Early Word on Rebuilding

This only cites unnamed people "familiar with the Mets' thinking" so take it for what it's worth. Copying and pasting the interesting part...

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• Pedro Martinez is unlikely to return

• No steps will be taken toward finding a more suitable -- read productive and reliable -- second baseman until the club has a sense it can deal expensive quasi-incumbent Luis Castillo. Also, Damion Easley, despite the production he provided at second base, is not likely to return.

• Despite his strong showing this season and the plan to have him play second base in the Arizona Fall League, Daniel Murphy is most likely to be a platoon left fielder.

• The club is quite aware the contract demands of Scott Boras client Oliver Perez are likely to be exorbitant. The Mets are interested in re-signing the potential free agent, but they already are asking, "At what price?"

• The Mets still need at least one more starting pitcher -- and two if Perez bolts. And one will have to be a 200-innings guy.

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One year in and the Luis Castillo contract is already an albatross. Great.

2 months ago JoshNY Comment 23 comments 0 recs |

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Murphy as a platoon LF?

Why platoon? Is there overwhelming evidence to suggest he can’t hit lefties? I know he only had 13 PA’s vs. lefties in the majors but he did hid OPS. over 1.000 in those PA’s. Does any one have his minor league splits?

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 30, 2008 3:32 PM EDT 0 recs

Murphy's minor league splits

Courtesy of the aptly named Minor League Splits dot com (stats shown are batting average/OBP/SLG/OPS):

2006 (cumulative Gulf Coast/Kingsport/St. Lucie, 80 AB):
vs. RHP .195 / .333 / .366 / .699
vs. LHP .231/ .286 / .231 / .517

2007 (St. Lucie, 513 AB):
vs. RHP .299 / .353 / .457 / .810
vs. LHP .257 / .314 / .362 / .676

2008 (Brooklyn, 14 AB):
vs. RHP .667 / .667 / .667 / 1.334
vs. LHP .375 / .375 / .375 / .750

2008 (Binghamton, 354 AB):
vs. RHP .312 / .379 / .502 / .881
vs. LHP .301 / .362 / .488 / .850

2008 (New York, 131 AB, but only 13 AB vs. LHP):
vs. RHP .306 / .391 / .455 / .846
vs. LHP .400 / .462 / .700 / 1.162

Based on sample size concerns, I think you mainly have to go with the splits from 2007 and the portion of 2008 spent in Binghamton. (Murphy played one game in New Orleans this year as well, but 5 plate appearances, all against RHP, don’t really tell us much.) In 2007 Murphy had a rough time with left handed pitchers, but in Binghamton this year his splits were pretty darn close to even. In that very small sample size against LHP with the Mets, the Irish Hammer certainly didn’t embarrass himself or anything. Based on this, I don’t really see any reason to conclusively decide that he should be thought of as a platoon player.

More broadly, my biggest problem with thinking of Murphy as a possible everyday outfielder is that he’s a pretty bad outfielder. If he can try to learn 2B in fall ball and work on it over the winter, that seems like a better use of his time; his offense from even a below-average middle infielder would be worth more than from an average corner outfielder, assuming he could develop into one.

by JoshNY on Sep 30, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Thanks for the research

I agree it would be a better use of time to try and develop him as a second basemen. While I think he can develop into a very good hitter, I’m not sure he will develop the type of power you would want out of a corner outfielder especially given his defensive liability.

And it seems way too early to pigeonhole him as a platoon guy.

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 30, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

Platoon Irish Hammer?

I don’t get it, at least as an outfielder. He’s capable but not exactly, well, comfortable-looking out there. Does this anticipate the re-signing of Tatis?

Can’t say that I would disagree with Pedro and Easley going bye-bye, if only because this team really can’t afford to keep relying on guys in their mid- to late-30s to carry the team. Maybe Ramon Martinez is the new Damion Easley?

Ollie Ollie Ollie . . . I’d almost think the smartest move would be for whatever team that signs him give him a 10-year deal at the minimum with hell of incentives. Seems like the only way to force some accountability for his perpetual inconsistencies from game-to-game or inning-to-inning, but also makes him a tradeable commodity when he inevitably goes balls up with a 6.00 ERA and a 1:1 K/BB ratio some year. I only sort of kid with this proposal.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 30, 2008 3:43 PM EDT 0 recs

Whatever happens

Ollie should always be remembered as a good desperation trade. He and Bert for Nady was pretty good considering.

He was also part of another decent trade when he and jason Bay were traded to the Pirates for Brian Giles.

"The people of Houston are spending money like oil's selling at $40 a barrel."

by IanB in MD on Sep 30, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

Castillo

I caught “Loudmouths” the other day. Chris Carlin made the point that Castillo was re-signed mainly because he is really good buddies with Johan from their days with the Twinkies. The thought being that keeping Luis around would help make Johan more comfy. I’m not sure I buy that but if it is even remotly close to the truth and it worked (meaning Johan was more comfortable coming to town and it showed in how he pitched) I guess I’m O.K. with Luis for another season. But I would of course prefer an upgrade. Think the Jays will part with Eckstein?

I heard that the Mets will take a long look at Manny. Not sure how I feel about that.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Sep 30, 2008 4:06 PM EDT 0 recs

Manny

I would go nuts if the Mets signed Manny. Partly because it is a bad idea, and partly because it is a great idea. His antics would distract everyone from CarlosB, CarlosD, Dub and Jose when they hit a slump (because Manny will be complaining about something all the dang time.) But also it would add another 100-rbi threat in the line-up. Oh damn, if Church’s brain is better, the line-up could be pure evil.

Of course, a Manny deal would only be acceptable in the form of a two-year deal (for me, at least.) If he got a 6-years deal I’d barf.

"The people of Houston are spending money like oil's selling at $40 a barrel."

by IanB in MD on Sep 30, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

i think you said it

"I would go nuts if the Mets signed Manny. Partly because it is a bad idea, and partly because it is a great idea. "

All things considered, I could live with Manny in left for a bit. I mean did you see the play where he catches the ball, high fives the fan, and then doubles up the runner? Cmon! The hamma is unfortunately also a hammer in the field. And I would like to see just how strong the Flushing curse is—it ruined Alomar and Glavine, could it destroy Manny? Omar was supposedly infatuated with Manram just years ago. Is there still time to install a green monsta at Citi?

If things go the way they are going, we fans may be able to pick up the naming rights to the new park for a song. My preference is “Mookie Field” at Choke Park.

As for the preposterous idea that Castillo was signed to bring comfort to Johan, i think if Johan wanted comfort, he could just shove a couple stacks of us currency behind him. Greenbacks are really soft when piled up just right.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself in to trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Oct 1, 2008 1:07 AM EDT up 0 recs

ooh

I like “Mookie Field.”

Personally, I have no plan to ever refer to it as “Citi Field” if I can help it and I’m open to suggestions for how I should refer to it, though I’m leaning towards just “Shea” or “New Shea.”

by JoshNY on Oct 1, 2008 1:26 AM EDT up 0 recs

I agree with your preference for an upgrade at 2B

I’m not sure I agree with the proposition that David Eckstein would constitute an upgrade.

I agree with IanB that I’d be happy to have Manny for a couple of years, but I have a hunch that the Yankees will offer him more money than would make sense for anyone else and more years that would make sense for anyone else so that he can beat up on the Red Sox for some perceived wrong that probably only exists in his head.

by JoshNY on Sep 30, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Eckstein was mentioned in complete jest.

The time has come for someone to put his foot down. And that foot is me.

by sireric on Sep 30, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

sorry

I need to calibrate my

by JoshNY on Sep 30, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Castillo

His contract became an albatross the moment it was signed. I wasn’t expecting Easley to come back, since it’s pretty obvious that the Mets need to get younger on the bench. Which means Anderson (thank Jeebus) is also probably gone. I’ve been expecting Omar to make an offer to Tatis, but I wonder if he’s finally recognizing that this was a bit of a fluke season. I’d love to be wrong, but Omar does have a history of rewarding veterans who provide surprising offense off the bench (see Valentin and Marlon).

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 1, 2008 12:26 AM EDT up 0 recs

Adding to the frustration

is that all us Met fans knew from the get-go that the Castillo extension was bad news. Oh and we also know that signing Schoeneweis wasn’t going to end well. Why doesn’t Omar ask us before he goes off on these projects? We’re available any time.

by Simons on Oct 1, 2008 1:48 AM EDT up 0 recs

"we also knew that signing Schoeneweis wasn't going to end well"

Did we? In the winter before the 2007 season? My impression then was that he was a pretty average pitcher who’d been a starter in the past and thus gave us some flexibility out of the bullpen. At the time I thought we should’ve held on to Darren Oliver, who’d been great for us in 2006 (especially considering he was only paid $600k that year), but I can see why they might have preferred the fact that Show is three years younger and I don’t recall thinking at the time the he’d be such a disaster.

Even last winter, I think we were all pretty confident that he could be effective as a lefty specialist (in 2007 his OPS against by right handed hitters was .963 while by lefties it was .556) and I think maybe we were even right about that (2008: righties .955, lefties .520), though it’s of course open to debate whether Feliciano should have been considered “the lefty specialist” (his splits in 2007 were pretty even, RH .697/LH .483, but this year were much more pronounced, RH 1.014/LH .575) and then maybe Schoeneweis wasn’t necessary.

What’s not open to debate is that they were BOTH horrendous against right handed hitters this year and that both were used a whole lot against them anyway (Feliciano 118 times, Schoeneweis 130 times) and that this killed us.

by JoshNY on Oct 1, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up 0 recs

Schoenweis

If he was used properly, the deal OK. Show should be almost exclusively a LOOGY, and although he’s paid a bit too much for it, I could live with him being paid just for that. But the contract looks worse because he’s been allowed to face far too many righties. Was anyone really expecting him to pitch in long relief or get an occasional spot start? I remember hearing about his versatility when we signed him, but the splits suggested he was strictly a left-handed specialist.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 1, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

Ridiculous

We can’t have the same team though it’s easy to agree the nucleus must (and will) stay intact. Eckstein would be a great 2B to pick up. A good candidate for an FA is left or right field. I love Murphy, would like to see a place for him next year. If Church needs to go, he needs to go.

Can’t go with the same team. We’ll have the same results. Sorry.

The 2008 NY Mets: Pedro hurt already. Delgado still sucks. Mets still can't beat the Braves. Beltran only plays 6 innings. WTF with Pelfrey?? Mets win 60 in a row. Freakin' Wagner. PLAYOFFS, NO WAY?!

by ZaBlanc on Oct 1, 2008 8:37 AM EDT 0 recs

I don't think that

anyone here is arguing that we should go into next year with the “same team.” We all recognize that the bullpen needs major work, Castillo is horrendous, the corner outfield slots and the catcher could probably stand to have an upgrade and the bench could use some guys under the age of 35. I don’t see why Irish Hammer doesn’t at least merit an opportunity to win 2d base (he is, after all, an infielder) especially because he is not a good outfielder.

It’s early in all this and I haven’t devoted any time to see who’s really out there to get. But I think we all realize changes need to be made on the field.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 1, 2008 8:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

yeah there is PLENTY of room for change

the only things we DONT need are 3B, SS, CF and a #1 SP. everything else is up for grabs in my book.

if church can stay healthy than you put him down for RF. maine and plefrey will hopefully likewise stay healthy and be solid. but what else? castillo blows, schnieder blows, the bullpen almost completely blows. murphy in left? maybe. resign ollie? maybe not. pick up delgado’s option? eh, who knows. oh also the whole bench blows too except for castro.

either way, no way will this be the same team next year.

by kendynamo on Oct 1, 2008 9:24 AM EDT up 0 recs

fuck Eckstein

and why does Church need to go?

by DoctorK16 on Oct 1, 2008 9:42 AM EDT up 0 recs

he didn't say Church needs to go

if I’m not mistaken, he said (paraphrasing) that we should sign a FA corner outfielder and should find a way to make the Irish Hammer a starter, and if that means Church is the odd man out then so be it

by JoshNY on Oct 1, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up 0 recs

but why sign another Corner OFer and get rid of Church?

if youre going to make Murph the starter than you just need to bolster the bench at that point. unless you end up trading church for pitching or something, there no reason to start the irish hammer over church, as much as ive enjoyed watching murphy this year.

by kendynamo on Oct 1, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up 0 recs