Mets Pursuing Ibanez
by Eric Simon on Dec 9, 2008 1:22 PM EST
Email
PrintAccording to Jayson Stark at ESPN.com:
The Phillies, Mets and Cubs appear to have separated themselves from the pack of teams pursuing outfielder Raul Ibanez. Ibanez also is on the radar screen of the Braves and Angels.
No no no no no fortheloveofjebus no. We've already been over this. So have others. Even as I recognize the silliness of getting worked up over some mostly baseless rumor floated on ESPN.com, the fact that the Mets are even expressing remote interest in Ibanez strikes me as mind-numbingly absurd. I'm going to close my eyes and think happy thoughts and hope this whole thing just goes away. Lalalalala.
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For the first time in my life
I am rooting for the Phillies to beat the Mets.
Haha
+1.
I really don’t understand what the fuss is, though. Does this guy have a virus or something?
"When the little children start to speak they once said 'Mama' and 'Papa', but with the fans we got they say the first thing, 'Metsie, Metsie, Metsie'." - Casey Stengel
1) Would cost us draft picks
2) Is a horrendous fielder
3) Is significantly older than other free agent LFs who, though also horrendous fielders, are better hitters than he is and would not cost us draft picks.
What I don't understand
is that no one was complaining about this when Moises Alou was signed, even though he was much older, comparable offensively and defensively, and was guaranteed to spend half the season on the DL. I understand that Ibanez would cost us a draft pick, but he’s 36 (really not that old) and averages 600 AB per season. It seems that after last year’s corner-outfield debacle, that should mean something. I don’t get why everyone is ideologically opposed to this (rumored) trade.
"When the little children start to speak they once said 'Mama' and 'Papa', but with the fans we got they say the first thing, 'Metsie, Metsie, Metsie'." - Casey Stengel
Alou > Ibanez
Ibanez had an OPS+ of 121 and 124 the last 2 years. Alou had an OPS+ of 138 and 132 in the 2 years before the Mets signed him.
Also, the Mets signed Alou to a 1 year deal, so when he broke down the Mets were not stuck with a bad contract on the books. A long term Ibanez contract carries greater risk if he declines/gets hurt.
Fair enough.
"When the little children start to speak they once said 'Mama' and 'Papa', but with the fans we got they say the first thing, 'Metsie, Metsie, Metsie'." - Casey Stengel
Good sir, please define "no one"
“no one was complaining about this when Moises Alou was signed, even though he was much older, comparable offensively and defensively, and was guaranteed to spend half the season on the DL.”
Maybe some were willing to take the chance, but I was certainly complaining about that predictable waste of money, early often and rightly as it turns out. Particularly that Omar was banking on Alou to play. Ridiculous. And furthermore, it’s likely because of the Alou debacle that resistance to Ibenhad is so prevalent. Also, those funny fielding videos are more impactful than pics of Britney’s cooch. She could come back from those.
Yes, I realize this conversation thread is long over.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
But really if we give up a first rounder for this guy
After giving up a first rounder for K-rod and while a guy like Dunn who:
1. would actually serve some sort of long-term purpose, first base
2. wouldn’t cost a draft pick, although since we’ll probably spend it on a middle reliever I guess I shouldn’t care
3. is probably a better player is on the market
4. might actually come cheaper
then I may have to become a pirates fan or something, not really, but I’ll definitely spend a good hour, or 3, in my bathroom crying.
They won't give up a first-rounder for him
At least, I hope they don’t. If this guy is half as bad as you say he is, he’ll only require a couple of minor leaguers.
"When the little children start to speak they once said 'Mama' and 'Papa', but with the fans we got they say the first thing, 'Metsie, Metsie, Metsie'." - Casey Stengel
hmm a move to keep Beltran happy
Reminds me of the time we signed the Twins secondbaseman to make Johan happy…what was his name again?
In a vacuum
where there’s no other RF available and we wouldn’t have to give up anything but money for Ibanez, this deal wouldn’t be too terrible. He is a pretty decent player. But giving up prospects and draft picks for a decent 36 year old when there are better free agent options who wouldn’t even cost draft picks is incomprehensible. I hope it turns out that Ibanez has compromising photos of Omar and that’s the only reason we’re pursuing this angle, b/c otherwise…
I'm beginning to think most GMs and agents have compromising photos of Omar.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 9, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
i'm thinking "metstailgate" has some compromising photos of Eric
who are you sir?
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
A) Ibanez is primarily an LF, not an RF(the last season he played more than 10 games at RF was 2002)
B) If we were to pursue a free agent RF, I’d rather have Abreu
right, my bad
sometimes I have field dyslexia. One time in high school my coach told me to play leftfield and I ran out to right (I was normally a 3rd basemen). It was pretty embarrassing…
Maybe Ibanez would improve the teenage girl fan-base
with his rippling pecs and biceps of a 25 year-old.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 9, 2008 1:51 PM EST reply actions
Thank you
that just cracked me up.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 9, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Lol I'm a teenage girl
And while I appreciate Omar’s consideration and trying to improve the hotness factor of the team. I’ll gladly take the “donky-like” unathletic masher.
Dude, we have David Freaking Wright.
Our fanbase of teenage girls and young women couldn’t get any bigger unless we signed Justin Timberlake and Usher. Who are both probably better options than Ibanez.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 9, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Omar is a genius
maybe his actions are both lowering Dunn’s price while raising the price of Ibanez’s to the Phillies…I can hope.
definitely
" CITI...It's only money. "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 9, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Can't You Just Let Us Lie to Ourselves?
In his defense he does seem to be starting to get smarter, the problem is we seem to be 5 or so years behind, i.e locking up Castillo so we can have “obp guys” at the top of our line-up.
oh no
“obp”…and so it begins.
" CITI...It's only money. "
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Dec 9, 2008 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
wait
are you using the Castillo move as a good move that indicates he’s getting smarter or a bad move to indicate he’s still way behind?
Basically I mean
On one hand he’s not saying things like “I’m not in the on-base percentage camp. I’m in the athleticism-with-baseball-intelligence camp” anymore. On the other hand, most progressive front offices seem to have move on from just obp like 7 years ago.
I'd take Ibanez for about $1 million to replace Marlon Anderson
Getting Ibanez for little money would be a good move to improve the bench. Of course, the Mets will be signing him for 3 years and $33 million to play LF and then probably trade Daniel Murphy to the Rays for Edwin Jackson.
I hate baseball.
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
Holy Crap
I don’t know if its true but I just heard the Braves are about to get Grienke for Frenchy.
If it wasn’t already apparently the league had been told to help out our rivals I think it’s safe to say it is now.
I read the same rumor over at MetsBlog
Not gonna link (MetsBlog causes my browser at work to crash – no joke), but it mentioned Fancoeur for Greinke. No other names associated with the deal but I would HAVE to think the Royals would want more than that.
If that trade went down in that form, I might start believing that every other team in baseball really really just hates the Mets.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 9, 2008 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Gah
Was Moore involved in the Braves’ drafting of Francouer? Maybe he is still in love with the same tools that he saw back then. That could explain his interest in a completely worthless outfielder.
Francouer OPS+ in his 3 full seasons
87, 103, 72
Completely worthless
Francoeur
His defense is average. His reputation is of a strong arm, which he does have, but it’s not entirely clear what direct (or indirect, in the case of runners not testing him) that has on run prevention. It’s something, but I think it’s probably significantly less valuable than range, simply based on raw opportunity.
His defense was why I didn't think he was completely worthless
But uzr has him as pretty bad this year and apparently +/- did too, PMR had him as decent I think.
Useless addition
It would be more fitting, in the context, for Neyer to commit oibara rather than “hari kari” [sic] (harakiri)
i dated a girl in college
named Hari Kari. It didn’t work out.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
Another rumor
At least one I’m starting here and now. The GM who signs Ibanez must commit ritual seppuku.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 9, 2008 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
OT, but
speaking of overvalued. From Ken Rosenthal:
Could A.J. Burnett’s price rise to $100 million over five years?
It’s not out of the question if the Yankees lose out on CC Sabathia. At that point, Burnett’s leverage with the Yankees would be immense.
Please please please let this happen.
'Oh yes, I know all about that duty-of-a-citizen stuff. It doesn't go. There are exceptions to every rule, and this was one of them. When a man risks his liberty to come and root at a ball-game, you've got to hand it to him. He isn't a crook. He's a fan.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 9, 2008 6:51 PM EST reply actions
According to Metsblog Omar had dinner with Ibanez's agent.
I really just don’t understand how this can possibly make sense in their minds. Give up draft pick for Ibanez, or don’t give up draft pick for Dunn who will fill a long-term hole.
If Omar signs Ibanez
it won’t be because he weighed the alternatives and made a decision – it’ll be because he set his sights on Ibanez from Day One and was unwilling to budge.
I don’t see how an objective baseball mind could weigh the options for LF and come up with Ibanez.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 9, 2008 9:47 PM EST up reply actions
What would be scarier
Him setting his sights on Ibanez and refusing to budge. Or him actually"weighing" the options and deciding Ibanez is the better choice?
Difficult to say
One’s stubborn and stupid; the other’s just plain stupid. Anyone with an understanding of statistics can see that Dunn’s much, much, much, much better. Besides, they’ve already lost their 1st-round pick for Rodriguez; does Omar really want to be without his first 2 draft picks?
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 9, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not defending
Ibanez, but I think there is something to him over Dunn. First of all, attitude. Dunn is known as a slacker, Ibanez as a leader. Second of all, length of contract. Dunn will end up on some 4 year deal, Ibanez likely 2 years. They are a wash defensively. But the biggest difference is that Ibanez hits very very well in the clutch. The Mets had plenty of RBI and walks last year. This is what Dunn gives you. We have ZERO need for this. What we need is someone who can hit with RISP and 2out, with the bases loaded and close and late. These guys fill THAT offensive void:
Manny, Ibanez, Eric Byrnes, and Juan Rivera.
Adam Dunn is an EXCELLENT player, but he doesn’t help us with our problems at all. It’s about puzzle pieces.
by KrodCelebratesAlot on Dec 9, 2008 11:06 PM EST reply actions
He's a leader
and he’s got the body of a 25-year old? Well, I’m convinced. No, I don’t care how much of a “clutch hitter” Ibanez is. How many times during the course of a season does that exact situation come up? I don’t know, but I do know this: Adam Dunn is a flat-out better hitter. There is no arguing that. And his vastly superior plate discipline means he’s much more likely to get on base in that situation (or any other) than Ibanez. Dunn doesn’t just give us walks and RBIs; he gives us a guaranteed 40 home runs. Ibanez doesn’t. He’s also much younger, and can shift over to first base when Delgado leaves in 2010, thus allowing one of the kids to take over. And he wasn’t offered arbitration, which means he also doesn’t cost us another precious draft pick.
As for length of contract, Dunn just turned 29 a month ago. Ibanez is 36 years, and turns 37 in June. Giving Dunn a 4-year deal means we get his prime years; giving Ibanez anything means we get his precipitous decline phase.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 9, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
RISP 2 Outs
Dunn: .208/.468/.623
Ibanez: .324/.407/.479
Manny: .318/.505.576
Byrnes: .207/.361/.448
Rivera: .240/.296/.760
Sample size.
Who's world is it? It's yours.
Personally
I’ll take unathletic donkey who ops’s over 1.000 in those situations.. and doesn’t have dreads.
Mmm
That should put to bed the myth about Dunn not being “clutch”. Get the baseball-hating mashing-machine!
It bothers me to read fans
speculating on Dunn’s attitude or laziness. I feel like these “baseball people” who declare that Dunn is lazy are basing it off of the fact that he’s not a fast runner and stinks in the OF, rather than actually observing his work ethic and attitude on a daily basis.
Ken Davidoff had a great column Sunday where he asked 3 “baseball people” what they thought of Dunn, and all 3 gave wildly different answers. It’s just not worth it to use as a factor against someone.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 10, 2008 8:25 AM EST up reply actions
in any case
I’d take the lazy slacker who mashes the ball (Babe Ruth) over the hard worker who doesn’t (David Eckstein).
I'm with you 100%
If Dunn hits 40 homers and OPS’s .900 while supposedly being “lazy”, I’d love to see what he can do if he gave a damn
by James Kannengieser on Dec 10, 2008 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
To be fair
Ruth worked really hard to maintain his body. The drinking beer, eating hot dogs rolling out of bed then smacking the shit out of baseballs is somewhat of a romanticized myth.
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