Mike Cameron Applesauce - Mets interested in Cameron, Tejada continues to hit, Ya gotta believe.
by Joe Budd on Oct 23, 2009 7:52 AM EDT
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Meet the Mets
Marty Noble thinks the Mets might be interested in a return of Mike Cameron. For the right price, they'd be crazy to not be interested.
Ruben Tejada continues his hot-hitting streak, driving in the game winning run yesterday.
Newsday will apparently start charging $20/month to access their online material.
More things you probably didn't know about John Olerud.
NL East
Philadelphia is proud that they didn't totally self destruct after the NL Pennant.
They apparently don't have much sense of shame or an idea of plagiarism.
Stephen Strasburg struggled in his second AFL start, but still demonstrated some impressive stuff.
Around MLB
Much to Bud Selig's chagrin, the umpiring continues to be a major story surrounding these playoffs. In response partially to these criticisms, CB Bucknor has been pulled from the World Series umpiring crew.
Bobby Valentine doesn't appear to be begging for the Indians job. So what if he hasn't followed the Indians system or even the AL...
The Dodgers' owner Frank McCourt has fired Dodger CEO Jamie McCourt, his estranged wife who is seeking a divorce.
Theo Epstein calls all this team chemistry stuff psychobabble. Awesome.
Lookout Landing has some fun with SBNation's stock photo archive.
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Plagiarism
Mets colors were taken from the Giants and Dodgers.
Their stadium is a copy of Ebbetts Field.
Their mascot is a copy of the Reds baseball head dude.
So why begrudge the Phillies for using a catchphrase used by the closer of one of their World Champ teams?
by EastFallowfield on Oct 23, 2009 8:55 AM EDT reply actions
We don't have to LIKE it.
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?
Because that team still exists and uses that slogan.
No one’s ever really identified the Reds’ mascot as a definitive representation of the Reds or anything. Almost every stadium is a copy of a stadium that came before it. The Giants and Dodgers abandoned NY to move west, and the Mets were created to replace them. One color from each team to celebrate the NY NL history is hardly plagiarism.
However, the Mets “Ya gotta believe” slogan not only is the defining cry of one of our few World Series runs, but it is literally one of the most identifiable Mets slogans out there, perhaps only bested by the “Amazin’ Mets” tag. Taking that away from your rivals is just stupid. You look stupid and unoriginal when the Phils use it. Sorta sad that a team with twice as much history as the Mets needs to use one of their slogans.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 23, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The Phillies have used "Ya Gotta Believe" in the past.
It was ever really an issue. Why make it an issue now. Is everyone really that bored ?.
when?
I remember the 1980 Phillies team that had McGraw on it and they didn’t use it then. its not that big of a deal but it is lame.
for the record
I bitched about it last year too
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
The Braves
When they were making their “playoff run” at the end of the season, one of their catch-phrases-for-the-moment was “Believe”. During that time-period, I caught a few Braves games, and their announcers dropped the phrase “You gotta believe” once or twice, and/or a derivative thereof (“You need to believe”, “You have to believe”…)
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 23, 2009 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
that's fine
other teams can believe. It’s the “ya gotta” part that really symbolizes the ’73 Mets.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I remember it last year, but no other times.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 23, 2009 11:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
well
if they didn’t use it in 1980, then using it now means it is not really about the slogan, its just another lame attempt to insult the Mets.
Guess if people are insulted..
…as they seem to be, it’s not a lame attempt.
Honestly, people Jamie Moyers age and younger have no memory of Tug on the Mets. For them he was a Phillie then a local media guy.
by EastFallowfield on Oct 23, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
May I suggest
That those same people then read some baseball history books, because stories involving the Tugger as a Met were really prevalent then.
Beer is good! And stuff!
seriously
that’s like saying Yankees fans younger than Barbara Bush shouldn’t be allowed to quote Yogi Berra or Casey Stengel
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Tug
Said it once in a while back when he was a Phillie, even if the team didn’t. If we can trust your memory.
And the team isn’t using it now, it was just a banner.
by EastFallowfield on Oct 23, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, please.
This is pretty pathetic, to be honest. I don’t care that much, but just admit that you stole it, eh?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Mets traded McGraw, didn't they?
The saying is associated with Tug. He named his charity after it. He said it every once in a while. People said it to him.
Like it or not, people in Philadelphia look at Tug as a Phillie.
You all look at him as a Met, if you’re old enough.
Hey, if you’re convinced it belongs to the Mets and not Tug, then be happy, your saying made a banner in the crowd the night the NL Championship was decided!
by EastFallowfield on Oct 23, 2009 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, no.
Ya Gotta Believe is a Mets slogan. Tug said it, but it is synonymous with the 1973 Mets.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
He's right in that Tug coined the phrase initially.
The Mets and their fans then made it “their own”.
Does any of this really matter ?.
Couldn’t we be helping end world hunger or something ?.
maybe
if Phillies fans weren’t slogan stealing douches
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
This
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 23, 2009 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah we could.
If individuals like our friend EastFallowfield weren’t taking up pointless and pretentious causes like making us agree to what he believes.
Beer is good! And stuff!
I lobby for ignoring such crap.
Rather than fight for the rights to a phrase coined by a guy who is now dead (RIP, Tug), I say we all concentrate on the death of the Yankees and the severe maiming of the Phillies themselves.
I furthermore lobby for the Mets to sign Chapman, who apparently can’t control his 100 mph FB, and use him out of the bullpen specifically just to face Victorino. We’ll see if he is the shit then.
I'm not debating Tug's team status.
I’m talking about the fact that the slogan was used FOR A SPECIFIC METS TEAM. Sure, he came up with it. But it’s not like a tangible object that you take in a briefcase from place to place. Tug never used it as a Philly. If the Mets had a group of young guys playing, and nicknamed themselves the “Whiz Kids”, Philly fans over a certain age would be outraged.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
And this is the whole point
It’s a slogan that has meaning because of a specific circumstance. What the hell does “you gotta believe” even mean when it’s applied to the defending champions?
Maybe they’re just that afraid of the Yankees.
the saying is Tug's but the subject is the 1973 Mets and their miracle comeback
I don’t doubt that some fools in Philly said it to him in 1980 but it wasn’t his catchphrase for that season. His most memorable moment from 1980 was when he told New York to stick it at the victory celebration. The whole point of the saying is to rally a down and out team. Not to pump up the ego of a team that has already won the championship.
you are a petty bastard
aren’t you?
Ask 99.9% of baseball people what they associate “ya gotta believe” with, I guarantee you it’s not the Phillies
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Of course this person is a petty bastard;
They’re a troll.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 24, 2009 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Classy!
Ask people in Philadelphia what they associate the phrase with and it’s Tug.
The 1973 Mets aren’t exactly a hot topic much anywhere outside of Met fandom, believe it or not.
Face it, Tug and that phrase is something we have to share, like Lenny Dykstra, Del Unser, Juan Samuel, Endy Chavez, Marlon Anderson.
Do Phils fans whine every time Gary Cohen says “Outta Here!” on a HR ala Harry Kalas?
by EastFallowfield on Oct 24, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
No, you really are a troll.
You are a Philly fan who comments here rarely and seemingly only for the purpose of agitating the regulars. You’re a troll.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 24, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
by definition a troll
and I know i’m crushed we have to share the legendary Marlon Anderson with you guys… I guess we share so many players i’m basically a phillies fan and didn’t even know it, thanks for the enlightenment eastfallow!
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions
on the positive side
he’s reversed all the good will towards Phillies fans I had after the classy post from Bye, Dawk the other day.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
EFF
was an ass when i posted over at Beerleaguer last year. And if you look at my post’s (ImAMetsFan) they were never provocative or anything.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 24, 2009 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Cohen says
“it’s outta here.” Not just “outta here.” If you guys were saying “You’ve Got To Believe” none of us would have a problem.
And you seriously are a petty troll – your team is in the World Series, why don’t you go enjoy that? Or, like last year, is that just not enough? You’re still more concerned about hating the Mets, is that it?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
73 Mets are one of the most famous teams ever.
because of their comeback and Tug’s phrase. I bet you can’t even name more than five players on the 1980 Phillies without looking it up. I will give you Schmidt, Rose and Carlton and McGraw. That is the extent of your knowledge I am sure.
I could, but how would you know?
But how many people here know the real history of the phrase and how Tug coined it?
(Hint: It’s not on Wikipedia).
by EastFallowfield on Oct 24, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
well if its not on wikipedia its clearly not real
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Whoever wrote the Tug McGraw entry there
Does say it was used in 1980.
Which fan base came up with hanging up the “K” signs? Was that the Mets too?
by EastFallowfield on Oct 24, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions
yup
and they invented the internet, i hear its made up of a series of tubes
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm pretty sure Mets fans...
…came up with the 7th inning stretch AND the Star Spangled Banner.
by EastFallowfield on Oct 24, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
we also discovered fire
and the wheel.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 25, 2009 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The wheel play?
And firing the manager in the middle of the night on the West Coast?
by EastFallowfield on Oct 25, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
That's unfair
Pre 1800, Philly was an intelligent and important city. Not so much since then.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I know the story.
But thanks for the offer.
by EastFallowfield on Oct 24, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
wait
McGraw told New York to stick it at the 1980 victory celebration? So let me get this straight, the Phillies have won 2 World Series, and while celebrating both of them they’ve taken the time to say something negative about New York?
Yea, they don’t have an inferiority complex…
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
i doubt we ever talked about Philadelphia ever prior to 2007.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Exactly
yet still, in 1980, after a season in which the Mets won all of 67 games, Tug McGraw and the Phillies had to bring up New York specifically.
Like CJ said, there’s definitely some sort of inferiority complex going on…
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
of course they do and that is what this is all about
The exact quote was that “All throughout baseball history, Philadelphia has had to take a back seat to New York City. Well, New York can take this championship…and stick it! ‘CAUSE WE’RE NUMBER ONE!”
So you see EEF between the Mets and the Yankees(and Brooklyn Dodgers and New York Giants), NYC has dominated baseball for over 100 years and in almost that same span of time you guys have won exactly 2 titles and you had to borrow our closer to even win that many. Oh and let us not even talk about what a class act Steve Carlton was during his Phillies career. And of course let us forget about the other sports where you folks haven’t even sniffed a title since the 1983 76ers!! If you need to work out your envy of NYC, I suggest you see a therapist, not bother other people on a Mets blog.
by the way
I just looked up EFF’s history and I see he just joined Pinstripe Alley!! So we know what he is all about.
Homage != Plagiarism
Supposing that colors can be plagiarized (a grey area in copyright law, no pun intended), orange and blue are the colors of the City of New York… which were in turn taken from the Netherlands. The Giants and Dodgers absconded with them when they left town; the Mets reclaimed them.
“Ya gotta believe” is also the opposite of apt for the Phillies. Belief is hoping for the improbable, or at least for luck in matters out of one’s control, not expecting a consistently successful team to continue doing well. And though it pains me like a fissure in my liberty bell, Phillies fans don’t have much need for blind faith this season; they’re doing all right on the field.
phliadelphoe ite domum!
by Doc Manhattan on Oct 23, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Precisely, they're just showing their stupidity
It’s our slogan, but that’s not even the point. “Ya gotta believe” is about persisting in the face of what appear to be overwhelming odds. It’s entirely meaningless if you’re the goddamn defending champtions.
This is how a Philly "fan" would respond
WHO CARES YOU DUMB MUTTS FAN?!? WE’RE TEH CHAMPTIONS!!!111 FUCK NEW YAWK!!! YEHH WE’RE ALWAYS TEH BEST EVARRR!!!111
Beer is good! And stuff!
Would Philly fans like it . . .
if we started to call our team the Fightin’ Mets, served cheese steaks at the park, and beat each other to death in the parking lot? Wait, scratch that last one.
by 1T on Oct 23, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
also
Mr. Met is technically predated by a sleeve patch version of Mr. Red, which only existed for the 1955 season, but Mr. Met was the first human mascot in MLB, and was around for almost 35 years before Mr. Red made a re-appearance.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
World Series gets by Bucknor
Glad to see that the game’s most incompetent ump won’t be there to screw up the Series, but it’s also disconcerting that he was actually slated to work the Series. How does the guy even have a job?
By the way, Daily News – he’s not a rookie.
Valentine's powers would be wasted in the AL
Of course, after watching last night’s “let’s see which manager can F this up harder” ALCS game, maybe bobby is just what that league needs.
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Oct 23, 2009 10:10 AM EDT reply actions
What are people's thought regarding Cameron
He is still an amazing defensive CF and certainly has some pop in his bat. I just don’t know he’d want to come back here and not play CF, or that Beltran would move to say RF and let Cameron play center.
At the right price, I'd bring him in.
Depending on whether we keep or rid of Franceour, of course.
But knowing our management, I wouldn’t be surprised if they bumble this up and give him a very asinine deal.
Beer is good! And stuff!
Exactly; nothing extravagant.
Pretty low would have to be right as far as I’m concerned.
Beer is good! And stuff!
a cheap cammy would be worth taking a chance on
although he may run in terror every time he sees Beltran out there after their collision a few years back. Most brutal thing i’ve probably ever seen in baseball.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly wonder
how they would react if they were in the field together and a ball was hit in between the two of them. That collision still makes my head hurt, I can only imagine how they feel.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I was reading Marty Noble's mailbag, and god some of the letters were horrible
Of all the negative things to be said about the Mets and their future, there are, in fact, some positives. The Jeff Franceour trade was huge, securing defense, youth, energy, grit and a productive bat. Citi Field is pitcher friendly, and could help revitalize careers or be attractive to pitchers coming from smaller parks. Instead of worrying about the limitations of Citi Field in terms of which hitters would want to play there, why not go after players that have played well in similar parks — Jarrod Washburn, Endy Chavez, Russell Branyan, Mike Cameron?
There are good role players and bench players on the market. Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither will a new version of the 2006 Mets. Oliver Perez is our Adam Eaton, send him to Triple-A Buffalo and forget he exists. Pick up J.J. Putz’s option, save that money by getting third and fourth starters who can last five or six innings and get ready to play small ball in 2010. Your thoughts.
My god: you want Washburn, to sigh Putz for $6 million or wahtever his option is, and the Francoeur trade was good because he brings grit?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Oxymoron
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Oct 24, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
marty noble does great game recaps
but his player analysis and arm chari GMing skills are beyond putrid. his suggestions universally suck. which is too bad because i think hes got plenty of writing talent. but its hard to take him seriously about anything when hes says stuff like about franceour.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
I'm outraged.
He put grit 3rd. 3rd!!! Grit is always number one.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
he put it 4th
Energy was third.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Oct 24, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Do Matt Cerrone's logical reasoning skills exceed mine?
“…noble doesn’t say if the Mets like the idea of cameron in Citi Field next season, or if they like the idea of acquiring him… he only says they like the idea… so, i am not totally sure what that is supposed to mean…”
What’s the ambiguity here? Is he suggesting that the Mets may mean they like the idea of Cameron in Citi as an opposing player…?
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