Mets Managerial Musings
Yesterday, Ken Davidoff of Newsday, one of the more level-headed and enlightened mainstream writers covering the Mets, suggested that the Mets might begin to address their flaws by canning their manager. Davidoff enumerates Jerry Manuel's failings, to wit:
1. The Mets have lost 41 of their last 59 games, a woeful .305 percentage. That can't be attributed solely to a talent disadvantage. That screams, "White flag." As do Manuel's numerous public comments and team meetings urging his players not to give up, which never seemed to take.
2. The X's and O's. Manuel told Lennon earlier this season that he looks at statistics only in passing when making in-game choices. Unless your name is Joe Torre, you can't be getting away with such a laissez-faire approach toward statistical analysis.
That goes double when your selections prove uninspiring. Why so much love for Fernando Tatis and so little love for Nick Evans, especially as the season progressed and they could've learned more about Evans? Remember when Manuel worked Bobby Parnell into exhaustion at the start of the season?
3. The apparent lack of an "edit" button in the passage from Manuel's brain to his mouth stirred up some trouble. Worst of all were his seemingly unprovoked criticisms of Ryan Church, both while Church was still a Met and after Church left for the Braves.
These criticisms are all fair and certainly don't paint a pretty picture of Manuel's managerial acumen. But what exactly do managers bring to the table in general, in what ways can they help (or hurt) their team, and how to we evaluate those things? While we've seen player evaluation grow exponentially in the past five years, determining a manager's worth to his team is still a dicey proposition, steeped in pseudo-scientific claims of one man's pedigree (of winning or losing) and the content of another's bloodstream (where baseball resides, of course).
In most cases, a manager's performance is simply a proxy to the team's performance, which isn't to say that a team is only as good as its manager, but rather that a manager is only as good as his team. Team win totals routinely fluctuate by ten games or more from one season to another (six National League teams had ten-plus game swings between 2007 and 2008; three more had seven-plus game swings), and a manager's perceived ability to manage is invariably and inextricably linked to those fluctuations, as little as they may actually have to do with anything the manager did or didn't do.
How, then, do we evaluate a manager if not by the performance of his team? First, it's important to identify the areas in which a manager can have a real impact on his team -- positively or negatively. While a manager does a lot of things, there are really three main performance-related facets of managing.
1. Game Strategy
This is the least subjective of the three managerial components, and it's still incredibly difficult to come up with a number that represents one manager's value versus another's. However, we are at least at a point where we generally know what to do in almost any baseball situation in order to maximize the chance of a positive outcome. There's a lot of random variation for any single event -- one game, one at-bat, one pitch -- but over a large enough set of these events, making the mathematically correct call will almost always work out in your favor.
Statistically speaking, there is little point in debating the merit of certain baseball decisions that many managers still consistently get wrong. Thanks to run expectancy and win expectancy matrices we know that bunting with a good hitter is a bad decision in almost every possible scenario. We know that using your best reliever with a three run lead with the bases empty against the bottom of the other team's order makes far less sense than using him in a tied game with the bases loaded in the seventh inning against the heart of the other team's order. We know which batting orders make sense and which ones do not. You can believe something is the right call, and sometimes it might even work out (even that one time in that big spot), but science tells us the probability that one call or another is the right call, whether or not your gut agrees.
Jerry Manuel, like Willie Randoloh before him, is not really a stats guy and therefore, almost by definition, he is not a good tactical maanger. You may argue that there are nuances to in-game managing, or that a manager has to have been "through the wars" or "fought in the trenches" to have a true feel for managing a ballgame, but I can practically guarantee you that over a statistically significant number of games (or seasons), a Commodore 64 will win more often than any manager in baseball. From game-to-game, sure, our C64 might lose out, but given the same players and the same situations, going by The Book instead of by "the book" will undoubtedly lead to greater and more frequent success.
Verdict: FAIL
2. Personnel Management
Some managers are people persons, some aren't. This trait can be subjectively scrutinized, and most evidence supporting (or opposing) one's ability to get the most out of his players comes from his players themselves (or it doesn't come from anyone, in which case he probably isn't much of a people person after all). Clubhouse anecdotes about how a manager steers his ship and its crew are really all we have to go on, though something can be said (Davidoff's Point #2 above) about whether a team's apparent motivation (or lack thereof) is clear enough to judge a manager by. It's hard to tell whether the 2009 Mets have given up or whether they're just collectively a very bad group baseball players (a few talented individual players notwithstanding). Losing 70% of the time over a period of 60 games doesn't necessarily mean a team is "mailing it in"; bad teams play like awful teams with surprising regularity (just as good teams play like great ones, average ones play like good ones, and so on).
If we consider the on-field motivation a wash (I'm not sure it is, but it very well may be), it isn't even clear that the Mets' players like Manuel. Davidoff's point about Manuel's digs at Ryan Church is just one example. Nevertheless, I don't know if there's enough here to either acquit or indict Manuel. There's little evidence to suggest that he's great at dealing with his players, and there's some evidence to suggest that he's subpar, but nothing irrefutable as far as I've seen. The truth is probably somewhere between "nothing" and "bad", neither of which is "good".
Verdict: INCONCLUSIVE
3. Player Development
Sure, organizations have whole departments dedicated to scouting and player development, but young players rarely arrive in the majors as fully-formed big league specimens. There's still plenty of teaching, grooming, and development left to go, and that falls on the manager and his coaching staff (and to a lesser degree on the Proven Veterans™ on the team). Some managers are notoriously good with young players, educating them constantly and setting them up for success. Other managers are perhaps less inclined to spend their time developing their youngsters.
Gauging a manager's ability to work with young ballplayers often comes down to reputation. Bobby Valentine had a reputation for working really well with rookies and less experienced players. Willie Randolph seemed to feel that younger ballplayers had to "earn their stripes", which may or may not have been a reflection of his attitude towards them.
As for Manuel, I haven't heard much, but I've seen him ignore Nick Evans all month and give up on Daniel Murphy the outfielder after a few goofy defensive plays. It's not clear that Manuel is either good or bad at helping players develop, but at this point not being "good" is probably the same as being "not good", especially when you're presumably being paid to be actually good at something.
Verdict: INCONCLUSIVE
Among the three ways in which a manager can have a real influence on the performance of a team (to varying degrees), Jerry Manuel is verifiably good at none of them and is clearly bad at one of them. There are plenty of mediocre managers in baseball, but that doesn't mean the Mets have to likewise strive for mediocrity. Further, given their resources and the immutably high expectations of their fanbase, the Mets absolutely can not settle for merely "not awful". They need a manager who is demonstrably good at at least one of the three managerial models.
Apart from this admittedly rudimentary analysis, there is something to be said for having -- or at least hiring -- a manager that can energize people, fans and players alike. In the short term, change for the sake of change can have a positive impact. Long term, actually being good at things (or at least managing teams comprised of good players) will outlast that initial surge of enthusiasm, but sometimes that burst is necessary to pull the focus away from the politics, infighting, and general malaise that can drag down from within even the best of teams. It's smoke and mirrors, but sometimes people need to be distracted just long enough to forget what was bothering them in the first place. As much as any time in recent memory, Mets fans need that distraction right now.
Given reasonable health, the 2010 Mets should be competitive even without any significant overhaul to their roster. But even while recognizing the injuries that devoured the 2009 team, many fans and media types will demand sweeping changes this offseason to make up for this year's disaster. It's the scalpel versus the hatchet metaphor all over again, but in order to get away with using the scalpel (i.e. making a few meaningful changes) instead of the hatchet (i.e. trading Jose Reyes), Omar Minaya might have to wave a shiny bauble in one hand to divert attention away from the scalpel in his other.
The solution is obvious: the Mets need to fire Jerry Manuel and hire Bobby Valentine. Mets fans love Valentine; in a recent fake poll that nobody actually conducted and I in fact just made up, 94% of Mets fans surveyed would happily punch a baby in the face if it meant Valentine would return to their team. Not only will Valentine divert many eyes away from the minor body work being done to the Mets this offseason, he's probably even a good manager to boot. His in-game decision making is far more congruent with the right way than the old-fashioned way, and his passion for coaching young players can only help the big league transitions of Fernando Martinez, Jon Niese, and Josh Thole, among others.
Let's face it: the only marginally compelling reason not to replace Manuel with Valentine this offseason is money; Manuel is due around $750,000 in 2010, and Valentine would likely command a salary of $4 million or more. That's a solid $5 million for the 2010 replacement, plus however many years beyond that Valentine would require in a deal. Considering the money the Mets willfully flush down the toilet on the Alex Coras and Tim Reddings of the world, diverting some funds to bring in a competent manager would seem a reasonable investment. More than just that, many of us remember the clashes between Valentine and then-GM Steve Phillips that ultimately led to Valentine's ouster, and we all thought Valentine deserved better after his run of success in the late nineties and early aughts.
In a column on manager salaries a couple of years ago, Nate Silver suggested that "[m]anager salaries are, in many ways, just offerings made to the karma gods, by GMs and owners who are overly eager to attribute cause to what essentially amount to random events." To the Mets' ownership group and their front office: spend the extra few million dollars and make this right. Valentine isn't a miracle worker and he isn't going to solve all of the Mets' problems, but he will solve some of them, and he will buy some time for Minaya (or someone else?) to attempt to fix the rest.
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Comments
One other thing I would add
Conditioning. I think the manager does have a good amount of control over the fitness level of their team. Obviously this works in conjunction with the strength and conditioning and medical staff of a team, but starting in spring training the manger does have control over how hard they push their players. This can impact the future potential for injuries.
There is fine line between effectively pushing your players to a maximum fitness level and pushing them too far to the point of burn out. I think Jerry’s record on this is inconclusive. He only had one spring training which was interrupted by the WBC. If he returns and there are injury problems again next year, it will give us a better picture of the effectiveness of his training methods.
by Reg Dunlop on Oct 2, 2009 7:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that used to be more true than it is now
So much of the baseline level of physical conditioning on a given roster, particularly among veterans, is established during the off-season when players are ostensibly outside the control of management.
Additionally, the Mets’ rash of injuries seem more random bad luck coupled with a poor injury profile among some players than being systematically linked to poor conditioning. I generally think of recurring muscle pulls (esp. hamstrings and groins) as the quintessential “poor conditioning/bad stretching habits” injuries. That’s not really what we saw this season. (When I look at the Cubs I see a team that I think is poorly conditioned.) The closest thing we had to a conditioning/stretching injury was probably Gary Sheffield, and obviously he was not the Mets’ off-season responsibility… and, he’s like 82 years old. Reyes’ hamstring tendon tendon injury, followed by a hamstring tear, seem related to his particular body. Rickey Henderson, arguably the finest conditioned athlete ever to play MLB, suffered hamstring problems throughout his entire career. Beltran has a degenerative knee condition. Delgado had a hip displacement that needed surgery—and virtually no one expected him to play 162 games coming into the season. It was always just a matter of handicapping how many games he’d actually play. Pagan spent his customary time on the DL; again, a guy with a poor injury profile. F! blew out his knee. Sometimes injuries happen and it’s no one’s fault.
On the flip side, we saw Slappy show up in arguably the best shape of his career—certainly in vastly superior shape to last year. We also saw Daniel Murphy “mean business” for practically an entire season. He’s no stud athlete, and I just don’t know that his bat will ever play at a position he can field, but he was sufficiently conditioned to pretty much be the iron man on this team in his first full season.
The injuries cloud Snoop’s record on this conditioning issue, but I’m sorta inclined to say that his predilection for “athletes” over “beer league” types is one of the few bona fide feathers in his cap. It got outta hand with Ramon Castro, whose poor conditioning kept him in the doghouse and eventually run out of town. Nevertheless, Snoop’s Mets, despite playing much of the season with an all-scrub lineup, remained among the NL leaders in things that indicate “athleticism” or at least good conditioning - infield hits, stolen bases, triples, and (cough) getting thrown out at home plate. These things may not indicate sound baseball strategy-don’t get me wrong, if the Mets replaced Snoop with Bobby V, Freddy Gonzalez, or Manny Acta today I wouldn’t complain—but it does at least suggest that management places a premium on good conditioning.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
by dcrockett17 on Oct 2, 2009 8:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that we don't have enough info to judge anything but #1 above
Just by not being in the clubhouse or actually at spring training camp, probably none of us ever will be able to accurately evaluate him on anything else but his awful, awful, nonsensical, “from-the-gut,” non-statistical-number-using in-game management.
by pologroundling on Oct 2, 2009 9:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Right Message, Wrong Conclusion....
I won’t offer any great disagreement with what was said in the original post, though I think it far overstates Manuel’s usefullness (or lack thereof). I prefer a more Earl Weaver type view that the manager’s chief role is to find what talents each of his players has, fit those talents into a team, and maximize the individual’s usage in instances that they can excell in and minimize the number of situations that they aren’t well adapted for success in. Manuel is a total and complete failure at this. In addition, his in-game decision making consistantly MINIMIZES the chances the team has for obtaining victory.
There’s also a tendency on Manuel’s hand to override and exhaust a current hot hand, and forget an otherwise useful one after a bad appearance. Not to mention a streak of stubborness. How many games were blown by the insistance on trying to prove that
Sean Green was an effective pitcher in close games. In addition to a 4.70 E.R.A. and 1.45 WHIP which would argue otherwise, Green has also managed to hit nine batters and uncork 8 damaging wild pitches in only 67 innings of work, which would strongly suggest he’s more likely to blow up a close game than be helpful. Green has NEVER been a particularly successful major league pitcher, and his two career saves equal the number of blown saves he has this year.
Manuel needs to go – yesterday!
However, the Mets, in my opinion have never had much of a tradition of having particularly good managers. Hodges and Davey Johnson (until after he’d won it all in ‘86) being the exceptions. Valentine is an improvement over Manuel, but it doesn’t make him a great manager. He wasn’t for the Mets previously, and I question if he would be now. That said, I’d welcome virtually ANYONE over Manuel, as about the only manager in his neighborhood in Mets history that I can remember is Bud Harrelson, and while Buddy was a fine shortstop, as a manager he was in way over his head, just like Jerry.
by Cranky50 on Oct 2, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
$4M for Valentine
It’s funny, I never really thought about his huge pricetag, though I’m not sure it changes things much. Manny Acta is a manager I like who would be much cheaper but Valentine is more fun to root for and I think there’s something to be said for having a guy at the helm that the whole fanbase can get behind.
I think many would be disgusted with Minaya hiring the manager with the worst winning percentage in MLB (since he managed the Nats), even if we here were happy. Every kind of fan can agree on Valentine, however.
by TheBigStapler on Oct 2, 2009 10:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Acta as Valentine's bench coach
would seem divine.
by Eric Simon on Oct 2, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh boy!
Can we bring back Rick Peterson, too? Or am I the only one that liked him?
by TheBigStapler on Oct 2, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt Peterson would come back
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Schmidtxc on Oct 2, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt he'd be asked!
but a boy can dream.
by TheBigStapler on Oct 2, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i liked peterson
zambrano incident notwithstanding.. he was great at getting the most out of what he had
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 2, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is $4M for a manager ever smart?
how many wins above replacement manager would that have to equal?
by letsgocyclones on Oct 2, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you use player WAR, $4M is worth less than 1 win above replacement
Plus organizations value the field manager for various PR responsibilities.
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
by All Shook Down on Oct 2, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can dream, can't I?
Manager- Bobby Valentine
Bench Coach- Manny Acta
Pitching Coach- Dave Duncan/Rick Peterson
Hitting Coach- Howard Johnson
3rd Base Coach- Anyone but Razor Shines or Luis Ayala.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 2, 2009 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Can’t say I’m real high on Hojo as hitting coach either. I just this this team needs a good flushing out, pardon the pun.
Firing Peterson was a huge mistake
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by Jim Schmiedeberg on Oct 2, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no to hojo
the rest would be fantastic
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 2, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't really know that Luis Ayala would be a bad 3B coach
Now, Luis Aguayo, on the other hand…
by JoshNY on Oct 2, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oops, you're right.
Luis Ayala 4 Closer ’10
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 2, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hojo gets a pass.....
Second in the league in batting with the AAA lineup that the Mets have had for the half the year should get him a pass and a chance to see to work with a major league roster (which hopefully we have next year). I didn’t like the change with Wright this year, but in general, the problem hasn’t been Hojo and he might be a useful part in a far stronger management structure than fighting the Three Stooges (Omar, Jerry and Razor (only cuts rallies when it’s dark or when the Sun) Shines.
by Cranky50 on Oct 2, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but they are 8th in OBP
Also, wasn’t it HOJO who decided they should mess around with David’s swing this year. That is a firable offense in of itself IMO.
by Balagast on Oct 2, 2009 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
John Olerud for hitting coach!
Just throwing it out there.
by Eric Simon on Oct 2, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do love Olerud
but it’s probably unrealistic. Remember how after 1999 he wouldn’t re-sign with the Mets because he wanted to move back home to the Pacific Northwest? I’d be surprised if he moved back East to take a coaching gig.
by JoshNY on Oct 2, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that wasn't true
I feel like I remember someone posting something a few months ago that the Mets just assumed he wanted to go back west so they didn’t really pursue him, but it turned out he would have been willing to stay.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 2, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, it was true
My dad’s a housing attorney, and he knew about the Olerud decision a few months before the season ended, since Johnny hired him to get him out of his lease or something. I don’t remember the details, I just remember knowing that Olerud wouldn’t be back well before anyone else and that it was because he wanted to move back west, and remember being very strictly told that I couldn’t tell anyone until after he officially signed with the M’s.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Oct 2, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But then
he played in Boston and New York again, so who knows?
by Eric Simon on Oct 2, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's true
All I know is at the time he knew he was gettin out of NY well before the offseason began in 99’ and I had to keep my trap shut about knowing it at the time.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Oct 2, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This line was one of the funniest things I've read all season:
“in a recent fake poll that nobody actually conducted and I in fact just made up, 94% of Mets fans surveyed would happily punch a baby in the face if it meant Valentine would return to their team”
I agree with just about everything you said in this piece. Valentine may or may not be a very good manager, but just the goodwill that the team would get from hiring him and giving him the proper chance that he didn’t really get in 2002 would be worth the price of admission. It’d be a sign that the front office cares both about winning and about satisfying the fans.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 2, 2009 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't know if he can teach....
but Olerud certainly knew more than a little about hitting, working counts and the like. I still think Hojo deserves another year though, but if he’s canned Olerud would sure seem like a better bet than someone whose had chances in previous organizations and proved that they can’t do the job.
by Cranky50 on Oct 2, 2009 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting Analysis....
…. but it was still a long way to go to make your point, Eric: Bring Back Valentine. Then again, I guess it wouldn’t be a readable post if it just said “Bring Back Valentine”.
Who’s to say Valentine’s second tour of Mets duty would be any better than Randolph’s and Manuel’s. I would agree it would probably be more interesting. If it didn’t go well, there will be Mets’ fans who wanted him to come back ready to run him out of town. Is there a right manager for this team, this group of players that have been around since 2005? Perhaps no one can get this group of players any closer than Randolph did in 2006. Does that make Randolph look better than he has been purported, or does it say that this group of players just don’t have “it”. Maybe the door of opportunity has been missed and it might have to be broken down a bit before it’s reconstructed.
Or perhaps Valentine is the hero, the right manager to take this team to the promised land. Would Valentine come back? Will money be enough to bring him back here? Will there even be an offer?
Good luck.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
by wgarrett on Oct 2, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I lobby for Valentine to be both GM and field manager.
by fxcarden on Oct 2, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
careful what you lobby...
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Oct 3, 2009 3:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A manager's performance can be a pretty good indicator of team performance, but
I think the best measure of a manager’s performance is whether he is able to elicit the finest effort from his players. That’s how I have always seen it. On that count, this entire coaching staff and front office are not doing well.
by Shivling on Oct 2, 2009 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I always say differentiation from Pythag. Records is a good indication.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 2, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
another attribute of a manager is attracting players
his reputation could attract better players to the team.
i think it would be a waste to use $4 mil on a manager. a perfect manager would follow The Book, have a good reputation in the clubhouse, and develop players. and maybe make the fans happy (initially), but if a manager wins the fans will be happy. i don’t know who that is though.
by EtSuKe on Oct 2, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
...also his reputation could work against him.
I vaguely remember Cliff Floyd would NOT be traded to the Mets, but once Bobby left, he agreed to the trade.
by fxcarden on Oct 3, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs



























