Why Is Carlos Delgado Getting MVP Consideration?

by ams258 on Sep 10, 2008 10:46 AM EDT Comment 20 comments

(promoted from fanposts. --eric)

I'm thrilled that Delgado is having such a great second half for the Mets, but he has a lower VORP lower than Reyes, Wright, and Beltran. Even just looking at conventional stats, it's clear that those three are having superior seasons to Delgado. Check it out:

Player	HR	RBI	SB	CS	AVG	OBP	SLG
Reyes	13	56	47	13	.300	.359	.478
Wright	27	106	14	5	.291	.380	.513
Beltran	23	100	20	3	.278	.369	.488
Delgado	35	103	1	1	.266	.350	.518

Reyes offers phenomenal baserunning and has fantastic offensive production for a shortstop. Other than homers and a slight discrepancy in slugging percentage, Wright has been superior to Delgado in all offensive categories and has a significant advantage in OBP, the most important offensive stat. And although I wouldn't classify third base as a premium defensive position, it is certainly more difficult to find a good hitting third baseman than first baseman, so Wright offers more value for his position than Delgado. Beltran's numbers are comparable to Wright's, and Beltran plays fantastic defense at a difficult position to play.

The bottom line is that Wright, Beltran, and Reyes offer the Mets great production while playing positions that the Mets would have difficulty finding suitable replacements if any of those three players were injured. Imagine the offensive dropoff if the Mets had to replace Reyes with Damion Easley in their lineup on a daily basis. Delgado, on the other hand, offers poor defense at a position that pretty much anyone besides Mike Piazza can play, so his stats would not be as difficult to replace if the Mets lost him.

There's no denying it - Carlos Delgado has had a nice year, and I would not be at all upset if the Mets picked up his option for next year. But the guy has been nowhere near as valuable as the holy trinity of Reyes, Wright, and Beltran. It would be a shame if the sportswriters missed that when they cast their MVP ballots.

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Well,

Short answer: the media and the fans love to think about “what have you done for me lately?”

Slightly longer answer: he’s been hot since July (hell, half of his HR and RBI totals have been accrued during the last 48 games [18 of 35 and 51 of 103, respectively]), the Mets have taken over first place during this time-span, and he appears to be driving in runs at opportune moments of late. He’s also looked sharp in the field; he’s not Keith Hernandez at first base and he never will be, but he really has looked better over there over the past ten weeks or so.

It’s a narrative and, if he keeps it up for the next three weeks and the Mets take the division, it will just get bigger. As best as I can tell, Jimmy Rollins won the MVP last year for two reasons: calling out the Mets in spring training and the Mets’ collapse in September. That’s it. It’s not beyond the pale to think that the BBWA would reward Delgado for a tremendous second half that coincides with a division title.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 10, 2008 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Fine analysis

I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said. But no matter how great Delgado has been lately, he was so bad during the first half of the season that some Mets fans even wanted Moises Alou to play first. And several people on this site, myself included, even wanted the Mets to sign Richie Sexson to platoon with Delgado. Delgado hurt the Mets tremendously for several months this season, and though he has obviously been a net positive for the team, his awful performance early on prevents Carlos Delgado from being the best player in the National League this year.

by ams258 on Sep 10, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was on that boat, too

I was also ready to throw Delgado overboard in May/June.

However, for the record, I would be neither upset nor surprised if Delgado ended up winning the MVP as a result of the Mets winning the division, even though he’s definitely not been the “best player” in the NL, or on the Mets, this season. But, this is about who is the “most valuable,” not the “best player.” He’s arguably been very valuable to putting this team where it sits right now. And, being as we live in a society where games before September 1st don’t actually count in the standings and anything a player does on the field before the 8th inning in either a tie or a losing position or later does not count in their statistics, I can definitely see him garnering enough support to win the award.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 10, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The media also loves a good story

That’s what Delgado has been this season. He was player that people were ready to release or confine to the bench after two months and now he is tearing it up. That type of “overcoming adversity” is gold for the writers. Not to mention his resurgence coincided with the Mets turn around, which in the mind of the writers means, he is the one responsible for salvaging the Mets season.

Of course what gets left out of the Delgado “feel good” story is the he basically spent the first two months moping around and throwing his manager under the bus because he didn’t like the guy.

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 10, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

a more parsimonious analysis: chicks...

they dig the long ball.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Sep 10, 2008 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Shorter answer

The people who vote for MVP are not as smart as the people on this board.

by Simons on Sep 10, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

C'mon...They may be smart

But they are easily distracted. Delgado is the shiny bright toy in the toybox.

My only fear is that some asshat sports writers will start a “Dub is the real MVP” writing campaign that splits the vote. That would suck.

"The people of Houston are spending money like oil's selling at $40 a barrel."

by IanB in MD on Sep 10, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dub don't look like no MVP in the stretch run

and stretch runs have to matter. Throw all the electronic rotten tomatoes at me you like, that’s the truth. He is not even the MVP of the Mets.

I.M. Forme

by itsmetsforme on Sep 10, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree entirely with this post

I think Reyes is the Mets MVP, and Pujols the NL MVP. That being said, if Delgado gets an undeserved MVP award this season, I won’t complain as David Wright in 2007 and Darryl Strawberry in 1988 were screwed out of MVP awards. Plus, it’s another poke in the eye of the media idiots who lionized Willie Randolph as some sort of martyr. Delgado won that battle, and the Mets could very well be on their way to a division title. I want to see Wallace Matthews, Mike Celizic, and the rest humiliated.

Vote change: DePodesta/Acta in 2009!!!

by Greenpoint Ian on Sep 10, 2008 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pujols

I think people take him for granted, but even by his standards he’s having a phenomenal year. .361/.467/.655 leads the NL in all three categories; Larry Jones is close in average and OBP but trails in slugging by almost 100 points. 93 walks against 48 K’s as a power hitter is phenomenal; hitters who have more BBs than K’s are rare (Pujols, Jones, Brian Giles and Conor Jackson are the only guys with BB:K greater than 1 and enough PA to qualify for the NL MVP award) and Pujols has almost twice as many BB as K. Plus he plays phenomenal defense (not at as difficult a position as Beltran, say, of course, but the same as Delgado and Lance Berkman, who’s also having a great year). Leads the league in fancier stats like VORP and EqA (though he’s “only” third behind Berkman and ManRam in WPA). The Mets would probably still be in the hunt without Delgado, but the Cardinals are down there with the Reds and the Pirates, rather than in the thick of the wild card hunt, without Pujols.

That said, I agree with everyone else that I’ll be happy to see him win as partial repayment for Mets getting shafted in the past.

by JoshNY on Sep 10, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well said

All of the people who are promoting Delgado as a candidate would agree that the Mets would have a better record with Pujols at first than with Delgado at first; yet, they somehow still insist that Delgado is “more valuable to his team” because his team has a better record. If Pujols was a Met, they would not have been 7.5 games back in June.

I think that tying value to team performance is particularly specious in baseball. A player only accounts for 1/9 (roughly) of his team’s plate appearances in a game, and only gets a handful of chances in the field per game. I think the situation is much different in basketball where a Michael Jordan can have an impact on just about every play on both sides of the ball.

"Since we became accelerated readers, we never leave the house." - Los Campesinos

by Shomov on Sep 10, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Pujols is so, so underrated all things considered.

Talkin' Sports

by BlackOps on Sep 10, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No kidding

But he is protected by playing in St. Louis. He can be awesome or shitty and the media pretty much ignores him.

If he played for the Yankees, the kids at ESPN would have started some “He’s not a real winner” or “He is unclutch” meme like they have with A-Rod. You know, because he would be making too much money and not playing for the Red Sox.

"The people of Houston are spending money like oil's selling at $40 a barrel."

by IanB in MD on Sep 10, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

On what basis?

He’s got TEH RINGZ and he’s been as excellent in the postseason as he has in the regular season.

by JoshNY on Sep 10, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, because they are ESPN

If he played for the Yankees, facts would not matter.

"The people of Houston are spending money like oil's selling at $40 a barrel."

by IanB in MD on Sep 10, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

pfft!

if sports writers want to give delgado the MVP, thats their silly prerogative and i want wont complain but it would be up there with the ridiculousness of rollins’ award last year. i dont see it happening, nor do i see any other met getting it but t this point, who cares about anything decided by the BWAA?

a much more interesting debate of more considerable tangible implications is whether or not to pick up delgado’s option. i could not have been more against it earlier in the year but now it feels almost inevitable. i guess i would be OK with it but would prefer a dunn or teixiera.

by kendynamo on Sep 10, 2008 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

But back on topic:

While I don’t think I can support him for an MVP award at this point, I really like Delgado’s humble attitude. Asked about why he didn’t take a curtain call after his second HR last night, his response was “I don’t think it’s appropriate, I’m not on Broadway, I’m just here to do my job.” It seems like he’s not letting his hot streak go to his head, which is great.

by JoshNY on Sep 10, 2008 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh.....

He’s an entertainer and NY loves a good show. All he has to do is tip his cap and everyone has a good time. He’s a man of principle and I respect that, but loosen up a little. You get paid a ridiculous amount of money to play a game. If all it takes is a tip of a cap, just play along for christ sake.

by Omar21 on Sep 12, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pujols = MVP

But I don’t think it’d be crazy to give it to Beltran. Less deserving players have won it than Beltran in 08.

by Omar21 on Sep 12, 2008 3:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Beltran

… got shafted in 2006 because award voters love things like home run titles. If Wright “wasn’t allowed to” win last year because the Mets blew the division (even though Wright himself OPSed 1.172 in August and 1.034 in September/October) then why did Howard win in 2006 when the Phils finished 12 games out?

This year, I’ll have no gripe if Pujols wins (or Berkman, or Wright or Reyes or Beltran or Delgado obviously, even if Delgado really doesn’t deserve it), if it goes to someone else like Howard or Webb or Braun I will be irritated.

by JoshNY on Sep 12, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs