New York Mets @ St. Louis Cardinals GameThread, Jun 30, 2008 7:05 PM EDT

Open Thread - Game 82: Mets vs Cardinals

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 6:14 PM EDT in Game Chatters Comment 101 comments

New York Mets at St. Louis Cardinals, Jun 30, 2008 7:05 PM EDT

Lineup

06/30/08 7:05 PM EDT

New York Mets	St. Louis Cardinals
Jose Reyes - SS	Skip Schumaker - RF
Luis Castillo - 2B	Aaron Miles - 2B
David Wright - 3B	Albert Pujols - 1B
Carlos Beltran - CF	Rick Ankiel - CF
Carlos Delgado - 1B	Troy Glaus - 3B
Ryan Church - RF	Chris Duncan - LF
Endy Chavez - LF	Yadier Molina - C
Brian Schneider - C	Kyle Lohse - P
John Maine - P	Brendan Ryan - SS

	W-L	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	BS	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	ERA	WHIP
2008 - John Maine	8-5	16	16	0	0	0	0	94.0	84	42	39	9	39	79	3.73	1.31

	W-L	G	GS	CG	SHO	SV	BS	IP	H	R	ER	HR	BB	K	ERA	WHIP
2008 - Kyle Lohse	9-2	17	17	0	0	0	0	98.1	103	45	43	7	24	46	3.94	1.29

Poll

Predict the series with the Cardinals:

Mets win, 4-0

1 votes

Mets win, 3-1

6 votes

Split, 2-2

17 votes

Cardinals win, 3-1

11 votes

Cardinals win, 4-0

6 votes

41 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 101 comments

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Comments

Hello?

Anyone there?

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 7:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just tuned in

Maine a bit off tonight?

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 7:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The first 4 hitters got on

but then he got a double play and a groundout. I can’t really decide how he looks.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Castillo

Nice play there, defensive specialist.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 7:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh God

This is fun.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 7:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What the hell is happening?

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh thank goodness

Clutch catch by Beltran there.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

2 outs, runner on base, and he made the grab. Well done.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Watch him drop that shit when it counts

Like in the ninth inning.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jose

He gave it a nice ride there. ~~Jim Edmonds~~ That wild pitcher guy tracked it down.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 7:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jesus

Their middle infielders practically run into each other and still make the play. Luis Castillo can’t handle a ball hit right at him.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

can't watch this game

baseball on espn is utterly painful. let’s talk about batting average, clutchiness, heart/fire/passion/moxie for 3 hours and suck off larussa while we’re at it.

by gogomets on Jun 30, 2008 8:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Clutch

Mets leaders in Clutchiness Over Replacement:

Reyes: 15.2
Wright: 9.8
Beltran: -12402140e1123123
Delgado: ka-blork
Church: 98.6
Jetes: INF

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

driven

Say what you will about Derek.

The man makes a good cologne.

by mmxii on Jun 30, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Say what you will about Jeter

Unlike some other Dereks, he never engaged in Operation Shutdown

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh man, it's what's-his-name

I’d rather listen to Kaye and Kaat.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

huh

by gogomets on Jun 30, 2008 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The guy doing color commentary

I hate him.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who is it?

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sutcliffe

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thought it was orel and stevie

by gogomets on Jun 30, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is it?

Maybe I have it mixed up. All I know is that I hate him with a passion.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh

Yea, he’s awful.

Does this awesome picture of him make you feel any better?

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No

You’re right, gogomets. It is Philips. A small consolation.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

in case you forgot, he really stinks. can’t hit, can’t block balls in the plate, and based on what I have seen doesn’t call a great game either. field general skills blah. so I am left with his ability to throw runners out. Bleh.

by Endys Game on Jun 30, 2008 8:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Totally

Ramon Castro should be starting at least half of the games, if not more.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Delgado

All or nothing. This time - like most times - we get nothing.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Endy Chavez

Basically nothing or nothing at this point. No surprise that we got nothing.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

endy has used up any good will i might have had

he’s an LOB machine

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's the best option

Better D than Tatis or Andeson.

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2008 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's only the best option

Because Omar Minaya is a shitty GM and didn’t give the Mets any better option.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks i was thinking that

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wow, this game sucks

3 errors in 4 innings. Nice throw there, Davey.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 8:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You can't be serious

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." - Rogers Hornsby

by Prince on Jun 30, 2008 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do the Cardinals have any extra-base hits?

Their dinks and our shit defense and it’s five-zip. This is embarrassing. And hard to watch.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hmn

Type of game that should get the manager fired. Oh wait, we tried that already.

by Endys Game on Jun 30, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Am I being too tough on him...?

Or could Jose at least have tried to dive and knock that ball down?

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2008 8:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Awfully tough to tell from that angle whether he had any chance of doing so

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ooh, and it's Kyle Lohse

This is exactly the kind of shitty pitcher who gives us fits

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 8:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

um he'd a looked pretty good in our shitty rotation

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pshaw

You must be thinking of someone else. Lohse has 4.21 strikeouts per nine innings this season. You call that a shitty pitcher?

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maine sucks without the Jacket

Really, is that statement any more preposterous than yesterday’s press attributing Ollie’s entirely random good outing to a change in pitching coach.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

a screw it...

Maine is a big disappointment

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ankeil's WIIILLLD

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

juuuust a bit outside

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Keith saying that should be E-1 because Ankiel used to be a pitcher?

I’m probably giving his sense of humor too much credit.

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nice

Ankiel throws like he pitches. Hard and nowhere near his intended target.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow

Carlos Muniz in the fifth inning. Glad to see Jerry isn’t phoning this one in.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i was trying to remember that guys name...

Malcolm in the middle.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well done!

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

time for some vitriol, no?

i am so sick of this team. They are flawed, yes.
They suck, yes. But it’s the careless play, the numbness of their nuts in the field that really finally gets me.
These next 8 games are going to be brutal, and perhaps season ending.
the only reason i haven’t throw myself off the ledge is because i would want to take as many Mets with me as possible.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You were due, I think

Hard to argue with anything you said. At least every other day this team plays a game that’s difficult to watch.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha!

They suck, yes. But it’s the careless play, the numbness of their nuts in the field that really finally gets me.

Where were you two months ago to defend my position. About time others see it as well. Another hapless, lazy, rotten effort by the Mets tonight. And they better start shaking this team up before it’s too late. (We’re only 3 out for gosh sakes!)

DO SOMETHING NOW.

The 2008 NY Mets: Reyes singles. Castillo infield single. Wright walks. Beltran lines out. ZaBlanc bitches. Delgado strikes out. Reyes picked off third. Fans boo. Padres win 2-1.

by ZaBlanc on Jun 30, 2008 8:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think you were a visionary

that’s not misunderestimating it

by mmxii on Jun 30, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have yet to hear a realistic proposal that would make a difference

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

trade for Kevin Garnett

have him play bo jackson style, and install some guts in this team. make the mets wear baseball jerseys.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

er basketball jerseys

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Shake it up

You can’t fix a whole team. The manager position was shaken upm and I think Manuel, despite only a .500 record or so, has done a better job.

Now, shake up the players. Castillo needs to sit.

The 2008 NY Mets: Reyes singles. Castillo infield single. Wright walks. Beltran lines out. ZaBlanc bitches. Delgado strikes out. Reyes picked off third. Fans boo. Padres win 2-1.

by ZaBlanc on Jun 30, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why?

I don’t love Castillo but Easley is worse at the plate and amazingly worse in the field

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2008 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

huh?

Which of your postions would you like someone to defend? That it was all Beltran’s fault? Or that Billy Wagner mouthing off to the press would turn the season around (and you said it right before the worst week of his career.)
We all agree this team stinks. the question is what needs to be done about it. I have not heard good answers from you so far.

by Endys Game on Jun 30, 2008 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i invented the internet

so i’ll pass on this challenge

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What's the plan?

Not enough chips to get (rent) C.C.
No veterans that anybody would really want.
Are Dunn or Griffey the answer?

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2008 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

in my opinion the situation is untenable

the core is rotten, but we already ate half the apple, so we own it.

(homage to Rick Peterson)

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which part is the core?

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

wright, reyes, beltran, santana, maine

None have really improved like we expected. They are making errors left and right, having subpar years left and right, and pissing us off left and right. The best you can say is that not one of them is leading the Mets to victory.

The peripheral junk is crap, but the core guys can’t be traded without giving up on the teams identity and foolishly discarding the long range plan.

The team needed a lot of work obviously. But the moves should have been made in the offseason: the strengthening of the pen, the planning of back ups for the rotation and sketchy outfield. The non-signing of Castillo to multiyears, the non-trade of Milledge. The pickup of, i dunno, Lohse?

Now Omar is constrained, he’d have us believe, by the lack of post-santana farm stock and/or the lack of available options.

i know im going out on a limb here and will take shrapnel, but hey, this game sucks to watch.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

Reyes has been much better this year than last. Beltran has been as good if not slightly better.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But some of these guys should be improving, no?

Beltran has been fine, but seems content not to take any next step that might be there for his game, his so-called outspokenness this spring led me to think he’d be a bit more assertive. But i do not think Reyes tantrums and shoddy defense strike me as improvements in his overall game. His steals are down which may be a good thing. I know you’re talking statistically, but this team must be measured by its shitballness as well.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On the one hand, I see what you mean about those guys

On the other hand:
OPS+/ERA+
Reyes 125
Wright 134
Beltran 128
Santana 135
Maine 109 (before tonight)

I feel bad about blaming our woes on the guys who’ve been playing pretty well for not playing well ENOUGH, rather than on the guys who’ve been plain-old bad.

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

where are your measures of shitballness?

i could write out the equation, but it’d blow your mind

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still refining it

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

seriously though

the “stars” at some point have to play like “stars”. I feel bad about blaming our woes on d easley and e chavez whose ceilings are pretty low. my main gripe is that omar put together a shit ass team and somehow missed some pretty obvious declines, injuries and free falls.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That gripe I agree with

How you can fail to plan for Alou getting hurt is beyond me

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What the hell is Keith talking about?

What does the First Amendment have to do with maple bats?

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 8:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Typical

Beltran, 4 balls, walks
Degado, 3-1, hits into DP
Church, 3-1, fly ball.

The dude threw 9 of 11 for balls, and the Mets didnt leave a baserunner on.

The 2008 NY Mets: Reyes singles. Castillo infield single. Wright walks. Beltran lines out. ZaBlanc bitches. Delgado strikes out. Reyes picked off third. Fans boo. Padres win 2-1.

by ZaBlanc on Jun 30, 2008 8:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Anyone going to call the booth?

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 9:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would but FCC regulations prevent me from saying what I want

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2008 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Give it a try

You could be the reason why SNY added time delay to their live call-in segments

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Free swag

For anyone who mentions the site.

by Eric Simon on Jun 30, 2008 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brian Barton (appearance) =

Manny Ramirez + Vlad G.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Jun 30, 2008 9:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think they're wrong about Piniella

Per baseball-reference he’s won divisions with Cincy (1990), Seattle (1995, 1997, 2001), Cubs (2007)

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 9:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah. They blew that one

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2008 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Drat

I was just about to call and they decided they’re done

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not much to do before the trading deadline, unless...

We sign Bonds. Come now, at this point, what have we got to lose? Assuming that the agent was serious about Barry playing for or near the league minimum, why not? Sure, Bonds MIGHT be fragile, but we are CERTAIN that Alou is porcelain china.

by JE on Jun 30, 2008 9:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm all for it

I’ve been arguing for Bonds all year. If he even comes close to his numbers last year it’s a zillion times better than any other option they have in LF.

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2008 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cool...

When our brethren object to a Bonds signing by bringing up “clubhouse cancer” issues, do they actually believe that this year’s roster (or last year’s, for that matter) is overflowing with team chemistry and good karma???

by JE on Jun 30, 2008 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Holliday obsession is insane

1. The Rockies probably won’t trade him
2. The Mets don’t have enough to get him
3. His career OPS splits are 1.081 at home and .790 on the road

by Reg Dunlop on Jun 30, 2008 9:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Adam Dunn?

I know he is not popular on this site because of the strikeouts and low average. But his OBP and power is better than any Mets outfielder. Don’t know about his defense though and he may not come that cheap.

by Endys Game on Jun 30, 2008 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm fine with him as a free agent

But we don’t have the chips to get him at the deadline, as per Holliday

by JoshNY on Jun 30, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

true

We don’t have the chips to get anyone. We should probably sell at the deadline. I was hoping Delgado would stay hot long enough to tempt some team that is a real contender into taking him on for a decent prospect or two.
Unless maybe we consider trading Fernando Martinez but whom would be worth that price?

by Endys Game on Jun 30, 2008 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs