Break up the core?

by boomer61 on Oct 26, 2009 3:05 AM EDT Comment 52 comments

Reyes, Wright and Beltran. Mike Francessa referred to these three as "the core." After last seasons debacle Francessa suggested that we break up the core through trade. Looking back on it, perhaps Francessa was a prophet. It's arguable as to whether the trade value on the Core will be any higher than it was last season. Beltran was injured for most of the season. The same for Reyes. While Beltran returned (a good thing), Reyes is still a question mark for '10. Wright had a weird and disappointing year. He hit over .300 but had a huge power lapse and poor plate discipline as evidenced by his career high in strikeouts. I personally believe that Wright's performance in '09 was not indicative of his consistent production for the past few years. His value is still high. Its Reyes and Beltran whose stock has taken a nose dive.

For arguments sake, let's say that Reyes has a bounce back year and Beltran remains relatively healthy in '10. If the Mets are in contention - fine. But if the Mets are playing sub .500 baseball come the trade deadline, do we attempt to move one or both of them? I would rather keep Wright. He is still young and his best years should be ahead of him. Beltran and Reyes could bring back both major league talent and prospects. If we're not going anywhere in '10, we should consider all options.

0 recs | Comment 52 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Strikeouts do not equal plate discipline

He also had a .390 OBP which is still excellent.

Assuming all three are playing like they did from 06-08, and 2010 is truly lost by the trade deadline, the only one that they should even consider trading is Beltran. There is no reason at all to trade Reyes, he’s either healthy and productive, so trading the second best shortstop in baseball who is only 27 is stupid, or he’s playing below his norm meaning you won’t get fair value for him. Wright had a down year, is young and had been a superstar the years before hand. I’m thinking/hoping he was just in a prolonged power drought that he never had time to correct during the season. No player should be untouchable, I just don’t see us getting fair value, and the worst thing that can be done is a trade for the sake of a trade.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 26, 2009 3:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Strikeouts do not equal plate discipline

Exhibit A: Bobby Abreu

"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."

- Mr. B.V. Incognito

by sj10689 on Oct 26, 2009 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do not trade the core

that is just stupid. Why would you trade the best third baseman in the NL, the best SS in the NL, and maybe the best center fielder in the NL?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Oct 26, 2009 7:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Because

they lack that winning attitude.

I don’t even have the heart to be sarcastic right now. It is basketball season and Lebron has already signed with the knicks for 2010 IMO.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 26, 2009 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

The winning attitude is missing

I suppose that is the impetus for this thread. Reyes has a world of talent. So does Wright. I see a leader and a winning attitude in Wright. I do not see that in Reyes. Reyes may be one of those players who will bloom someplace else. I would never trade him to an NL east team, but I would trade him out of the division, or better yet, to the AL. I would trade Beltran anywhere. Beltran is in his 30’s and has developed a series of leg and quad problems. This isn’t a good thing. The older Beltran gets the more susceptible he will be to leg problems. He has two more years on his contract (‘10 and ’11). I can see the Red Sox begging for his services with Jason Bay probably leaving and David Ortiz’ drop off. I would take a John Lester for Beltran.

If I were to rank trading the core it would be in this order:

Beltran
Reyes
Wright

Actually I doubt I would trade Wright. In fact, I know I wouldn’t. Breaking up the Core doesn’t mean trading all three players; it means just trading one or two. If Reyes was traded it would send a shock wave through the organization. Teams don’t win championships based on potential. We should know that better than anyone.

by boomer61 on Oct 26, 2009 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was joking

We can’t POSSIBLY trade reyes or Beltran right now. Their value is extremely low and it just wouldn’t be worth it.

How can one still blame the recent era on these three players who have been in the top 3 at their position’s over the last 4 years (not counting 2009).

Didn’t you see how awful we were after these guys went down? Doesn’t that embiggen how insanely awesome they are?

Finally, the Sox will not trade lester. Unless it is a Lester for Mauer/Pujols/Hanley (and i don’t even know if they’d do it for Hanley) he isn’t going anywhere.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 26, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"If Reyes was traded it would send a shock wave through the organization."

Yep. That shock wave would be the sounds of millions of people slapping their heads while they say “What the fuck, Omar?!”

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 26, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

there would be an intense spike in assault cases with a judge noting how many Met fans there are all of a sudden after such a crap year.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 26, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus the sound of my sobbing

by SuperT on Oct 26, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He said he wants to keep Wright.

I’m torn on this.

I think the core needs a lot of support from the rest of the roster. I think that is where Omar has gone wrong. Instead of bringing in the Jason Werths of the world, Omar is content with bringing in the Francoeurs of the world. Instead of bringing in rotation reinforcements, we go after Livan, Ollie, and almost had Freddy freakin’ Garcia on our team.

Gah.

by fxcarden on Oct 26, 2009 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

EXACTLY

Every team’s core needs support from their teammates. The problem isn’t the core, the problem is that the Mets’ supporting players are crappy.

by JoshNY on Oct 26, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

reyes isnt the best SS in the NL

he is a top tier SS, but i wouldnt put him #1. That said, we still need to hold onto all of these guys.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 26, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

i'd put him #2.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 26, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

out of curiousity who's your #1?

Id go with Tulowitzski from Colorado, reyes definitely makes top 2-3 for me.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 26, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

uh, clearly Hanley Ramirez is the best.

I’d say that prior to this year, Reyes was definitely #2, but now Tulo has caught up with him, and they’re both about the same. They’re clearly the best three SS’s in the NL.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 26, 2009 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where's Jimmy Rollins?!?!?!

He’s on the Phillies! He’s a winner! He’s so full of grit that he scored 100 runs despite getting on base less than 30% of the time!

by boom_roasted on Oct 26, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

excuse me while i vomit into a toaster in the hopes it will electrocute me

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 26, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1000

Gangsta

by Jadden Hopkins on Oct 26, 2009 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hanley has improved a lot on defense this year, the three are all certainly top choices

but I want to see one more season of this improved defense before I place him at the top. I think at shortstop defense is as important as offense. I’d love to know how Hanley keeps his BABIP so high every year without having a particularly noteworthy LD%. It cant be a sample size fluke at this point because every season it seems to be .330 or better. Either he’s hitting the ball absurdly hard or he’s very good at directing his swings. Either way an impressive player for sure.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 26, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's been

adequate defensively his entire career with the exception of 2007 where it was terrible. He’s an average to slightly below average fielding shortstop and by far the best hitting shortstop, it’s really not even close, Hanley is far and away the best SS in the game. I want to see one more great year from Tulo before saying he’s as good as Reyes.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 26, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ramirez is the best hitter, no argument there

but i think having an above average defensive shortstop has value in improving the defense of the other infielders he plays around, and until this year hanley has been mediocre defensively at best. I know WAR arguements won’t side with me on this one, so I can’t argue with you too much. Just my personal opinion here that Hanley needs to show consistent defense like this year. If he does I’ll give him best SS hands down without any complaint though.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 27, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just saying

he was just as good defensively last year as he was this year which is about average.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 27, 2009 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah he wasn't bad last year either

I just personally like the idea of having an above average defensive shortstop. Since there are options presented (Reyes and Tulo) who can still hit far above what you normally see at the position, while having above average defensive skills as well, i’d prefer them marginally over hanley, but the difference is pretty negligable given just how well hanley hits.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 27, 2009 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, I was half asleep when writing that

Reyes is the #2 SS in the NL

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Oct 26, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

you’re right on the first one, wrong on the last two. Reyes is the second best in the Majors behind Hanley and Beltran is the best in baseball.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 26, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just don't trade the core. Just don't.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 26, 2009 11:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The Mets should trade K-Rod.

He sucks, is absurdly overpaid, and has that ridiculous option. “The core” is awesome at baseball. All three are underpaid.

I think that the Mets could get a decent package for Rodriguez from some team that is as dumb as the Mets and looks at saves.

by boom_roasted on Oct 26, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

except

that in order to realize that trading him makes sense, the Mets would have to not be as dumb as the Mets, which is clearly not true

by JoshNY on Oct 26, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. This is very unfortunate.

Oh, how I long for the day when the Mets get competent management.

by boom_roasted on Oct 26, 2009 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

look at the phillies

everyone fawns over the phillies and how they’ve done things over the last few years and deservedly so, but everyone also forgets that up until ’07 it was philadelphia that was the perennial bridesmaid, missing out on the postseason by 2-3 games right at the very end of the season for years.

yet, did in the midst of all that did they trade utley, rollins, howard, etc.? obviously they didn’t, they just kept mixing and matching the supporting cast untl they found one that worked and here we are.

its like a car; if its making a rattling noise do you immediately throw out the engine or the transmission or do you first check the little stuff like the spark plugs, the air filter, the starter, etc.?

its completely counterintuitive, get rid of the most productive players in order to make the team more productive. so basically no, that would be asinine.

by robcast23 on Oct 26, 2009 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but the person doing the mixing and matching for the Phillies at least has a clue.

Exhibit One: Cliff Lee.

The person that does the mixing and matching for us can’t even string two coherent sentences together.

Exhibit One – A :

Well, I regret….you know what I’m sayin’….I mean…..I don’t regret….youknow what I’m sayin’.

by fxcarden on Oct 26, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reyes is younger than Wright

"The one thing you don't want to do is hit a home run. That's a rally-killer." -Jeff Francoeur

by RangersandMets on Oct 26, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Let's not

and say we did. Delgado was a part of the core, right? Ok, well it’s now officially broken up. Good job Omar, now get back to work!

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 26, 2009 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs

This.

Rec’d.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 26, 2009 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Excellent

"I reject your reality and substitute my own"
-Adam Savage

by blueandorange4life on Oct 26, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the perfect solution

well played

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 26, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So glad Delgado is gone

by gbaked on Oct 28, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Someone get cjmulrain a job in the Mets' PR dept

Good work sir.

by boom_roasted on Oct 26, 2009 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

comment reply FAIL

by boom_roasted on Oct 26, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Beltran will be 33

Does this concern anybody, especially with Beltran’s leg problems lately?

Listen, if the Mets are in contention come July, don’t trade Beltran. But if we’re out of the race, then why not consider a trade? We’ll only have Beltran for one more year. Arguably his trade value will be higher this year around the trade deadline than he will next year. And I doubt Beltran will resign with the Mets.

by boomer61 on Oct 27, 2009 7:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

It's a fair point.

But if you watched Beltran play at the tail end of this year, he looked fine. He didn’t look like he was ailing at all. I’m pretty much convinced he’s back to his old self next year. But hey, if he’s still struggling defensively but his trade value’s up, it never hurts to at least see what sort of offers we’d get. That said, I’d have to be pretty bowled over.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 27, 2009 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, but part of his late season energy had to be that he was so rested.

I wonder how he would have been had he played the whole year.

by fxcarden on Oct 27, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But he was still sorta injured.

So it’s a good sign that he was able to play that much at all.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 27, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

im not worried about him being unproductive

but we need to consider the possibility he’ll need to move to a corner OF spot in the not too distant future to preserve his health over a full season. I think he’s more valuable as a Met than as a trade chip, but thats not to to say if they offered enough I wouldnt consider it.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 27, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he can stay in CF

but get a day off next every off day, all year long.

Ditto for Wright and Reyes, as long as they’re not all out the same game.

by fxcarden on Oct 27, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah extra days off would be a good idea as well

but i really dont want to see pagan in center again any more than necessary either. He was terrifying there, and is much better suited to the corner OF position.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 27, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

statistically, he wasn't that bad.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 27, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

his range/arm were decent

but the mental errors were a lot more glaring in center field. If he maintained focus a bit better i wouldnt mind him in CF as much… it was just the throws to the wrong bases, missing the cutoff, and bad angles on balls that made me nervous. I’m not saying he couldnt be a very serviceable center fielder, I just would like to see better fundamentals out of him sometimes.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 27, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking Omir's lightning powers could both catch and cover CF

by fxcarden on Oct 27, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No.

You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.

by Kevin H on Oct 27, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i would never say

that you should NEVER trade someone…

but to get any of those three guys from the mets, we better be bringing back a huge haul. I mean, it would have to be ridiculous. If Boston was willing to empty their farm for Reyes? I would listen…

But I cant see that happening, so no… do not trade these guys. They are awesome at baseball.

by gbaked on Oct 28, 2009 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We have to wait...

and see how things pan out before they gets nuts and do this. With the
economy the way it is, I think there will be allot more non-tenders this year.
Bobby Cox said one of the possibilties for their offseason was to non-tender
Francouer. There will be more players available that the Mets may be able to get,
so don’t say no to 2010 until next June, if then.

by burtweidemeier on Nov 4, 2009 3:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs