Salvage Yard: Mets 6, Phillies 3

by Eric Simon on Sep 8, 2008 12:36 AM EDT in Aftermath

The Mets had an opportunity this weekend to put the Phillies in a very deep hole, and they came out of the series with one game shaved off their lead. Now two games up with 19 to play, the Mets have played their last regular season games against the Phillies and very much have a battle on their hands for NL East supremacy.

After sweeping the Brewers in Milwaukee, it was more than a little disappointing to come home and drop the first two games to the Phillies, managing to score just two runs in the process. Despite dropping those first two, though, the Mets would still wind up in good shape if they could only win the third game. Johan Santana pitched himself to a 1-0 deficit -- and almost more -- before the Mets came to bat. Aside from a homerun two innings later to Ryan Howard (why does anyone pitch him middle-out?), that first inning was the only real trouble Santana had with the Phillies.

On the other side of the diamond, Cole Hamels was battered around quite a bit through five innings of work. He allowed nine hits and five runs, most of which came courtesy of Carlos Delgado, who had three hits -- two homeruns -- and drove in four. He has no business being an MVP candidate, but he *has* been great over the past ten weeks, and the Mets almost certainly wouldn't be in such a favorable position were it not for Delgado's bat. It's exceedingly rare that a team's fourth-best hitter be named the MVP of the league (Rolls was only the Phillies' third-best hitter when he took home the MVP last year), but fans and media types love a good story, and Delgado is certainly that.

The Mets get another day off before playing two at Shea against the Nationals. The Nats took two-of-three against the Phillies last week, but let's hope they roll over for the Mets.

Big winners: Carlos Delgado, +28.8% WPA, Johan Santana, +16.6% WPA
Big losers: Fernando Tatis, -4.7% WPA, David Wright, -2.6% WPA
Teh aw3s0mest play: Beltran RBI single in 1st, +12.3% WPA
Teh sux0rest play: Howard homerun, -9.6% WPA
Total pitcher WPA: +23.9%
Total batter WPA: +%26.1
GWRBI: Carlos Delgado

Game Thread Roll Call

Nice job by LOUtheMETfan; his effort in the game thread embiggens us all.

Name	# of Posts
LOUtheMETfan	65
BobbyV_Incognito	53
pingel	51
itsmetsforme	17
Simons	9
DoctorK16	8
IanB in MD	7
elifriedman	4
gogomets	4
Shomov	1

0 recs | Comment 31 comments

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what is the definition of MVP?

Yeah, I know what the acronym stands for, but does anyone have a good definition? What’s the criteria? Is it defined by MLB? Does a player have to have the best stats in order to be an MVP or is it how the player has produced in certain situations?

Alex Rodriguez has garnered MVP honors in the (03, 05, 07) But in the clutch (sorry) the guy’s a doormat. After the departure of W. Randolph this season, C. Delgado has seemed to just hit home runs at the most OPPORTUNE time. Opportune doesn’t have to be to mean at the end of the game or down by one run. When the team is stagnating, the guy knocks one out and it seems to rejuvenate the team or at least keep them in the game.

R. Church delivered some offense in the earlier part of the season (granted it wasn’t overly impressive) but the guy seemed to hit when everyone else (read top 4 batters) weren’t doing much comparatively speaking. Delgado has truly turned his performance around. Look, there’s not too much effort for a 1st baseman so there’s not much to be said for his defense, but for a guy to be mired in such a ridiculously poor slump during the 1st quarter of the season and then turn it around like he has, well…The guy’s got my vote…For the team anyway.

O.K., it’s at this time where someone throws out a bunch of impressive stats and tells me where I’m wrong. Go ahead. get it over with.

" I don't read the script. The script reads me."

by LOUtheMETSfan on Sep 8, 2008 9:26 AM EDT 0 recs

MVP criteria, per the BBWAA

There is no clear-cut definition of what Most Valuable means. It is up to the individual voter to decide who was the Most Valuable Player in each league to his team. The MVP need not come from a division winner or other playoff qualifier.

The rules of the voting remain the same as they were written on the first ballot in 1931:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.
2. Number of games played.
3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.
4. Former winners are eligible.
5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

You are also urged to give serious consideration to all your selections, from 1 to 10. A 10th-place vote can influence the outcome of an election. You must fill in all 10 places on your ballot.

Keep in mind that all players are eligible for MVP, and that includes pitchers and designated hitters.

Only regular-season performances are to be taken into consideration.

I found this via FJM and this page.

We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!

by kingcritical on Sep 8, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up 0 recs

DANG KING! YOU DA MAN!

Seems that 4 out of 5 of the criteria are not TOO stat related and go more on opinion.

Well done KING…Thanks!

" I don't read the script. The script reads me."

by LOUtheMETSfan on Sep 8, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up 0 recs

you're welcome

We've got ourselves a ball club, the Mets of New York town!

by kingcritical on Sep 8, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up 0 recs

and that's why justin morneau and jimmy rollins win MVP awards

ugh

by gogomets on Sep 8, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

fans and media types love a good story

And the voters love a guy who leads the league in RBI. Delgado is behind only Howard and Wright. He’s got a good shot at the award.

by Simons on Sep 8, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

To be fair

Morneau was a much saner pick than Rollins. Morneau was at least the second or third best player in the league that year; Rollins was barely the third-best player on his own team.

by Eric Simon on Sep 8, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up 0 recs

saner, yes

Ortiz, Mauer, Hafner (even Jeter, with a .900 OPS at shortstop with 34 steals…i hate jeter but that’s some good shit) would have been better picks.

i’ll amend my statement anyway. 1988, kirk gibson. insanity. i know straw and mcreynolds split voters, but that’s still awful.

by gogomets on Sep 8, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

I love #3

Screw how good you are at baseball. As long as you are nice and try hard!

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 8, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up 0 recs

This means

David Eckstein begins each season with a 100-point lead in the MVP race. His performance on the field is what ends up killing his chances each year.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 8, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

he's a grinder too

" I don't read the script. The script reads me."

by LOUtheMETSfan on Sep 8, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

i can't find a stat that proves a-rod's been bad in the clutch

weird

by gogomets on Sep 8, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

It's because you just have to feel it in your gut

If you try to rationalize things with “numbers” and “statistics,” it messes up the desired story-line.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 8, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

no, i'm clearly just not looking hard enough

i looked at all his splits on B-R and went through his stats on baseball prospectus…only thing left to do is ask skip bayless what he thinks, right?

by gogomets on Sep 8, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Good luck with Skip Bayless

Remember to wear a raincoat so as not to get covered with spittle.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 8, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'm not sure whether it's actually true over his entire career

Look at his splits this year and some of them are pretty bad though

by JoshNY on Sep 8, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

over his career

i saw 1 situation on B-R in which his OPS is under .900. (2 outs w/ risp) i wasn’t very thorough, but an OPS under .900 jumped off the screen.

by gogomets on Sep 8, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

addendum

his 9th inning OPS is .839. but doesn’t that make sense? in the 9th you’re probably facing the other team’s best pitcher, no?

by gogomets on Sep 8, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

gogo

the stat is called: POST SEASON

" I don't read the script. The script reads me."

by LOUtheMETSfan on Sep 8, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

To be fair

Rodriguez’s post-season track record is insanely spastic – in the 2000 ALCS against the Yankees he put up an OPS of 1.253, but with only 2 HRs and 5 RBI over 6 games. In the 2004 ALDS against the Twins he put up a 1.213 OPS but, again, only one HR and three RBI in four games. Then you have the 2005 ALDS against the Angels (.581 OPS with no RBI) or the 2006 ALDS against the Tigers (.142 OPS with no RBI or runs!).

I won’t waste much space defending a guy who drops off so dramatically in terms of runs, power and RBI but I think it might be over-generalizing to just drop “post season” on the dude.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 8, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

sample sizes in the postseason are so small

tough to make an accurate judgment of performance. would you judge someone’s season based on the first 5 or 7 games? also, you’re gonna be facing the best of the best in the playoffs, so it makes sense for the numbers to drop off.

by gogomets on Sep 8, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

True

Which, I imagine, would be the easiest explanation for the extreme disparities from series to series. That’s why I’m saying it isn’t so easy to just drop that bomb on a guy.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 8, 2008 6:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

unclutch?

" I'm not always right. But I'm never wrong. "

by LOUtheMETSfan on Sep 8, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Scott Brosius

… had a career .696 postseason OPS. Now THAT is unclutch.

by JoshNY on Sep 9, 2008 12:00 AM EDT up 0 recs

but brosius is a True Yankee

by gogomets on Sep 9, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up 0 recs

maybe he's just the "LVP" in the post season

Least Valuable Player

" I'm not always right. But I'm never wrong. "

by LOUtheMETSfan on Sep 8, 2008 11:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

"(why does anyone pitch him middle-out?)"

Because Brain Schneider is the catcher and he sucks at calling games!

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 8, 2008 9:40 AM EDT 0 recs

Nice to see one win

After sitting through that dreadful 6-2 loss in the afternoon. It was also nice to spend one last time at Shea with my brother and sister-in-law before they take the place down and it was nice to meet kingcritical and his assorted family and comrades for some afternoon drinking on Saturday. The definition of clutch.

After 22 years of seeing ballgames there, I’m gonna miss Shea. But after peeking in and around CitiField, I’m pretty dang pumped to start watching games there.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 8, 2008 9:42 AM EDT 0 recs

CPP

did you purchase a brick at CITI field?

Every Tuesday some guys and gals here in D.C. get together for wings, beer and chit chat. This one METS fan here purchased a brick for the new CITI field. Family’s name is on it. Just curious if you did the same?

" I don't read the script. The script reads me."

by LOUtheMETSfan on Sep 8, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up 0 recs