Thursday Applesauce

by Eric Simon on Sep 11, 2008 10:28 AM EDT in Applesauce

Sky Kalkman, now of SB Nation saber site Beyond the Boxscore, throws cold water on the whole "Carlos Delgado for MVP" bandwagon. Sky points out what everyone already knew: based on season-long stats, Delgado has no business even being mentioned in the MVP conversation. His cumulative stats are not impressive, and even his second-half stats pale in comparison to those of Albert Pujols, who has quietly hit .362/.467/.655 this year while providing better defense and baserunning than Delgado. None of this means that Delgado won't get significant support for the award, or even win it, just that the numbers don't really support his candidacy.

According to Jerry Manuel, Aaron Heilman has been suffering from left knee tendinitis since spring training, which could explain some of his struggles this season. Specifically, his control has been worse than his career norms, so if he isn't getting proper stability from his left (landing) knee, that could definitely be a problem. I have no idea if Jerry is just blowing smoke here, but I think we often underestimate the effect of injuries on performance (Delgado much?), so if something really is bothering Heilman then his performance in 2008 can't be terribly surprising.

Jose Reyes is now the most prolific pilferer in Mets history, passing Mookie Wilson's franchise mark for career stolen bases last night. When the dust settles, Mook will be a distant second (or third!).

Over at the NY Sun, Tim Marchman looks at how Jerry Manuel and his resurgent Mets have likely saved Omar Minaya's job this season. Even if the Mets don't ultimately make the playoffs, the fact that there have even been "meaningful games" this September is enough to give Minaya a reprieve, despite the lofty payroll and even higher expectations.

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More MVP stuff?

Eric, we all know that the writers are easily distracted and make odd choices sometimes (see Rollins, Jimmy 2007; Rodriguez, Ivan 1999). However, if Delgado has a “loud” August and September and ends up around, say .275/40 HR/120 RBI, and the Mets win the division, he’s gonna get a lot of votes. If Pujols continues on his own pace and the Cardinals make the playoffs, I think he’s got a better case. If Berkman continues doing what he’s doing and Houston sneaks in, what with Houston’s problems this year, he’s got a great case.

Numbers obviously can’t be everything in this debate (A-Rod’s 2003 MVP was a joke; that Texas team was crap with or without him), as much as they do matter. I see the appeal in a vote for Delgado. However, I gotta ask myself: are the Mets in contention this year without Delgado? Most likely, yes, because they’ve still got Beltran, Reyes, Wright, Santana, etc. Even if Houston and St. Louis miss the playoffs, they aren’t in contention right now without, respectively, Berkman and Pujols. I think the award’s gotta go to one or the other of those two.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 11, 2008 10:55 AM EDT reply actions

I posted a comment about Delgado's actual value in the BtB article

Using WPA, a position adjustment, and fielding, he’s been about 2.7 wins above replacement level (a touch above average). Beltran’s at 7.2 wins above replacement level, which is better than any season Frank Thomas or Manny Ramirez have ever had.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 11, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Beltran

He won’t really be appreciated until after he’s gone — if ever. Hopefully, at some point, Mets fans will recognize how truly spectacular a player he was.

by Eric Simon on Sep 11, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions

maybe when he's inducted in to the Hall of Fame?

except that would require the BBWAA realizing how spectacular a player he was.

Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.

by Sky Kalkman on Sep 11, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions

hot dig it he is the best

those who say otherwise… are entitled to their opinion… its just one that compares none at all to the correctness.

by kendynamo on Sep 12, 2008 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions

Also in recent news:

There will be a new home run apple at New Shea Stadium. Boo.

by JoshNY on Sep 11, 2008 11:14 AM EDT reply actions

I stopped caring about the Home Run Apple this weekend

The food is my main concern. The food service people were mailing it in big time on Sunday. It’s been a couple years (missed the 07 season) and in that time the food went from alright to not good.

"The people of Houston are spending money like oil's selling at $40 a barrel."

by IanB in MD on Sep 11, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions

That's too bad

I woulda liked to see the old Apple move along with us, but ah well. It would be nice to have one piece of Mets memorabilia in that temple of all things Brooklyn Dodger, known as CitiField.

I did enjoy the new knishes as compared to the old ones. I was more upset that they ditched apparently all of the credit card terminals. Used to be you couldn’t go ten feet without paying for something with a credit card. Only one ATM on the Upper Deck, too. Pain in my ass.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 11, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions

not to worry

My sources tell me that the will be keeping the old Apple on display somewhere. Just not over the outfield wall.

We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!

by kingcritical on Sep 11, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions

You guys are the apple of my eye

MVP?

Had enough of it. I just want our boys to win the World Series. The hell w/the individual accolades.

" I'm not always right. But I'm never wrong. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Sep 11, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions

hear, hear

by JoshNY on Sep 12, 2008 1:14 AM EDT up reply actions

Why so harsh on Omar?

Money doesn’t grow on trees.

A lot of it is tied up in Pedro, and I think we all agree Pedro was more of a symbolic signing than one that was going to pay off in VORP. He’s done what he was brought here to do.

Omar has done a phenomenal job with fill ins like Endy, Tatis and Easley. 3/5 of our rotation was brought in at the cost of a draft pick (PELF), Kris Benson (Maine) and Nady (Ollie).

Sure, not all of his fliers work out. He took very cheap stabs with some deep sleepers, but when he hits, he hits BIG. The benefit of adding Ollie and Maine at their respective costs FAR outweigh the ones that haven’t panned out.

He got Delgado to come in. He brought in Johan while holding on to our key prospects. (We only had Deolis in the first place because Omar brought him in.)

He stuck to his guns with Zito and DIDNT bring him in. He was the second highest bidder on Dice K with a bid of about 45 MILLION. That’s a very respectable bid and clearly would’ve been a good signing.

Omar wasn’t the GM yet, but I’ve read that he was the one who brought Jose Reyes to the Mets.

The Omar Era has been brilliant. We’ve all enjoyed baseball a lot more since he’s taken over.

by Omar21 on Sep 12, 2008 3:39 PM EDT reply actions

Omar = mixed bag

Omar’s been very good at grabbing top-end free agents and at grabbing the occasional undervalued player in trade (most especially, as you note, starting pitchers). But he’s shown little ability to put together a deep bench or bullpen, and that’s really hurt this year’s team. Tatis was a good pickup, for sure — but if you’re reduced to pointing to Easley and Endy as “successes” it only makes this point clearer. And need I even mention how much we’re paying Schoeneweis, and how that contract has limited the team’s bullpen flexibility?

by anonymous on Sep 12, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Huh?

If not for a freak accident to Duaner, we’d be talking about how brilliant Omar’s trade was.

Schoenweis has been great this season.

What’s wrong with the bench? He’s built a bullpen and bench using absolutely no money. Schoenweis and his 3 million are NOT handcuffing the team at all. THREE million? Are you kidding?

When the biggest blemish against a GM is using 3 mil on a relievr that had one bad year and is in the midst of anotehr good one, you have a VERY GOOD GM.

Beane spent loads of cash on Eric Chavez, Jermaine Dye, Esteban Loaiza…almost everyone Beane has spent money on flopped, yet he’s hailed as the king. Beane’s low budget has been his CRUTCH, not his constraint. When the As took their salary to the same level as mid tier teams, his investments flopped.

You don’t build a bullpen by spending money. You invest in a good pitching coach and give him some live arms. All of you defended Heilman for years (I’ve always hated him) and he sucked. Building a pen isn’t a science, it’s an art that requires good coaching and a good stroke of luck. Omar gave us the best offensive core we’ve ever had and built 3/5 of our rotation with minimal investments, and in some cases, immense value.

If you are not celebrating the Omar Era, you are completely missing the boat.

by Omar21 on Sep 13, 2008 4:11 AM EDT reply actions