Billy Wagner: 2008 Mets MVP
by ZaBlanc on May 15, 2008 11:46 PM EDT
44 comments
Every Met fan in the universe should bet caressing any handy picture of Billy Wagner tonight.
All year it's been "The Mets have the most talent!" this and "The Mets will turn it around!" that. Well f*** that. I've been getting ripped on the blogs for my stance on Carlos Beltran. Everything I say gets taken out of context and I see the "great clutch single" comments all the time. Maybe it's funny, but when you're joking about it on a 2nd inning single, you don't realize what will happen when it's a 9th inning base-running atrocity.
Sorry, folks, the Mets will not *magically* turn it around on their own. Auto-pilot won't work, folks. This ain't Airplane, minus the cigarettes. The Mets need a complete mental change.
Billy Wagner is our only hope of that happening.
His tirade after the game today is what we need. Where are the accountable? How many times does he have to sit in the bullpen and watch this "oh so talented" team sleepwalk through games every day? These guys need some fire. They need to realize that they need to go out and WIN these games -- no one is handing it to them. WAKE UP, GUYS.
If the Mets somehow make it to the playoffs with this zombie team, I guarantee you you'll be thanking Billy Wagner. Not for today, but for what's to come. He is the only man who sees what's happening.
<blockquote>
On the eve of the Subway Series, with Mike Pelfrey's no-hit flirtation squandered, the Mets had a clubhouse eruption Thursday. Closer Billy Wagner looked across the room, in the direction of the vacant locker of Carlos Delgado, and blurted:
"Someone tell me why the ---- you're talking to the closer. I didn't even play. They're over there, not being interviewed."
Wagner paused for dramatic effect. Then, in a scene reminiscent of last year's Paul Lo Duca comments, minus the racial overtones, the closer sarcastically added: "I got it. They're gone. ----ing shocker."
</blockquote>
PS - The only other MVP possibility is Omar Minaya, who *must* fire Willie Randolph. Right now. We need fire and grit and he has abandoned his post as Manager since Cardinals-Mets, Game 7, 8th Inning.
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Billy sounded like
an egomaniac horses ass today as he usually does.
by DoctorK16 on May 15, 2008 11:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How'sthat?
Why does Billy get the blame? I’m sure he’s just tired of talking to the media everyday, when guys like Beltran and Delgado duck out all the time. Wagner is a stand up guy, and talks to the media win lose or draw, just like David Wright. How come the Carloses can’t do that too? And why is it Wag’s fault for pointing it out.
The Mets just lost 3 out of 4 to the shitty Nats, and the two guys who just made the last two outs of a 1-0 game aren’t around to talk to the press afterwards. That’s fucked up and it has nothing to due with Billy other then the fact that he pointed it out.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on May 16, 2008 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
confront his teammates
about, keep that shit in house. And Beltran and Delgado don’t duck every day. Delgado had and engagment yesterday. Beltran I see on the post game show all the time. The problem is the reporters don’t really want to talk to them because they don’t have a penchant for ripping the teammates like Billy does. Maybe the team should have ripped him when he was blowing key games in the dive last year. Dude is dick and hard to root for IMO.
by DoctorK16 on May 16, 2008 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree it should stay in house
But I can’t kill him speaking the truth.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on May 16, 2008 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what is this "fire" of which you speak, and who will be our Mets Prometheus?
I really, honestly, do not get why people always seem to want so much to attribute a team’s momentary underperformance to the players having the wrong mindset, not seeming passionate enough, or whatever. I mean, maybe it’s more fun that way - if you like the personality-driven drama to drive the story - but it’s not exactly a reasonable way to answer the question “why is this happening?” Honestly, everyone in the majors has passion for the game. If they didn’t want to win baseball games more than anything else - and have the ability to do it better than anyone else on the planet - they wouldn’t have made it to the show. I know, Beltran doesn’t grit his teeth and/or scream like Paul O’Neill. But he is still better at baseball than O’Neill ever was. Why is this hard to understand? If the Mets continue to underperform over a longer stretch of the season, enough that it isn’t just a small-sample-size blip, then it will be because they don’t have enough players that are good enough at baseball, not because of how they feel or talk about the game. Baseball skills are easy to get a decent grasp on using facts, rather than approaching a team like a soap-opera cast and looking for the right emotional mix.
Fortunately, Billy Wagner is a damn good pitcher as well as a buck-passing jerk (that rant was a real “24-plus-1” thing like nothing Alex Rodriguez ever said), so I am willing to ignore his stupid rant, and I hope his teammates will overlook it as well.
by anonymous on May 16, 2008 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Utter Nonsense
That is so naive. Any decent observance of baseball in the last 25 years would tell you that what you’re saying is wrong. Beltran better than O’Neil. Ask any Mets fan right now who they want up in the 9th with the game on the line. Be honest with yourself, dude.
David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)
by ZaBlanc on May 16, 2008 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
O'Neil
Yes. It’s not 2004 any more, bub. Aside from that one postseason, what performance has proved to you he is Mr. Clutch?
David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)
by ZaBlanc on May 16, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there was also the 2006 postseason
I guess it doesn’t count because he wasn’t AS good as the 2004 postseason, though.
by JoshNY on May 16, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No question
The Mets have played like dogshit for most of the season. Wagner and Ryan Church have been the lone bright spots, and if the Mets continue to play this way then Willie Randolph will be given just enough rope to hang himself with. Managers are generally given too much credit when a team succeeds and too much blame when a team is scuffling. Randolph seems particularly overwhelmed by most in-game managing decisions, but it’s hardly his fault that Carlos Delgado is succumbing to age, David Wright couldn’t hit his way out of a paper bag right now, and Omar Minaya committed to four years of Luis Castillo’s hobbly knees and punchless bat.
by Eric Simon on May 16, 2008 12:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
at this point, your posts sound like a parody of your other posts
And that has to be tough to do.
Step back, look at some numbers or trends, and write something with an intelligent question or complaint or two, and perhaps it will lead to a reasonable discussion.
Plus, also, too, this line is pretty creepy:
Every Met fan in the universe should bet [sic] caressing any handy picture of Billy Wagner tonight.
Yeesh.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on May 16, 2008 12:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Enjoy Your Math
Use your eyes, guy.
David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)
by ZaBlanc on May 16, 2008 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My eyes tell me
That Carlos Beltran is a great baseball player, although he’s playing poorly at the moment.
There, now my eyes and your eyes disagree. What ever could we do to resolve this dispute?
Oh, right, that’s why there are records of what players actually do.
by JoshNY on May 16, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Naive
Games aren’t played with numbers. They are played with wooden bats, leather mitts, and grit. You should have noticed that by now.
David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)
by ZaBlanc on May 16, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bats, mitts, and grit
Okay, I finally get it. You are Joe Morgan and I claim my five dollars.
by anonymous on May 16, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious?
Gee, is that how games are played? I’ve never actually seen a “baseball” game. I thought they were played by robots or simulated on computers using a program written by Billy Beane.
Yes, games are played by men using wooden bats and leather gloves and (whatever they’re made of) baseballs. The results of those games are then summarized by numbers, such as “Washington scored one run and the Mets scored zero, therefore Washington won the game.”
by JoshNY on May 16, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would lose
I’m just getting over pinkeye and my eyes are still very dry, so I have to blink a lot
by JoshNY on May 16, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then ZaBlanc's eyes are more trustworthy
Beltran must not be great
by ams258 on May 16, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its funny that you've
got your signature as a David Wright MVP watch. Dude is as biggest part of recent suckitude as anyone else. His swing is long as hell right now and he can’t but a hit of righties who the Mets are five or six games under .500 against. But he’s the golden boy unworthy of any criticism.
by DoctorK16 on May 16, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
Maybe Wagner is right about him being the only one willing to talk to the media. But if memory serves, during the collapse last year Wagner was awful, blew some big saves and then came up with a mysterous back injury that was supposed to explain it all away. I don’t honestly recall him being so chatty with the media back then. You win and lose as a team and anything that divides the team is not a winning move. Wagner should keep this in house.
As for the Beltran bashing it really has gotten more and more stale and stupid. I get that people have not forgotten strike 3 in Game 7 but you know what it was a pretty unhittable pitch. After a slow start, Beltran has been hitting the ball very well of late. Meanwhile everybody's darling David Wright get a free pass. He strikes out a lot more than Beltran but somehow I don't hear the same concern.As for Willie, fire him if you want to. He is not a great skipper and his handling of the bullpen is bad. But please tell me who you want to replace him? If you say Larry Bowa then I will know that you really don't know what you are talking about.by Endys Game on May 16, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
post got cut off
Don’t know what went wrong with the formatting. I wanted to end by saying that Beltran gets attacked mostly because of resentment over strike 3 in Game 7 while David Wright gets a free pass when he slumps. Not fair. As for Willie, fire him if you want to. His handling of the bullpen is awful. But please tell me who you will replace him with? If you say Larry Bowa, then I know you don’t really know what you are talking about.
by Endys Game on May 16, 2008 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
fair enough
But I don’t think he’d want the job at this point
by Endys Game on May 16, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no way
Bobby V time has come and gone here. The veterans on this particular squad would be ready to go war the minute he discusses there party habits with the press.
by DoctorK16 on May 16, 2008 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know
I liked him a lot though, was the reason I mentioned him, rather than any realistic possibility that he’d be a candidate to replace Willie if Willie were to be fired
by JoshNY on May 16, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fresh blood.
I never liked that reasoning…”Who ya gonna get?” There are plenty of great candidates out there.
As for Beltran, sorry it’s gotten old, but it’s emblematic of our problems this year. We need players, not numbers. David Wright is slumping now, but I’ve seen him get more big-time clutch hits in a year than Beltran has had his whole Mets career.
David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)
by ZaBlanc on May 16, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great candidates
plenty? Well then I am sure you can name one or two.
by Endys Game on May 16, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"David Wright is slumping now, but I’ve seen him get more big-time clutch hits in a year than Beltran has had his whole Mets career."
Beltran 12th inning bases loaded double
Beltran 17th inning RBI single gives Mets the lead
Beltran 10th inning single (no-good choker Wright grounds into FC afterwards)
Beltran walks, scores winning run in 14th
Beltran 16th inning walk-off HR
Beltran 10th inning RBI double
Beltran singles, scores GW run in 10th
And that’s just big hits (and, in one case, a walk) in the extra innings in the last two years. (That’s easy to search for because Retrosheet shows which games went extra innings in their game log.) I’d need more free time than I have at the moment in order to go through the late innings of all the other games, but I suspect you’d see some hits in the 8th and 9th innings as well.
Why don’t you just admit that you can’t forgive Beltran for making the last out of the 2006 NLCS and you’re going to allow that one thing to cloud your judgment of everything else he does?
by JoshNY on May 16, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's it?
Oh, gee, no wonder why I’m so critical. Beltran is Mr. Freakin October there. What a clutch walk. And the way he drove in that run after we had bases-loaded, none out. Surely, all of those April-through-July games, back in 2006, were exactly what I’m talking about.
Yes, my eyes have been wrong. You’re right. As usual. No problems with Beltran. He is our fearless leader. Thank god for the Google. No one is better from the 14th inning on.
David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)
by ZaBlanc on May 17, 2008 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, what a loser he is, taking that walk
Real men swing for the fences on every pitch
Games in April and July count the same as games in September and October. (You know, October? Like the playoffs? When Beltran hit really well?) And… so it’s a BAD thing that he drove runs in with the bases loaded? It only counts if there’s a guy on third and two out?
by JoshNY on May 18, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there is no way
that zablanc is serious. games are played with bats, mitts, and grit? are you fucking kidding me? this HAS to be satire.
by gogomets on May 17, 2008 3:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why is reality so hard?
So, why are all the commenters here so against speaking about reality? I’ve been a fan doe over 20 years, when no one else was a Mets fan in my family. I have kept as close as possible to the team despite now living in Colorado for over 10 years. My daily commute includes walking practically through Coors Field every day, and most of the time it’s done wearing a Mets cap and/or shirt to the shagrin of employees.
So, when I write about where the team is going wrong, so many of you want to throw Beltran lifetime numbers at me and preach about how things will magically turn around. That you see no evidence of this team needing some changes.
Amazin Avenue is not hear as some propoganda tool. We are here, all as devoted Mets fans, to talk baseball. If you think Beltran has been Mr. Clutch since he arrived here, thats your preorogotive (and delusion). If you think David Wright’s slump is the source of our woes, fine, take that, too. But if you think we’ll win a division due to paper talent, please, go find some medication.
This is my OPINION. If you don’t think the Mets have issues or don’t think a $20 million dollar player who can’t be counted on for dick in the late innings of even regular season games isn’t a problem, or the obvious penchant for an entire team to sleepwalk through games isn’t a problem, then write a blog about it.
In the meantime, I seem to be proven more and more correct every game and I think that’s where some of this anger comes from. And ya know what, Billy’s comments ARE having an affect as I see the Mets had a little talk today. You wait and see, I know a little more about baseball than you all give me credit for.
David Wright MVP Watch: .311/4/14! (through 12 games)
by ZaBlanc on May 17, 2008 8:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
reality isn't hard
Reality is that Carlos Beltran is without question one of the great CFs in the game and the Mets 2nd best player. Is he off to a poor start? Sure, but I GUARANTEE that we won’t be talking about him as a problem come July. Will the Mets still have problems come July? Sure (hopefully not too many), but they’re likely to be Pedro’s inability to stay healthy, Delgado being old, Castillo being creaky, and Heilman being terrible (thank God Sosa was finally shit-canned the other day).
Did you watch an inning of the 2006 NLCS other than the bottom of the 9th of game 7? Do you remember who actually hit in that series? The two guys both have the same name, and it starts with a “C” and ends with an “ARLOS”. David Wright did shit in that series. Maybe if DW hit well, the Mets go onto the World Series.
Flushing, Queens: soon to be known as Johan's-burg!!!
by Greenpoint Ian on May 17, 2008 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
Wagner is an incredibly talented pitcher. He’s also a goddamn moron who should keep his fucking mouth shut to the press. No wonder they hated him in Philadelphia.
Flushing, Queens: soon to be known as Johan's-burg!!!
by Greenpoint Ian on May 17, 2008 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wags and the Media
I said before it should have stayed internal, but how do we know that Billy hasn;t said something internal before to no avail? I know this was an issue before, and if it’s still going on, well that would frustrate me also. Yes it should have stayed out of the media, but if they aren’t getting the message, perhaps something like this will wake them up.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on May 17, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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