually means we came out on top, especially with ‘win now’ strategy. Putz is pretty all right, I think we will all enjoy having him and frank-rod in the pen a whole bunch.
I will, however, miss the guys we gave up. Of all our prospects, i think i may have been most anxious to see Carp in the majors taking over at 1st. Realistically, he is probably never going to make it. additionally vargas, carrera and cleto are not worth losing sleep over. they are pretty much throw-aways you include to get the deal done.
heilman (who i still liked, tight pants and all) and joe smith still had plenty of use in the bullpen, but getting putz and green easily outweighs their loss.
that leaves endy. who here doesn’t love endy? his bat totally blows but his glove is other worldly. and thats where endy’s value comes from. you dont use him as a starter, or a 4th outfielder, you use him as a late inning defensive replacement. hes the positional equivalent to a closer. you leverage the situation and give up an at-bat or so (though he also has great speed for pinch running use), to get the most use out of his glove. i think if anything endy is being under valued in this trade and he is definitely who we are going to miss most when all is said and done, both in value and for sentimental reasons.
and this reed guy looks like a turd, i dont see him ever contributing anything, but we’ll see i guess.
that said, our bullpen hasnt been dominant since 2006 and was a major concern for the team and now omar, in short time has gone out and gotten two A closers and only given up 2 draft picks, 4 scrubs, average middle relievers and a 4th outfielder. i think we should all be pretty pleased with this offseason so far. now lets see if we can improve on left feild, catcher and second base.
by kendynamo on Dec 11, 2008 9:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
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