Amazin' Avenue: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



New Blog: Five For Howling - for Coyotes fans Bar-right-arrows



spread the word

Mets Still In It, Have Carlos Voltron To Thank

As the late Chris Farley was wont to say, "That. Was. Awe-some."

And as Chris Walken's character 'The Continental' on SNL would say, "Wowie wow wow!"

And as Michael Corleone said in III, "Ugh -- just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in!

What more can you say? The Mets did everything in their power to lose this game, yet by some act of Jebus they didn't. They overcame another iffy start by Pedro Martinez; an "Oh yea, that's why nobody wanted Ricardo Rincon" moment of clarity; Daniel Murphy bunting with two strikes in the bottom of the ninth.

How'd they do it? Well, Ryan Church finally had a good game at the plate, collecting three hits and a walk while knocking in two runs. It was his first three-hit game since coming off the disabled list at the end of August. He came into the game hitting .203/.280/.297 in September, including a woeful 0-for-5 in Wednesday night's debacle. Whatever religion you practice (or don't), there's no denying we all went to Church on Thursday, and the Mets have seen the light.

I'm not really sure what to make of Pedro Martinez at this point. I guess he sort of had his best start since returning, striking out nine batters in six-plus innings. He also allowed seven hits and five runs to a lineup that featured maybe three Cubs regulars, and was on the hook for the loss (with an assist from Rincon) until the Mets' offense bailed him out. If the Mets pull themselves together for the final series of the season and manage to squeak into the playoffs, I don't know how I feel about Pedro starting a game. I guess that's a worry for another day.

Time to break out the #15 Carlos Voltron (or Clutchtron) custom shirts, because not only did Beltran drive in the winning run for the Mets, and not only is he one of the most udnderrated superstars in baseball, but the dude is this team's MVP. He's hitting .329/.424/.646 in September (and .282/.374/.497 overall). He is a superlative baserunner and basestealer, and is one of the best gloves in the game at a premium fielding position. He's my favorite current Met, perhaps in large part because he is so underappreciated by the masses, Mets fans in particular.

The Pirates, on the other hand, are dead to me. How does it taste, Pirates? Dead to me.

The Mets remain tied with the Brewers for the Wild Card and more to within a game of the Phillies for the NL East title. Each team has three games remaining: The Mets play the Marlins at Shea, weather permitting; the Brewers take on the Cubs; the Phillies face the Nationals.

0 recs | Comment 116 comments | Digg!

Read Related

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Actually....

…. I’m pretty sure you have Sweet Lou to thank for that win. Not that I blame him really. I’d rest my nicked up positional players and run my scrub relievers out there too if I were him.

I just wouldn’t say in a press conference a week ago that I “owed it to baseball” to play my regulars and THEN play a split squad lineup in a series crucial to the playoff picture. I’d keep my damn mouth shut or say I’m going to do what’s best for my ballclub instead of lying like a rug.

I just hope he plays the same scrub lineups against my Brewers this weekend….

Good luck! Should be fun. This is as close as I’ve been to watching Brewers playoff baseball since 82 when I was 13 years old!

I have an unreasonable dislike of Bill Hall.

by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Sep 26, 2008 8:18 AM EDT   0 recs

valid points
  • Didn’t face “Varsity Cubs” last night
  • Pinella Flip Flopping – hey, just look at it this way. He’s sort of like a presidential candidate.

I wonder though if Pinella will sit his “A” list players against the Brewers. I don’t think he will because I don’t think he wants to face the Brewers in the playoffs. All of a sudden they seem to be…gaining momentum.

Anhow…Hey Eric, is there really a Clutchtron shirt? If so, how do I get one?

by LOUtheMETSfan on Sep 26, 2008 8:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Clutchtron

You can customize your own at the Mets Team Store. I ordered my #15 Voltron shirt last night. Came to around $30 including shipping. Use code ‘SECRET’ to get 20% off customized shirts/jerseys. It expires tonight, though.

by Eric Simon on Sep 26, 2008 10:09 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Cubs vs. Brewers

I hate to say it, but I think the Cubs would rather see the Brewers in. If the Brewers win the Wild Card it means the Cubs play the 83 win Dodgers in the first round. Manny aside, the Dodgers are not a very good team.

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 26, 2008 12:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ethier? Kemp?

Billingsley? Kuroda? Lowe? Kuo? Loney?

Do you actually watch baseball?

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 12:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you need to 'tude adjustment

does every comment you make have to be insulting? chill out dude, its just a comments thread on a mets blog. seriously.

by kendynamo on Sep 26, 2008 12:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Going after...

…reg dunlop a little. Appreciate your feedback though.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 12:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes. I do watch baseball.

I also know how to read stats.
LAD Offense: 4.35 R/G, .264/.333/.398 OPS .731 OPS+ 94
NYM Offense: 4.99 R/G, .267/.341/.423 OPS .764 OPS+ 109
PHI Offense: 4.90 R/G, .254/.332/.436 OPS .768 OPS + 102

LAD Pitching: 4.01 R/G ERA+ 120
NYM Pitching 4.43 R/G ERA+ 101
PHI Pitching 4.21 R/G ERA + 114

While the Dodger pitching is clearly excellent, their offense is pretty weak, whereas the Mets and Phillies much more balanced. And since three of the five games would be played in a hitter friendly park, (hurting the best pitching staff, but helping the best offense) and I have the second best pitching staff in terms of runs allowed and ERA +, (which should be able to over match a clearly inferior offense) If I were the Cubs, I would want to play the team with the weakest offense.

But of course in a short series anything can happen.

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 26, 2008 2:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So....

…you from “Manny aside, the Dodgers are not a very good team.” to “While the Dodger pitching is clearly excellent…” and all I had to do was post a single comment.

Let’s ignore the fact that you simply choose to pretend Ethier, Kemp and Loney aren’t good players….

Manny is awesome and Dodger pitching is “clearly excellent”, and they’re “not a good team”? Um, ok.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 2:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

kemp?

i mean, he’s alright. he’s got a 105 OPS+. not bad by any means, but nothing special…troy glaus, who, according to you, sucks, has a 122 OPS+. what’s the cutoff for sucking?

by gogomets on Sep 26, 2008 3:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Kemp

I agree with all vs. Omar21 4ever, but while Kemp isn’t having himself a great season, he is something special. Meh, I’m nitpicking here. I get your point. My point is, he IS something special and will be for awhile.

by BlackOps on Sep 26, 2008 10:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

OK

I don’t have time to do a lot of statistical research so I will use OPS+ and ERA + for my argument.

After Manny the top four hitters for the 2008 LAD are: Either 125, Kemp 105, Martin 102 Loney 99. That seems very average to me. The rest are seemingly below average.
Compare that to the 2008 Mets: Wright 143, Delgado, 131, Beltran 130, Reyes 122, plus the 140 OPS+ of Dan Murphy since his arrival.
Or compare that to the 2008 Phillies: Utley 132, Burrell 123, Howard 121, Werth 118, Victorino 103.

So, yes! Manny is awesome, Either is very good, and the rest are average or worse. As a team, their offense is not very good.

And, yes. Their pitching is good. But the Mets and Phillies aces are better than the Dodgers ace. Billingsley 140 ERA+, Santana 157, Hamels, 145. In the playoffs this is where one player can make a huge difference.

So, given that the Dodger offense, with the exception of two players is not good. And Given that the ace of the Dodgers staff is not as good as the ace of the Mets or Phillies staff. And given that the Dodgers pitching staff, while very good, gets to face the 16th, 15th, 10th, and 8th worst offenses in the NL 18 times a year each. And given that the Dodgers only have 83 wins in the worst (arguably) division in baseball. Yes, I would maintain that the Dodgers, in spite of making the playoffs, are not a very good team. In fact, I would say they are an average team. And if I were the Cubs and I had a choice of facing the Phillies, Mets, or Dodgers, I would chose the Dodgers first, then the Mets, and then the Phillies.

Now if you want to cite the calming influence and winning attitude of Joe Torre as reason you wouldn’t want to face the Dodgers, we can talk.

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 26, 2008 5:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

let us not overstate this Cubs Lineup argument

Brewers fans, I hear you but it was only one game out of four and Lou still ran out two of his three best pitchers against us. You guys faced the Pirates who have put up a triple A lineup all year.
Great win but we have a long way to go. Eric you are dead on about Beltran as always.

by Endys Game on Sep 26, 2008 8:38 AM EDT   0 recs

I only wish I could have been at the game

Cos the atmosphere, all things considered, was apparently pretty nuts by the end of the game. I guess that’s what happens when the rain chases all the part-time well-wishers and families away – you get left with the die-hards. Gotta love that.

Then again, because I was home, I got inspired to order my Voltron t-shirt. So I got that going for me.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 26, 2008 9:24 AM EDT   0 recs

'twas nice to be there among the diehards...

…your brother and sister-in-law included.

It was the Mets rally poncho that did it, as I’m sure he mentioned. I’ll have four seats at the new park, so at some point let’s make some plans for a game next year, and you can rock the Voltron T.

We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!

by kingcritical on Sep 26, 2008 10:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No doubt

Lucky, rain-soaked bastards each and every one of you!

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 26, 2008 10:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Rally Poncho!!!

We rocked the rally caps and poncho. It was essential.

That was one hell of a game. I moved to the front of the Upper Deck and joined a pack of beer-bottle banging idiots to cheer for the last two innings. It was a great little gang of wet morons. Hope more like them show up tonight to make some noise.

"The people of Houston are spending money like oil's selling at $40 a barrel."

by IanB in MD on Sep 26, 2008 2:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It was loud as hell on the t.v.

Well, at least it appeared that way. I’m quite upset that I’ve never been able to attend a METS game at Shea. I would like to be around when everyone is revelling in the pandemonium of noise and bouncing up and down in the stands. It’s got to be a great experience.

During the NATS / METS series at Shea, the NATS announcers said it’s the loudest place they’ve ever broadcasted from.

by LOUtheMETSfan on Sep 26, 2008 5:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Pirates aren't dead to you - they're just dead

It’s too bad that the Pirates couldn’t come up with a “W”. Keep this in mind, however. This franchise just tied a record with their 16th consecutive losing season. This article talks about it. This record of ineptitude, by the way, spans baseball, football, hockey and basketball.

by elliot on Sep 26, 2008 9:57 AM EDT   0 recs

Thank goodness.....

..Voltron is finally getting his due.

Mets fans can be pretty disgusting, but it’s only so long until even a complete dunce can deny brilliance……at least until he goes 3 for 15, which will be enough evidence for the dunces to start shitting on him again.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 10:02 AM EDT   0 recs

Agreed

One late-inning ground out and he’s back on the shitpile.

by Eric Simon on Sep 26, 2008 10:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Maybe I'm watching a different Beltran

Yeah he had a good game last night, but I’ve seen this guy come up sour in a lot of key situations, I’d swear sometimes that bat is crazy-glued to his shoulder. I still think that money could have been better spent on 3 players. But whatever, he is better than Keith Miller or Hojo in CF.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by jrs1940 on Sep 26, 2008 10:25 AM EDT   0 recs

Um....

….I guess you just have to accept that people like this exist, and that they have a right to post their “thoughts” on the game as well huh?

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 10:32 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Basically, yes

No need to rehash what has been written here countless times. Some folks will never forgive Beltran for striking out looking to end the 2006 NLCS, and that prevents them from enjoying one of the finest position players the Mets’ franchise has ever known. Then again, that’s their problem, not mine.

by Eric Simon on Sep 26, 2008 10:34 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Gary (or Ron or Keith?) made an interesting point when Beltran came up in the 9th

Apparently before Beltran hit his super clutch grand slam against Florida, he was thinking about his at bat against Wainwright in Game 7. He badly didn’t want that to happen again. I’d expect that most baseball players would say something like “I look at each at bat one at a time.” Interesting that Beltran admitted to thinking about his past failure and wanting to overcome it.

by ams258 on Sep 26, 2008 10:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not really.

“Interesting that Beltran admitted to thinking about his past failure and wanting to overcome it.”

Describing it as failure, implies that it was fair for us to expect Beltran to come up with a hit there.

Understand that even if he swings, it will only result in a hit 1/3 of the time AT BEST, allowing for normal variance. Add to the fact that it was a hellacious pitch, and you should probably lower that to 1/8, if not 1/10.

The mad dog wrote a book called “The Greatest Sports Arguments”, or something like that. One of the debates is, “Who would you want at the plate if you needed a home run to win the game?” His choice, Sammy Sosa. Why?

Sosa was a top 10 position player of all time, enhanced or not. However, he’s certainly not one of the best “pure hitters” of all time. He wasn’t even the most prolific HR hitter. He chose Sosa for his FLAW as a hitter as opposed to his STRENGTH as a HR hitter.

McGwire and Bonds were too good for that situation, because they would take a walk. They were TRAINED that way, and it is undoubtedly the best approach. IN that spot though, Mad Dog wants a guy who will expand the zone and still offer a good shot at a HR, even if that shot was lowered to less than 5%.

This was Beltran’s problem. He was too good a hitter to hack at that pitch.

Wainwright made a hellacious pitch. Even with 10 swings at that pitch (keep in mind you also have to look out for his mid 90s heat, at least as a reliever, and his change up), and you might get a hit 1 time. Beltran took a NASTY pitch, that isn’t even called for a strike by all major league umpires (but admittedly is a strike by definition), and got called out.

To hold Beltran accountable there is being extremely unfair. Even if you expand your strike zone, that pitch was nasty enough that you STILL might not swing. That pitch almost literally broke in from the bleachers.

Wainwright threw a wicked curve on the paint. Sometimes you just have to tip your cap. To condemn Beltran for taking that pitch, would be asking him to become Mike Cameron as a player. If you love him for how great he is, you tip your cap to Wainwright and move on.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

ummmm.....ok

He was too good a hitter to swing at a pitch over the plate with the World Series on the line? 0-2, you protect the plate, its on page one of the “Tee Ball Handbook”

You want to love Beltran, by all means do, its a semi-free country, but this is one of the craziest things I’ve ever heard.

But seriously no need to rehash this, I just disagree on the Beltran love fest.

I

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by jrs1940 on Sep 26, 2008 11:14 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

selective memory

some of the few times youve seen beltran have left you with a very poor impression and thats hard to shake. i get it, it happens all the time with players, and i even agree that beltran deserves it for some of his key unclutch performances.

but if you look at the seasons he has put together and his value as an elite hitter playing elite defense at center feild, then you get, as this article points out, an under rated player who is getting paid $18 million for $25 million worth of production.

by kendynamo on Sep 26, 2008 11:21 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I have your man....

….his name is Mike Cameron. He was a Met for a while. Those must’ve been some great days for you.

He’d suck all year, but man, if he ever got to bat with the game on the line, he’d give you that added 3% chance at a hit on a pitch outside the strike zone or a pitcher’s pitch.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

However..

..I do agree that him acknowledging that it has an impact on his approach is admirable.

Beltran has repeatedly shown himself to be a man of class, dignity and a very high baseball IQ. While his comment is somewhat admirable in this day and age, it does not surprise me in the least coming from a guy like Beltran.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not looking to rehash something from 2 years ago

That would be ridiculous. I just don’t see him the same way you guys do. I’ve seen the guy loaf on way too many ground balls, and come up small when the Mets needed him. I also see a guy whose power numbers are in steady decline the last 3 years, despite playing more games this year than any previous year. Is he a good player? Yes, without a doubt. He’s very good when he wants to be. His walks are up, but I’m not sure thats why he got the $115M contract.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by jrs1940 on Sep 26, 2008 11:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ah...

…more generlizations, lacking proof.

Perhaps you need him to grind his teeth and throw some batting helmets around to know he isn’t “loafing it”.

Just to clue you into how far off the mark you are, he’s performing well beyond his contract. By MLB standards, he has been a smashing success.

You measure his performance against the MLB standard, and the Mets are getting a BARGAIN with Beltran. I know, 115 is a relatively a big number, so if he isn’t hitting 125 HRs and batting .415, I could see how the casual fan would be disappointed.

You oughta know though, that when you post comments like this, you’re only revealing yourself to be a person that is completely out of touch.

You have arguably the game’s best all around player in your own backyard, and you have no idea.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok you're absolutely right

He is the greatest baseball player of all time. I stand corrected. Mays, Mantle, Joe D, Babe, move aside, here comes a .280 hitter with 26 home runs

No need to worry about the 7 HR drop each of the last two years, or the drop in slugging percentage.

I don’t give a shit about thrown helmets, Joe McEwing threw his helmet.

Is it too much to ask for ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTEEN MILLION DOLLARS that he run hard to first base? To me that is loafing.

Like I said, you love him, I don’t. The only difference is, I don’t think any less of you for your opinion.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by jrs1940 on Sep 26, 2008 11:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

no one is saying hes a first ballot HOFer

but a 280 ave and and 26 HRS (and more importantly a 374 OBP, 497 SLG and 130 OPS+) while playing extraordinary defense at CF is pretty fucking good, and well worth the investment omar made.

by kendynamo on Sep 26, 2008 11:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If he continues at this pace...

…or close to it into his late 30s, he should be a HOF-er.

The steroid era has screwed up expectations, but if he plays at close to this pace for 15+ years pre-steroid era, he would’ve make the hall.

Roids (and Pujols, although I’m not convinced he isn’t juiced) screwed up public perception of human performance in baseball.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Injury?

Ok, so you don’t really follow baseball. We get it. Forgive us. The casual fan doesn’t join discussions like this.

Beltran had knee surgery in the offseason, but played through it, the same way he played through a bad quad in 05. What students of the game consider an admirable effort, you want to use to condemn him. Ok.

When healthy (including this season), he’s been phenomenal.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:26 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"The only difference is, I don’t think any less of you for your opinion."

This is because you’re wrong, and I think less of opinions that are wrong.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

dude, seriously

do you somehow not realize that you’re being obnoxious every time someone disagrees with you about something?

by JoshNY on Sep 26, 2008 11:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd imagine 'no'

It’s the way of the troll.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 26, 2008 11:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes I know.

I’ll try to be more diplomatic.

In a world where a VP candidate can justify her foreign policy experience with, “Well, when Putin visits the US, he has to fly over Alaska.”, I suppose I need to lower my expectations on baseball blogs.

I’ll be “nicer”.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:49 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

By the way...

…can anyone else believe she said that on national TV?

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

lol

it’s almost sickening how full of yourself you are. this has to be satire or something.

by gogomets on Sep 26, 2008 12:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I suppose....

…that was your turn. At least your consistent. Ok, my turn.

You’re a poo poo head.

Back in your court.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 12:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm playing along.

That is about as much content as I get from you, so I’m playing along.

If the presidential candidates and their VPs can patronize the whole f-ing country when running for the nation’s highest office, I can do it on a Mets blog.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 1:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It's cool

There is one on almost every board. He’s a Beltran fan, good for him. I’m not a big fan of Beltrans, but what do I know, I’m just a “casual fan” for 30 years. For all I know he is a relative. It’s his opinion and he is entitled to it.

He can dismiss me all he wants. Injuries or not, Beltran’s numbers have declined 3 straight years. At this pace, Mets will be shelling out alot of money in 2 years for a guy hitting 15 home runs.

Giants fan from the womb to the tomb

by jrs1940 on Sep 26, 2008 11:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So Talented

Beltran is so uber talented that Mets fans know he can be better than 270/370/500. He makes everything look so easy it almost seems as if he is not trying out there. Everyone remembers Beltran’s failures in 2006 but also remember his out this world postseason with the Astros. That is the Carlos Mets fans pine for.

by njnick on Sep 26, 2008 11:55 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'll give you this.

“jrs1940 as a Mets fan” > “Sarah Palin as a VP”

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 11:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh brother

well, if jrs1940 and Omar21 were running for preisdent, I’d stay the hell home. Why don’t the two of you go fight in a bar or something? You both sound like fools.

by Endys Game on Sep 26, 2008 12:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Brilliant.

Thanks for that. You’re awesome.

You do believe that don’t you? You’re awesome?

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 12:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"Beltran’s numbers have declined 3 straight years"

I’m not sure I agree with that entirely. 2006 was a career year and certainly the last two have been off that pace, but I think his 2008 has been better than his 2007 (or at least on par with 2007). The HRs are down, yes, but more doubles and triples = a SLG that’s only a bit off last year. Meanwhile, his walks are way up and his strikeouts are down, so his OBP is up. Putting them together, his OPS is almost identical to last year, and his OPS+ is a bit higher than 2007 due to the decline in overall league offense this year.

Meanwhile, he’s stolen 25 bases (the most he’s had as a Met) against only 3 CS and played stellar defense at a position that’s been even more difficult than normal when you consider how much time the Mets spent with converted infielders playing the corner outfield spots.

by JoshNY on Sep 26, 2008 12:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah we've got too many people expecting him to repeat 2006

which i doubt will ever happen. he’s quietly putting together a great season.

by gogomets on Sep 26, 2008 12:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What is that doubt based on?

He’s played at that level for weeks at a time when healthy.

Do you have this doubt just find a way to put a negative spin on Beltran? It seems some of you are determined to paint him negatively.

I can only come up with one explanation as to why Beltran would be treated this way. I’m not going to go there though…

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 12:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

huh?

that year was way over his career numbers in terms of HR and OPS+. do you expect him to hit 41 bombs again? i don’t. is that a bad thing? no. i’d be perfectly happy with 25 HR, high obp, around .500 slg, and great defense. but hey, way to assume i hate beltran. i’m actually a pretty big fan.

by gogomets on Sep 26, 2008 12:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

2006

That was Beltran’s peak season, where he slugged almost .600. He was out of this world that year, and should’ve won the NL MVP. It’s unreasonable to expect any player to repeat his peak season, and yet players are constantly held to those unfair expectations.

by Eric Simon on Sep 26, 2008 12:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

looked at the mvp voting for that year

top 3 vote getters were 1st basemen who OPS’ed over 1.000. beltran, a CF, posted a .982 OPS. not to diminish great seasons by the 3 guys in front of him, but a .982 OPS from a CF is downright ridiculous. sizemore and hamilton are having excellent years this year and they’re both not even close to .982. insane.

by gogomets on Sep 26, 2008 12:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think...

….the media and MLB are running an experiment. The same experiment that the US government is running. They want to see just how stupid the American people are.

First they made Bush the president, even when Al Gore won the election.

Then they sent us to war to kill…..uh….

Then they put one of the best players in the game, in the countries biggest market, at a marquee position and is testing the power of the media by overshadowing him with inferior players.

Then they gave us Palin.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 1:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He has been..

….a 1000 OPS guy for months at a time before. I don’t think it’s crazy to say he can do it again.

He hit 38 HRs in 04 while changing leagues, adjusting to new pitchers…..

I don’t think 2006 was an aberration. I think if healthy, that’s the kind of player he is.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 1:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Samples

It’s not really fair to take a player’s best month and say, “Hey, look what he can do! Why not a whole season?” A game, or a month, or even a season isn’t enough of a sample to establish a meaningful level of performance, yet fans and media and even managers do just that.

Players get hot for days or weeks or months, but it’s unrealistic to expect them to perform at that level over a longer period of time. You could just as easily take his worst month and say, “Look how bad he was. He is clearly capable of being that bad over a long period of time. He’s a bad player!”. The truth is somewhere in between.

by Eric Simon on Sep 26, 2008 1:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

is there a way to "ignore" someone's posts

on here, eric? as in their posts don’t appear?

by gogomets on Sep 26, 2008 2:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No, but....

….you can stop posting your pointless remarks.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 2:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You know what?

If we’re discussing this in a room, you’re in the audience.

You add nothing. You’d have no place in the discussion, so you’d be asked to watch. If you kept popping up the way you are, with your meaningless remarks, you’d be asked to leave.

You don’t like this discussion? Start your own thread about some moronic topic, where you can have a whole host of people making unsubstantiated generalizations about whatever they want.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 2:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

err

you’re delusional. neither of my degrees are in psychiatry/psychology, so i can’t help you. sorry about that. but uh, seek help. soon.

by gogomets on Sep 26, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You're a...

…..butt face.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 2:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

seriously, Eric,

how is this guy not banned yet? Does every single thread have to turn into a staring match where we see how long Omar21 can bait everyone before someone gets pissed off enough to descend to his level?

by anonymous on Sep 26, 2008 2:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

About as long as...

….it takes you to learn how to calculate win shares.

Of course, you don’t feel the need to wait for that before you use it to “support” your argument.

You’re just angry because I knew you didn’t really understand your “statistical bias”.

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 2:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

uh

didn’t he post how bill james calculates win shares? and you said something like you saw it calculated differently “somewhere.” how did that prove him wrong, again?

by gogomets on Sep 26, 2008 3:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"bait" everyone?

So I post loads and loads of points, prove you wrong with factual evidence, and you think I’m “baiting” people.

I post like 10 points, and some dude randomly comes back with the equivalent of, “No you’re wrong. He stinks.”, and I’m not supposed to be condescending?

You, the great statistical mind, support some guy saying “I remember Beltran not coming up big.”, as an argument?

Perhaps you’re just angry that I shred you and your “win shares” argument because frankly, I proved you didn’t know how win shares were calculated?

by Omar21 on Sep 26, 2008 2:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs