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Around SBN: Please, Someone Make Bob Sapp Stop Already

Bullish on 2010?

What is a realistic forecast for the 2010 Mets season? Will the Mets be a contender or not? Is it possible for a Met fan to answer this question without a "hope springs eternal" mindset?  Right now the state of the Mets is directionless and full of uncertainty. In the Godfather Michael Corleone removed Tom Hagan with the explanation of, "You're not a wartime consigliere." That question has to asked of Omar Minaya. Is Minaya a championship General Manager? Based on the last three years Michael Corleone would have removed Minaya long ago. But he's still there. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Are we to expect Omar to make different decisions or more of the same? The player situation is precarious. The pedigrees of Santana, Wright, Beltran, and to a lesser degree, Reyes, cannot be disputed. But Reyes will remain a question mark until he returns to the field. Wright's Jekyll and Hyde season; is this the real Wright or just an aberration? It can be argued that without Wright and Reyes playing at a high level in 2010, nothing else this team will do will result in a different outcome. I haven't even addressed the pitching, corner outfield, first, and second base positions.  Based on the Mets previous track record, and the teams unanswered questions, it's hard to be bullish on the Mets near future. Omar & Co. need to address the future of the club and not take unnecessary risks for '10.

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...or....

we can just go out there and win more games than the other teams.

just kidding.

by fxcarden on Oct 22, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whoah

I’m going to rec this now before even reading it. Meddler + long comment = gold.

by mnbv on Oct 22, 2009 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was scrolling down

and when I realized the comment took up more than my screen, I knew this was a comment by Meddler.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 22, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, you're saying that bullpens wins championship

Well seeing that most of the ‘06 bullpen will be available in FA next year, I’m changing my offseason plan.
  1. Sign Darren Oliver from the Angels giving them our second round pick
  2. Sign Wags from Boston giving them our third round pick
  3. Sign Chad Bradford from retirement
  4. Sign Duaner from oblivion
  5. Re-aquire Aaron who might be non-tendered
  6. Cuddle with Felicano
Result: Chamption

by Sokojoe on Oct 22, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

result: Carlos Beltran choking in the NLCS

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 22, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ya know

Beltran had an OPS of 1.054 in the NLCS. But I know, he took strike 3…

by Jsz on Oct 26, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was being sarcastic

I love Carlos Beltran and no amount of striking out on wicked curveballs will ever change that

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 26, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought so

I knew to expect better of you, cjm, but an irrational/emotional part of me would just be slightly better off if Voltron swung… Just sayin’ in general he hit well that series.
And I agree, love Beltran too.

by Jsz on Oct 26, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh, yea definitely

I wish he went down swinging, but I can’t blame him for not. That’s one of those situations where you just have to give Wainwright all the credit – he made the perfect pitch.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 27, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 22, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

to your point about the 1 WAR bullpen and "shrewd moves"

I present Darren O’Day.

- O’Day posted a 1.4 WAR season in ‘09 (that’s right, .4 more than the entire Mets ’pen).

- He was the 11th most valuable non-closer RP (with 0 GS) in baseball.

- Of those 11, O’Day was one of only 6 who earned less than $1M.

- And of those 6, O’Day is one of only 2 with five years of contract control left (Luke Gregerson is the other).

So yeah, we REALLY blew it letting him go. But this really underlines your point of filling the bullpen with shrewd moves and the Rule 5 draft is one of the shrewdest.

by Rob Castellano on Oct 22, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

One more thing to consider WRT Bullpen

I did a study awhile back and it shows that good bullpens correlate very strongly with Pythagorean over achievement. I don’t believe this is counter intuitive. When you have a good bullpen, you win close games. A lot of times investments in the bullpen can have impact beyond WAR.

Though paying market rate for top-shelf closers is about the dumbest way possible to do it.

http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/

by PWHjort on Oct 23, 2009 3:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm worried about Johan and K-Rod's declines

They’re peripherals have been getting pretty shaky. I’m optimistic overall but still nervous.

by TheBigStapler on Oct 22, 2009 4:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Not to worry

I believe Johan will be fine next year. On the basis that he recovers completely from his surgery, Johan should have a fine 2010. K-Rod? He’s not Mariano (no one is), but he’s still very good. Our closer will not be our problem in ‘10. I’m more concerned with our rotation and the question mark positions (1B, 2B, RF, LF) that I mentioned in my OP. I also want to see whether Reyes will have lost a step or not in spring training. His game is based on his speed. Water down his speed and he isn’t the same dynamic player. Wright needs to cut down on his strikeouts. The power aspect of his game doesn’t concern me too much. If he hits .300 or better and cuts his strikeouts down, he’ll be fine.

by boomer61 on Oct 22, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

I finally read the complete post, and I have to say

great work by Meddler, but ( cue sarcasm music ).

Minaya and Jerry account for about -7 WAR, so 95 wins becomes 88 wins.
Jeff accounts for -2 WAR, so now we’re back at 86 wins, sucking wind.

For the two reasons above, I lobby for this analysis to be recalculated to a 110 win final result, this way, even they can’t fuck it up.

I just don’t want to be sweating bullets on 10/1/2010 as we play the Uri Natinals.

by fxcarden on Oct 22, 2009 7:38 PM EDT reply actions  

This is only tangentically related

but John Lackey is making himself a lot more expensive tonight.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 22, 2009 9:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Yep

and Yankee fans will have to live with “Good A.J” “Bad A.J” for 5 more years

Gangsta

by Jadden Hopkins on Oct 22, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Roll those bones!

boomer61 wrote:

" Omar & Co. need to address the future of the club and not take unnecessary risks for ’10."

Au contraire, my friend. Omar needs to address the future of the club and ALSO take significant (what you might call unnecessary) risks for 2010. Particularly since Davis, Thole, Jenrry, Holt et al won’t be contributing much until 2011 at the earliest, and given how far the Mets are behind the Phillies (and Braves) in terms of talent, we’re going to need some long-shots to pay off in 2010. The good thing about taking flyers on injury risks is you can usually get those guys on one year deals, meaning they won’t block our young guys. Seems to me that while we should be gong after the likes of Holliday or Bay, and Lackey, we should also be doing risky things like re-signing Delgado to a one year incentive laden deal, taking on pitchers with arm woes who have a chance of performing well in 2010, but might also tank. This is the year for that kind of thing, otherwise we’re wasting one more year of our core.

by SeanSchirmer on Oct 22, 2009 10:37 PM EDT reply actions  

I could see Davis contributing pretty decidedly come the middle of '10.

He’s looking pretty good now.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 23, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Risks?

I think you take risks when you have a team on the cusp of contention. I am usually an optimist, but I see a Mets team that has missed its window of opportunity. There are questions about Wright. Is he really a top shelf player, or just a good player? Is Reyes going to be back next year, and if he is, will he be back to normal? Is Beltran beginning his decline physically? Santana is the lone bona fide starter we can count on. The ‘10 Phillies, even if they are just carbon copies of ’09, will be better on paper than the Mets. I don’t say these things to paint a bleak picture, but it should serve as a warning against taking big risks on the FA market. You take those risks when you think you can win.

by boomer61 on Oct 26, 2009 2:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

In a down year, Wright was still an All-Star.

Uh, yeah, he’s a top shelf player.
Beltran played well at the end of this year. I don’t think you really have to worry.
I believe Reyes will be back to normal, but you can’t be sure on that one.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 26, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Being Bullish or Putting Up With Another Yr of BS

I cannot agree with you more. I have been a Mets fan since I was old enough to decide which game I wanted to watch on Sunday. Omar has to be “made an offer he can’t refuse”, that being, produce a championship team or your career sleeps with the fishes. I have to admit he’s made some pretty bold moves, and I don’t want to toot his horn, but getting Beltran,Delgado,KROD and Johan to make a move to Flushing instead of the Bronx, shows he’s got some pull.

You left out catching and middle relief. We need a strong catcher, like Gary Carter strong, or Mike Piazza strong. The Mets haven’t had a good backstop since MP stepped out from behind the plate, and please don’t get me started on the bullpen and middle relief. It’s starting to remind me of the Rays, the only difference, the Rays have made it to the World Series more recently.

by BigJohnInFla on Oct 22, 2009 11:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Mauer is the only catcher that good in the game right now, so don't hold your breath.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 22, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Omir Santos

He just is. Because.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 24, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Mets have had two of the best 10 catchers in baseball history.

It’s pretty hard to get someone as good as Piazza or Carter.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 23, 2009 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

and the Rays are a well run organization that have good players

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Oct 23, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

107.8 wins!

You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.

by Kevin H on Oct 23, 2009 1:57 PM EDT reply actions  

To turn this thing around...

…in a hurry, you are going to have to have a GM that will be aggressive and make
unorthodox moves. Unfortunately we have Minaya, and he has drained the minor leagues.He can be aggressive, but not in the way the Mets need to be. In a way,
I hope they don’t do it, but it could be worth trading Wright if they can get the right
package in return, say in a trade with Tampa Bay, who has a load of younger
players. Reyes and Beltran have decreased in value, and wouldn’t bring in as
much as Wright would.

Fortunately, we have Minaya who has neither the brains or b@lls to pull off such a
move so DW will be in CitiField on Opening Day.

by burtweidemeier on Nov 4, 2009 3:44 PM EST reply actions  

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