No Choice At All: Holliday>Lackey
Yesterday, Jon Heyman "tweeted" that the Mets wouldn't be pushing hard for John Lackey. I was happy to hear this news, but puzzled when I read on metsblog that 69% of their readers would prefer Lackey to Matt Holliday, assuming a choice between the two. For those of you wanting Lackey, hopefully I can try and account for this gap in fan perception and persuade you otherwise. Remember, Mets fans (who participate in those metsblog polls), you have been wrong before:
The case for John Lackey: In 2009, the Mets had one of the worst rotations in baseball. While injuries decimated the team, the rotation was clearly flawed by design, doomed from the start. John Maine was hardly a sure thing, having not thrown off a mound until the spring. And whether you realized it at the time or not, Oliver Perez, the reigning walk leader, was probably the most overrated starting pitcher in baseball and doomed to be average at best. Sure, he pitched well in 2007, but his ERA was just as much a product of the Mets great outfield defense as it was his comeback (FIP of 4.35). Next season, his walk rate regressed closer to his career mark, his strikeout rate dipped, and his fastball velocity lost a tick. In fact, his 2008 season more closely resembled his (3-13 6.55 ERA) 2006 season than his breakout 2007. Don't believe me?
via statcorner
In fact, the only thing Perez did better in 2008 compared to '06 was throw called strikes, the least important indicator. So what was the difference between 3-13 6.55 and 10-7 4.22? He gave up significantly fewer homeruns in 2008, despite an identical FB%, largely a product of luck. He also had a .288 BABIP, compared to .336 in 2008, which implicates (among other things) a better defense behind him. The better W/L record is entirely a product of playing on the Mets versus the Pirates.
Did I just spend all that time rehashing why people were wrong about Perez to rub it in? No, I understand why Perez was attractive at the time: relatively young, durable, and with good stuff. I bought an Oliver Perez jersey in 2007. The Perez situation, however, demonstrates some key lessons applicable to why I don't want the Mets to spend on Lackey, instead of Holliday. That is NOT to say John Lackey, a very good pitcher, is comparable to Oliver Perez, a very poor pitcher.
Instead, Oliver Perez neatly illustrates why nearly all free agent pitchers get overrated. Most fans have a hard time differentiating a pitcher's performance from his team's fielding. The Earned Run Average statistic has much to do with this; ERA measures how a team's defense performs when a given pitcher is on the mound. Defense includes fielding and pitching. Statistics like tRA and FIP that try and differentiate between these two performances aren't perfect, but are empirically pretty accurate. The conclusion here is not that John Lackey is overrated by his defense, but that he would have posted a worse ERA for the horrible-fielding 2009 Mets than he did on the above-average 2009 Angels.
As an illustration, take the most common argument for John Lackey: "The Mets need a good #2 starting pitcher to complement Johan Santana." Totally reasonable, but has no one asked why this sentiment didn't exist last year, when the Mets had the exact same personnel? Could it be because most fans hoped that Mike Pelfrey with his 3.72 ERA, lower than John Lackey's 2008 and 2007 ERAs, could that solid #2?
In 2009, Pelfrey pitched almost exactly the same as he did in 2008. He even flashed a better slider. His strikeout rate improved. His walk rate went up a little, but he threw a fewer percentage of balls. The main difference? He allowed more homeruns and more hits, basically the anti-2008 Oliver Perez. The Mets infield defense was horrible, and I've beat this dead horse thoroughly by now. Without Reyes, and with an under-performing David Wright and increasingly bad Luis Castillo, Pelfrey's ERA went up because the defense on days he pitched was worse, not him. If Pelfrey had a 3.72 ERA this season, would you vote differently on Holliday/Lackey?
Secondly, Oliver Perez demonstrates that pitchers too often get paid for what they did, not what they're likely to do. Many people, including myself and Matt Cerrone believe Omar Minaya only thinks about what was wrong with last year's team, not what could go wrong next year, when constructing a roster. It's a valid criticism, but is little good, unless we identify high-risk players and situations. Pitchers, in general, are less likely to repeat feats of durability or performances from years before, both because of the injury-risks associated with pitching and the aforementioned factors outside of their control. John Lackey, who gets described with terms like "bulldog" and "workhorse," has come off two straight seasons where he has missed time with conditions such as "elbow strain" and "arm strain." He'll be 32 next year, and while he still pitches very well, he has experienced a yearly drop in swinging strikes since 2005, a potential sign of declining stuff.
Instead of potentially risking another franchise crippling contract, why not pursue Erik Bedard, Rich Harden, and Ben Sheets on a year-to-year basis? All three of those pitchers have poor track records of health, but undeniable stuff. Harden-Bedard combined could reasonably be estimated to provide the same results as Lackey. More importantly, however, with a better fielding, the Mets have some pitchers in-house who might also provide similar results to Lackey.
The case for Matt Holliday: Matt Holliday would go a long way towards helping the Mets defense. He gets a bad rap because of his below-average hands and poor arm, the most notable traits to the average onlooker. These traits are also the least important, however, as a fielder's range most greatly influences the number of hits, and in turn runs, his pitcher allows. According to Ultimate Zone Rating, throughout his career, Holliday's arm has been 15.8 runs below average, his errors have cost virtually no runs compared to the average leftfielder, but his range has been 48 runs above average. The Mets already have Jeff Francoeur's cannon manning rightfield. They could most use a rangy leftfielder to complement Beltran in Citi Field's huge outfield. For another source, check out John Dewan's +/- rank of the best left fielders in 2009:
Offensively, Holliday is elite. Much ado was made about Holliday's home/road splits and how the related to Coors before this season, but Holliday still hit very well, albeit with expectedly fewer homeruns. If anyone still cites his home/road splits, read this:
Players perform better at home than on the road, all else being equal. That's what causes a home-field advantage! Across MLB in 2008, the average home OPS was .770 while the average road OPS was .730. Holliday's away parks don't include Coors field, while all other National Leaguer players' away parks do. In other words, his away parks lean towards pitching parks, pulling down his numbers. Using only road numbers ignores more than half of the data we have on Holliday. How is that a good thing? It's a much better idea to use ALL the data available and do a proper park adjustment. There very well might be a "Coors Hangover Effect". Since breaking balls don't break as much and flyballs are rewarded big time in Coors, Rockies hitters might be hurt on the road because they can no longer count on those advantages. I haven't seen any conclusive studies for or against this theory, but the Rockies do tend to have more extreme home/road winning percentage splits than other teams. Why are we using career numbers? Why not the most recent seasons? Holliday's road OPS numbers from 2006 through 2008 are .819, .860, and .892. That's an average of .857 and a 5/4/3 weighted average of .863. (Thanks to reader dougdirt who provided #5 in the comments.)
He hit fewer homeruns and linedrives, but still walked a ton and hit for high-average. He's a great hitter, even if he is not the insane hitter he was before. Another argument I've heard against Holliday is that he only started hitting when he got to St. Louis, and that his numbers are the product of one hot streak. This point makes little sense to me, because:
- All hitters numbers are reflections of hot and cold streaks throughout the season
- St. Louis is a pitcher's park that deflates homers significantly
- He had started to hit in Oakland before the trade
- Splitting the numbers up like that only makes the sample size smaller and lessens the potential of making a meaningful conclusion
That leaves "AL is harder than NL" which is both overblown and irrelevant if he'll be signing with the Mets.
Conclusion: John Lackey is a very good pitcher and may very well be worth whatever contract he receives. Matt Holliday, however, is younger, carries significantly less injury risk, and helps the entire pitching staff with his fielding. Pitching performances like John Lackey's last year are replicated by plenty of surprising and unexpected players every season (think Joel Piniero). A long-term investment in Matt Holliday solves a gaping hole the Mets have endured in their lineup and fielding alignment for years now.
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You also made an account with SN "oliperez" an some baseball forums
That will haunt you forever
The most flawed part of this analysis?
You compared your similar thinking to that of Matt C. Haven’t you been paying attention? Cerrone will change is mind as much as the weather changes from day to day. Reading his posts for years has me convinced he’s the most bipolar of Met fans out there….
by MetsFan4Decades on Oct 26, 2009 8:22 AM EDT reply actions
Who in the fuck
Voted Ollie should get 15 or more million per year… Wtf is that about?
Matt Holliday FTW
by RIPShea on Oct 26, 2009 8:45 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Oliver Perez was NEVER worth 10-12 million dollars. Ever.
Just goes to show why Metsblog is not a good place to go- because “the average fan” goes there, and “the average fan” doesn’t know what’s going on. Seriously, when has Oliver Perez ever exhibited the ability to be worth that much money? His one break-out season, maybe, but that happened years ago. Jake Peavy makes $13 million, if I remember correctly, and the two are on whole different levels. But, whatever, that’s not the topic.
I like Holliday, but I think that, even if the Mets do go out and sign him, nothing is going to come of next season if we don’t address our pitching issues. John Lackey, specifically, as mentioned above, isn’t a God-send that we need, but we need a proven pitcher who we can count on for similar numbers. I like Bedard and Sheets, but that’s the problem- we can’t count on them to have similar numbers. Lackey just happens to be the best idea out there right now.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 26, 2009 9:00 AM EDT reply actions
ive said this for two years now
Make a trade for Harang.. He shouldn’t cost much in terms of prospects. The Reds have some good young pitching and I’m sure they’d like to have the salary off their books.
We sign Holliday- that’s a no-brainer. His defense and offense are underrated imo.
That should allow us sign one of Bedard/Harden/Sheets to a incentive deal if they so chose to go that route.
Santana/Harang/Pelfrey will be guarantees in rotation. And you’ll have one of Bedard-Sheets-Harden manning a spot with Maine/Perez/Niese/maybe Nieve competing for last spot.
Harang should benefit with the change and the defense can only be better in 2010 right?
by RIPShea on Oct 26, 2009 9:21 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
what's the limit on holliday?
if he’s demanding a six- or seven-year contract, i’d rather the mets look somewhere else for a LF. i think a 5-year, $75 million-ish contract should be the mets’ best offer for holliday.
The past three years
he’s been worth $32.2, $28, and $25.4. He rightfully deserves more than 15 million per season esp. considering Carlos Lee’s awful $100 over 6 year deal signed in ‘06 which I’m sure will be brought up by Boras. I’m hoping that the depressed economy plus the seemingly undervaluation of Holliday by the market helps to keep his price down but this is exactly the type of player you go after on the free agent market and I think my limit is higher than yours.
I fail to undertand the prior contract point
Yes Lee got 6/100, but that shouldn’t mean Holliday should get that much. If anything it should be an indicator that teams shouldn’t invest that much money into a player because its a striking example of a player making far more than they bring back in value.
I realize that agents will bring these past contracts up (ala Silva and Ollie), but you have to believe the GM’s aren’t that stupid, well at least other team’s GM’s that is.
Free agency is a very subjective market as no one really knows what fair value is for men playing a child’s game. Therefore, it can be argued that using historical data (past contracts) are a good means of creating a starting point for negotiations. I’m not a huge fan of historical cost esp. in these market conditions so while I’m not agreeing with the prior contract usage I can definitely see it being a small part of Bora’s negotiations if teams try to sign Holliday for “only” 15 million per season.
Regardless of Lee’s contract, Holliday very much deserves 6/100 and I would be happy if the Mets could get him at that price.
i think teams are less willing to accept the prior contract logic
as you pointed out, the market conditions have changed dramatically in the past 18 months or so. second, i think there are too many very bad contracts in MLB right now for GMs to put much stock into the prior contracts logic. i think most GMs would point to contracts given to Zito, Vernon Wells, Soriano, and Carlos Silva to suggest that contracts given in the 2006 – 2008 range are not good precedents.
mets left feild
I think nyjer morgan would be a better choice/the nats need pitching so possibly a package of niese and misch could persuade them/ morgan has great speed and good defense/ reyes and morgan as a 1/2 combination would drive opposing pitchers crazy. It would also free up a lot of money to spend on starting pitching (halliday)
So after we trade Niese for Morgan, which is a terrible idea in itself especially when the best solution is a FA— who we giving up in the Halladay deal?
And if you didn’t realize Halladay will end up costing more than Holliday.
by RIPShea on Oct 26, 2009 10:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The Blue Jays are going to give us Halladay, don't you realize?
Or, maybe they’ll want Lance Broadway in return.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 26, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't get the Harang love
I personally don’t think there is much to suggest he is going to bounce back to that 05-07 form.
His swinging strike rate was about the same as last season, which is notably worse than it was in 05-07,and his LD% is up.
Yes he has a pretty high HR/FB and BABIP, but it would seem that is expected not unlucky.
Sam,
Do you think that a Bedard, Harden pairing will be cheaper or equal to the price that Lackey will cost? Or that Lackey will cost anywhere near what Holliday will cost?
Holliday gets 20M-22M a year
Lackey 13M-18M a year
Harden 10-13M a year
Bedard ?
Sheets 5M a year.
I guess what I’m saying is this article doesn’t take into account the money difference between the two players. In a world where there is unlimited money Holliday is clearly the best answer or even a pairing of Bedard and Harden or Sheets and Harden, but I think those options would cost significantly more then John Lackey. Also, I’m hoping Lackey won’t cost more than 15M a year which maybe is only a pipe dream.
I think Harden+Bedard might cost a little more than Lackey
but even then, it would only be on one year deals, or deals with options. Holliday would also probably cost more than Lackey on his own, this was just assuming a choice between the two, while it obviously isn’t that simple, depending on who else the Mets sign/trade for.
I would love to get Sheets on an incentive laden deal
If we trade for Harang and sign Sheets, and he stays healthy, that would give us a hell of a rotation.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
i could see 5m as a base with significant incentives
but no way he signs for 5m even with low incentives, much less 5m
According to reports
Pedro didn’t want to sign a $5 +/- million dollar deal with incentives. At this stage in their careers, Sheets, I think, is significantly worth more than Pedro. Given the contract that he did eventually sign with the Phillies, I think it’ll take more than $5 million dollars to sign even the rehabbing/ed Sheets.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 27, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
Ike Davis and Chris Carter are both hitting in the AFL and VWL, respectively, which makes the idea of an internal spring competition for 1B a bit more palatable. Having three lefties competing for the larger half of the platoon with Nick Evans is looking pretty tempting. Even Lucas Duda raked against righties. I suspect we’ll get a nice hard look at Davis in the first few weeks of the spring, and unless he really dominates he’ll get demoted and Murphy and Carter will have the last few weeks to steal the job, with Duda likely seeing some time in LF early on and moving over to 1B or getting demoted depending on performance at the same time Davis gets sent down.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Oct 26, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions
I think he means Evanston
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
I don't see Carter
being able to play first well enough to stay with the Mets. I believe he was a throw in to make it look like we were getting a little something for Wagner. If Omar’s smart he’ll send Carter to an AL club that needs a AAA DH who won’t embarrass himself in a call-up.
Also, even from his better side Evans MLE’s are around .700. Between that and his actual major league performance he needs a full season at AAA before we even think of putting him on the ML roster
by SeanSchirmer on Oct 28, 2009 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions
are those graphs real?
Those graphs were presented to Mets fans last winter? I don’t remember reading anywhere about anyone thinking Ollie was the right man for the Mets. Don’t get me wrong, you make valid points in your post and personally I think we need both to compete, but Lackey is more important than Holliday. Come playoff time is it going to matter that we added Holliday when we have to send anyone other than Santana to pitch against the other teams top two or three. Pitching and defense win championships and thats what we should focus on first.
And Holliday
greatly improves the defense
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Not according to Cerrone
…bay is the better fielder, with the better outfield arm… but, holliday is the more consistent, well-rounded hitter…
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Oct 26, 2009 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I posted that in another thread too
and as I said there, I vomited a bit as I read it and remembered why I told myself I wouldn’t read his blog anymore.
but but but
I mean/…you don’t see Bay dropping flyballs…in a clutch situation
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Oct 26, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
that's just wrong
Yankee runs are worth more than any other team’s.
Just listen to Michael Kay do a game.

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