Devin says:
October 11, 2009 at 7:18 pmWhy is it a terrible way? For over 100 years baseball measured defense with errors and range, why the big change all of a sudden? I dont see any of these metrics being used in the other big three sports. I heard Bob Costas say that most of these new stats are the creation of agents who attempt to made medicore players shine in arbitration and what they have succeeded in doing is escalate salaries.
about 1 month ago
Schmidtxc
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Agreed
In a similar vein, I’m not sure why we’ve moved away from phrenology. It had its merits and was used for years, why change? These new methods are just ways for doctors to trick patients into unnecessary and expensive surgeries.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 11, 2009 8:20 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
That Bayonne dude is an absolute idiot
“other than their similarly shitty numbers, Francoeur is infinitely better than Murphy”
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 11, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like going to Bizzaro-world when I read the comments there
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 11, 2009 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like in so many arguments
“logic” and “facts” get in the way of their how they perceive things so they just dismiss it and back up their idiotic opinion* by saying “I know” or “I saw” and so on.
*Is opinion even the proper word especially when there is data proving them wrong?
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 11, 2009 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or they just attack the person who talks about "advanced" stats
like when I used OBP one time. They said I was turning the game into a game with a scientific calculator. I replied saying that graphing calculators are the way to go.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Oct 12, 2009 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course you'd say that.
You have the brainpan of a stagecoach tilter!
by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 12, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
of course. He had a 100 RBI season
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Oct 12, 2009 6:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I don't see any of these metrics being used in the other big three sports."
That’s weird. I could have sworn Champ Bailey had a UZR of 22.8 so far this year, and I keep hearing talk about Dwight Howard’s RAR was projected to be roughly 88 in the 09-10 season.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 11, 2009 10:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see
Home runs or Batting Average or RsBI being used either. They must be terrible statistics too.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 11, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
that as time passes, we’re starting to see more sophisticated analysis of other sports as well, like what’s been done at Football Outsiders or some stuff that I’ve seen linked by James Mirtle at From The Rink but I can’t find because it’s way back into posts about last season. Baseball is just ahead of the curve because a sport where individual plays, and acts by individual players, are largely discrete from one another lends well to statistical analysis. It’s harder in football, and much harder in hockey and basketball and soccer, but that doesn’t mean that nobody is bothering.
by JoshNY on Oct 12, 2009 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And just to add.
FootballOutsiders.com does a fantastic joc with new metrics including DYAR and DVOA as well as the Kubiak projections. I’ve been winning fantasy leagues and pick ’em leagues for years using these new stats. Also, 82games.com really got me into advanced basketball metrics and I believe the writiers combined with BPro to form BasketballProspectus which uses WARP and released their first annual last week (great read.)
by Sokojoe on Oct 12, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, if I think that most baseball fans have issues with advanced metrics,
I can only imagine trying to have similar discussions at a Sunday football tailgate.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 12, 2009 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think football fans is a lot more receptive
How often are football coaches praised for being great strategists and developing new innovations?
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
by All Shook Down on Oct 12, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
But I think there is something to the notion that statistics, as seen through fantasy football, is more prevalent among the average fan and, thus, Running Back X is more valuable because he scored two rushing touchdowns on runs of two and three yards, even though both of those situations were set up by 61 and 58 yard pass plays to WR Y. It’s like how I had friends who would argue that Barry Sanders was pretty good, but he wasn’t as good as Emmitt Smith because Smith scored more TDs on goal line plays (or something along those lines).
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 12, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 13, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Franklin Guitierrez sucks.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 11, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
What’s with all of this hullabaloo about a heliocentric solar system? The sun and other planets revolve around the earth. If it was good enough for Ptolemy it’s good enough for us.
Also, what’s with all of these doppler radars and advanced meteorologic technologies? If I want it to rain I’m going to shake a stick at the sky and slaughter a baby goat, like they did in the good old days.
Sure there are bullshit stats. Holds, saves, and productive outs don’t really tell us anything we didn’t know before their advent. Not all science is good science, which is why good stats (and good science) are subjected to intense scrutiny and peer review before being accepted by the baseball analysis community.
by Eric Simon on Oct 11, 2009 11:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Along these lines
are you familiar with the work of Ben Goldacre? He writes the ‘Bad Science’ column for the Guardian newspaper in the UK, which is pretty hilarious.
by deadspy3 on Oct 13, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For over 100 years, women couldn't vote, why the big change all of a sudden?
Equality, you say? Sounds like Commie talk to me. And you know what else doesn’t make sense? Saves. Way back in the day, they didn’t have this b.s. stat because pitchers threw complete games 3-4 times per week. I heard Bob Costas say that this new stat was only created by agents to get their clients bigger contracts. And what about electricity? Just an invention by the anti-candle lobby to drive candle makers out of business. And don’t even get me started on the metric system. My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that’s the way I likes it.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Oct 12, 2009 12:05 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'll do you one better.
What, slavery’s no good anymore? For hundreds of years, our ancestors used racism to rationalize blatant exploitation of minorities, and now I’m supposed to stop because some people say it’s unfair? Bullshit!
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 12, 2009 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh the old argumentum ad antiquitam
Pffft, progress. Who needs it?
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Meddler on Oct 12, 2009 1:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bayonne met fan is an idiot
What do your eyes tell you?
That’s how I learned the game of baseball. That’s how I learned to be a youth baseball coach. That’s how I learned to be a youth basball manager.
Anyone can be a little league coach. It’s not that hard. It requires an hour and a half on the weekend and 6 hours during the week. Seriously.
All these stupid numbers and UZR’s and things like – they are a lazy man’s way to tell himself that he THINKS he knows the game.
I’m guessing Ben Baumer is lazy
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Oct 12, 2009 6:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments like those are asinine
And it’s such a mystery why this is the only Mets site I ever browse on (outside from the official site, of course).
Beer is good! And stuff!
by R_Adragna on Oct 12, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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