Thursday Applesauce And Trade Deadline Open Thread
by Eric Simon on Jul 31, 2008 9:15 AM EDT
in Applesauce
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PrintRyan Church's plans have changed again. He was originally supposed to drive from Miami to Port St. Lucie to begin a rehab assignment with the Class-A Mets, but has been advised by the Mets' medical team to travel with rest of the Mets to Houston so that his situation can be monitored more closely. He just began swinging a bat again on Tuesday, and the Mets are reluctant to accelerate his timetable again. Nothing tangible seems to have triggered the change in plans; everyone just wants to take things more slowly this time around.
As I mentioned in my post earlier, the Mets appear on the verge of doing nothing, which may be the best course of action considering what other teams are asking for their mediocre players, let alone their stars. Buried in the afore-linked article is a note about John Maine, who has a strained rotator cuff and is likely to miss at least his next start in Houston. Pedro Martinez and Billy Wagner, who have each had similar injuries in the past, recommended some time off so that Maine's shoulder can rest.
Ken Griffey Jr. has been traded to the White Sox, pending Griffey's 10-5 approval. Griffey is having a so-so year, posting a 103 OPS+, which is actually kinda crummy for a corner outfielder playing his home games in Great American Ballpark. We'll see how much he as left in the tank.
More to come, I'm sure. Use this space to dump and discuss all of the links/rumors you hear throughout the day.
UPDATE [10:55am]: Peter Gammons reports that the Marlins have acquired Arthur Rhodes in exchange for former Met prospect Gaby Hernandez. Hernandez has a 7.24 ERA with Albquerque of the Pacific Coast League. The Mets had traded Hernandez to the Marlins a couple of years ago in the Paul Lo Duca deal. [MetsBlog]
UPDATE [4:35pm]: Manny Ramirez appears to be headed to the Dodgers in a three-team deal that sends Jason Bay to Boston and a bunch of prospects to Pittsburgh. More as this develops. [SI.com]
UPDATE [4:47pm]: I'm hearing Craig Hansen and Brandon Moss coming from Boston and Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris coming from L.A., all going to Pittsburgh. More coverage at Over The Monster.
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The Marlins can't be serious, can they?
The latest Manny rumor I saw was this:
Florida gets Manny (and maybe a prospect)
Pittsburgh gets Jeremy Hermida and 2 prospects
Boston gets Jason Bay and John Grabow
As much as I hate Florida’s ownership, their front office is very, very good. Larry Beinfest must have taken too much LSD or something to be considering this. If he thinks the Marlins can win the NL East (which I seriously doubt), why not just get Bay and Grabow? In addition, the one thing the Marlins don’t need is another awful-fielding power hitter. Go get Coco Crisp from Boston if you need to make a move.
This rumor makes absolutely no sense from Florida’s perspective. It makes a whole lot of good sense from Pittsburgh and Boston’s perspectives, however.
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
I, for one
Would like to see Manny Ramirez patrolling that big outfield at Joe Robbie. Solid entertainment value.
But, no, I don’t understand why Florida would make that move. I mean, sure, big bat and all but I don’t know if it’s worth the cost of the three-month rental.
'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 31, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
rage
I’d be furious if the Red Sox get rid of the headache of Manny AND pick up Bay who’s younger, cheaper, not a space cadet, and having almost as good of a year at the plate, plus Grabow who’s having a good year out of the pen. We don’t expect to be able to trade Oliver Perez for Tim Lincecum do we? The Pirates should get significantly more than that for a player of Bay’s caliber.
Manny
I think the trade makes sense for Florida unless the prospects they give up are too good. Manny is still one of the best RBI guys out there when he puts his mind to it. and their defense stinks now, it can’t get that much worse.
The trade that makes no sense to me is the Griffey trade. Where the hell are the White Sox going to play him? They can't possibly think he can still play Center Field???Griffey
Where will the White Sox play him? They can’t possibly think he can still play Center Field?
swisher has dropped off the table this year
so…probably. i don’t think they want brian anderson’s and his .687 OPS playing every day, and i don’t think quentin or dye can play CF. you don’t want thome’s bat out of the lineup, so that pretty much leaves only CF open. yeesh.
This deal is crazy
I don’t know anything about the guys the Sox gave up, but if they are any good it’s an awful deal. Griffey is not that good anymore and given his recent injury history they are going to ask him to play a more physically demanding position?
This is one of those trades for “big name” that show who the bad GM’s really are.
Plus
The White Sox are 3rd in the AL in runs per game. Did they really need the extra offense?
I don’t know why I’m so worked up over this. I just hate stupid baseball moves so much.
looks like more or less a pure salary dump to me
I don’t know much about the pitchers going to the Reds in the deal but neither of them seems like a real prospect—I think this is just Cincinnati cutting Griffey’s gigantic salary and moving on.
Swisher
He isn’t playing horribly. 15 HRs, .348 OBP, and .404 SLG. That’s not great at all, but If I were the White Sox, I’d move Swisher to first to have him replace Paul Konerko and his .312 OBP and .349 SLG.
Of course, not all members of the White Sox seem to agree. Check out this gem from Ozzie Guillen:
’’People say, ‘Put Konerko on the bench, do this with Konerko, do that with Konerko,’ Guillen said in the Chicago Sun-Times on Wednesday. ‘Who’s going to play first? Swisher? Oh. Do me a favor, check the book first and check Swisher and Konerko’s averages, and it’s not that much different.’‘
Oh Ozzie…
this deal came 3 years too late
It would’ve made boatloads of sense in 2005, when Junior was still good, and the White Sox desperately needed a bat (all the media ball-washing of Scott Podsednik obscured how bad the White Sox lineup was aside from Dye and Konerko that year). These days, Junior is pretty much washed up, and the White Sox actually have a decent offense (even with Konerko as messed up as he is).
I guess it doesn’t really matter, since the Sox won it all in 2005 without getting a bat that I figured they needed.
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 31, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
thus proving that ozzieball
also known as “outball” or “smallball” or “idiotball” works, obviously.
it makes me so mad that the chisox won that year. everybody remembers the smallball crap but nobody remembers that they had like 5 or 6 pitchers pitching out of their minds.
oh, FJM remembers
There was a stretch of posts that seemed like a month and a half long on Fire Joe Morgan where they just couldn’t stop talking about this. The “analysts” on TV and radio do seem to have largely forgotten, though. Who cares about those pesky “facts” embodied in the recorded record of the games played? That’s just pocket-protector stat-geek stuff, not half as much fun as some nonsense story about grit and determination and fire.
slow day so far
Not too surprisingly, the rumors seem to be turning out a lot more interesting than the actual deals today. I am a little disappointed just because I find the crazy complexity of three-way deals like this Manny thing kind of entertaining. But on balance I guess I’d prefer to see that one fizzle, so there’s some chance the Mets can go after Jason Bay this offseason or next.
completely
What am I supposed to do, work or something?
work is for suckers
Unless NYS happens to be reading this. If so, work is awesome and it’s all I do!
'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 31, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Luis Ayala rumor?
I don’t know that I see him as an upgrade in the bullpen . . . does anyone have any numbers to otherwise persuade me?
'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 31, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions
presumably this would be a buy-low move
Looking over his stat line, Ayala’s WHIP, ERA, and walk rate are all up quite a bit this year while his K rate has remained good. Maybe they think he’d find it easy to right the ship in New York. What was rumored to be going the other way in the deal?
Didn't say
Heyman’s 1:49 p.m. entry said only that Minaya was in discussion with the Nats. Can’t imagine it would cost that much.
'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 31, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't see anything there that's tremendously exciting
Better than Muniz probably, or than Dirty the way he’s been pitching of late, but not anything to write home about. I might give up a B-level prospect for him.
I guess
maybe he’s just one of Omar’s guys from the Montreal days?
'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Jul 31, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
yes, for sure
One clear bad-GM characteristic shared by Ken Williams and Omar Minaya: getting attached to particular players early, and then overvaluing them for the rest of their careers. A smart mid-market team could easily fleece these guys by accumulating old players they “like” and dealing them for younger unknowns.
In fairness to Griffey
Doesn’t the 103 OPS+ take into account ballpark? He’s actually been above average (well, offensively at least.)
by yellomellojello on Jul 31, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions
Per ESPN.com's trade deadline blog
Freddy Garcia is available as a free agent. I could see the Mets signing him. He’s only 33, I thought he was older. He led the majors in “looking like The Rock” for seven years.
it's gotten desperate
When they start reporting who isn’t getting traded, you know it’s been a boring day.
Is it just me or did Manny get Traded?
Manny to LAD
Bay to BOS
ALaroche & BMorris (LAD), BMoss & CHansen (BOS) to PIT
Not a bad little haul for the Pirates. I actually like what theyre doing here…. Getting guys who’s values are at all time lows and selling high on their players.
And how does Theo always seem to pull the ace out of his sleeve. When his team needs something for the playoff push, he always seems to come thru. Couple that with he never seems to over pay, and the guy is just a kick ass GM.
Cant wait to see Manny out in the spacious left field at Dodger Stadium. I really cant wait to see what Torre is gonna do with him once Manny starts being Manny in dodgerland…..
concur
made shittier by the lack of METS action
"RICH PEOPLE'S WAR...POOR PEOPLE'S BLOOD."
by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Jul 31, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Colletti
Every time I think he can’t do anything dumber, he goes ahead and does this. Can we try to get him to take Brian Schneider and Endy Chavez in exchange for Russell Martin and Matt Kemp this winter?
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
only if he throws in Loney to play first base
We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!
by kingcritical on Jul 31, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
LA may be the most insanely run team right now
Pretty good haul of cheap young talent for Pittsburgh, though there is no single superstar in the batch. Great young outfielder for Boston, shoring up the aging Manny’s spot for years to come (presumably they won’t let Bay get to free agency without signing a longer contract). Los Angeles lands a born DH on the bad side of the aging curve, in one of the hardest-to-cover outfields in the National League. Nice job, Ned.
Houston is run more insanely
LA is in the race for that wretched division, and Manny, warts and all, will be a siginifcant upgrade over Juan Pierre. I can almost see the justification for the deal. Ed Wade, on the other hand, continues his bizarre middle relief fetish, and also added Randy Wolf to a team going nowhere. What the fuck is going on down there?
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 31, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions
the team that got hosed almost as bad as LA?
Tampa Bay. Instead of getting Jason Bay, their nearest rival gets him. That sucks.
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
check out ESPN.com's polls on the trade for some amusement
Apparently the majority of ESPN website viewers have heard of exactly one of the players in this trade, so they naturally assume that LA got the best end of the deal.
this made me laugh
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AmX84CKer2tdMhvAigfY8dMRvLYF?slug=sh-tradewinnerslosers073108&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
The Mets are apparently “losers” at the deadline. Why? Because they didn’t deal Jon Niese or Fernando Martinez for Raul Ibanez. I’m not kidding.
Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!
by Greenpoint Ian on Jul 31, 2008 10:46 PM EDT reply actions
I've never been so happy about nothing happening
As I said in my post, I’m not sold on the top prospects in the organization. But trading them for a piece of crap like Ibanez or Casey Blake would have been criminal.
This team is flawed. And flawed beyond the point of being fixed by one trade. Luckily, their competition is just as flawed. If they make the playoffs with this group, great! If not, oh well! The best players on this team are here for a while. There are plenty of moves to be made in the off season that will make them legitimate contenders next year.
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