Have We Settled Anything?
by Eric Simon on Jun 17, 2008 11:32 AM EDT
in Commentary
51 comments
Much like each successive episode of Lost, the Mets' own sci-fi melodramatic love story has left us with more questions than answers after Wille Randolph, Rick Peterson and Tom Nieto were canned in the middle of the night. Questions like:
- Why now? Why did the Mets string everyone -- Randolph, the team, the fans -- along for weeks just to pull a bush league maneuver like this? The timing makes no sense and the handling was so poor that this organization should be embarrassed from the top down.
- Why fire Rick Peterson? Did he hit Moises Alou in the back of the knees with a lead pipe and demand Fernando Tatis play in his stead? Did he secretly dump a vial of uber-regression serum into Carlos Delgado's scrambled eggs? No, but he did help shape John Maine into a very solid #2 pitcher and must have played some part in helping to coax the past month of encouraging pitching out of Mike Pelfrey. The staff *did* fall apart down the stretch last year, so that could have had something to do with Peterson's ousting. Or, perhaps this is just the Mets' way of saying they don't like the newfangled tree-hugging approach to his job. Peace and love and keeping the ball down and butterflies flying in formation? No thank you, they said.
- What do we expect from Jerry Manuel, who takes over for Randolph starting tonight? I don't expect the culture in the clubhouse to change meaningfully, though I don't know if that was ever a real problem here. I don't have the numbers to back this up, but I feel like Manuel has probably been ejected more often than Randolph over the past two seasons. So, maybe we'll get a bit more fire out of the skipper. I have no idea what Manuel's tactical management resume looks like, so I guess we'll figure that out as we go along. It can't be much worse than Willie's, I think we'll all agree on that.
- When is Manny Acta's deal up with the Nationals?
- Would Paul DePodesta be willing to move to the east coast?
Interestingly, the Mets have fired New York's first black manager and craftily replaced him with New York's second black manager.
This whole thing was bungled so badly that part of me wonders if it wasn't orchestrated from the start in order to cast Willie Randolph in the best possible light, leaving his reputation intact and perhaps making him more attractive to other teams. The only way this could have been handled any more ineptly would be if the Mets had fired Randolph via webcam while Jeff Wilpon was kicking the manager's dog on the other end.
Lost in all of this is the promotion of New Orleans manager Ken Oberkfell to the big league staff in a position that has yet to be determined. Obie has been an organizational soldier for a number of years now, winning minor league manager of the year a few seasons back with Binghamton. I'm happy to see him finally get a promotion and I hope to see him around Shea for a long time.
1 recs |
51 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Inexplicable
I have to agree with everything you said there, Eric. I guess I’m OK with Willie’s departure, but right as the Mets were getting some momentum? And the last time I checked, the pitching staff was the reason the Mets are still in (some sort of) contention. Rick Peterson has done a tremendous job in molding the team’s young starting pitchers. After vacillating several times over the past couple of years, I now officially don’t approve of Omar Minaya.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby
by Prince on Jun 17, 2008 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
right on
You nailed it, Eric.
One thing that I’ve noticed is that this move seems to be totally backfiring on the organization/front office. The same people who were calling for Willie’s head now feel really bad for the guy and think that the Wilpons are a bunch of buttheads (or worse). They definitely couldn’t have done any more to make a sympathetic character out of Willie in the end.
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Jun 17, 2008 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe
Omar could have broke the news by leaving a post it note on willie desk.
by kendynamo on Jun 17, 2008 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Acta
Per this interview from last October, Manny Acta is under contract with Washington until the end of next season.
by JoshNY on Jun 17, 2008 12:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Jacket
Bill Madden’s theory (on Mike and Mike this morning) was that Tony Bernazard was less than thrilled with the credit Peterson got in developing the Mets’ pitchers. I wonder if we’re going to be hearing more of these “Bernazard hates X for Y reason” over the next few months.
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 17, 2008 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
stories
was the word I omitted.
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 17, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bernazard
He’s a real problem. He’s why the Mets didn’t sign Delgado in ‘05 (when he really could have helped), plus he’s the one he didn’t get along with Willie. Now he had a problem with The Jacket also? He needs to go.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jun 17, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's done a fine job with player
you see these young players that have worked out from our system this year.
by DoctorK16 on Jun 17, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forget Acta...Give me Ozzie!
They say that when you switch managers, the new guy should be the complete opposite of the old one. I can’t think of anybody who fits that profile better then Ozzie Guillen.
He could even go right into his first N.Y. expletive laden/ anti-gay rant at his intro press conference.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jun 17, 2008 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I so disgusted
Right now I’m not sure.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jun 17, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ozzie Guillen is a moron who thinks bunting, not pitching, is why the White Sox won the World Series
He might be the opposite of Willie in personality but he’s just as bad tactically. If we hire Ozzie, we’ll be addressing what was perceived to have been wrong with Willie rather than what was ACTUALLY wrong with Willie.
Plus the racism and homophobia. The lack of anti-gay rants was one good thing about Willie.
by JoshNY on Jun 17, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are still many good things about Willie. Whether or not he knows how to double switch, or if he brings in a lefty to face a lefty isn’t why this team is as bad as it is right now. I was being (partly) facetious when I brought up Ozzie. No matter who the new manager is for the long haul until the Mets put together a better line-up and the Bull-pen isn’t as crappy this team won’t win, and thats not the managers fault no matter who he is.
I hope Omar realizes that if this team doesn’t turn itself around, he’s next. Papa Wilpon isn’t going to fire little Jeffy.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jun 17, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, then what is the justification for firing Willie?
Is it his fault that Wagner had a shitty week and cost us a few wins? That the Mets didn’t have a good contingency play for Alou’s inevitable injury? That Beltran isn’t hitting for much power this year? That Church got kicked in the head?
It seems like you wanted Willie to be fired over things that weren’t necessarily his fault rather than things that were.
by JoshNY on Jun 17, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't want Willie fired
I want Omar fired.
I was saying that I don’t want Acta as a replacement. (being sarcastic.)
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jun 17, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
with almost everything being said here and in particular I agree that Peterson should not have been fired and that Bernzard and the Wilpons look like fools. But why are you guys so crazy to get DePodesta here? What makes you all think he can be the one to turn it around?
by Endys Game on Jun 17, 2008 1:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he has a brain
DePo has a fairly long track record of making good decisions based on empirical evidence, not gut feelings or grizzled baseball bullshit. It’s that simple, really.
by anonymous on Jun 17, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DePo
I mean what is his track record? I read Moneyball also and I understand he is a key figure in that book and that people here generally like stats based decision making. Fine. But if you want to hire Billy Beane-lite , why don’t you just offer Beane the job ?(with enough money I am sure he might take it) Otherwise, what has DePo ever done on his own to prove himself? He put together one playoff team during his tenure with the Dodgers and that team got handily beat by a team put together by the GM you want to fire. He hasn’t done squat since he went to San Diego. So what is this track record? I am honestly puzzled and/or confused by this?
by Endys Game on Jun 17, 2008 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DePo
For one thing, Beane can’t leave Oakland—he owns part of the team these days.
As for DePo, he was given a raw deal in Los Angeles. He’s quite deserving of a second chance given that things weren’t nearly so bad in LA as it was made out to seem. In fact, most of the moves he was criticized for (signing Derrek Lowe, trading Lo Duca for Penny, letting Adrian Beltre walk, giving JD Drew his out clause) wound up looking pretty good in the end. It’s really not fair to hold his season and a half in SD against him—he’s a special assistant, which is often more like being a consultant than a steady job.
The real reason why I’m not sure I’d like DePo running the Mets is that the media killed him in LA. I’m not sure whether he handled them badly or what, but I do know that the NY media won’t be more forgiving. I’d want to at least know what happened in LA first.
by Alex Nelson on Jun 17, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to Wikipedia
Bill Plaschke was the main guy who crucified him in L.A. Now I obviously don’t read Plaschke’s column, but I’ve seen him a lot on Around the Horn. Simply put, the guy doesn’t know sports. He’s always criticizing authority figures in sports, without pinpointing what they’re doing wrong and offering a solution. But it seems as though guys like him may have been a factor in DePodesta’s firing.
"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby
by Prince on Jun 17, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plaschke is an utter idiot
He’s a bloviating buffoon who’s a regular at Fire Joe Morgan. Not only does he salivate over “hustle”, “grit”, and “gamers”, he’ll never pass up an opportunity to trash “stat geeks”. Also, the guy styles himself as another Walt Whitman with the kind of pseudo-poetry he writes in his columns.
Plaschke still hasn’t forgiven DePodesta for dealing Paulie Steroids for Brad Penny. Meanwhile, he heaps praise all over Juan Pierre. QED.
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
by Greenpoint Ian on Jun 17, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
But why do you think DePodesta is the way to go?
by Endys Game on Jun 17, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for the reasons Blackfish listed
He’s never had much of a shot running a MLB team, but he made some good moves in his short tenure in LA. I simply think he’d be less likely to go with his gut and more likely to go with his brain.
DePodesta isn’t the only name out there that interests me (Chris Antonetti in Cleveland is another) but his name is the biggest one.
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
by Greenpoint Ian on Jun 17, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gutless, Classless, I'm Speechless
What an astoundiingly wrongheaded way to fire Willie. Sure, the guy never seemed to recover from the Playoff stunner in 2006 and he seemed to have trouble getting the club to play with passion and consistency, but you just don’t do what they did to a man as dignified as Willie is. I saw footage of him leaving the hotel in Costa Mesa this morning and it just made me feel like I can’t pull for the Mets anymore as long as that tushy faced lout Jeff Wilpon is calling the shots from behind the curtain. And I’m really disappointed that Omar Minaya couldn’t have shown a little bit more class.
by KennyKatella on Jun 17, 2008 3:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I feel the exact same way right now
Maybe if the Mets win like 15 straight I’ll feel differently.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jun 17, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two Thoughts
Let’s not forget the classless way the Yankees dumped Joe Torre. “We offered him a reduced deal and he said no—he quit!”
Second, Rick Peterson should have been fired the moment the snap of his fingers occurred when he pronounced he could fix Victor Zambrano like that! (No, I can’t explain it, must be internal. I don’t feel terrible.)
The 2008 NY Mets: Reyes singles. Castillo infield single. Wright walks. Beltran lines out. ZaBlanc bitches. Delgado strikes out. Reyes picked off third. Fans boo. Padres win 2-1.
by ZaBlanc on Jun 17, 2008 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And...
I still feel great Randolph is gone this morning. The way they handled it was retarded, as we come to expect a lot of the time. But, still, I’m excited to see what loyalties being cast away do to change the team. Remember, Jerry Manual was a Coach of the Year, so, he’ll work for now until we decide what happens.
We don’t even know if he wants the job, do we?
The 2008 NY Mets: Reyes singles. Castillo infield single. Wright walks. Beltran lines out. ZaBlanc bitches. Delgado strikes out. Reyes picked off third. Fans boo. Padres win 2-1.
by ZaBlanc on Jun 17, 2008 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Willie was the first black manager?
Eh?
I thought that honor went to Frank Robinson back in the 70s?
by tgh on Jun 17, 2008 5:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Which is what Omar said during the top of the press conference
As he’s repeatedly saying “it was tough” – “he was my hire” – “we had a special bond”.
by tgh on Jun 17, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Willie was the first black manager in NY
I think that’s what people mean when they say that with regards to him, anyway.
by JoshNY on Jun 17, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
The fact that I said “the Mets have fired New York’s first black manager”.
by Eric Simon on Jun 17, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Omar Said....
Randolph was the first black manager in NY, and he (Minaya) was the first Hispanic general manager. That’s what Omar said.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
by wgarrett on Jun 17, 2008 5:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Question Now Is....
will the Mets turn it around with Manuel managing the team, or will this team continue to sputter? I think it looks bad how the firing was done but Minaya seems to be telling the truth and held out as long as he could. Firings are never pretty but some look uglier than others. Bottom line: If the Mets get back into the thick of things or take over first place, all this will not matter, and any fans who are disgusted with the way this was handled will be back.
Winning cures everything. Winning cures everything.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
by wgarrett on Jun 17, 2008 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If you’re talking about fan perception, sure, winning cures everything. But are you proposing that the managerial change will cause the Mets to play better? That seems very unlikely.
by anonymous on Jun 17, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
I wasn’t proposing anything. I was asking if people thought it would or not, and now I have your opinion. Thanks.
And it’s not just fan perception concerning “winning cures everything”. Winning does cure everything. If Randolph was winning we wouldn’t have this discussion, and the Mets wouldn’t have any of the real or perceived issues and problems that they have.
Winning cures everything.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
by wgarrett on Jun 17, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
okay, this is getting a little too Zen for me
If the Mets were winning, they wouldn’t have problems. If they didn’t have problems, they would be winning. Therefore, winning cures everything—at least everything that has to be cured before the team can win. I think I am getting closer to enlightenment.
by anonymous on Jun 17, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, My Son...
you are almost ready. All you need do is to snatch the pebble from my hand. When you are able to do this, then you are ready.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
by wgarrett on Jun 18, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone else watching/listening to Omar's press conference?
It’s on ESPN.com and WFAN. I have to say that Omar is looking more and more like a buffoon the more I see of this; he’s fumbling, trying and failing to cover his ass, and he looks like he knows his ship is sinking.
by anonymous on Jun 17, 2008 5:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's on SNY also
At least he admitted that he was as much to blame as Willie.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jun 17, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would hope so
After all, while Willie might deserve blame for playing a worthless player like Schneider over Castro, Omar’s the one who acquired said worthless player in the first place.
And no, I’m not giving up on this whole Castro thing. To me, he’s the poster child for everything that’s wrong with the Mets management, so that’s why I’ll keep bitching about it.
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
by Greenpoint Ian on Jun 17, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that might be a big poster
There are so many poster boys to choose from. It could be a montage of Castro, Gotay, Jesus Flores, Milledge, Castillo, and Schoeneweis, and that would still only be a small selected group of this year’s poster children. Maybe it should be a whole collectible set of posters.
by anonymous on Jun 17, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have been bitching alot
I’m not sure Castro would make a huge difference, but playing him more couldn’t hurt much at this point.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jun 17, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he's healthy, Castro is a MUCH better hitter than Schneider
by JoshNY on Jun 17, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When he's healthy,
Thats the key
The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.
by sireric on Jun 17, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
So then what’s the justification for not playing him when he’s healthy? We play Alou when he’s healthy because he’s a better hitter than Chavez, why don’t we play Castro when he’s healthy because he’s a better hitter than Schneider?
by JoshNY on Jun 17, 2008 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember....
This is Randolph’s first managerial job. He will get another chance now that he is now part of the ex-manager fraternity. He’ll get another job, maybe even this season, if he wants to. There will be at least one job that could open up before this season’s over.
Manuel sounds like he has a plan. He wants to “freshen up” the players, citing they DH’d Beltran yesterday and, when Wright came up to him and said “I want to play for you tonight” he told him “you’re DH’ing”. He also said he wants to define/solidify roles in the bullpen. He’s ready to manage, since he has experience. What shall be the results of it? We’ll see.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
by wgarrett on Jun 17, 2008 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Omar
Wow. Just wow. Real classy of you, man. Firing Willie 90 minutes after the team won for the 3rd time in 4 games, and just after he flew cross-country for a road trip. And Peterson? WTF????!! Without Peterson handling our pitching staff, there’s no way we’re even sniffing .500. There’s got to be some personal reasons for letting him go. This, this is just ugly. I have been a Mets fan since I was 6 (1987). I have stuck with this team through the dark days of Vince Coleman and Bobby Bonilla, through the Yankee dynasty of the late 90’s, and the most epic collapse I have ever witnessed in any sport. But this is a new low for a franchise that has known far too many of them. For the first time, I am actually ashamed to root for the Mets.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Jun 17, 2008 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Eh
This team’s been through worse. I’m still trying to forget the early to mid 90s.
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jun 17, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, My Friend....
this team has been through much, much worse. Seaver’s departure via trade still ranks at the top of all-time Mets travesties. This is bad, though, but not so devastating. This team might be dead in the water, anyway, so it might not matter what they do.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
by wgarrett on Jun 18, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
Related FanPosts on Amazin' Avenue
Related FanShots on Amazin' Avenue
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
