Dodgers = Mets ?
I found this in Jon Heyman's article, and I thought it might apply to the Mets. What does everyone think ?.
" Here are some things the Dodgers need to do:
1. Time to toughen up. It won't be easy to match the Phillies in this area. "We've got a bunch of nice guys in here,'' one Dodger said. "Those guys over there, they are tough. (Shane) Victorino is a tough SOB. And (Chase) Utley, he drops a knee whenever the runner comes in at second. When Larry Bowa managed those guys he warned (Utley) that guys would get mad if he drops a knee on (baserunners), and Utley told him, "I don't give a ----.'' About the Phillies, Dodgers GM Ned Colletti said, "They're a tough club, not just wins and losses but how they approach the game. They play it hard, and they play it that way all the time. They play with a relentlessness, and they absolutely refuse to be beat.'' Using the Phillies as a measuring stick, the young Dodgers still have a little work to do. One young Dodgers star made it a point before every game to seek out Peter Gammons with the intention of high-fiving him. The Phillies players don't suck up to anyone. "
29 days ago
fxcarden
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Vic Torino is a dickish little pissant
and if having dickish little pissants on my team is what it takes to win, I’d rather be a loser.
by SuperT on Oct 23, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
actually, it's Dick Torino
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Oct 23, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a tool because I was helping you get his name right?
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 23, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't take it too personally
we’re angered by phillies fans on principle.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And becasue Dick Torino
is a gigantic gaping asshole.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 23, 2009 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey guys
This made me feel just a little bit better, and also helps explain our point about philly fans as a whole.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’d take him on the Mets in a heartbeat.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 24, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably.
I mean, Beltran’s better, but Victorino’s quite good. But that doesn’t mean he’s a human sized doucheburger.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*doesn't mean he's NOT a human sized doucheburger
is what i meant.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But why though? What makes him a doucheburger? Because he plays hard?
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 24, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well a fan generously tried to give him a free beer
and he got all angry about it just cause it was “during gameplay” and “thrown at his face” Theres just no pleasing some people.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Rec'd
That’s a good one.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 24, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did you see what he did to Reyes this year in the basepaths?
That was just ridiculous.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or the time he argued balls and strikes FROM CENTER FIELD?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
I’m unfamiliar with the Reyes thing, but c’mon now… The center field ball/strike ejection? That’s legendary.
I guess I can understand why a rival wouldn’t like him… He plays hard, does whatever he can to win (will run over catchers, lean into inside pitches when he’s down in the count, he recently ran out of the baseline and tried to run into a fielder to cause a fielder’s interference when he was stuck in a rundown)…
But you know what? Even though we have some of the elite players in the game on our roster (Howard, Utley, and now we can throw Cliff Lee into that mix too), Victorino is easily my favorite player, just because he plays with the mentality of a middle linebacker.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 24, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't remeber when he got caught in a rundown
and went out of the base path to throw his elbow at Reyes who then got called for interference and dicktorino was awarded second? People always talk about Reyes “showing up the other team” when he does his hand shakes in the moment cause he’s happy, victorino does that intentionally, when he hits a home run against the Mets he stood at home plate, turned toward the Mets dugout and clapped in their face. That inherently wouldn’t bother me except that people get on Reyes for his handshakes, but no one says anything about victorino.
The only player on the Phillies I somewhat like is Utley. He is a genuine superstar but doesn’t get the credit he deserves because he plays next to one guy who does nothing well except hits home runs, and another who made a comment that got blown out of proportion before 07. I really think Utley is the only elite position player on the team. Home run hitters always get glorified, so since his breakout MVP season, he’s kept that perception by hitting a ton in a small ball park, his walk rate has decline significantly since 2007. And Rollins, while a great fielder, has really benefited from CPB in terms of home runs. He’s another guy who can’t draw a walk at all. I hope that doesn’t sound too much like petty BS from a Mets fan, I just really think that.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 24, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really, just to be fair, the Reyes play was a major fail on the umpire.
Victorino gets away with murder, but the umps let him.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yea
But Victorino is still a piece of garbage!
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 24, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other than being a pest and getting away with it,
how is he garbage ?.
Before you jump all over me remember I’m a Mets fan, too.
I’m just trying to be fair to the guy. I think most of his douchebagginess is because he gets away with it. I think if he got called out more often for shit like that, he would change his style.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don't think it's garbage to exploit the rules?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on which rules, and what you can get away with
To me, a play like Reggie Jackson’s hip check in the WS was a smart play.
The Reyes / Victorino play was very similar and he got away with it. That is ump fail, and heads up on Victorino. Don’t get me wrong, I am not lauding Victorino, but I if he was a Met, that play would have been awesome to everyone here, including you and me.
The play the other day where he ran 10 feet out of the baseline and was not called out by the ump was bullshit, but that is on the ump, and not on the player.
Bottom line, he will continue to be “garbage” as long as the officials let him get away with it.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree the umps are to blame
but he makes a conscious effort to go after a player outside of the baseline he’s being a jackass whether he gets away with it or not. Its the same reason guys like Ty Cobb or Pete Rose are known to be jackasses (and yes I feel wrong putting them in the same thought process as dicktorino). Just because you’re good doesnt mean you’re not a dirty player, and the opposition has every right to dislike a player for it.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt he plays dirty.
But again, that’s because they let him. If they shut him down by calling him on every dirty play, then we would see his grit fall off, and we’d stop hating more than anything else.
See my post elsewhere about us signing Chapman just to throw 100 mph FBs at him.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hernandez, Darling and Cohen all love him.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 24, 2009 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They love everybody.
It’s what they do.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Darling, in particular, has a massive hard-on for the grissiony players.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 24, 2009 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree, if he was forced to stop being a jackass
we wouldnt notice he was one anymore. But just because you get away with something doesnt make it right either. If we kept drilling him with a 100 mph fastballer, i think it would just make people talk about him being gritty even more for taking those pitches for the team. That plan could backfire.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah.
He’d cry like a woman the first time he got drilled by a 100 mph FB.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but they'd be gritty womanly tears
they’d probably say he was crying because he was so happy he could help the team
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think cheating is awesome.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its only cheating if you get caught
otherwise its just a good idea.. right? I can’t see that mentality ever being a problem.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I say to myself before during and after everyone of my tests.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 24, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree
(Though I somewhat like Lee too and don’t hate Howard as much as the other guys) Utley is so much better than any of their other players.
by johnmac7512 on Oct 24, 2009 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
too bad he is at best the fifth or sixth best player on the team
News flash, he is expendable. Howard, Utley, Cliff Lee and Lidge arent. And if you don’t remember the Reyes incident, you must not watch that many games
by Endys Game on Oct 24, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol @ Lidge being not expendable.
Maybe in 08. This year? HA
But agree on the rest, and I’d add Rollins and Werth. Werth is also surprisingly underrated. Werth and Utley I sorta like, though even Werth just sorta has that Cory Hart-esque douchetastic look about him.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lidge
has been lights out in the playoffs. Bastard that he is. regular season just a tease I guess.
by Endys Game on Oct 25, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not for anybody good I wouldnt
in citifield he hits 2 home runs and plays average defense.
by Endys Game on Oct 24, 2009 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NEVER
I loathe him. It’s a deep seated hatred, I want no part of him. Plus, Beltran is much better than him.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 24, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can play left and right, too.
You’re telling me you wouldn’t take him over Jeff Francoeur, Fernando Tatis, Jeremy Reed, Nick Evans, Gary Sheffield, Angel Pagan or any of the other AA guys that found time in the outfield this year?
I’m pretty sure you’d do an instant 180 on him if he somehow joined the Mets.
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 24, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd still hate him.
He is my least favorite player in baseball but he’s obviously better than all those other guys. If we get like Matt Holliday or something, I could honestly say I’d rather throw Pagan in right over Torino because we’d have two star outfielders and I could keep my hatred.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 24, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate to say this, but I think you're right.
Just don’t expect many people here to come clean and agree.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't do a 180 on him.
I’d still want him on the team over those guys. But I’d still hate the guy.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he'd go in jeff francoeur or gary sheffield territory
where i’d hope they did well for the sake of the team but i’d hate every second of it because i loathe them.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, you nailed it.
It would be akin to signing John Rocker. Actually, I’d probably stop rooting for the Mets if they had ever signed Rocker. Gah.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh John Rocker
i reserve a special level of hatred among baseball players for him, and its a pantheon few reach.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See ?
but HE was a real douche,
a racist, homophobic, redneck douche.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah he was a douche off the field too
my dislike of him transcends baseball
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yeah
but I think John Rocker goes a bit beyond “douche”
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mega-douche ?
sounds like the title for ……… oh never mind.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vicky Torino
is in the same category as Rocker for me. I can’t say I’d stop rooting for the Mets, but I wouldn’t be happy if he was on the team. I’ll admit that had he started as a Met I’d probably feel differently, but if they acquired him now a small part of my fandom would die.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 26, 2009 12:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How dare you troll our trolling!
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
by Kevin H on Oct 23, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome
but realize this is a Mets community, and 1 that isn’t too fond of Mr. Victorino. Don’t get annoyed if you see “Dick Torino” thrown around.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 23, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phillies... measuring stick?
Love the sound of that!
by Bye, Dawk :( on Oct 23, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why are you guys even bothering to troll on this blog
when your team is playing in the WS later this week? We are irrelevant right now dude. Don’t waste your time trying to get us to develop the same hard on for your players you have.
by Endys Game on Oct 24, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Dodgers suck
I mean, even the Mets swept them out of the playoffs this half-decade.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Oct 23, 2009 2:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Jon Heyman is a jagov
and I can’t believe people still eat this stuff up. If Broxton doesn’t blow the save in Game 3, the series is tied 2-2 and the Dodgers have a great shot at going to the World Series. Stuff happens, it’s not all tied to character and fortitude.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 23, 2009 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think what they should pay more attention to is the dodgers record in the second half
If i’m not mistaken, they were below or right around a 0.500 team after all star break but their abnormally high record before the break got them to the playoffs. I think we can chalk up the dodgers loss to regression to their mean productivity and not some imaginary toughness factor.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2009 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
43-39 after ASB if i count correctly
or an 0.524 win percentage. This is a pretty middle of the road win percentage to have for the second half of the season. Hardly what you expect from a playoff team in the second half.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have taken 43-39 from the Mets all year long.
by fxcarden on Oct 23, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
me too, but it still wouldnt have gotten us to the playoffs
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true, but the Omar would have been able to say.....
you know what I’m sayin’….I dont’ regret our record…I mean….I regret that we didn’t win the division…..you know what I’m sayin’……I am glad we didn’t trade for Cliff Lee…..but…..I regret that we didn’t trade for Cliff Lee…..
by fxcarden on Oct 23, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i know what you're saying
i lobby omar for fewer sentence fragments next year.
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 23, 2009 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I think what the Mets need is to have better players. They could throw Chuck Liddell and Mike Tyson out there and it’d do wonders for their toughness, but it wouldn’t make them better at baseball.
by JoshNY on Oct 23, 2009 8:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Better players = tougher players ?.
No ?
Can Mike Tyson pitch in wee-leaf ?.
by fxcarden on Oct 23, 2009 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if better=tougher
than we don’t really need to concern ourselves with our stars.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 23, 2009 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This article sucks.
I’m sorry, fxcarden, in general you’re a good poster, but recognizing this article as anything other than “Jon Heyman being moronic as per usual” is a characteristic generally reserved for the Scotty’s of the world.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 23, 2009 8:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the "good poster" compliment.
For the record, I don’t really think any article by Heyman is ever “good”. This particular section of this article was somewhat provoking to me, so I wanted to share with my buds here, just to see where everyone stood.
I think it is sagfe to say most of us are on the same page.
by fxcarden on Oct 24, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, fair enough.
My opinion, just to restate, is that any sportswriter that thinks a team loses because of a lack of mental toughness should go stick their hand in a compacter.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh Oh
The Phillies have grit. Bah, generally speaking, I can understand and sympathize the want of players that are “hardcore”, who make no bones about not being friends with players on the other team, not personally liking- as much as professional players can not like each other, personally- players on the other team, getting dirty, and those kinds of things, but that aspect of the game has gotten blown way out of proportion. The Philles win because they have good players who put up good years, not because Victorino and Utley are assholes. Albert Pujols is, arguably, the best player in the game right now. Apparently, he’s a genuinely nice guy. Assholishness =/= greatness.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 23, 2009 10:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Phillies don't f'ing give highfives to anyone
they’re tough
by EtSuKe on Oct 23, 2009 10:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"One young Dodgers star made it a point before every game
to seek out Peter Gammons with the intention of high-fiving him. The Phillies players don’t suck up to anyone.
Yeah, but they don’t have to. They already have Jayson Stark.
by johnmac7512 on Oct 23, 2009 10:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
schlurp schlurp
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 23, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also Peter Gammons is one of the better mainstream media people in baseball
And like 1000 times better then Jon Heyman
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Oct 24, 2009 6:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who's 1000 times better than Jayson Stark
at least Heyman sucks up to Boras, not an actual baseball team.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 24, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that make
Peter Gammons a million times better than Jayson Stark?
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
by Kevin H on Oct 24, 2009 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe that young Dodgers star really liked Gammons' album?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 24, 2009 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have a question, when everyone read the title of this (dodgers = mets)
was the first thing that came to mind “the Wilpons dreams have come true.” ?
by KeithsMoustache on Oct 24, 2009 9:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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