Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Four TCU Football Players Among 17 Arrested In Drug Ring

The Coming Exodus of 2012

When the term "core" is used for the New York Mets, four or five names immediately come to mind:  David Wright, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, Johan Santana, and for better or worse, Francisco Rodriguez.  Being that these five names represent a mere 20% of the roster at any given time, this is a bit of an oversimplification.  There is a large group of the players on the current 25-man roster who should contribute meaningfully, again for better or worse, over the coming years.  Mike Pelfrey, Luis Castillo, Oliver Perez, John Maine, Angel Pagan, Jeff Francoeur, and Daniel Murphy figure to be getting a large percentage of the team's innings and plate appearances through 2011.  However, after the 2011 season ends, many of these players will have the option of choosing Free Agency, potentially forcing a team-wide makeover.  The following players will all be eligible for Free agency following the 2011 season:

Star-divide

 

1.  Carlos Beltran

After signing a 7-year $119 million contract for the 2005 seasons, it seemed like Beltran would be running down flyballs in Flushing forever.  However, with a significant and perhaps degenerative knee injury, Voltron would probably benefit from a move to the AL, where he could occasionally occupy the DH spot, keeping his legs fresh and his name on the lineup card virtually every day.

 

2.  Jose Reyes

The Mets bought out Reyes's arbitration years and first two years of Free Agency by signing him to a Four Year deal with a team option for the fifth year back in 2007.  After an injury plagued 2009 campaign, the $11 million option for 2011 doesn't seem to be quite as much of a guarantee as it did a year ago, but you still have to imagine its all but assured to be picked up. Beyond that, the expectations for what Reyes can expect from his next contract range from record setting should he regain his health in 2010 and 2011, to completely uncertain should he not.

 

3.  Oliver Perez

For many Mets fans, the expiration of Perez's 3-year $36 million contract could be something worth celebrating.  Hopefully over the next two years, he can find a way to make us at least a little sad to see him go.

 

4.  Luis Castillo

A year ago, the expiration of Castillo's contract after 2011 might also have been considered something worth celebrating.  However, after a much stronger campaign in 2009, sentiments have changed a bit. Regardless, with diminishing defense and near inability to hit balls over outfielders heads, it seems likely the Mets will have better options for the keystone by 2012.

 

5.  John Maine

Maine will likely go year-to-year until 2011, which will be his final year of arbitration.  He seemed strong after coming back this year from more arm woes.  Still, he's a pitcher who has had arm problems and missed significant time in back to back seasons, so any optimism should be tempered, and his future even in 2010 and 2011 is still somewhat unclear.  

 

6.  Jeff Francoeur

Like Maine, the Mets really need to take Frenchy year to year, and give themselves the flexibility to be rid of him if something significantly better crops up (I'm lookin' at you Fernando....no, not you Tatis).  There's been some rumblings that the Mets would like to sign Francoeur to a three year deal, but such a move at this time would be beyond hasty, and would likely simply pad the pockets of many an Amazin' Avenue community member's therapist.

 

7.  Francisco Rodriguez

The Mets hold a very pricey $17.5 million option on Frankie for 2012, and worse, its an option that becomes guaranteed should Frankie finish 55 games in 2011, 100 games between 2010 and 2011, and be declared healthy by doctors following the 2011 season.  The only way Francisco doesn't meet these conditions is with a significant injury, and should that happen, it seems inconceivable that the Mets voluntarily spend $17.5 million on a reliever (or even the net $14 million after the $3.5 million buyout).

 

That's at least six players due to be elligible to leave in the 2012 offseason, and two bonafide "core" members in Reyes and Beltran.  The first four players on this list alone will combine for $47.5 million in earnings in 2011.  The six currently guaranteed elligibility to declare free agency in 2012 have combined to average 14.47 WAR per year over the last three seasons.  Needless to say, this will be a huge turnover year for this organization.  While its always possible that the Mets will resign or extend some of these players, the stars won't be cheap, and its almost a certainty that a number of them will walk away. 

Far be it from me to credit a higher-up in the organization with a modicum of foresight, but its easy to suppose this is the timeline the Wilpons are giving the current management structure of the team to regain some of the respect that they've lost over the last three seasons.  If the Mets don't at least make the playoffs by 2011, and somehow Omar and/or Jerry are still around, they will almost certainly be departing along with many of the players that they have acquired/managed. 

So what does everyone think of this situation?  If all or most of these players do leave after 2011, most importantly Beltran and Reyes, how should the team proceed?  Should they take their newfound financial liquidity and immediately tie it up in some shiny new free agent toys with an eye set on competing in the short term?  Or should they take the opportunity to begin a more systematic rebuilding process?  Would such a process even need to take a significant amount of time, or could it be done quickly and effectively without buying nearly every high-quality asset on the market?  These are obviously difficult questions to answer more than two years ahead of time, but its still a situation worth considering given the current roster constitution.

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

Comment 24 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

As long as we still have Reyes.

I can understand letting Beltran signing somewhere else at that point. I PERSONALLY think he’ll be recovered enough from his knee injury to still play a pretty good center field, but even still, he’ll be kinda oldish at that point, and it might make sense for him to at least play left on and off.
If these players play at their current rates, I really would just like Reyes back. Maybe Maine, too. But nothing crazy.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 13, 2009 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

I like french tatis

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 13, 2009 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

If the Mets don't make the playoffs next year, there's no possible way Omar and Jerry will be back for 2011

right? Please?

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 13, 2009 10:48 PM EDT reply actions  

no, no

if we finish at .500, Wilpon will say we improved.
/facepalm
i’m so glad that i’m at least a Giants fan.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 13, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

+1,000,000

I wish the Maras would buy the Mets

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 13, 2009 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have to phase them out gradually

This Milton Bradley situation is a fantastic opportunity to get rid of Perez, although I doubt they will. Ideally the Mets would also make a concerted effort to trade Castillo this offseason, as his horrible defense will soon be unspeakable and his newfound offensive approach might not be successful when pitchers realize they just need to pound the strikezone against him. Any front office that doesn’t understand defense might have interest in Castillo and I think the Mets should eat some of the contract, if that’s what it takes. There are two perfectly cromulent stopgaps on the market, Aki Iwamura and Adam Kennedy, who would be offensive equivalents of Castillo with plus-defense. By 2012, I envision Reese Havens as the Mets secondbaseman, which certainly is not a sure thing.

No contending team should count on Jeff Francoeur and John Maine for anything, but hey this is the Mets. I suspect they will both be gone before 2012 by one way or another.

After his leg injuries, the Mets have to hold onto Reyes at least through 2010. Even if they think he’s not going to be as good a player, you can’t take the risk of dealing him with his value so low. I have always thought Reyes would be the hardest Met to replace, simply because he plays shortstop. I’ve always hoped they’d extend him, but with the way they mishandled his injuries and his obvious insecurities toward how the organization perceives his work ethic, they’ve probably squandered any chance at a long term discount. Next year’s the big thing with Reyes: if he plays well, the organization should consider trading him.

I feel like Beltran’s situation is similar to Reyes’, without even less of a need to retain him. I’d shop him as soon as this offseason, but only trade him if they get an offer that would be considered fair value for a healthy tron.

Francisco Rodriguez’s contract is the worst thing ever, and I’d trade him for salary relief at this point.

by Sam Page on Oct 13, 2009 11:18 PM EDT reply actions  

double-negative

with even less of a need to retain him*

by Sam Page on Oct 13, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

bradley for ollie is not a no-brainer

first off, bradley is signed through 2011 also and he costs only $3M less so its not a financial windfall by any means.

next, bradley is definitely more of a sure-thing than ollie but he’s no rock of gibraltar himself. now i know he can hit and i’ll even set aside the sub-800 OPS of ‘09 but the guy’s ability to stay on the field leaves something to be desired: Over the last 5 seasons he’s averaged 303 ab’s/yr. not exactly what this team needs.

even with all that said, he’s still ahead of ollie but then theres that 800 lb gorilla, his behavior. of the 7 teams he’s played for, he had “issues” w/ 5, that we know about:

CLE: twice screamed at eric wedge after pulling him for jogging out popups
LA: threw a beer bottle at the HOME fans
SD: wrestled w/ bud black during fight w/ ump, resulting in a torn ACL
TEX: confronted broadcasters for badmouthing him, during the game
CHI: countless shots at management and even the home fans who he called “racist” before he was suspended

even the expos trade seems fishy as they were willing to trade away a kid who just batted .330 with 12 hrs and excellent tools a year earlier at AA for a middling starter. and OAK traded him for a AAA reliever after a year w/ a .370 OBP and 11 hrs after the ASB.

bradley talks about what he needs to succeed in 2010:

“I need a stable, healthy, enjoyable environment. There’s too many people everywhere in your face with a microphone asking the same questions repeatedly. Everyone is just bashing you.”

sounds like the exact opposite of the mets. theres NO WAY this guy thrives in an already tense situation where the entire organization is hanging by a thread. yes he can hit but only just enough to tempt someone else into trading for him. his OPS+ is always hovering just above 100, only twice has he really shattered the league over a full season. IMO that trade is a really bad idea, at least when ollie collapses he’s only hurting himself.

by Rob Castellano on Oct 14, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

That and

Ollie has less than zero trade value right. I doubt that the Cubs would make this trade, even if the Mets were willing to.

You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.

by Kevin H on Oct 14, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Or maybe...

sell Ollie to a top-rated research facility that experiments on people – perhaps they’ll pay Ollie more than his current contract offers (so that he accepts), while the possibility looms that he mutates into some superhuman issued by the U.S. government. Then, the Mets will get some substantial government $$$ in return, from which they can rebuild, i mean, restructure their team. It’s a win-win.

Oh, what’s the use! That’ll never happen. Great idea perhaps, in theory, but just too much could go wrong. Besides, it’s not even realistic. Ah well… I’ll keep dreaming.

"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."

- Mr. B.V. Incognito

by sj10689 on Oct 26, 2009 5:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

If Francoeur signs for 3 years

a lot of the AA community will end up going to AA.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Oct 14, 2009 6:50 AM EDT reply actions  

Depending on Reyes' ability to bounce back from his injury, I would say

all of this is good news.

Again, if Reyes is good to go, then obviously we keep him.

by fxcarden on Oct 14, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions  

i agree, it is a mostly good exodus

we lose francoeur, ollie, castillo, k-rod, maine, beltran, and (if he’s not healthy) reyes
the only real bad loss is beltran, and i don’t think he would re-sign for more

by EtSuKe on Oct 14, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not quite an exodus...

Reyes and Beltran are the only players on your list whose typical production will be genuinely difficult to replace. That said, and given all the salary coming off the books, I don’t have a problem with having an offseason (following 2011) in which we sign half a dozen free agents. Sometimes that happens, but if Havens is ready, a set up guy from the farm is ready to close, if Jennry is ready for the rotation, and so on, so much the better. With a $150 million payroll, the Mets should never be in serious rebuilding mode. I look at the Red Sox organization, with a payroll similar to the Mets, to see how it should be done. If I was Wilpon, I wouldn’t settle for anything less that what Theo et al are doing in Boston. It’s a sad commentary on Omar how far ahead of him the Red Sox are.

IOW, it’s not an either/or. The Mets should systematically rebuild in the sense of regularly funneling talent from the minors to the major league club, and signing top free agents as and whenever necessary.

by SeanSchirmer on Oct 15, 2009 10:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I sort of agree

In the sense that if the Mets do want to compete over the next two seasons, they are going to need one of the “lesser” guys on this list to play much better than their recent career track suggests, with the exception of Castillo’s 2009 and Francoeur’s second half, which were solid. If not, they’d better find a way to move some of the dead weight, either contracts like Perez’s or Frankie’s, or talent, as in Fernando Martinez becoming the second best outfielder in the organization and supplanting Francoeur and Pagan. Otherwise, the team isn’t going to be any better than its been the last few years, which while probably better than they were this year, is still mediocre at best. And then you have the problem of finding enough talent to justify dropping $45+ mil in one offseason. The problem might not be one of finance but quantity of talent. You have to find solutions for both middle infield positions, two rotation spots, CF, RF, and (hopefully) “closer”. Sure, if the Mets could spend $45 million in one offseason on fair contracts to fill all those spots, they should be fine, but its a lot of talent to find. You have to hope something is done to create a long term plan before then in some of those spots, and some options may already be in place (e.g. Angel Pagan looks at least as good as Francoeur and could quickly steal the RF gig, Havens may be a better 2B option than Castillo by then, Maine may not even last that long at this rate, etc.).

You’re right, its not a clear cut “either/or” situation, and with proper planning, this discussion isn’t even necessary. But Omar’s not Theo, and unless the farm really steps up by then, the turnaround may not be so immediate, or at least as immediate as it should be for an organization with a $150 million payroll. Then again, that’s also the offseason where Albert Pujols would be due for free agency, which would be a happy coincidence if the Mets also happened to have this level of payroll flexibility. But otherwise, its not a given that the quantity of talent will be available on the market to warrant spending $40-50 mil in free agency.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Oct 17, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

this has nothing to do with the Mayan prophecy, right?

Good.

Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.

by Greenpoint Ian on Oct 16, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Looking at this list

Is making me believe that next year and 2011 are really must win seasons. Our young guys better step up and fast!

Beer is good! And stuff!

by R_Adragna on Oct 16, 2009 3:28 PM EDT reply actions  

“But otherwise, its not a given that the quantity of talent will be available on the market to warrant spending $40-50 mil in free agency.”

Good point. I am willing, though, to take an incentive-laden flyer on an injury risk, for instance, rather than spend too much money on a mediocrity just in order to fill a hole after the 2011 season. Better the devil you DON’T know in cases like this, imo. Also to your point, the Mets should be ready to move in the 2010-11 offseason, and not just wait until 2011, even if that means having to take reduced value in a trade because a potential trade partner is aware that a free agent signing has created a surplus at a given position (although finding a fine OFer who can play LF and RF doesn’t create this problem). It also may mean that you have to hand a Daniel Murphy a starting job or a Nick Evans a platoon slot in order not to overspend just to fill a position. Not perfect, I know, but the best I feel the Mets can do, given the current situation. If they can stay healthy, and hit to career norms, I’d also be very happy to extend Wright and Reyes after the 2010 season (and I’d love to see them retire as Mets, too).

Btw, I have no confidence that FMart will ever play well enough or stay healthy enough to play in the majors. I’d like to see the Mets tell him, if you hit well, field well, and stay in the AAA lineup in 2010, we’ll give you a September callup. Staying healthy is in part a skill, and the part that IS a skill Fernando needs to learn.

Oh, and while Albert in a Mets uniform is appealing, I’m all but certain whoever signs him is not going to get full value for the 10/250 contract he signs. He’ll surely get substantially more than Teixiera, but even The Albert has a decline phase.

by SeanSchirmer on Oct 18, 2009 12:02 AM EDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ctm-logo_small
My dirty little secret: I was once a Yankees fan
Awesome_small
Sabermetrics and Me: Drowning in Objectivity
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #3

Recent FanPosts

Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #7
159714144_040c6c1501_small
Varieties of Baseball Experience
Small
Am I crazy?..
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #6
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #5
X-wing_small
BrooksBaseball Player Cards: An Amazing Resource For Mets Fans Who Are Curious About How Pitchers Pitch In The Major Leagues
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #4
Small
Sandy Alderson, @MetsGM, and getting ready for Spring Training

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Introducing Buddy Alderson, Sandy's dog, and the newest member of Puppy Avenue!

Embiggen here.
Judging by the comments to Matt Callan’s ode to 1986 Mets: A Year To Remember from a few weeks back, the video has a devoted Mets fan following. Despite being too young to remember anything about that season, it has a special place in my fandom as well. It was part of a two video rotation (Ghostbusters being the other) which ran almost daily on my television for a few years in the early 90s. And it remained a once-in-awhile watch through high school and college. 

Unsurprisingly, the physical tape deteriorated over time, and the screen jumps and sound skips made for a less than optimal viewing experience. With sale of the video discontinued, my brother converted it to DVD and gave it to me for Christmas in 2010. See the picture above for the box and DVD. He even created a scene selection function which can be accessed from the main menu. "Get Metsmerized!" plays on loop on the menu screen. It is my favorite Christmas gift ever and is still nice to throw on for a viewing.

"How'd we do it? Mirrors!"
I was flipping through some of my parents' photo albums this afternoon in search of one particular shot of the sign my older sister made for Mets Banner Day back in the late eighties. Though I didn't find that one — I'll post it when I eventually track it down, and I can assure you that it's Keith-themed — but I did stumble upon this wonderful photo of my younger sister's stuffed animal menagerie spread out in front of a glorious rainbow-festooned Mets pennant, also from the late eighties.

She works for the HRC now and was particularly delighted to be reminded of this photo.

(click to embiggen)

Recent FanShots

ST TV Schedule
Mets Expected To watch Scott Kazmir Pitch
Dickey is # 2 defensive pitcher
Yahoo Sports comments on Sandy's Tweets
Using hindsight to redo the Mets’ offseason | Mets360
Cespedes to the Athletics
Kevin Goldstein Top 101
Okay, there is no way this is Sandy Alderson

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ctm-logo_small
My dirty little secret: I was once a Yankees fan
Awesome_small
Sabermetrics and Me: Drowning in Objectivity
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #3

Recent FanPosts

Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #7
159714144_040c6c1501_small
Varieties of Baseball Experience
Small
Am I crazy?..
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #6
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #5
X-wing_small
BrooksBaseball Player Cards: An Amazing Resource For Mets Fans Who Are Curious About How Pitchers Pitch In The Major Leagues
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #4
Small
Sandy Alderson, @MetsGM, and getting ready for Spring Training

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro