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What Will The Mets Do Without Billy Wagner?

So, yea, this happened. Billy Wagner will undergo left elbow surgery and miss not only the remainder of the 2008 season, but most-if-not-all of the 2009 season. I think most of us were prepared for the former; Wagner had been showing some signs of progress in the days leading up to his most recent setback, but even the most optimistic fan couldn't have expected much out of him this month (or next, Jebus willing). The Mets now have some decisions to make that will affect the final three weeks of this season and six months of next and beyond.

First things first: What does Wagner's injury do for the Mets' Septemeber outlook? Look at the last four weeks and you'll have a pretty good idea of what the coming weeks will look like. Losing Wagner means losing the best reliever the Mets had this season. I'm told that this was one of the worst -- if not the very worst -- season of Wagner's career. Aside from the blown saves I don't really see it: his WHIP is under .9, his strikeout and walk rates were both superb. But whatever, in a sea of Heilmans and Sanchezes, Wagner was at the very least a PVC life raft with copious cup holders and a DVD navigation system (if you're searching for a hidden analogy there don't waste your time).

Wagner could very well have thrown his last pitch as a Met, and he certainly has his share of vilifiers. He had a proclivity for running his mouth and alienating himself from his teammates, but he is one of the handful of best relivers the Mets have ever had (that's a topic for an offseason post, I think), and the Mets will miss him very much during this and next regular season, even if his somewhat limited career postseason track record left much to be desired.

In Wagner's absence the Mets will continue to do what they've done in.. uhh.. Wagner's absence. Luis Ayala is the de facto closer, at least until such time as he implodes and/or otherwise proves himself to be unfit for the job. I hope it doesn't come to that; I've heard nothing but good things about Ayala the person and he was a very good reliever for the Expos/Nationals a couple of years ago. He is still relatively young and has some closing experience, and the Mets got him for next-to-nothing, so if he can be a productive bullpen arm for them, closing games or otherwise, his acquisition will be a major coup.

Behind Ayala, the Mets will look to cobble together a few innings a game for as long as they can. Heilman, Sanchez, Pedro Feliciano, Joe Smith, et al. can't all fail miserably every day, so Jerry Manuel's most important task over the next nineteen games will be to mix-and-match them and to be fairly liberal with the fast hook when he sees that one (or many!) of his guys doesn't have it on a particular day. Brian Stokes has been astonishingly good in his 17.1 innings as a reliever, compiling a 1.04 ERA and a 13-to-1 strikeout-to-walk ratio. Look for Manuel to lean on him more heavily in the season's waning days.

Beyond this year, the Mets will probably look to bring in an established closer to take over in 2009 and beyond. Omar Minaya likes Ayala, but I think he'd be much more comfortable with Francisco Rodriguez or someone else. There are some problems, of course. For starters, Rodriguez may be going through the worst season of his career. Despite gaudy save totals, his K/9, BB/9 and xFIP are all career lows (or highs; whichever is bad). Having said that, K-Rod is one of the elite closers in baseball and just turned 26 this year. He has logged a lot of relief innings for a pitcher his age, throwing 86 innings as a 21-year-old in 2003 and 65+ in every season since. He'll also cost an arm and a leg in both years and annual salary. The Mets got Wagner three offseasons ago for four years and $40 million; Rodriguez will likely be in the 5/$75 range, I'm guessing. That may be a bit high, but I don't expect it to be much less.

Another interesting name out there is Kerry Wood, who has proven to be relatively healthy this year and has performed well as the Cubs' closer. His strikeouts are way up and he has only allowed two homeruns in 58 innings. He turned 31 in June and his arm is always a pitch away from falling off, but if you could get him for 2/$20 million or something, that might be far preferable to backing up the truck for Rodriguez.

The alternatives to Rodriguez and Wood are not awe-inspiring: Eddie Guardado, Damaso Marte, Juan Cruz, Kyle Farnsworth, Tom Gordon, Jorge Julio, Byung-Hyun Kim, LaTroy Hawkins, Braden Looper, Brandon Lyon, Guillermo Mota, David Weathers. Retreads, former Mets, failed closers, crusty dinosaurs, assorted ghosts of Christmases past. Smart money -- brand spanking new Citi Field money -- is on Rodriguez, but the Angels and a number of other teams will be after his services, so even if the Mets are willing to pony up there are no guarantees that he's even theirs for the taking.

The bottom line is that the Mets aren't really any different today than they were yesterday. They have no Billy Wagner, so they're just going to have to make do. Next season is a different story, but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

0 recs  |  Comment 26 comments |

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Ayala has the John Franco feel

when he pitches it seems like there are runners all over the place, and every at-bat goes at least 8 or 9 pitches, with one or two monstrously hard-hit foul balls—almost all of this happening after two easy ground ball outs to start the 9th. Yet, like Franco, he manages. He seems to get a lot of ground balls, which, if there are half as many runners on base as it seems, is a good thing. We have solid-to-spectacular infield defense.

Hey, the Cards won with Adam Wainwright closing games and Anthony Reyes (and that idiotic-looking straight-billed cap) starting them. The point is that, yeah, we no longer have an elite closer. Neither do some other playoff teams but I suspect we have better defense than practically all of them. Our bullpen issues are really almost exclusively in the 6th through 8th innings—not at the back end—and that hasn’t changed all year. If we can just slog our way to the post-season, where we’ll have more arms to bring in for one or two batters, I think we can be okay.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Sep 9, 2008 10:36 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Another point about closing

I’m concerned, but I’d be panicked to the point of insanity if we had Milwaukee’s defense for instance. That team, it seems, MUST have a strikeout-oriented closer to feel good about themselves in the post-season.

On the other hand, this team, I think the Mets are well-suited defensively to play however the pitcher pitches. When Pelf is on his game, getting a million ground balls we convert them to outs. When Maine is on getting pop-ups, flyballs, and strikeouts—no problem. We don’t have to sacrifice offense, and don’t absolutely have to make a lot of defensive substitutions late in games.

We don’t have a great closer, but I think Ayala’s recent performance coupled with what he had done a couple seasons ago suggests that he’s competent. On the other hand…

If Feliciano didn’t suck like a crack whore on the first of the month… (sigh)
If “filthy” Sanchez could just get hot… (sigh)
If Show could do anything vs righties… (sigh)

These are the things that trouble me about winning the division, much less doing anything in the post season.

"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin

by dcrockett17 on Sep 9, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's a little bit funny...

how MANY of the names on that list of bad alternatives are former Mets.

I continue to believe that this situation wouldn’t be so bad if Jerry didn’t feel like he needed to have A CLOSER who he uses in the ninth inning come hell or high water. If the Mets are playing the Phillies (a bit of a false hypothetical in that they’re done with the Phils for the remainder of the regular season) and they have a one run lead in the ninth inning and Ryan Howard comes to the plate, what they need is a LHP, not someone who’s been somehow anointed as THE CLOSER.

by JoshNY on Sep 9, 2008 11:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jorge Julio!

Bring back Jorge Julio! Yeah!

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 9, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This season

No point in thinking on the next month or so because we dance with the bullpen what brung us. There’s nothing to be done but use the guys effectively and, as Cerrone pointed out on MetsBlog today, Jerry’s had over a month to figure out bullpen roles without Wagner and the team has done pretty well (22-11 over that time). So, keep our fingers crossed and hope the bully can keep pitching as well as they’ve pitched over the last ten days or so.

We can also only hope that Omar doesn’t overreact in the offseason and throw a huge multi-year deal with so many holes that need addressing during the winter. K-Rod might be young enough/talented enough to merit a huge contract but I don’t know that I want the Mets to throw him money that could be used to address catcher/two starting spots/second base/middle relief/maybe another corner outfielder. Maybe the solution is already here in the system; maybe someone like Ayala (or John Maine?) can fill the role (THE CLOSER, as JoshNY might say); or maybe the Mets could at least try and work outside the box a bit and go with the committee thing. The latter solution won’t happen but it’s not like there are such wonderful alternatives in the free agent market this winter.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 9, 2008 11:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Easy...Sign this guy!

" I'm not always right. But I'm never wrong. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Sep 9, 2008 11:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

gogomets, you're always preaching stats

why don’t you take a look at what he’s doing this season compared to ANYONE else in the METS bullpen or for that matter in MLB.

geesh

" I'm not always right. But I'm never wrong. "

by LOUtheMETandNATSfan on Sep 9, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stats inconveniently get in the way of our desired perceptions.

I don’t know that anyone would dispute that K-Rod would be an upgrade over, say, Heilman or Sanchez but see the peripherals noted below. Wagner and about nine other guys are putting up better numbers than K-Rod. Would he be an upgrade in the pen here? Possibly. Is it worth throwing 5 or 6 years and $75 million or $90 million at him to find out? No way.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 9, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

neither of those posts mentioned stats

it was actually the opposite of “preaching stats”

but anyway:

he’s on my fantasy team, so i see what he does every night. my observation: he’s no joe nathan, mo rivera, jon papelbon, or brad lidge. saves aren’t as bad as wins in terms of evaluating pitchers, but joe borowski had 45 saves last year with a 5.07 ERA and a 1.43 WHIP.

as catsmeat noted, he’s not worth the money he’ll be commanding.

by gogomets on Sep 9, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again

I dunno how I feel about possibly paying a closer upwards of the 5-6 years and probably $15 million per year K-Rod is gonna get, especially in light of all the issues that need addressing.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 9, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, I know how I feel about it.

And it ain’t good.

Bullpen construction is one of the hardest tests of a GM’s skill, it seems to me, because the market for relief pitching is so tumultuous. Any given relief pitcher’s price fluctuates very rapidly from (possibly) undervalued to (often grossly) overvalued based on his most recent two years or so of performance. This makes putting together a bullpen well a matter of taking a lot of shrewd gambles on arms that may be better than you’re paying for; putting together a bullpen badly is usually a matter of overpaying for a few arms so much that your flexibility is hampered when they don’t live up to expectations, sometimes also perhaps a problem of having too few low-cost, high-upside arms in the mix. Omar has shown no aptitude at all for either side of this equation, doing things like massively overpaying Schoeneweis and hoping against logic for good performance from “proven veterans” like Roberto Hernandez or Duaner Sanchez rather than from lesser-known arms with higher potential upside.

by anonymous on Sep 9, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The key to bullpen construction

In my opinion the key is to find guys with valuable and repeatable skills and not gaudy numbers. This means placing more emphasis an K/G, BB/G, GB, First pitch strike, Strike-Ball ratio, etc… These things will fluctuate from year to year more with relievers because they operate with a smaller sample size than starters. Unfortunately, too many GM’s (Omar included) still place an emphasis on traditional and situational stats like holds, saves, and E.R.A. None of these are good indicators of bullpen success. This is why K-rod will get a big contract in spite of all the red flags.

The only hope is that so many teams will be involved in the bidding it will drive the Mets out of the market. Let’s go Texas!!! (or Anaheim, Seattle, Detroit, St. Louis, Tampa Bay, and Cleveland)

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 9, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When did we

become budget oriented? I dont mean this as an attack but I dont remember the Mets ever having a hard cap. So come next year when there will be additional revenues generated by the new ball park, Im sure the Wilpons will green light Omar to spend via free agency.

Gazing into my crystal ball I see Omar going hot and heavy over KRod (his love of Latin born players and the glaring hole for THE CLOSER). For his services it becomes a three dog race. Both New York teams(the Mets sell him on a chance to win and good money while the Yankees sell him one year of setup and the best offer dollar wise that any team can offer) and Los Angeles (AL) all fighting to sign/retain his services.

As far as the holes on the team Omar tries to look within first and then falls back upon free agency. Ollie will/should be resigned. Pedro is brought back but at a reasonable price, if not then Omar goes with Niese/free agent signing as our fifth starter (Johan/Pelf/Ollie/Maine). Schneider will more than likely be brought back but Id much rather let Ramon get a shot at starting. Murphy gets every chance in the world to become our secondbaseman of the future. If not then Im thinking Omar looks at Orlando Hudson who could slot very nicely into the number two hole of our lineup (Easley is also there as an alternative with the suckhole named Castillo also taking time due ot his contract). Evans is given a shot in left until FMart is ready to be called up. Tatis is our fourth outfielder…

The bullpen is the one area that needs a rehaul. Id personally waive Heilman and Schoenweiss. The wont have any value in the trade market (unless Omar can find another Ayala deal) for either of these guys. Perhaps Omar trots Heilman out there every fifth day in Spring Training and tries to sell him to someone for a middle reliever and a prospect but other than that I dont see them getting the Mets anythign in return. If not perhaps we just make Heilamn the swing man…. We have our specialists in Smith and Feliciano. Stokes and Ayala are the new 7th and 8th inning guys with KRod as THE CLOSER.

Seems like a pretty feasible plan without completely mortgaging the future. KRod, Ollie and ODawg (potentially) are all young enough that 3-6 year deals for these guys wouldnt kill our future or hinder our present…

by tbach81 on Sep 9, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rodriguez as THE CLOSER

So you’re saying he’s going to give up baseball and move into acting? Rather bold prediction to make, my friend.

In all seriousness, I don’t think Rodriguez is worth the money he’ll command. His heavy workload has already been cited, but there’s also the fact that he’s bound to come down with a case of Wood/Prior disease pretty soon.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Sep 9, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess I dont see

it in his mechanics as most others do. He doesnt throw across his body. He isnt an "arm’ thrower. The effort causes him to fall off badly to the first baseside, but he has good mechanics. Good spine angle to get a downward plane on the ball. Consistant arm slot. And he doesnt throw a slider, which would put excess stress on his elbow. So basically, in my humble opinion he’s a win win guy for the Mets. His only fault is that he’s a Mas Effort guy. Thats the only thing that worries me. However, KRod is thru the injury nexus and hasnt had but one little blip on his radar.

So all the worry about his arm falling off is a little to presumptive in my opinion. And comparing him to Wood/Prior is a little unfair. Prior had a freak injury and his career hasnt been the same. Wood was much younger when he had his problems.

by tbach81 on Sep 10, 2008 3:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

He is the fourth or fifth best closer in the AL. He is going to command huge money because he is going to set the “saves” record. If you put K-rod on Texas or KC nobody would be talking about how great he is because he would be putting up big save numbers. At best he has been a very good reliever who pitches fora good team that plays close games. At worst he is a guy who is going to drive you nuts for two years until his mechanics cause him to blow out his arm.

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 9, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Joakim Soria

says hello… He’s having one of the best years of any closer all the while doing it in KC

by tbach81 on Sep 9, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not exactly chopped liver last year either

Burgos for Soria. Get it done Omar!

by Simons on Sep 9, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If there's one thing statheads and traditionalists agree on

it’s that saves are a stupid statistic. Here’s hoping Omar agrees too!

by ams258 on Sep 9, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

K-Rod is threatening a record set by Bobby Freaking Pigpen. Nuff said.

'Catsmeat!' he cried. 'I see it all. It was that chump, Catsmeat.'

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Sep 9, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how about a 1 year 25 million dollar contract?

i mean, i dont care about the money, its not mine. so go ahead and break the bank, just dont commit to multiple years.

by kendynamo on Sep 9, 2008 1:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Better closers than K-Rod this year

Based on being better in three of four of the following criteria higher K/G, lower BB/G, lower WHIP, lower SLG% against:
Papelbon
Rivera
Nathan
Wagner
Lidge
Saito
Broxton
Soria (slightly lower K/G)
Wood (slightly higher SLGA)
Marmol (slightly higher BB/G)
Jenks (lower K/G)

Did I miss anyone?

by Reg Dunlop on Sep 9, 2008 1:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was expecting

the list to be like four guys…. Man it really puts into context the volatility of a relievers stats and defintely shows the problems with a small sample size.

by tbach81 on Sep 9, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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