New York Mets @ Chicago Cubs GameThread, Apr 22, 2008 2:20 PM EDT

Open Thread - Game #19: Mets vs. Cubs (04/22/2008)

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 1:20 PM EDT in Game Chatters Comment 185 comments

New York Mets at Chicago Cubs, Apr 22, 2008 2:20 PM EDT

Lineup

04/22/08 2:20 PM EDT

New York Mets	Chicago Cubs
Jose Reyes - SS	Reed Johnson - LF
Angel Pagan - RF	Felix Pie - CF
David Wright - 3B	Derrek Lee - 1B
Carlos Beltran - CF	Aramis Ramirez - 3B
Carlos Delgado - 1B	Kosuke Fukudome - RF
Damion Easley - 2B	Mark DeRosa - 2B
Brady Clark - LF	Ronny Cedeno - SS
Raul Casanova - C	Henry Blanco - C
Nelson Figueroa - P	Ted Lilly - P

	W-L	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	BS	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	ERA	WHIP
2008 - Nelson Figueroa	1-0	4	2	0	0	0	0	15.0	7	6	6	1	5	14	3.60	.80

	W-L	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	BS	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	ERA	WHIP
2008 - Ted Lilly	0-3	4	4	0	0	0	0	18.2	25	19	19	4	7	14	9.16	1.71

If Nellie Figueroa is living a dream, watching two-thirds of the Mets' lineup flail away uselessly against all comers is my personal nightmare. The boys in blue look to split their mini-series with the Cubs.

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Comments

Lineup

Ugh. Get well soon, Moises.

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 1:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

And King Hippo

And if we could get a real 2B, that would be nice too.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I heard

Atlanta picked up some decent young 2B off of waivers. Can’t remember his name. Anyone know where we could get a guy like that?

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotay

Yes, that kid with the .250 BA, .333 SLG, 0 HR, and 6 SO’s in 12 AB’s. Too bad we don’t have him, or we’d be undefeated now.

Let's Go Mets!

by twassel on Apr 22, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

12 ABs

Sample size, sample size, sample size. In any case, Gotay would certainly be more cost effective than Luis “Proven Veteran” Castillo.

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you should just let him go already

I’m not saying that you’re wrong. Just that you need to let him go. You’re bordering on stalking.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Apr 22, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

nobody

is stalking Gotay. Just pointing out he can help us. We’re entitled to evaluate personnel decisions.

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

evaluate personnel decisions

Thats one thing. Constantly dragging a guy into conversations who hasn’t been a member of the team in a month, is obsessing. You know, like what you do with Milledge.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Apr 22, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

obessing

is what fans do. And who brought up Milledge recently other than you. Find another strawman to construct. AMS was pointing out the team could use Gotay.

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Strawman

Wish he were still in the lineup.

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

lol

he could hold right field for sure

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget we gave Marlon a 2 year deal...

by SQUAD on Apr 22, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

A little touchy aren’t we? It’s o.k. to admit a man crush.

And yes he was pointing out the possible uses for Gotay, like he does every day.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Apr 22, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the bats will wake up

we will hammer ted lilly. you watch.

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sample size

OK, lets talk sample size. How many career AB’s does Gotay
have? 636. His lifetime stats are .258/.314/.374. Castillo in 5535 ABs is .293/.368/.357. In the last 3 years before 2008, Castillo is hitting .299. Give it some time.

Let's Go Mets!

by twassel on Apr 22, 2008 2:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Castillo

Castillo is getting older (read: slower) and already has virtually no power. It was a mistake to give him a long-term contract at his age.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gotaty has solid enough minor league numbers

.276/.354/..424

Castillo’s career numbers are .293/.368/.357

I agree, Castillo is probably better than Gotay now. But he isn’t the type of player who is likely to age well. He has no power and has to rely on his speed to beat out ground balls. As his knees deteriorate, he’ll lose that speed and decline.

I liked the Castillo trade last year because I thought the Mets would let him go and grab some compensatory draft picks. But they signed him to a long term contract instead. And gave away a solid, young player who they could have kept at a fraction of the cost.

Gotay is nothing special, but I’d rather have him than Castillo if it means the Mets would use the money they’d save to re-sign Ollie Perez or grab Mark Teixeira this offseason.

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

People need to understand that a guy doesn’t have to have a one million VORP to be useful.

by SQUAD on Apr 22, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Figaroa is a beast

mow them down big man

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Delgado

Castillo I have faith will turn things around, even if he looks listless. Delgado though - come on - time to bite a bullet. Injuries took their toll. We need to work on replacing Delgado. We have to go for it all this year, and we can’t let money keep Delgado in the lineup. We can upgrade offensively AND defensively.

Who are the contenders?

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

On what basis?

What makes you believe Castillo will turn things around?

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'd bet that Delgado

ends up being less of a problem than 600 OPS Castillo

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

there's going to be no available

we can get without trading Fernando Martinez

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Ted Lily...

...pitches a no hitter, I will barf.

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

if this turns out to be a pubic hair in my lemonade

i will also barf

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yay!

You jinxed Lilly’s no-hitter!

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Money!

A $150 million dollar team with a lineup featuring Casanova, Easley, Clark, Figueroa and Pagan. Weird. :-)

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

No kidding.

Pretty sad, right?

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nails!

I know it’s Ronny Cedeno, but that was a nice K.

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

WOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

TAKE THAT BLANCO! Nice escape act! Too bad Heilman couldn’t et that last out last night. :-/

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That's right

Nelson should step up and hit a homer this inning.

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That is also good...

...because if the Cubs had a big inning, I would have started my “Fire Willie” chant. I swear. I was gonna change my screen name and everything.

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Careful

If you change your screen name you could screw up your Swag stats.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Apr 22, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's OK

I don’t even understand how the points are allocated.

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Over/Under

Runs this lineup scores today: 1.5

I have a tough time coming up with lineup-based questions because the Mets have anything but a set batting order at this point.

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Willie's hands are tied...

He’s got Castillo. They signed him. And I think he’ll turn it around…I’ve been impressed with his speed this year. Delgado, though, t’s time to swallow hard on that one. Get a replacement in. It’s 1B, it’s not like yer trying to find a good 2B. Execute a trade. Move a player. Do something! He’s an automatic out with limited range defensively and no speed on the basepaths.

A ZERO TOOL PLAYER.

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 3:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

good to see that you've found a new hobby horse to ride

at least for today…

We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!

by kingcritical on Apr 22, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you think he realized he's wrong about Beltran?

I’m not holding my breath.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Have you seen the light yet?

Beltran. Needs a single. Two nights ago. Big spot. Didn’t get it done. Add it to the pile. Take a look at your big time players…they get it done from time to time. Our guy never does.

Open your eyes. What has Beltran done this season to prove me wrong?

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beltran has...

1. Played consistently great defense in CF
2. Drawn a ton of walks
3. Stolen a couple of bases

Of course, you believe he’s “not clutch” because he “didn’t get a single in a big spot”. Never mind the fact that he’s been an awesome hitter in the playoffs the two times he’s been there. Maybe it doesn’t count because the team didn’t win? I don’t know what your excuse is for not giving him any credit for that.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

beltran is a stud

the fact that i have his replica jersey is proof enough

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding me?

Josh, read what I write. I never said he was bad defensively. I never made a single comment about the ability to walk or steal. He’s a multi-talented player, weak in NO category.

Except that, in big spots, and even many easy RBI spots, he consistently fails to produce. Look at all the games this year. Find all the situations where he comes up with men in scoring position with less than 2 out. He makes it routine to strikeout or pop up. Look at late inning AB’s with the Mets behind. He fails to produce.

We pay money to goo dplayers. We pay BIG MONEY for Beltran. He is measured differently!

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yea

he just selfishly took a walk. what a bastard.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm

I guess his inability to produce in RBI situations explains why he’s driven in 116 and 112 runs in the last two seasons.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

those are just in unclutch situations, obviously

DUH.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

beltran as unlutch is a myth

look up his WPA from fangrpahs. last year he was the 4th most ‘clutch’ player on the team. this beltran is a choke artist arguments are ridiculous. new topic please.

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beltran's not the only unclutch player in New York

Did you see when A-Rod totally ignored Abreu’s high five the other night? So unclutch!!!

(Courtesy FJM)

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

get a replacement from where?

Castillo is more usuless than Delgado. Delgago BABIP suggest he’s due for some hits. Castillo can’t even get balls out the infield from the left side and his a good bet to be under 700 OPS. he’s hot garbage

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

1B

Castillo has defensive skill and speed that can help him get out of the rut. Delgado has deteriorating skills. The slow bat. The hip. The speed. Defensive liability. 2007. That’s the difference.

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Castillo

Is not as fast as he used to be and also has injury issues.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

so Castillo skills aren't detriorating

and you still haven’t answered the question of who replaces Delgado. Who still was a 20-90 guy last year in diminished state.

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

D WRIGHT

IS GOING DEEP

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In the count?

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

and wright would have gone deep but the cubs are afraid to pitch to wright, as they should be.

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unclutch Walk

Come on Beltran! Quit clogging the bases!

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Clutch

It’s the 4th inning of a 0-0 game.I expected better. Though, man on 2nd with less than 2 out, I also expected popup. Here comes Delgado. :-/

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Momentum is weird

Mets were getting a perfect game pitched against them for the last combined 6.2 innings. Now, three runners in a row.

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 3:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

momentum in baseball?

eh?

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Delgado up with the bases juiced

What type of double-play with he hit into:

a) 6-4-3
b) 4-6-3
c) 3-6-3
d) 1-4-3
e) Some other type of double-play

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

*will he hit into

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He tried to hit into an unassisted DP

Dub didn’t linger off second enough to make it happen.

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gaw!

Too bad the Cubs couldn’t find a runne rhanging off the base there. Delgado is a sink hole right now. Ortiz got a day off at least…why can’t we get a sub in? ANYONE!

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beltran

In September last year when everybody else except maybe Wright was mailing it in, he had huge numbers. That and his playoff numbers prove that he is clutch. And I guess this is one of the weeks where Zablanc admits he wants Beltran off the team instead of denying it when he is pressed on the lack of support for his arguments.

by Endys Game on Apr 22, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Didn't want to win enough

Beltran and Wright don’t know how to win. If they did the Mets would have made the playoffs last year. Duh.

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take you up on your offer..

I am researching his big AB’s right now. We’ll see. Maybe you’re right about September, maybe not. I am not trying to prove some idealogical point, I am just pointing out what I’ve seen. Give me 10 mins.

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

what good is anecdotal evidence

when you have empirical evidence?

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

JUST LOOK UP WPA

NO NEED TO DO LOTS OF RESEARCH – HERE IS LAST YEARS ‘CLUTCH’ NUMBERS

http://www.fangraphs.com/winss.aspx?team=Mets&;season=2007

see? all done – beltran is plenty clutch.

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

dude

the only clutch stat is avg w/ risp (and 2 outs, perhaps). get with the program.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

jesus christ

delgado. at least it wasn’t a GIDP i guess.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

sighs

1.5 runs scored: I’m taking the under.

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

0.5 runs scored

Over or under?

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Off-Topic

But Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles was picked up for Season 2.

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i wish robocop would get a series

involving frank miller of course

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Nice play, Pagan. That was a bungling of epic proportions.

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

what the hell was that pagan

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

WTF

Is Ronnie Cedeno killing us this series or is it my imagination?

bangs head against desk

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

THATS IT

BACK TO SPRING TRAINING DAMN IT

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

delgado

get the fuck off the field. can we sign frank thomas and release this dope?

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Uhhhh...

Because signing a guy who hasn’t played in the field since 2004 is going to improve our defense?

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And... off.

No need to get fired for watching this debacle.

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

lucky hit

what a little turd for a hit with bases loaded

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

delgado

Another quality inning of baseball by Carlos. This guy is truly killing us. I think he’s looked ok at the plate and might come around, but if this is the defense he’s going to provide he has to go. Embarrassing.

by whynot on Apr 22, 2008 3:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

sucks for figgy

those last 2 are earned runs because of delgado’s fat ass

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So we should sign Frank Thomas instead?

Who hasn’t played in the field since 2004?

Seriously, have you SEEN how many throwing errors Delgado has saved Wright and Reyes over the last couple of years?

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

plus Frank was a notriously horrible fielder when he did play first

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure we can close the book

on the Mets signing Big Hurt. He has played 38 games at 1B since 2001, which is roughly five games per season. Delgado plays every day and his defense is pretty lousy; do you really want Frank Thomas out there?

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

awesome. he can take 1 step off the bag and grab a throw and tag a runner. that’s the extent of his range. have you SEEN how many ground balls get through to either side of him?

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A: All of them?

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying Delgado is a great fielder

But he does at least bring something useful to the table, which is more than you could say about Frank Thomas’ ability to play defense.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

you're right

thomas would be a shitty choice. i’m just throwing names out there. last year i tried to be patient with delgado because i thought he wasn’t at 100%, but it’s getting frustrating, y’know?

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Delgado/Thomas platoon

Not sure if Thomas would go for it, but our offense would improve against lefties.

Thomas hit .336/.431/.631 against lefties last year.

Delgado hit .267/.318/.386 against last year.

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think he wants to play every day

but i guess if he gets desperate. the thought of those two playing defense is kinda scary though.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

woo hoo

rally time baby!

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

a productive out!

way to go casanova! what gritty hustle youve got!

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

BOO that walk reyes!

how is that going to “ignite” the offense?

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Igniting pop-ups

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ass

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Goddammit

This offense is so bad right now

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

does fan graphs

have stats for how many popups each team has? this is purely anecdotal but i’ve never seen a team hit so many popups.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think they have it by player but not by team

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i see FB% but i don't see any breakdown past that

any ideas?

also-i apologize for speaking rudely to you-just so frustrated by delgado

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

IF/FB%

Infield flies per fly ball. Not a bad barometer of pop-up-itude.

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

this lineup is too Alou dependent

We’re a bat that we can count on short

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

way to have the bullpen mounds in play, wrigley

they should demolish that relic and build a proper stadium. what a joke.

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 3:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the modern pac bell has bullpens in play

I think Wrigley is landmarked it’s not going anywhere

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

at least the bullpens server

a purpose unlike that stupid hill in Houston

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

OK, here ya's go...

My assessment:

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2008/4/22/447391/carlos-beltran-clutch-in-s

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 3:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not bad

So Beltran did something good in 5 out of 12 chances (41.6%). I’d call that pretty good.

Let's Go Mets!

by twassel on Apr 22, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

For the money you and I are paying...

...he should have been good in at least 80% of the times.

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why just 80%?

why not say 100%, since youre asking for something that no one in history has ever come close to doing?

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, it's more than just that...

...Carlos should have also hit homers in the first inning in every game. He also should get me a hot dog when I want it.

(I’m having fun with this. Carlos is not the greatest CF/clean-up hitter in the world, but I like having him on the team.)

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

for the amount of good hes doing us

someone like brady clark SHOULD get fans hot dogs in between innings.

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's some good thinkin'!

Maybe there should be a special ticket plan where you can get hot dogs delivered by un-clutch and below-replacement-level players. I’d sign up for that!

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wrong

Only in Steinbrennerland does the amount of money have anything to do with success rate. That’s absurd.

Let's Go Mets!

by twassel on Apr 22, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Uhh, yea

I’d call that pretty damned good. Picking up a walk or a hit in more than 40% of the somewhat arbitrarily-chosen examples is outstanding, IMO.

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even better

Actually, there were at least a couple of other good games by Beltran last September.

Look more closely. In the September 1 game, Beltran led off a scoreless game in the second inning with a hit, and came around to score. In the 7th, he led off a tight 3-1 game with a HR. In the 9th, he led off with a triple and scored. Good game against a division opponent. Yes, the Mets "won comfortably", but he played a big role in it.

He missed the 9/7 game, won by the Mets, in which he drove in the go ahead run in the third inning, and hit a homer to extend the lead in the fifth.

On 9/9 Beltran drove in the first two runs, and doubled and scored the third run, in a 4-1 win in Pedro’s first start.

I can go through the rest of the games, but I think somebody’s definition of "clutch" is way too arbitrary.

Let's Go Mets!

by twassel on Apr 22, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd say not terrible.

He didn’t get too many glaring chances. He missed on two big ones, but hit on one as well. it was earlier last year I started with the “WILL SOMEONE TEACH BELTRAN HOW TO GET A GOD DAMNED RBI!” signature—I certainly didn’t start it in September.

As I said, I love Carlos. He has immense talent. But, we can’t win if we locked up 20+ million for the clutch performance we’re getting. That money needs to be reserved for the big guys you can rely on. It might have more to do with NY pressure—but I think there’s an unfair reliance on his Houston playoff performance of years ago, and we’re seeing more of what Beltran really is. A really, really good player who’s not meant to be “The Franchise.”

David Wright is turning into this kind of player. Though, going through Wright’s last year, he wasn’t quite where he is now. There’s something different about him this year now. Much improved.

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But...

“That money needs to be reserved for the big guys you can rely on. It might have more to do with NY pressure—but I think there’s an unfair reliance on his Houston playoff performance of years ago, and we’re seeing more of what Beltran really is. A really, really good player who’s not meant to be "The Franchise."”

In the 2006 NLCS for the Mets Beltran was .296/.387/.667 with 3 homers in 7 games. I’m sure you think it’s his fault that we lost because he made the last out of game 7 but we wouldn’t have been in that situation against a crappy team if Wright and Lo Duca and Endy and Valentin and Trachsel and Wagner hadn’t been cruddy that series.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

money needs to be reserved for who?

beltran was the best young FA available when we signed him and he’s produced numbers in line with what you’d expect from his career from that time. your assigning of achievement requirements based on salary seems arbitrary. i dont think the system of payroll management you’re looking for is possible in the major leagues.

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bases loaded

For Brady Clark.

by Eric Simon on Apr 22, 2008 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's go Brady!

get some kind of non-out, dammit!

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 4:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OK

A non-out for Brady. The force is an out, I guess. At least there is a runner that crossed home plate. Now it’s Cassanove time!

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One run in

Clark force out, one run scores. Two out.

Let's Go Mets!

by twassel on Apr 22, 2008 4:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Meh

At least we’re on the board.

by ams258 on Apr 22, 2008 4:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

this team is offensively challenged

especially the pitiful right-side of the infield. Good chance that Delgado and Castillo are way past real offensive productivity. They’re also too left-handed and depend on a frail middle-aged guy to give them balance.

Save America. Impeach Bush

by elifriedman on Apr 22, 2008 4:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

that about sums it up

by DoctorK16 on Apr 22, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good day to face the Mets

Lily managed to lower his ERA to 7.30. Too bad (for Lily) the Mets won’t play the Cubs again until September.

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 4:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

this game is a big piece of crap so far

i cant think of one thing anyone did well so far

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

figgy pitched well

and got screwed by some bad D

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

true

he’s yet to turn in a big stinker, much to the shock of all of major league baseball. im on figgy’s side, no doubt.

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

as long as he keeps throwing strikes

and people don’t start sitting on that first pitch get me over breaking ball (yikes) he should be okay

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Delgado got a hit n/t

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey-ooo!

It’s Show-Time!

by IanB in MD on Apr 22, 2008 4:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's see if Willie is smart enough to take out Show after Pie's AB

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 4:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

clearly

willie has a laptop with this game thread open

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe so

Now if Smith can just do his job…

fingers crossed

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

cassanova

putting years of minor league experience into use

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Apr 22, 2008 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ZaBlanc

If you had just stated that Wright was or would be more of a “franchise” player i.e better player than Beltran in the long run, I doubt anyone, certainly not me, would have argued with you. The problem is you went much further than that.
and your list is surely incomplete, by your own admission given Beltran’s strong overall numbers in Sept last year, I would like to see more of his results. Still 41.6 % rate is pretty damn good. and you of course don’t take into account the plays he made in the outfield.

My only problem with Beltran is that he seemed to be unwilling to play hurt at times but I think he has overcome that flaw in the last half a year or so.

by Endys Game on Apr 22, 2008 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

41.6...

Not sure what the number means. I’d say that’s trying to turn everything into a stat. We’re talking about individual situations. Some of the situations I posted were not NEARLY as serious as others. I refrain from giving a grade. I just posted situations.

As for D, well yeah, I can’t measure that from the stats and I also don’t argue it. His D is alllllllways solid. My argument is the bad AB’s.

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

show adds to the legend

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Apr 22, 2008 4:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

beltran

he made that look like it wasn’t that difficult…overpaid POS. we need some gritty guys who would’ve dove (?) for that, like darin erstad.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I have been

a noted critic of Beltran and think he’s somewhat overrated by some of the bloggers here. However, he is a very solid player, a true 5-tooler. He is not expensive given the current pay structure in baseball. I’m not complaining about him anymore. I’m happy that he does what he’s been doing. He’s not a franchise player, but he’s an excellent No. 2 guy.

Save America. Impeach Bush

by elifriedman on Apr 22, 2008 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

But he’s the highest paid position player on the team, so he’s the #1 guy.

David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)

by ZaBlanc on Apr 22, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that makes no sense

salary is based not only on performance but indirectly on years of service. If Wright was a free-agent eligible player he would make more than Beltran. So would Reyes. You take capitalism to its illogical extreme

Save America. Impeach Bush

by elifriedman on Apr 22, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

once again tho

i think youre looking for a kind of payroll accountability that doesnt exist in the majors. beltran got paid what he deserved to get paid based on the market. if dwrights contract somehow expired at the end of this season, he would be getting more for season than beltran. but such is the system.

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think gagne just blew another save

haha…wow.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

he didn't blow

any against Mets. Lily has been terrible all year and Howry was struggling. Looks like bad pitchers get well against Mets

Save America. Impeach Bush

by elifriedman on Apr 22, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a listless nothing performance for the mets and

now we have to listen to doug glanvile

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Apr 22, 2008 4:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

fukodome is like a good kaz matsui

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Apr 22, 2008 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

or a regular Ichiro Suzuki

Save America. Impeach Bush

by elifriedman on Apr 22, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

doug glanville

NOT hating on sabermetrics. former player who appreciates that sort of thing? amazing.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Glanville went to Penn

Must be at least somewhat intelligent.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or his parents are just really rich

and couldnt get him into harvard yale or princeton

by kendynamo on Apr 22, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pretty sure I could introduce you to some Penn students who’d falsify that. But I don’t disagree, Glanville is definitely a pretty smart guy as ballplayers go.

by anonymous on Apr 22, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well, at the very least

he doesn’t sound like an idiot when he talks. i didn’t hear 100 “you knows” from him.

by gogomets on Apr 22, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh

True, they’re not all geniuses. But a guy with the talent to be a major league baseball player doesn’t just randomly wind up at Penn rather than UCLA or something.

by JoshNY on Apr 22, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs