Open Thread - Game #6: Mets vs. Phillies (04/08/2008) on SNY
by Eric Simon on Apr 8, 2008 12:00 PM EDT
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PrintPhiladelphia Phillies at New York Mets, Apr 8, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
Mets and Phillies. Shea's final home opener. Perez versus Moyer. Pomp. Circumstance. Cliché. Hyperbole. All of these things converge violently in Queens this afternoon.
In reality it's just another game in a long regular season, but every game *does* count, and the emotional utility at stake today seemingly makes this one worth a bit more. There was some trash talking during the preseason, and neither team is off to a particularly good start. The Mets are 2-3, having dropped a rain-shortened two-game series in Atlanta over the weekend. The Phillies are 3-4, an improvement over some of their recent early Aprils, and are coming off a four-game split in Cincinnati.
Jamie Moyer and Oliver Perez are two lefties of widely divergent age, repertoire and skillset. Perez has youth, power and stuff on his side. Moyer has experience, guile and incontinence going for him. Perez was terrific last week against the Marlins, and his fastball/slider combination should be a good match for the Phillies' power lefties in Ryan Howard and Chase Utley. Moyer had a really nice stretch in the late-nineties to early-aughts, but his career ERA is just 5% better than average and even worse than that of late. The Mets wield a lefty-heavy lineup, but they're facing neither Sandy Koufax nor Randy Johnson, so that should be less of a problem.
It's the beginning of the end for Shea Stadium, a point made all too obvious by the specter of Citi Field rising gloriously behind Shea's outfield wall. There is still plenty left to accomplish in this old ballpark, so let's start things off on a good note. By whipping the Phils.
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Well, what do you know?
It is crapping out right now. I get the radio, but no tee-vee.
But, on the plus side, I get to hear the clip of Murph calling the last out of the 86 Series, and the Division clinching game in 06, which I attended. Ahhhh...memories.
it's crapping out for me too
just not working at all. no feed at all
it amazes me how little they care
Yeah
But last year it was always great. I watched tons at work and home. I am very disappointed (it's the Selig-era, after all. What else would I be?)
Oliver...
Looks sharp. One batter? Yes. Total overreaction? Possibly. But you can see the focus and he is snapping through his curve.
Also, great shot of some drunk businessman with a Bud Light in one hand standing in the aisle and getting all over Jimmy Rollins for his nubber.
Good to be back at Shea!
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 1:13 PM EDT reply actions
But the pitch gets away from Ollie
I sure hope the bloop and hit batsman does mess with Perez too much. He is pretty much a human slot-machine.
Radio?
Is that an option? Have never tried, but can you find most MLB games on the radio online or is it Sirius only?
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
How is it...
That someone hasn't shanked Burrell yet?
Fantastic bender to buckle his knees by Oliver. Great pitch to end the inning.
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 1:20 PM EDT reply actions
Arms
Get MLB Tv arms. best 90 Bucks you'll spend all year.
by Armed N Dangerous on Apr 8, 2008 1:21 PM EDT reply actions
No
It's worked well 99% of the year for me. (out of state of course)
by Armed N Dangerous on Apr 8, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, another great point from Darling
Going to be very interesting to see how the wind affects play this year. Will the new stadium funnel or block the wind? Will it swirl more? Is this going to keep scores lower and numbers down? Or will it have absolutely no impact on the game and the wind/weather will be the usual, unpredictable Shea?
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 1:22 PM EDT reply actions
Reyes
Cannot take a fucking pitch! For those watching, how far inside was the first pitch he fouled off?
Why...
Should he be taking a pitch? He's not the leadoff man? Oh, wait...
And judging by some of those pitches called balls to Castillo this could be a L-O-N-G afternoon for Moyer.
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Leadoff man or not
He should be swinging at strikes, not balls.
Gameday says
that Feliz grounded into an unassisted double play to Carlos Delgado; Jason Werth out at second. How did that happen?
Feliz...
Hit a sharp one-hopper right at Delgado, who grabbed the ball and touched first. Werth just froze because he couldn't tell if it were a line drive or not. He just knew he was screwed. Delgado tagged him. Game and set.
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
feliz rapped it to delgado
he stepped on first then tagged Werth, who'd only taken about two steps away from the bag
Actually,
I thought that was a great call, just poor execution. If he had put that down at all it would have been an easy baserunner.
And there's no way anyone called for that. It was all Church.
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
HBP's
One for each side? Coincidence? Escalation? Bad blood? I can't see the game--anyone have a feeling?
Let's Go Mets!
definitely
A coincidence. Both were flukes and neither did anything more than graze the elbow.
No, there is some intensity on the field but it's all focused. Both teams know this first game is a bit more important than what they've played up to this point.
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Argh.
Last year it was always exciting when he was up to bat. This year his at bats come with more apprehension than anticipation.
Trifecta.
Three HBP's.
Again, all accidental. But all we need is for Moyer to come out and "accidentally" plunk Reyes and this one could get ugly, quick.
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 1:59 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, it does make me wonder
if you're going to purposely hit batters, you probably don't get Moyer to do it, right?
nothing.
absolutely weak. like bumping into someone coming off a train or elevator. Only instead of excuse me, you wrap your arms around the person and fall on the ground.
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
6 on a scale of 1 to 10
The RF caught the CF in a bear hug they both went down but stayed in the game
Baseball players are pussies
Exhibit A: the attention being given Werth and Victorino right now.
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 2:09 PM EDT reply actions
I think they are concussion-crazy?
These days there's lots of attention being given to concussions- with good reason, as several players have had to retire from them or just never really recover.
Of course the collision may not have had anything to do with heads, but...
so that makes them pussies
because the trainers want to make sure they haven't had a concussion like Church or even worse like Cameron a couple years back
Moyer Blows
How many warning track bombs has Moyer given up? He' not even a poor man's poor man's Tom Glavine at this point.. Mets have just been unlucky so far.
by Armed N Dangerous on Apr 8, 2008 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
Delgado
Recognizing the tiny sample size, since he's now hitting .409 with a 1.049 OPS, can the "Delgado is done" people be quiet for a few days?
Let's Go Mets!
if he can do it against
anyone other than moyer, then yes, i'll gladly shut my trap. the two of them are both on the senior circuit at this point. baseball in slow motion.
I am
One of those people. I still believe that he is well past his prime and will do more harm than good on our team this year.
But you know what, I want nothing more than for him to prove me wrong and put up .275-36-100 this year.
by Doc's Sports Picks Guru on Apr 8, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Nicely Done
He walked a fine line that inning, but he's thru 5 with one 75 pitches. That's pretty good. If Ollie can keep his head, he might pitch in the 7th inning. I'd be OK with that.
Oh crap is right.
Good thing Willie pulled him. There are only so many near-misses Ollie can overcome.
I don't mind Joe Smith pitching here
but this is the weakest part of Willie's game.
Close game in the 6th or 7th, he NEVER uses a good reliever. He feels like he has to use the Sosas and Figeueroas of the world because it's not the 8th or 9th inning yet. REGARDLESS OF THE DAMN SCORE OR SITUATION
yet those good relievers
tend to have a ton of appearances, the problem last year is we didn't have enough good relievers
It's because he uses every pitcher every single game.
What's the over/under on pitchers used this game?
retire 17
Really, now
If he uses his bullpen, Willie gets criticized.
If he leaves the starter in, Willie gets criticized.
If he tries to expand relievers' situations (like let a LOOGY pitch to a righty, ever), Willie gets criticized.
If he brings in his best relievers too early Willie gets criticized.
If he saves them until too late, Willie gets criticized.
Willie's been pushing all the right buttons--get used to it.
Let's Go Mets!
Different people have different criticisms.
Get used to it.
I actually had no problem with him letting Sosa face Kelly Johnson or letting Feliciano face a RH. My issues with the way he handles the pen is when he gets matchup crazy. The only pitcher who should be restricted is Schoenweiss, because he has been given enough chances to show he can face RH hitters.
retire 17
Sosa
has problems with lefties
Feliciano is good vs. both.
learn it, love it, know it
matchups are good
Right,
but let's not manage by the spreadsheet.
If the team thinks Sosa has a chance to be a setup man he should be given a shot.
retire 17
that doesn't make any sense
what does "have a chance to be a setup man" mean?
dude sucks against lefties.
also, i think microsoft excel would do a fine job of running the team
What is so hard to understand.
If they think he could become a setup man, let him have a shot to pitch against lefties as well as righties.
I'll ask again. Do you have the breakdown of those numbers as a starter vs. as a reliever?
retire 17
And that's only regarding the bullpen.
Let me add: Wagner should not pitch more than an inning if it can be helped and it wouldn't be the worst thing to let some guys pitch multiple innings in relief, rather than having a conga line from the bullpen to the mound.
As for everything else, I generally think Willie is a very poor X's and O's manager.
retire 17
Sosa against Johnson?
You were really okay with that? Take a look at Sosa's career numbers against lefties - I'm not sure how comfortable you'll feel with that type of matchup in the future.
Well aware
of his numbers. But again, are those numbers broken down by starter vs. reliever? Again, if they think he can set up, he needs to be put in those situations.
retire 17
what about
my mainest man, pedro feliciano. he's been totally MIA.
willie probably has a gotay for him
(that's my coinage)
Meltdown incoming
"It's Father's Day today at Shea, so to all you fathers out there, Happy Birthday." -- Ralph Kiner
All I see is a question mark instead of a picture.
But it's kind of funny because it could be a bunch of things: Feliciano, a brain, a clue, etc...
retire 17
DFJBNSJOBNDoknsdkdsnofdns
fdjnsdfjdfnsdlfds
fFUCKKKKKKK!!!
by Armed N Dangerous on Apr 8, 2008 3:24 PM EDT reply actions
Really no place to go for Delgado on that play. I hope Utley dies by the way.
by Armed N Dangerous on Apr 8, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions
Anyone watching on tv?
If so, can you describe Delgado's error and how the runs scored?
Thanks!
Question
How come the Mets hit Utley so much today? I would have liked it if they pluked Rollins instead.
He stands an inch off the plate and lets the ball hit him
and he runs outside the baseline to get hit by the fielders
Scho got his chance...
I just think he can't handle the NY pressure anymore. Every time he goes out there his mindset is probably, "I hope I don't fail again." He needs a change of scenery.
David Wright MVP Watch: .462/1/6! (through 3 games)
His ERA at Shea sucks
Howie said it was something like 6.50 at Shea, and around 3 on the road. They should trade him to the Phillies.
Ams
Howard hits ground ball 6 feet from first base. Delgado chucks to 2nd to start the Dp. Ball hits Utley in right shoulder and Rollins and Utley score as ball rolls away.
by Armed N Dangerous on Apr 8, 2008 3:28 PM EDT reply actions
Wow
Talk about the Phillies getting every break and the Mets not getting a single break.
by Armed N Dangerous on Apr 8, 2008 3:43 PM EDT reply actions
Fundamentals get us nowhere...
Beltranitis. We need something clutch. We'll go nowhere this year if we can't show what we lacked last year but had in 2006: GUTS.
it's been lacking this year.
Jesus Easley.
David Wright MVP Watch: .462/1/6! (through 3 games)
Amazing
Fastest guy on the planet gets on first and you don't even give him a chance to do what the Phils fear.
David Wright MVP Watch: .462/1/6! (through 3 games)
There ya go.
Phillies show the fundamentals. Braves always have. I am getting a little disprited. Someone cheer me up. Walk/Bunt/Single. That's how it's done. The Mets don't look like contenders.
Someone tell me to shut up.
David Wright MVP Watch: .462/1/6! (through 3 games)
Much less painful to read the box score tomorrow morning than to watch the train wreck take place live.
by Armed N Dangerous on Apr 8, 2008 3:57 PM EDT reply actions
Nuts to this game.
If I thought the Mets hitters would get more than one hit in the next two innings, I'd keep paying attention.
Take it to Church, Ryan! **
** Credit: Eric Simon
"It's Father's Day today at Shea, so to all you fathers out there, Happy Birthday." -- Ralph Kiner
I want everyone to get up out of your seats!
I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell....
at the park
Well, I just got back in front of a computer after this last Shea opener -- and I want to second all the apoplectic remarks above about Willie's bullpen managing just on general principle, but really, this loss just felt like the death of a thousand cuts. I don't think there was any single decision that was clearly the wrong one, just a lot of little bad breaks and a key fielding error. There are remarks above about "warning track bombs" with which I would agree completely -- a lot of those balls, Beltran's in particular, looked off the bat to be ticketed for the entrance to Citi Field. I kept looking up every inning and being a little surprised at Moyer's low pitch count, given how well many of the Mets hitters seemed to be seeing his pitches (save the thoroughly execrable performance from Reyes, who seems to have completely lost the strike zone and his selectivity).
Even the bullpen whipping boy, Schoeneweis, handled things almost acceptably; I can certainly fault him for putting on the early baserunners from the bottom of the Phillie order, but he really handled both Utley and Howard. Heilman's inning was not pretty at all, but the whole way through it felt like a winnable game given a few better breaks and a few (okay, a lot) more patient at-bats in key spots. Just a disappointing day.
I should say too that this was both the smallest and the most apathetic crowd I've ever seen at opening day at Shea. There was remarkably little rooting for anything besides the sporadic fistfights with Philly fans; a lot of people didn't really seem to care about the game at all. I hope these shitty crowds go away when Citi Field opens.
huh?
Schoeneweis "handled" Utley? He hit him with the first pitch he threw.
As someone who was part of the apathetic crowd, maybe part of the apathy was due to the poor handling of the crowd coming into the game by the stadium staff. I was off the train at 12:45 and it took close to 45 minutes to get up to my seats because they had nowhere near the right number of security staff to check people coming into the game. It's almost like they're trying to make the Shea experience less pleasant so we'll be happy to pay the almost-certainly-higher prices at the new stadium.
Utley
Ha. Yes, you're right, I have no idea what I was thinking there. I must have just been thinking of the feeble grounder he got from Howard. Looking back over the box score I think my semi-almost-positive impression of Schoeneweis's performance was a little on the wishful side, perhaps because Sosa just afterward surprised me by limiting the damage rather than adding to it.
The security wait was terrible for me, too, and I was especially annoyed that there wasn't anyone helping the crowds form into lines rather than a mob scene at some of the gates. Where I went in there was effectively a politeness tax -- a long line formed, but everyone who was nice enough to get in line ended up waiting much longer than the people (mostly, it seemed, angry young men) who just swarmed the gate. The security people should not be rewarding jerkiness.
a bad experience all around
The lines at Shea today were the worst I've ever seen. From the mobs at the gates to the bathroom lines to the beer and food lines, it was out of control.
I, too, was there with what I thought was plenty of time to get to my seats, and I missed all of the opening ceremonies (caught the flyover when I was a part of the mob scene at the gate). Lucky enough I sat down in time for the second pitch.
And then the game was like the Mets picked up right where they left off last year. I should check my ticket stubs, but I think I must have been to at least five of their nine straight losses to Philadelphia. Ugh.
All in all, it made for a pretty forgettable Opening Day.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Apr 8, 2008 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
UGH
If it wasn't for the first Philadelphians there would be no New York City or America.
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