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The robcast Mets Offseason Plan

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Seems like just about everybody's got one so why not throw in my two cents.  For the record I'm going to try to be as realistic as possible so Francoeur stays and I won't sign Holliday, Lackey & Pineiro then trade for Halladay, Crawford and Adrian Gonzalez.

Star-divide

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So the way I see it, we've got 3 primary questions to answer, first base, left field and starting pitcher.  The rest is secondary.

 

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#1 First Base: Adrian Gonzalez

For once, the media-driven, oversimplified solution is right.  We simply CANNOT get a .266/.313/.427 line from our first baseman (MLB league average was .277/.362/.483).  And I'm one who thinks Murphy will improve but it's just too much of a risk to take w/ our "stars" all getting older/closer to free agency.  Nick Johnson is too injury prone, LaRoche has a decent bat but his consistently bad D kills his value, ditto Dunn and Prince isn't available.  Forget the place-holding righty platoon partners.  Lyle Overbay is OK but that trade seems unlikely, if not made up.  So trade for Adrian Gonzalez.  He's the perfect blend of power and defense that we need, he's the rare cheap superstar player, he is available and we'd have him through 2011.  I know we're all suddenly in love w/ Ike but this way we can be conservative and give him 2010 in Buffalo and transition him in during 2011; plus, we can always stick him in the OF if he forces his way up. 

So the package to get Gonzo you ask?  (Using the Lee, VMart & Peavy deals as models) I'd go w/ Wilmer, Tejada, Parnell & the hard-throwing lefty Robert Carson.  You've got the very young, very high upside (and IMO slightly overrated) prospect, the very impressive upper level prospect and a very strong pitching prospect and then the rookie who can hit 100mph (who I also feel is overvalued).  That feels like enough but the package they discussed from the Sox this July included some big names so if they forced me I'd include Kyle Allen or even Jeurys Familia in place of Carson.

Plan B - If you can't make the deal, leave Murphy at first, spelling him w/ Chris Carter (who is currently raking in the VWL) or a cheap lefty killer like Ryan Garko and make up the offense elsewhere (aka Holliday).  If you lose out on Holliday, bring in a more legit. platoon partner for Murphy (i.e. Jorge Cantu, Mark DeRosaDan Uggla) and a legit LF option.

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#2 Left Field: Angel Pagan

This move is completely contingent on acquiring Gonzalez.  Once you do that, you're not desperate for the offense and you can put the best defensive option in left, which I feel is important in Citi (Holliday is good but his D while underrated is consistently declining according to UZR and I personally just don't see him aging well in terms of mobility).  People also say that "Holliday only costs money" but thats a bit oversimplified as the amount of money he will cost (a rumored 8yr/$150M+ deal) will drastically limit our roster flexibility deep into the next decade, meaning no more bigtime FA's until either Beltran, Reyes or Wright is gone. 

I also feel that Angel Pagan flashed some untapped offensive potential this season that he couldn't before for lack of PT (see: 2.8 WAR in only 376 PA's); w/ 500+ ab's I see him profiling similar to Franklin Gutierrez (though admittedly less valuable in LF than CF).  Back Pagan up w/ a very capable 4th OF in case of injury or extended slumps.

Plan B - Assuming we don't get Gonzalez, sign Matt Holliday; I hate to give in to Boras and give the big contract but we'd have no choice.  If we lose a bidding war for him, try to bring back the always underrated Mike Cameron short-term, as a nice mix of power and defense; both scenarios move Pagan into the 4th OF role.  The recently dropped Jermaine Dye might seem like an OK source of power if he'll sign for short-term but his loathsome OF defense (4 straight -20 UZR seasons!) negates nearly all of his offensive value.  IMO Jason Bay in Citi LF instead of Fenway LF becomes similar except he wants 5+ yrs.

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#3 Starting Pitcher: Rich Harden

I don't like any of the top tier options.  Lackey wants 5 year and $100M+ and w/ declining performance, elbow issues and his age (31), I don't even consider it.  Pineiro would be decent for a couple years but I see someone desperate (probably MIL) going too far to sign him.  And Chapman is WAY too risky.  Like I've mentioned here before, Harden is obviously a big injury risk but basically he gives you a 50/50 shot at a ~4 WAR season and coming off a (pretty unlucky) down year, I'd say on a 1yr deal (roughly the same $7M salary he made in '09, as he did have a down year) I'd take that risk. 

Because of that risk (or the risk of any of the 2nd tier SP options), IMO you've got to back up whomever you bring in w/ a Redding-esque contingency who you can stash in AAA or on the DL.  Erik Bedard would serve this role perfectly, bolstering the rotation w/ a high caliber SP when he gets back on the mound around mid-season.  I like Justin Duchscherer but I doubt he signs w/o a guaranteed spot in the rotation.  A much less high profile name is Rodrigo Lopez who showed he may have something left this year as a #4-5 for the Phils (3.62 ERA in 5 starts) and would likely accept a role in Buff. until a spot opens up.

Plan B - To me, Sheets and Harden are interchangeable; I'd only try Harden first because Sheets is almost a guarantee to get hurt at some point, that's why you bring in that contingency guy. I like Harang, but CIN probably won't take any of his $12.5M salary for 2010 (and possibly 2011).  If that's true, I'd give a package of Evans and Michael Antonini to get him, no more.  $12.5M for that big of a risk is just too much to give anything significant for.   Randy Wolf wouldn't be horrible but long as he wants 3 years I pass.  Inquire about a Nolasco trade but w/ a new stadium on the way that sounds unlikelyHere's a crazier trade idea:  See if the Braves are interested in a Lowe-Castillo swap.  After a poor '09 and $45M left on his deal, Lowe is definitely available and ATL lacks an everyday 2B as well as a top-of-the-order OBP guy.  Then go out and sign Placido Polanco or Orlando Hudson.  But a part of me feels like we might just be better off letting Castillo's contract expire instead of adding on another year and an additional $33M of payroll obligations attached to yet another risky asset.

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The next stage is to fill the secondary holes:  Catcher, 4th OF, backup MI & setup man

 

Catcher: Pudge

Despite the fact that Omar has always liked him, he can be had for a cheap, $1-2M deal ($1.5M in '09) while providing still solid defense and some pop from the bottom of the order.  He batted .250 w/ 10 bombs in '09 and I'd hope for somewhat similar production in 2010 while giving Omir 2-3 days a week.  Disclaimer:  Not expecting a .300+ OBP from that duo, just give me 7-9 hrs and good D.  I'd also hope he could play mentor whenever Thole comes up, which I assume happens around mid-season after Omir turns back into a pumpkin.

Plan B -  Gregg Zaun is option 1A and I might even favor him to Pudge based on the contracts; either way he was just let go by TB and fits the cheap, decent hitting, decent fielding (decent OBP) place-holder role until Thole takes the job.  He's even open to the 'mentor to promising young catcher' role.  Rod Barajas would be allright as a similar player to Ramon Castro (good pop, rarely walks, often day-to-day) w/ a bit better glove; add him to the BABIP Bargain Bin (.234).  I'd also talk to ARZ who is looking to deal the decent Chris Snyder but the words 'back surgery' and 'catcher' don't mix well so who knows what he'd give you; probably too risky for someone owed $12M over the next 2 years unless they'd pick a lot up.  No way will I give declining Bengie Molina the multi-year deal (AND a raise from $6M no less) that he reportedly wants, even if he can still hit for power.

 

4th Outfielder: Matt Murton

We all know his deal:  Murton has proved that he can play at a pretty decent level in the majors (career .345 wOBA) yet can't get a fair shot.  Fangraphs compares him to Nelson Cruz  before he blew up this year.  Murton hits for average, his K/BB is always good, decent pop, he steals bases and he's a good fielder; the guy was even a first round pick out of a college baseball powerhouse, not that long back ('03).  Seriously, what the hell is going on here, is he being black-balled?  He would fit really well as a 4th OF/platoon partner for Pagan (Murton crushes lefties, Pagan righties) and could even steal the starting job.  Nobody claimed him when COL put him on waivers so he's still a Rockie but I can't imagine it'd cost much to get him.  If we had to trade, send them Eddie Kunz and be done w/ it. 

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When these 2 are together, great things happen...wait, that's not Obama.  Well just trust me, they'd be good.

Plan B - Coco Crisp is another low BABIP victim (.247 in '09) who likely could be had for cheap (especially if/when KC drops his option); similar all-around solid game as Murton but w/ less offense and more defense.  Off a down year I'd see if we could nab Fred Lewis for cheap.

 

Backup Middle Infielder: Adam Everett

Made $1M in '09, I'd offer the same and save the other million you'd spend on Cora.  Now I admit I'm kind of a sucker for the veteran leadership stuff w/ Cora but money talks.  Plus, Everett is a FAR better defender which MUST be a priority after what we witnessed on the infield in 2009.

Plan B - They'll probably bring back Cora which wouldn't be the end of the world but if they must have a veteran, I'd personally go for the cheaper/better version of Alex Cora, Omar Vizquel (made $1M in '09). 

 

Setup/8th inning RP: JJ Putz

I know we dropped the option, now try to bring him back for cheap and hope he's healthy, especially because in this plan you've already traded Parnell so there aren't many other in-house options; even w/ Parnell we probably need him.  I'm thinking the $2-3M neighborhood.  I don't imagine he sees many better financial offers off the injury/ineffectiveness but in case he gets the tempting option to close from somebody else, throw him a performance-based option for 2011 to sweeten the deal.  He doesn't need to be '07 Putz but just something moderately resembling that would be fine. 

Plan B - If Putz decides to move on, that's fine because Kiko Calero is an equal if not better option.  As Fangraphs proclaimed coming off his 1.4 WAR 2009, Kiko's Back but like Putz health is an issue w/ him.  If we can get him for a similar 1yr/$.5M deal as the Marlins did, I'd take him as my first option; he's risky but not any more so than Putz.  I also like the idea of Kelvim Escobar if he can be had for less than $3M on a 1yr deal.  I said it last year and I'll say it again (and now I bet more people will believe me), Chan Ho Park STRICTLY as a reliever works.  For the record, I am against guaranteeing multiple years to ANY non-elite relievers.

 

Odds & Ends

  • Murphy is a super-sub, where he'd cover the corner IF spots, maybe cover the OF in a pinch and be the primary pinch hitter, basically taking Tatis' role where he'd see about 300 ab's; As an aside, I feel that there is no offseason scenario where both Pagan and Murphy can be in the lineup everyday, IMO it's one or the other
  • Jeremy Reed is cut; The last spot on the bench goes to a better defensive OF, basically SIGN ENDY; unless he's still not healthy in which case Dewayne Wise would work fine or Laynce Nix, who is a surprisingly good fielder w/ very good power
  • Hold onto Pat Misch and try to replicate the Darren Oliver, 2nd lefty specialist/longman role;  However, he's on a short leash w/ Bostick waiting in Buff; I'd be tempted to bring back Oliver himself
  • The bullpen is already nearly filled out (I give both Green & Stokes another chance being a trusting/foolish person) but the last spot is saved for a Rule 5 guy because it's stupid not to take advantage of this creative opportunity; an early favorite of mine is former Phillies top prospect and TJ fiend Scott Mathieson, who is currently mowing people down in the AFL and is no longer on their 40 man; I like the hit rate on Japanese relievers
  • Fernando, Niese, Nieve, Gee, Stoner, Evans, Chris Carter & Thole begin in AAA, awaiting the call (as long as they're performing, obviously); Wilson Valdez is my first call if we need a MI, Anderson Hernandez can rot at Coca-Cola Field forever
  • That 5th spot in the rotation is NOT set in stone, it's up for whoever claims it during ST; If Ollie struggles, I don't hesitate to start him in AAA and give it to Niese or whoever earns it in March
  • Since you can't bat Pagan 2nd w/ Castillo there and his solid OBP is wasted in the 7-8 holes, I pull a LaRussa and bat him 9th; This way you capitalize on the typically unutilized above-average power that Reyes posesses as a leadoff man.  In a way you've basically got 2 leadoff hitters

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The Final Product: (click to enlarge)

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Overall, I'm projecting this roster's cumulative salary (w/ all of the acquisitions as well as contractual increases, likely arbitration raises, etc) at just about $139M compared to the $149M that we had in '09.  Obviously that figure changes if we shift from the Gonzalez/Plan A scenario to the Holliday/Plan B scenario.  But either way I feel this team (if healthy of course) is a strong contender for a playoff spot.

But basically, I'm consciously trying not to break the bank here because: 

  1. I'm tired of this team wasting resources
  2. After 2010 we will not be losing a lot of payroll like we did this offseason (base payroll may actually go up based on arbitration and raises)
  3. Next winter will be a big one for legitimately great top-tier FA pitching (Halladay, Lee, Beckett, Webb & Vazquez) and I want to see the Mets very active in that market.  Wouldn't it suck if we couldn't be because John Lackey was sitting on our DL w/ an elbow injury (which he's suffered both in '08 and '09) collecting $17M/yr?

So yeah, that's what I would do.  Feel free to criticize.

5 recs  |  Comment 214 comments |

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Comments

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Signing Harden and Bedard will be great

I am in the boat of giving Murphy another chance. His minorleague numbers reminds me of Adam Lind. I like Pagan but I am not sure if he can play a complete season without being injured or ill. I hope they release Francour.

by LCT on Oct 29, 2009 10:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

His numbers don't remind me of Adam Lind at all

Adam Lind hit 24 homeruns between AA and AAA at age 22. Daniel Murphy hit 24 homeruns, for his entire minor league career, without ever reaching AAA, at age 23. The difference in their minor league OPSes is about 100 points.

by Sam Page on Oct 29, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i dont think

your puzzle pieces are going to fit in the board. Very mets like of you.

by gbaked on Oct 29, 2009 11:00 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

good plan though

i like it. I am not too sure about getting gonzalas, I guess it could happen, but I can see another team swooping in and offering more. I would be very happy to have him though and I would not be sad to lose the guys you mention.

I agree 100% with you about the pitching. With the guys available as a FA next off season, we have to plan for that and not tie all our money into Lackey. Even if he is very good… he is going to be the benefactor of a week crop of FA pitchers. If he was the 1 missing piece, I would say go for it… but he is not.

I also agree 100% on pudge. I wish we signed him last season (hindsight). He would be a nice insurance policy. And if Thole comes out swinging… we can trade Omir or just send him down to AAA.

I would very much consider signing Holiday outright though. I think we need to take advantage of what will hopefully be one of the few offseasons we can sign a A level FA and keep our pick. If we can get Gonzo for what you say, cool… but I think Holiday is more viable. Especially because we have one of our best prospects at 1b and not in the OF. Pagan and Francour for RF is a nice hedge… one of them has a chance of breaking out.

by gbaked on Oct 29, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well

one of our best prospects (maybe still the best) is in the outfield.

My reasoning for preferring Holliday is b/c all he costs is money. I am a big fan of Adrian Gonzalez (it still pisses me off that Texas got him for Ugueth Urbina a week before we got absolutely nothing for Armando Benitez), and the fact that he’s put up those numbers in PETCO means he’d probably translate pretty well to Citi Field, but a prospect free deal for Holliday just seems easier and more realistic.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 29, 2009 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i cant get behind

FMart until he plays 1 healthy season.

I hope he does, but I wont write him in as a legit option until that happens.

by gbaked on Oct 29, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

I’d also say Holliday is better.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you there

The plan has merits, but I don’t think that package will even be enough to get SD talking about trading Gonzalez. He’s not expensive, and he’s not in his walk year yet. That package along with Niese or Mejia might be interesting for them, but the 4 guys you listed alone probably get answered by a dialtone.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

I think the theory behind a lot of the trade values here is somewhat sound, but trades aren’t about fitting players or prospects into defined roles, they’re about the best possible package the selling team can get, and I’m sure if Gonzo were available, at least the Red Sox and probably others would offer significantly better.

Also on Flores, I think he was a bit overrated a year ago. He deserved to be rated about as highly as a rookie league position player could be, but that only takes you so far, and not into Top 50 prospects in MLB territory, which is where he seemed to rank to some. Now he’s more fringe Top 100, which I think is about right. If he’s got the upside we all like to think he does, he’s got plenty of time to earn better prospects status

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Oct 29, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Either way, he's too far off to be a key component in a trade.

He’s a key component in this proposed deal, when in reality he’d be more likely to be a guy that tips the deal over the top.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trading for Gonzo

I like the idea of going balls out for Gonzo, and having Pagan in LF. This gives us speed defense and power. Pagan’s speed and defense, and Gonzo’s power and defense. I have thought long and hard about this, and it seems like a smart idea. The only problem with this is that it hurts our abilitity to trade for a top teir arm, and it also cleans out our farm once again.

I think Tejada, and Parnell might be a good starting point, but you have to add at least two of our best prospects. That means Ike, and Mejia. If I were Jed Hoyer I would ask for F-Mart, Mejia, and Ike. Maybe even Niese, Mejia, Ike/F-mart and Murphy.

You can’t forget that the Sox were after Gonzo. Now that you have a Redsox guy in SD, dialog will be a lot easier between the two parties.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take Holliday instead.

That gives you power and defense in left with Ike in the wings for first. Several solid first basemen will be available in the next few years if Ike fails to pan out.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

people don't realize

that trading players is dumb when you can sign a player instead and keep the players…

it’s a tough concept to wrap your mind around though

by firejerrymanuel on Oct 29, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't agree

I think under certain circumstance, trades are highly beneficially. The obvious would be if you have organizational depth in certain positions, then it would be wise to make a trade. One only has 8 places on the field and baseball players are seldom dynamic enough to play any position you throw them at.

Some players can be that missing piece that gets you over the top. I believe the saying is “pennants fly forever”. Look no further than the Philadelphia Phillies and Cliff Lee.

The balance is to strike a trade that helps, and does not cripple you in the long term.

I like the idea of bringing in A-Gon, but you have to be sure to keep the right guy. I feel Gonzalez is a better source of power and defense than Holliday. Lord knows what he does with some protection. If you are lucky to keep Ike in the deal, you could move him to RF or wait for two years to see if Ike develops then trade A-Gon for prospects.

I also feel that signing Holliday helps you take advantage of getting a type-a exemption, an bolstering your depth in the minors. Its not a bad move either.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 29, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may feel that way

but you’d be wrong Holliday is the better player at a more difficult position. Gonzalez has been an average defensive first baseman over his career while Holliday has been one of the best left fielders in baseball. Adrian has a bit more power, but Holliday is significantly better.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 29, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The numbers don't completely disagree with me though

Wasn’t Gonzalez the second best fielding 1st baseman in the NL? Hasn’t Holliday’s uzr been on a stead decline for the past few years. I know next year and the year after, his zone ratings will be solid, but at his pace, but its going to be a five to six year contract. What happens in year four, five six.

O.k. there is more of a premium on LF defense over 1B. With Castillo’s defense and Wrights throwing, the Mets could use the upgrade. Pagan would be a cheap option, with good LF range.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 29, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am having trouble finding it right now

Do you know off hand A-gon’s WAR compared to Holliday?

by Coolpapabell on Oct 29, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This year 6.4 to 5.2, Gonzalez had the better year

but over this is the first time Gonzalez has ever posted a WAR over 3.9. It could have just been a career year for Adrian, that’s what worries me.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 29, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rec'd

for the excellent citations to back up all your assertions.

The article that you linked about Adrian Gonzalez brought a question up in my mind – if the Red Sox are (I think I understood the article right) considering not picking up Victor Martinez’s option depending on what’s going on with Mauer, does he become a free agent if his option isn’t picked up by that “five days after the World Series” deadline?

by JoshNY on Oct 29, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Theo would still pick up the option.

Martinez would bring back a decent haul in a trade, and Theo would have no issue finding a taker.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why doesn't Theo just....

Why not just keep Martinez, and move him to first, if Mauer can’t be resigned. I don’t see why the Twinks can’t extend him factoring in the revenue from their new stadium and all.He is a Minnasota native and a key part of their core. I would think it would be suicide not to resign him at market value.

The Twins do have a young kid at the catching spot that could net something in return. It would be nice if Omar could place a call. A good old fashion prospect for prospect trade. I am sure Theo would look into this too. I think they need a short stop. Hello Tejada.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 29, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good stuff

agree with you completely about Lackey. I would so much rather get 2 out of Harden/Sheets/Bedard/Harang/Lowe and even Wolf than tie up money in Lackey.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 29, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Really?

Lackey has less of an injury history than Harden, Sheets and Bedard. I would take him over these three in a heartbeat.

by JDizzzy on Oct 29, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but all of them will be significantly cheaper than Lackey

and like Robcast said – next year there are some legitimately great pitchers available in free agency. It’s not exactly analogous, but look at the Yankees: they didn’t make the Santana trade b/c they knew Sabbathia was coming down the pipe a year later. Now they have Sabathia AND the guys they didn’t have to trade for Santana (Hughes, Melky, etc.)

I’m not criticizing the Mets for the Santana trade, mind you (we gave up nothing for him, and IMO we needed him more than the Yankees did), just saying that the Yankees were smart to look big picture. 2011 is just as important (if not moreso) than 2010.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 29, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

money

Yes money should be considered but there are two more things I think you should consider. 1st – The Mets are one of the richest teams in baseball. 2nd – I’d say without a major overhaul, this team only has a 2-3 year window left. Re-read Meddler’s fanpost on “The Coming of Exodus 2012”. I don’t want to bank a short-term window on Harden, Sheets and Bedard. They are probably destined for 1 year contracts pitching to prove their health. Lackey may cost more but would be signed for around 4-5 years I’m guessing and will give the Mets the 1-2 punch they need.

by JDizzzy on Oct 29, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the Mets are rich

but their pockets aren’t endless like the Yankees. And a healthy Sheets or Harden is actually a better pitcher than a healthy Lackey, for significantly cheaper. And if this team has a 2-3 year window left, why blow it all on this season, when there are better players available next year?

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 29, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Healthy Harden

isn’t really better then a healthy Harden

by Delgado on Oct 29, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually, yeah.

Healthy Harden’s a very good pitcher. Healthy Lackey is also quite good, but overrated.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Harden had never pitched over 200 innings in his career

Lackey has 4 times and got 198 inn 1 year so ill say five.

Harden walks lots of batters and can’t go deep in a game lots he gets lots of K’s and BB’s.

Lackey has a very low walk rate and can go at least 7 innings per start.

We have over used our bullpen since 2006 because our starters couldn’t last long Harden is another guy who fits in that mold.

by Delgado on Oct 29, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give me Harang/Vazquez/Lowe in a trade

and sign one of Harden/Sheets/Bedard, and we’re good to go.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how long

While I like that option as well, how many years for Harden/Sheets/Bedard? Maybe Harden could get a 3 year deal but I don’t see Sheets getting anything more than 1 year and 1-2 years for Bedard. Are you going all out in 2010 and dealing with 2011 when it comes or trying to put together a package of players to compete for the next 3-4 years?

by JDizzzy on Oct 29, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't touch Vazquez.

His value is likely at an all time high, and he’s only signed for one season. As good as he is, I can’t see us getting him at a bargain.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WHy do people want Lowe

He makes 15 mil a year is signed for three more years and had a bad year last year. Trading for Lowe would be an atrocity

by Delgado on Oct 29, 2009 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd prefer Vazquez, but I wouldn't call it an ATROCITY

remember, we have Ollie for that.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we could trade

Frenchy for Lowe it wouldn’t be an atrocity, if we give up any prospects and have to take his full salary I’d say its an Omar move.

by Delgado on Oct 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the problem

In my opinion we needed a 1B, LF, and SP for the past two years….and I have no faith the front office manages to fill all three this year.

by JDizzzy on Oct 29, 2009 12:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

ok well first the problem is your avatar

i have a hard time taking you seriously as a mets fan w/ that.

second, you’re wrong. in ‘08 we had a top 5 starters’ era. and i guess you didn’t like delgado’s 38hrs in ’08 either? and of course we needed them in ’09, every guy on the team spent time on the dl.

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually you're wrong...dead wrong

After ‘07 no one wanted Delgado. So it was a position that was questionable and many fans wanted to see a move. Granted that wasn’t an easy task. Delgado’s 38 HRs were awesome, but no one saw that coming. He had a 2nd half for the ages. He’s wasn’t going to repeat that performance in 09 and certainly isn’t in 2010. I’m not saying he’s terrible but the position was a problem going forward.

LF has been a problem all three years and I notice you don’t mention that.

Yes the staff had a great year in 08 but who are you kidding? You didn’t see that coming and now most of those guys are all question marks. I beleive you need 2 front of the line starters to win a championship and we haven’t had that. So its fair to say SP has been a concern for the last few years if not longer.

by JDizzzy on Oct 29, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that Delgado was a question in 2008

But I didn’t feel the rotation was quite so much. With Santana coming in to combine with Maine and Perez, both young and coming off excellent years, and a developing Pelfrey, the pieces of a good rotation seemed to be there. There were a lot more red flags in 2008 than before 2008, such as Perez producing more in line with his DIPS numbers, Maine getting hurt, and the defense being subpar after being excellent in 2007, and now awful in 2009.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Oct 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I still think they needed a true #2 to compete for a title though and I never said the rotation was bad.

by JDizzzy on Oct 29, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dead wrong huh?

the staff was ranked fifth in ERA 2008 and exactly the same, fifth, the year before in 2007. so yeah, i wasn’t TOO shocked when it happened again. maybe you didn ’t see it coming but i did.

and no i wasn’t floored by delgado in ‘08 either. many uneducated fans were, but i on the other hand coupled the fact that he’d hit 30+ hrs for the prior 10 consecutive years before ’07 along w/ the fact that he was nursing an injury the entire ’07 season to conclude that he would probably be ok in 2008. and he was. and those calling for omar to find another option at first were dead wrong.

i won’t argue w/ you about LF but name for me the last team that didn’t have 1 issue anywhere on the field.

and as far as this mandate that you must have 2 front line starters to win the WS, talk to the ‘08 phillies, the ’06 cardinals, the ’02 angels and i could go on. yes, i agree w/ you its nice to have those things but forgive me for not calling it a lost year in april since we didn’t.

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

relax

You were obviously annoyed at my avatar, which is tongue and cheek by the way, and please show me where I stated that all teams that ever won the WS had 2 ace’s. Try having a discussion and making points rather than attacking the first thing you see.

Regarding LF, most teams have weak points in the lineup, but when you are trotting out the likes of Brady Anderson and a washed up Trot Nixon, its not a weakness, its a flat out problem. I didn’t need the Mets to go get an all-star but someone who was middle of the pack or even just below would have been adequate. Again, given the Mets cash flow, this shouldn’t have been a problem.

The ‘08 Phillies have a stellar hitting lineup and play in a band box. Don’t you think the Mets, playing in a pitchers park, might do better with pitching than all-or-nothing HR hitters like Delgado. His ‘07 was abismal. While I agree that he was headed for better luck and slightly better year, no “educated” Mets fan should have been predicting 40 HRs from an aging Delgado. Its really annoying that instead of making points you go right to implying that you are an “educated” Mets fan and I am not. I could sit here and tell you that I would bet you anything that I know more about baseball than you do (which is true) but that would just be a pissing contest. I’m not here to argue, I just wanna debate the moves the Mets make and might want to make in the future.

by JDizzzy on Oct 29, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well it was brady clark, not brady anderson

so i guess that settles that pissing contest.

and second, while yes your avatar bugs me, i’ve done nothing but making points, use statistics and numbers to back my claims no less, while you keep using subjective statements to make your argument like calling delgado’s 2007 “abismal” (i think you meant abysmal) and calling him an “all-or-nothing HR hitter” in 2008 (when he batted .271 w/ a .351 OBP and actually had 33 non-HR xbh’s) or needing a "middle of the pack or even just below " LF in 2008 (when in fact the cumulative Mets LF OPS+ in 2008 was a 92, just below average).

also, i’m not trying to be a jerk or anything. like your avatar, being a bit tongue in cheek.

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not exactly...

 “(when in fact the cumulative Mets LF OPS+ in 2008 was a 92, just below average).” For LF, specifically, 92 is WELL below average.

by SeanSchirmer on Oct 30, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One correction:

Back Pagan up w/ a very capable 4th OF in case of injury or extended slumps.

You seem to have mis-spelled “Endy Chavez” there.

by Eric Simon on Oct 29, 2009 1:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I believe you misspelled mis-spelled...

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm all for Erik Bedard

When healthy, he’s exactly the kind of pitcher that we need. Having some decent pitching in front of him in Santana can only help, I think, since he seems like the guy very happy to compliment, but not necessarily in the light.

But, all in all, with that projected pitching rotation, I don’t know if I like it. Harden, he has a weird pattern of having a bad year, and then two or three good years, so we can assume that he’ll have a good year next season, but we can’t guarantee it. If he posts numbers like he did this season, we’re basically not solving anything- we’re plugging in another back-of-the-end starter into the front of the rotation, like we did with Pelfrey this season. Utilizing Maine, Pelfrey, and Perez, given their performances of late, scares me. Maine, I like him, but he’s coming off of all that injury, Pelfrey, he needs to show that he can put everything together mentally to be a good pitcher, and Perez…That’s self-explanatory (though I like him, mostly). Plugging in a recovered Bedard does a lot to bolster that rotation, but again, we’re hoping that he’s effective when he comes back.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 29, 2009 1:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

that package for adrian gonzalez

is a traveshamockery.

i award you no points, and may god have mercy on your soul

by firejerrymanuel on Oct 29, 2009 2:08 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i used the lee/peavy deals as models

more lee though because he and gonzo’s situations are closer. i looked at peavy because it was the padres.

for lee they were paying for 1.5 years of a star level player at a rate of ~$8M/season.

lee was acquired for 4 guys: 1 very young, high upside pitcher (knapp), 2 low ceiling, nearly major league ready guys (marson & donald) and another high minors guy that could be very good (carrasco). beyond lee that package even got them ben francisco too.

peavy is different because he makes more but he’s controlled for more years, which is a good thing. and the package again was 4 guys: a star level, nearly ready pitcher who may project as a bullpen fireballer (poreda), 1 good young major league pitcher (richard), a high upside lo A-ball pitcher (carter) and a low ceiling minors pitcher of little consequence (russell).

gonzo would be 2 years of star level play (at a less in-demand position) at a rate of ~$5M/season so his situation is not very different.

yes, i know each situation is different but all i can do is follow recent models and following those my deal (assuming familia instead of carson) isn’t far off.

even the VMart deal is somewhat similar. the sox gave up 3 guys: a nearly major league ready pitcher with decent upside (masterson) and 2 high ceiling A-ball pitchers, 1 coming off TJ (hagadone) and 1 whose put up middling results (price)

none of these packages are the gigantic, farm system shattering hauls that you guys seem to think occur for these type players. the bedard trade was the exception, not the rule.

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not on the Rich Harden train at all

He is incredibly injury prone, will want 9 or 10 million, and honestly, he really isn’t that good. He walks way too many people, averages barely over 5 innings a start, and is not the #2 we need.

Lackey for 5 years and $100 million, but if you can get him fo4 4 and 70 something million, you have to bite the bullet and sign him.

I doubt we’d be able to get AG or PF for 1st base, but Cantu/Murphy wouldn’t be bad.

As for the two corner OF spots, I’d go Holliday in left and Francoeur and Hermida in right.

by Syler on Oct 29, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Excellent post.

I’d go a very different way when building the team however. Like you I’d assume Francoeur is in right field, Beltran in center, Reyes, Wright, and Castillo ont the infield. Johan, Pelfrey, and Perez are virtual locks for rotation spots (Perez due to $$$). I for one believe that Perez will be much closer to the 2008 Ollie than what we saw last year. I wasn’t 100% sold that his knee was the cause of his poor pitching at first, but the surgery he had along with the Mets inability to handle any injury properly are enough for me to believe that it likely had a very real impact on his season.

My #1 goal would be to sign Matt Holliday. He’s an excellent blend of hitting and defense, and besides money he’d only cost us a 2nd round pick. I really believe not touching our farm system this offseason needs to be a priority. Locking him up solidifies center and left for the next few seasons, leaving right as the most likely place for Martinez to break through. Pagan would be an excellent 4th outfielder, with F! getting regular at bats in Buffalo. I’d hope Nick Evans has a chance to be our 5th outfielder.

At 1st base I’d look at Delgado on an incentive laden 1 year deal. If he’s not receptive to that, the Mets should be able to find a taker between Nick Johnson, Hank Blalock, or Troy Glaus (not quite as high on Glaus). I’m open to quite a few options here, and 1st base seems to have quite a few options that should only need a 1 yr relatively cheap commitment. Murph and Evans should both be on the team if this strategy crashes and burns, so at least we have a solid plan B already in place.

Like you, I find Lackeys cost prohibitive. I’d prefer to see either Harden, Sheets, or Bedard signed to a one year deal (hopefully with a team option for a 2nd year). If our risk/reward pitcher breaks down, I’d be ok with Johan, Pelfrey, Perez, Maine, and Niese as a temporary plan B. We haven’t made any trades yet, so ineffectiveness or injury can be corrected midseason as we still have all of our chips. I’d look at Wang if he’s non-tendered, and Harang if all we have to do is eat his salary.

I don’t think Putz will be back at 2 or 3 million, so I’d let him walk (if he actually would take that I’d be onboard with you). K-rod, Parnell, Pedro, Bostick, and Green would all be choices of mine (although I doubt Bostick will actually be there), and the Mets should take several rule 5 picks and hope they stick. If they’d like to sign a veteran arm, there should be several available on the cheap for 1 year deals. The bullpen is just to unpredictable to sink large amounts of money into, espescially with Jerry’s inability to use these guys properly.

As for Catcher, I really don’t see too many good options out there. I’d wait for the non-tenders to happen and see if anything interesting appears, and if not I’d probably be on-board with Pudge. Let Thole develop some more at AAA, and when Omar realizes that Santos sucks we have him ready to go. There are sevral non-tender candidates who shouldn’t cost anything but minor league filler in a trade, so I might look at that route here.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Not that I have the answers but a rotation of

Pelfrey, Santana, Harden, Maine and Ollie sounds good on paper-but what is the plan when 2-3 of them are on the DL for the majority of the season?

Also, bringing back the same pen doesn’t exactly get me excited.

Not sure about Pagan as a starting LFer. He has little power, and horrible baseball IQ. He showed repeatedly he has no idea how to run the bases and often misjudges balls he has to come in for.

by Rigsay on Oct 29, 2009 2:53 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Santana, Harden, Pelfrey, Maine and PerezDOESN'T sound good on paper

That’s the main problem.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 29, 2009 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, getting Harden should be contingent on getting someone else

ala Harang

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What your offering in trades

Nick Evans? Mike Antonini? Eddie Kunz?!! C’mon any GM would be fired if they traded for these guys. They all suck. When you propose to trade prospects, you can’t just throw in all the garbage in your minor league system and expect someone else to take on your failures. But the rest of the post is very good. I particularly like the idea of unloading Castillo’s heinous contract in exchange for another heinous contract. You may be on to something there.

by TomSeaver on Oct 29, 2009 2:54 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You are right

He got lazy with the trade proposal to the Reds.

Niese and Maine would get it done. I would not be happy with that, but it would get it done.

by Coolpapabell on Oct 29, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you have to realize hes been a $12M/2WAR pitcher

and if the reds won’t take any of his $12.5M salary, harang becomes a salary dump that they’re trying to shed at the expense of a big package in return. if they want to dump the cash but get a good package they won’t be able to move him.

$12M is A TON for a 32yr old whose been very knicked up between ’08 and ’09, including an arm injury, and just pitched 2 pretty crappy years in a row. like i said in the post, if they DO pick up a bunch of salary, then i give them more/better players.

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh and murton was DFA'd very recently

the rockies basically let him go, expecting absolutely nothing in return for him. so what could they possibly be asking for now? they’d be lucky to be getting anything back (even if it is kunz).

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Evans doesn't suck.

As the right handed half of a corner outfield platoon, he’s actually the opposite of suck.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i love how

everyone uses small sample size to prove the stupidity of the FO, but with evans, they trumpet his MLB splits as gospel

by firejerrymanuel on Oct 29, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those and his minor league stats which are pretty awesome

.987 OPS vs LHP compared to .653 OPS vs RHP. I think most of the love with his platoon potential is because how great he was in the minors vs. lefties.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 29, 2009 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stupid me those are this years stats

.934 OPS vs LHP and .762 OPS vs. RHP are his career numbers.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 29, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

which is debatedly more promising

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's....

a bit of a lie. his MLB stats are usually cited as proof of his lefty-bashing.

i don’t disagree, but i’ve seen it on more than one occasion when people use his MLB stats.

by firejerrymanuel on Oct 29, 2009 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're taking the usage out of context

Its more that people use the limited sample to support the notion that his minor league numbers could be translatable to the majors. Small samples aren’t irrelevant, they’re just not strong evidence of anything on their own, but when they fail to falsify a point supported by a larger data set, they are certainly relevant.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Oct 29, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Pagan batting 9th, after the pitcher. Don’t see Manual submitting that lineup card.

by englishgrey on Oct 29, 2009 3:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and the Mets finish dfl in 2010

this is awful, you are a dreamer and then some. If we were giving up David Wright for those guys would you be happy? because I would be pretty ticked off.

by astromets on Oct 29, 2009 3:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i don't

totally understand why you brought up wright…

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 29, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where does this post say anything about trading Wright?????

What exactly are you referring to?

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wha?

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

harden

i love harden, but i worry about having him in the same rotation as ollie and maine. all three of those pitchers have trouble going deep into games. they could potentially wear out the mets’ bullpen by the end of the season.

by englishgrey on Oct 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I just skimmed through it and I really don't like one aspect at all.

We have Ike Davis, so why block him with Gonzalez? Especially when Holliday is cheaper, better, plays a position where we don’t have a top prospect coming up (F! can play right) and only costs money not prospects.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 29, 2009 3:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I've heard he's very slow

Besides, he’s supposed to be a good glove at first.

And in my post, I didn’t mean to say Holliday would be cheaper, he’s getting a payday. Hopefully not too large a one.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 29, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

since people are giving their opinion

My number one priorities, in order, would be an ace-like SP, a LF, 2B, C, bullpen, getting rid of Ollie, other starters and bench. At first base, I have confidence in Murphy with Carter/Evans as a platoon partner and fifth outfielder.
For the ace-like SP I would offer Lackey the contract Burnett got last year, then up to 90 mil before looking the trade route. For a trade I would contact Toronto and trade a few of our top prospects to get Roy. I would be willing to give up all MiLB players for Halladay except: Mejia, Nieuwenhuis, Davis, Tejada, Thole, Carter, Evans and Niese, and believe we have the talent to do it. I feel those guys will be most able to contribute to the big league team over the next few years. If these guys didn’t pan out I would call Seattle with my fingers crossed expecting a ’King’s’ ransom so probably fall back to Wolf.
In left, Holliday is the no-brainer number one choice, and I am assuming here the Mets are willing to pay for the number one starter and LF they need. The need for him is lessened if we can exchange Castillo for Hudson (see below), but he wouldn’t hurt. If we are too cheap then I am not settling for Bay, but looking the trade route. Word is that the Rays need to get rid of either Crawford or Upton, so I would call them and see what it took because either of them would represent a huge upgrade. Depending on other moves, Sheffield would be an interesting fall back option since he hit for us and wants to be in OF shape.
At second, defense is killing our pitchers so Luis has gotta go for whatever we can get. Really, anything, like when we gave away Robbie Alomar for Royce Ring. People have been talking about Hudson not being much of an upgrade, but while his numbers aren’t too different on O, everything else seems to be. Luis walks with a gimp always, seems a little showy, and hasn’t had the best reputation in the clubhouse since he arrived, whereas O-Dog has been loved everywhere and just puts his head down and plays hard. He can do everything Luis can with the bat and more, so he is useful outside of the 2 hole, and his D has got to be better. Other 2B could work if they got a good glove, thats what should be focused on.
At catcher we need someone with a good reputation on D, and not just one made good by Omar when he caught for him, and some pop wouldn’t hurt. Bengie Molina is perfect because he and kung-fu panda were SF’s main pop, and is revered defensively. Thole needs an influence like his.
As for the rest, another lefty would be nice, and the bullpen should have more better options next year – the work done in the bullpen this offseason should be teaching Jerry how to manage it well for 162 games. Marquis or Wolf would be nice, or just someone who we should feel confident can give us innings and health. Some other role players would be nice too, but that is the point of having a good minor league system – we don’t waste too much money on the Tatis’s and Redding’s of the world. I liked the Redding signing last year, if he was paid less and not expected to make the rotation ever.

by astromets on Oct 29, 2009 3:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

skimmed briefyl

saw bengie molina.

fail.

by firejerrymanuel on Oct 29, 2009 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of

mejia or holt would have to go for halladay (i would rather holt) along with prolly tejada and F!/Nieu

And O-dog if he gets a similar deal to last year is ok, otherwise I am not paying him because he plays hard or does things the right way. Hudson just isn’t that much better than Castillo and is declining just as much as Luis

Molina = retarded, sorry ir just is the guy is awful

And Robcast pretty much tore apart the Lackey argument

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 29, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

typing in class fail

meant to say

molina = retarded, sorry the guy is just awful

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 29, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Molina sucks

but I don’t think the lackey argument is tore up. Lackey may not cost as much as everyone thinks. He could get a contract slightly better then Lowe maybe make 16-17 mil a year and we will get him in his prime for roughly three of those years.

I think I why Lackey makes sense post is in order.

by Delgado on Oct 29, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but hes no longer in his prime

look at his WARs since 2005:

05: 5.9
06: 6.0
07: 5.6
08: 2.0
09: 3.9

couple that with the fact that he’s been much less durable, logged FAR fewer ip the last 2 years as well as the fact that he’s 31 and i’d say it’s pretty clear his prime ended between ‘07-’08. he’s still a good pitcher but he’s not an ace and by no means does he deserve that much money.

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Crawford and Halladay would cost every good prospect in the system that's within 3 years of the majors.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lee/Vmart

didn’t pull a massive haul. I can see halladay gettin done with two of our tops and a B-/C prospect

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 29, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Halladay and Crawford are bigger names and better

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 29, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bigger names yes

but Lee and Vmart were season and a half while its only a year of halladay. You dont think Holt, Tejada, Nieu, Marte could get it done?

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 29, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No way.

Mejia, F! or Davis has to be in the trade and I don’t want Halladay anyway.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 29, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

idk, Evan

People are starting to get pretty high on Nieu. I’ve seen some Top 100s with him in like the 70s (!).

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really

That puts a smile on my face, haven’t seen any of those. If that’s what it take, yeah, you make the trade, but I wouldn’t if it included any of the three I mentioned.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 29, 2009 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Mets comparable offer for Lee would have been Niese, Tejada, Thole, and Holt. He cost a ton.

V-mart would be something like Parnell, Mejia, and Familia (Masterson>Parnell, Mejia>Hagdone…closest comps I could think of). Thats a massive haul

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 29, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow i'm sorry but you're way off on the lee deal

i mean this is subjective but i think you’re way off base here. i mean tejada had success in AA and he’s 5 years younger than jason donald who just had a horrid year in AAA! thats not comparable at all. knapp put up 2 bad seasons in A ball then had shoulder surgery, holt dominated A ball and held his own in AA. carrasco struggled through many stops of the minors posting a minor league era of 4.23 while niese hasn’t really had a bad year since back in A ball posting a 3.74 minor league era. i’ll give you thole and marson, though thole is posting mid-400 SLG’s while marson is consistently in the 300’s.

in the vmart deal, mejia tops anyone the sox lost and its not really close. masterson’s best era in an extended stop at any single level in the minors was a 4.23 era in AA. and remember hagadone just came back from TJ and he just put up a 5.06 era in A+ for CLE. and bryan price just posted a 5.98 at the same level; he is the typical big arm/bad results future reliever, like parnell was except he’s still in A ball. sorry but i think you missed w/ those comps.

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Most scouting publications had Knapp rated higher than Holt and in close proximity to Mejia at the midway point this season. I like the Holt comp because both rely heavily on a great fastball.

Carrasco and Niese are actually pretty good minor league comparables, both pitched better than their era’s would indicate at AAA (Niese didn’t exactly have a sparkling ERA either). Carrasco has slightly better stuff while Niese is left-handed. Thole and Marson are very close comps, and Tejada is the closest guy we had to Donald (Donald is coming off his worst season in the minors, but looked very promising prior to this season). Knapp being Rated higher than Holt by most was the reasoning for my plugging Tejada in for Donald.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 30, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Niese's ERA would've been 10th in the IL had he qualified

and that’s after his “bad” start.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 30, 2009 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i guess i can buy holt=knapp

even though i personally don’t get why people were quite so high on knapp (having put up mediocre results in A-ball and being so-called damaged goods at the time of the trade) at that point people did think that he was on holt’s level…BA had them both in their mid-season ‘second 25’.

however, you’re trying too hard to fit players of like position into this trade model when its more about players of like value. yes, tejada and donald both play 2nd but thats where the similarities end. tejada was/is at the apex of his value, like you said donald was in the midst of his worst season. they also play very different styles and again, tejada is more than 5 years younger and his ceiling is a whole lot higher than donald’s.

like i said, i’ll buy thole=marson. now maybe this is where my mets bias comes into play but i just don’t see carrasco and niese at the same value. you’re right they both pitched better than their ERA’s in AAA but niese was at 3.82 while carrasco was at 5.18, and that was his 2nd full season in AAA while niese was still in his first. in fact, carrasco’s lowest ERA in his 4 years above A-ball was 4.32. niese has actually gotten better as he’s moved up the minors, posting his worst ERA’s back as a teenager and then posting nothing but mid-3’s and lower in AA and AAA. they may have similar ceilings in terms of stuff but carrasco can’t be considered comparable to niese until he proves he can succeed above AA, while niese is having success in the majors. their major league reults are right in line w/ what i’m saying: both made 5 starts in the majors this year, niese put up a 4.21ERA while carrasco was at 8.87.

by robcast23 on Oct 30, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bengie Molina: JKLFHDS:FHDSFK:DHJSKF

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Word

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 30, 2009 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

bengie molina

bengie molina is much better in this stage of his carrer than pudge is

by nymrjk on Oct 29, 2009 4:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

they are both pretty bad

and pudge won’t command a multi year deal at 5+. Thinking Molina is any good is terrible. Him and Frenchie in the same lineup = a 6 pitch inning no matter the 3rd hitter

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 29, 2009 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not defensively

molina has that good rep but he has completely fallen apart as he’s aged, pudge hasn’t. and the difference offensively isn’t enough to make up the difference in salaries, assuming molina expects multiple years and a lot more than the $1.5M pudge got this year (molina made $6M this year)

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good work

However, I would be worried about having the injury prone Rich Harden, Erik Bedard, Oliver Perez, and John Maine all on the same pitching staff. Especially with the lack of depth in the Mets’ system and the apparently inept training staff.

by boom_roasted on Oct 29, 2009 4:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice job

But, seeing as he is durable, have you thought about Wolf?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Oct 29, 2009 6:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I really think

that last year was the time to get Wolf (even though I really didn’t want him lowe or ollie) and I will admit i was wrong about Wolf comin into 2009. But I wouldn’t wanna overpay for him now. His peripherals looked pretty good this year but I could see him regressing a lot next year. I guess injuries are what played the role in his terrible 2005-06, and his FIPs are pretty good in all seasons but that one. Maybe it’s just a biased thing for me cause I had decent expectations for him when he first came up.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 29, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exactly

i said it in the post, i wouldn’t mind wolf but word is that he’ll be looking for a 3yr deal at this point which is too much. and you hit the nail on the head regarding him regressing in 2010 (exhibit a: his career low .257 BABIP in ‘09). he’s decent but not on a 3yr deal, i’d go as high as 2yrs/$14-15M.

by robcast23 on Oct 29, 2009 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd

be hesitant to give him even that much honestly. 2/10 I’d do but I could be way off there.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 29, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

While I agree on the 2 yr deal and the fact that he had a .257 BABIP

but he did a 4.37 tRA*

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Oct 30, 2009 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dislike the Gonzalez trade idea

I think it’s a sound poprosal, but I can’t see trading more prospects away when a there is an equivalent offensive option available via free agency in Holiday.

by Reg Dunlop on Oct 29, 2009 7:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

even more insane than the proposal

is somebody not wanting to do it.

wow. insanity.

by firejerrymanuel on Oct 29, 2009 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i would do it

i would just prefer Holliday.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 29, 2009 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this place is getting snipey

i kind of don’t get the tone of this thread: this is the most magical time of the year when the mets don’t disgrace the game of baseball on the field anymore and we can be alone with our hopes and dreams.

Someone actually sniped Simon somewhere above.

i hope “your can think that, but you’d be wrong” doesn’t become an AA meme. Remember, every time you start a post with a snipe on AA, a baby seal gets clubbed/Omar gets another contract extension.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Oct 29, 2009 9:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather be watching an awful Mets team

than this World Series.

I miss the Mets…

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Oct 29, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i miss the 2006 mets

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Oct 29, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can we choose between a baby seal being clubbed and Omar getting an extension?

I hear baby seals like to go clubbing, anyway…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 30, 2009 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gonzalez

It looks like Boston has all the pieces to get gonzalez from the padres(buckholtz + prospects) The Mets could still get him in a 3 way but it will cost them either Reyes or Beltran. Let;s face it the met’s chemistry sucks(The phils have been rebuilding their offense over the past 5 years(if rolens or abreu were a met they would still be here)
Offensively I like A Gonzalez or Crawford over Holliday(to expensive) I also like nyjer morgan .307/42 SB over Pagan and I think Orlando Hudson would be good fit for the mets. We also need a #2 and 3 SP/ will Maine be healthy and will pelfrey and perez overcome their psychological problems on the mound. I’d prefer to have harden and arroyo and please let’s wait till spring to decide about thole before we send him to Buffalo/ he was the only bright spot in sept 53AB and .321 BA

by bob c on Oct 29, 2009 9:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am really hoping

the love affair with O-dog ends at the fans. The guy is terribly overrated by everyone but torre (I still don’t understand why torre played belliard over him).

And trading anyone from our core for anybody not named Pujols is just a lateral move. So Beltran or Reyes wouldn’t be included.

by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 29, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed about O-Dog

He has a cooler name than Castillo, and a little more power, but I’d prefer Castillo. He’s been much more consistent, at a higher level of play, for longer in his career.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Oct 30, 2009 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

met's 2010

They need to change something soon or they will be battling for 3rd place next year/ the #1 priority is pitching so we better start there and please don’t include perez in the rotation until he proves he belongs there

by bob c on Oct 29, 2009 11:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i think the core is "safe" for now

since they’re all arguably damaged goods in one way or another. Even Wright’s concussions would give me pause if i were a gm not named Omar.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Oct 29, 2009 11:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

now that it's 1-1

who’s gonna not lose the world series? Any predictions?

Emotionally I am with those who hope its the Spankers.

I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya

by itsmetsforme on Oct 29, 2009 11:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yanks in 5.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 30, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Adrian Gonzalez

I’d think the Padres would want a very top heavy deal, maybe more focused on starting pitching. They have Blanks, Venable and Gwynn in the outfield already and Kouzmanoff is a sufficient 3B.

Also, relievers with reps get ridiculous deals. Think $5-6 million for JJ.

by METSMETSMETS on Oct 29, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That team still gets raked by Philadelphia...

and I don’t see SD letting Gonzalez go for that. If they do, they might as well give up. They are not under the same money constraints as last offseason when Moores sold the team and with Peavy gone, he is really the only draw on that team.

We need top-tier pitching (try to pry Halladay), an improved Pelf, a healthy Beltran and a Russel Branyan to fall in to our laps. Not too much to ask, right?

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.

by AnthonyR on Oct 30, 2009 12:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Holliday>Halladay in terms of use to us.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 30, 2009 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How so?

We have a number 1 pitcher and 4 number 5’s. We need to put a premium on pitching and defense in this park.

I’ll take a Pagan/Endy platoon and $15 million a year over “groin shot” Holliday anyday.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.

by AnthonyR on Oct 30, 2009 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pelfrey is a good pitcher

He’s one of the better “number 3s” (I hate that label) in baseball.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 30, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's good in "theory"

His stats are those of a fringe rotation guy. He needs to start realizing his potential.

He “can be” a good pitcher, but he has done absolutely nothing to say that he is “one of the better number 3s in baseball”.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.

by AnthonyR on Nov 1, 2009 7:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He was 66th in FIP this year I believe

so if the top 30 pitchers in baseball are number 1s, 30-60 are 2s, then 60-90 are numbers 3s.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Nov 1, 2009 7:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

actually yes, he has

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 1, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And Holliday has been the best left fielder in baseball that last 3 years

by far the best offensively and one of the 3 or 4 best defensively.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 30, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i feel like we agree on everything, haha

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 30, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He is a very good player

But I think he is going to get vastly overpaid. I’d rather wait one more year for Crawford or make a deal.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.

by AnthonyR on Nov 1, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

uh, Pelfrey is not a #5.

Neither is Niese, most likely. Even Maine, with all of his injuries, is usually a good pitcher when healthy…though that’s a big if.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 30, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Niese hasn't been around long enough to evaluate his Big League potential,

Mainer has good stuff but has had the injury bug and I don’t know why people give Pelf a free pass. He sucked this year and he’s getting too old to say that he still has potential. There are a lot of pitchers his age who have “figured it out”.

Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but Jerry abuses the privilege.

by AnthonyR on Nov 1, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's pretty easy to see that Niese is a major league pitcher, judging by his AAA stats.

Almost every scout that’s seen him says he’s in the conversation for safest mid-rotation starter bet in baseball. Pelfrey’s peripherals were as good if not better than last year. Except, he had a terrible infield defense. Which, surprise surprise, is going to negatively affect one of the foremost groundball pitchers in baseball.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 1, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Holliday also only costs $ and a 2nd round pick.

Halladay costs many of our top prospects. Probably at least two of Davis, Mejia, Martinez, Niese.

by boom_roasted on Oct 30, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep the prospects

With Gonzalez having such a reasonable contract, he is going to be expensive in terms of prospects.

I’d rather the Mets take a long-term view instead of chasing the present; good players earning the minimum are just too valuable too give up on a two-year rental.

If the Mets acted more like some well-run small market teams—but instead judiciously resigned its own stars when they’re up for free agency—they’d get a lot more value for their high payroll. For example, if the Mets can get a few top prospects for Beltran, then they have to make that deal.

by DoghouseBlues on Oct 30, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My preference for the Mets is to 1.) keep all our prospects. 2.) keep all our draft picks. 3.) put all our money into identifying, drafting, signing and developing the young players. 4.) give them a chance at the major league level and push them with competition from below. There is no way we will ever be able to win consistently if we always have to go outside to fill 2 or 3 spots every year. The one thing we cannot do is have another huge contract on the disabled list. How would this team look if we had a young major league ready position player and pitcher coming up every year? Even the Yankees give some of their youngsters a chance. The young players give you their best years at the least cost, play harder, are less injury prone and form a culture that the occasionally acquired free agent has to conform to. This how you get chemistry on the field. David Wright was drafted by us as a supplemental draft choice for losing a free agent. Billy Wagner cost us a draft choice (+ suppl pick) and the Phillies drafted 2 great young prospects that will make it harder for us to compete with them and it improves their roster flexibility. Now Billy COULD have closed the last game of the World Series for us and that would have been great but perhaps Izzy could have done the same or maybe Parnell will down the road. Either way I would rather have the solution coming up from the farm then always having to go outside the organization and I sure wouldn’t mind having one of those two young players philly got (Kyle Drabek RHP 8-2 3.64 in AA or Adrian Cardenas 2B .838 OPS w/Oak’s AA for losing him.

by t agee on Oct 30, 2009 11:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why not sign Holliday though?

We don;t have two top outfield prospects coming up anytime soon so he wouldn’t be blocking anyone. And Mejia is every bit as good as Drabek and Havens/Tejada have as much potential as Cardenas.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 30, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Worst case scenario, you have Holliday and Beltran and someone like Francouer/Pagan. Best case, you have Beltran, Holliday, Martinez, and Nieuwenhuis all vying for starting time by 2012.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 30, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your right about Holliday since he won’t be blocking anyone, does provide something we are lacking, plays good defence at a non premium position and will cost us only a #2 pick in june. However what will Boris want for him? He’s 30 years old now so my guess is 5 or 6 years. Roy has had 2 monster years while playing at coors field where he hit twice the home runs he did on the road. He is not a pull home run hitter instead using LF to RC for the majority of his home runs. less and less LF and more and more LC CF RC exactly where home runs turn into doubles or worse outs. His power has declined from 36 hrs to 25 to 24 over the last 3 years. If he were to play 1/2 his games here I expect it to continue even more rapidly. Now can he help us? Yeah sure he can especially on the road. (he likes hitting in Philly) but will he tie up too much payroll for us to compete for a FA pitcher next year? and will he turn into George Foster in years 5 and 6? Roy Halliday is a good but not great hitter ( One home run lifetime at Shea) I would go 3 years 45 mil no more.

by t agee on Nov 1, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

"Roy Halliday is a good but not great hitter."

I agree with this statement. The Mets definitely shouldn’t give Boris what he wants.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Nov 1, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Badanoff or Karloff?

by ol Pete on Nov 4, 2009 11:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeltsin

At this point in time, giving Yeltsin anything, I feel, would be a bad move.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 4, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I honestly cannot tell if this is satire or not.

It’s probably too early to be drunk, right?

by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 1, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

TWO DIFFERENT PEOPLE ohmygoditburns

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 1, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good points...

But we’re not the Rays or the A’s. We have money and it wouldn’t hurt to spend some of it, in addition to being a smart organization.

by boom_roasted on Oct 30, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the problem is we seem to do one or the other

and never both… Smart organization hasn’t exactly been the Mets battle cry the last few years.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 30, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Smart organization hasn’t exactly been the Mets battle cry the last few years since 1962, with the exception of 1984-1988

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Nov 2, 2009 12:36 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

just to clarify

finishing in last place 7 years in a row and winning the Seaver lottery counts as lucky, not smart. And I refuse to acknowledge anything Steve Phillips was involved in as smart, even if it did lead to the best two summers of my life

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Nov 2, 2009 12:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We certainly have a large enough payroll that we can try to plug 2-3 holes via free agency every season.

We just have to do a better job filling them, so we aren’t always trying to fill the same holes.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 30, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2 or 3 spots every year? C’mon. You mean like the Yankees did this past offseason? That’s 500 million dollars for 3 positions. Better to draft some of your own and sign a few guys around them.

by t agee on Nov 1, 2009 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

that's not exactly how you "plug" holes.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 1, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

1) Martinez, Davis, Thole, and Niese should all contribute some at the ML level this year,

and Evans and Parnell should see increased roles (if Jerry ever comes to his senses).

2) The “young players play harder, form culture and chemistry” argument is garbage. This has basically no impact on how well a team plays.

3) Matt Holliday is obviously worth big money and would help us immensely. There is no downside to signing him, as he would not be blocking any young players either (Fernando will take over RF from Francouer hopefully around June).

4) The Phillies had no young players (except for Happ) significantly contribute to this year’s (or even last year’s) team.

by johnmac7512 on Oct 30, 2009 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

1) Martinez, Davis,Thole and Niese COULD contribute this year but probably will not. Of the 4 only Niese is likely. Davis and Thole need work and Fernando to me really didn’t look good at all. I don’t know what to make of him except perhaps he had stage fright. 2) Culture and chemistry does have an impact on wins and losses. When most of your team are imported merceneries who are preoccupied with living up to the big contract (or angling for the next one) the priority isn’t winning. Of all the high priced free agents we have only one, Johan, who demands accountability and thats only 1 out of 5 days. It’s not in Beltran’s nature to do that but he’s an elite 2 way player at a premium defensive position. He can lead by example but the true leader of this team is Delgado who might as well be a DH for all he does in the field. If you don’t think that attitude hasn’t rubbed off and cost some games I strongly disagree. The message he sends is loud and clear 4 ab’s and out the door and the young guys fall in line.

by t agee on Nov 1, 2009 6:11 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe because Fernando was only 20 and was rushed at every level

he may not have been exactly ready to be in the majors last year. He’s still a top 20 prospect and even raised his status as he final showed the power he had. He was the best player in the IL last year, through his call up, under the age of 25 and he was 20, the youngest in the league.

77 yankees won with no chemistry, but they had talent. And what difference does it make if the right fielder and catcher want to kill each other off the field? In what way do they actually interact on the field that their feelings might get in the way of? Each players priority is to play the best they can, and that helps the team win. As you said Beltran is an elite player, if he had a different personality, he’d still be the same elite player and that would have no impact on the teams on field performance.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Nov 1, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Your right Fernado has been rushed. I don’t feel like he is any less a prospect now than last year I just was really underwhelmed by what I saw. (I don’t pretend to be a scout by any means) But he needs some time to develop. The 77 Yankees won with talent not chemistry. True. However other than Reggie they had no 1 dimensional players ( and his 1 dimension was pretty good) and many team oriented vets ( Chambliss, Nettles, White, Pinella, Dent, Munson, Randolph.) This team also played good D had a great bullpen and good starting pitching. I wasn’t so much referring to the players liking each other I am more referring to the type of rudderless leadership the Mets have had in the last few years. rewind to 1984 young pitchers, veteran first basemen who was into the game and played great D and expected everyone else to do the same. Compare and contrast to the last few years Young pitchers veteran first basemen who is not into the game, does not even attempt to play any D and certainly doesn’t expect anyone else to either. Is Castillo’s amazing loss of range injury or age related or is it because the guy next door doesn’t bust his ass? What is Jose to think when these two guys don’t bust their asses on defense? Wright too. his range has gone down as well as his accuracy. Anybody get on their case. I doubt it. That’s what I was trying to say about culture and chemistry. The Mets culture for along time has been to accept mediocrity and you can sign every free agent every year and that wont change until someone demands it and that someone probably wont be a guy who came here just for the biggest paycheck

by t agee on Nov 1, 2009 7:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure Reyes and Wright are adults and don't need to take

cues from older players. And who are you to say Delgado and Castillo don’t try on defense. Not good does not mean they don’t try. I’m sure they play as hard as they can when they’re on the field, just not capable of being any better. “Accept mediocrity,” really, JUST BECAUSE WE HAVEN’T WON DOESN’T MEAN THE METS HAVEN’T TRIED, PLAYED HARD, WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF, ETC ETC. WE JUST LOST. The culture/chemistry this is bullshit, we have no idea what goes on in the clubhouse most of the time so we can’t judge what we don’t know. This is an asinine argument that I’ve had ad nauseam, but as long as you have more talent than the other team, you are more likely win. I’m so sick of the culture/character/chemistry bullshit. Talent=wins, that’s all you need to know. And Holliday has talent.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Nov 1, 2009 7:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

no Evan

clearly the answer to our problem is to accept whoever will come here for the least amount of money. guys like eckstein, berroa (a past rookie of the year winner, no less!), and francouer are the keys to champtionships.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 1, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I saw Berroa at a Cyclones game

and then he was starting in the Majors a day later. Definitely a WTF? moment.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 2, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yup the Mets are a fine tuned machine

they go zero to stupid in no time at all!

by KeithsMoustache on Nov 2, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

3) Matt Holiday may be worth big money but he certainly isn’t worth more than 4 years. He’s 30 now hits most of his HR’s to LC CF and RC. That’s not good at Citi. He has only had TWO great years (both at Coors) and has gone from 36 to 25 to 24 HR’s I know Boris will pump him up but I’m not buying it. He’s a good player looking to break the bank. Pay him whatever you want but don’t expect 30 HR’s you’ll just be dissapointed. 4) The Phillies have numerous players they have brought up from the minors on their team right now to which they supplement with some free agents and trades and the production they are getting from their homegrown players is huge. Thats what I’m talking about.

by t agee on Nov 1, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Holliday also hits for a high verage and gets on base at a very high rate

You don’t have to hit 30 home runs a year to be a superstar. Holliday has been better than Teixeira over their respective careers and much better over the last four. Going forward I think they’ll be similar players in terms of WAR, and they’ll both be at an all star level for at least a few more years. I wouldn’t give Holliday Tex money, but I wouldn’t Tex Tex money either. I’d love Holliday for 5 years 80/90 and I’d go as high as 6/110.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Nov 1, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Yankess may outbid that.

I hope not, but they just might. Just keep in mind who the agent is.

by fxcarden on Nov 1, 2009 7:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Holiday is a good player. He gets on base has a good batting avg, drives in runs plays pretty good defense would definitly stretch our lineup. I like him as a player but he has frequently been mentioned as an answer to our lack of power and I dont feel he should be paid the way say that Ryan Howard will in a couple of years because his power is going to start to decline but I know Boris is going to find someone to pay him a fortune and I say let ’em. We would be better off with Pagan in left and Halliday on the mound in 2011.

by t agee on Nov 1, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

hoho, oh god.

you did not just say Ryan Howard is better than Matt Holliday
flame retardant suit up, my friend.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 1, 2009 7:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Holliday is much better than Howard.

Jesus, just because someone hits more home runs does not make him better. There is much more to the game than home runs, and Holliday does all of those better than Howard.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Nov 1, 2009 7:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Howard's better at striking out.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 1, 2009 7:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I did not say Howard is better than Holiday. I did not say that Howard is better than Holiday. What I am saying is Howard will get PAID more because he has more power and someone is going to pay for it. One of the reasons Holiday has been discussed so much by Mets fans is because of our lack of Home Runs. My point is Holiday is not going to deliver them over a 5 or 6 year deal. I would like to see us someday get the best years of a Roy Holiday rather than paying alot more for not as much. But if we’re going to sign another huge FA deal let it be Halliday in 2011. Again, just to be clear I never said Howard was better than Holliday

by t agee on Nov 1, 2009 8:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Alright first and foremost

Roy Halladay (31) – pitcher for Toronto Blue Jays
Matt Holliday (29) – left fielder for Colorado Rockies, Oakland Athletics, and St. Louis Cardinals

By the time 2011 comes around, Halladay will be 34 and well past his prime, hell, he’s probably past his prime now so lets not wait for him or trade a boatload of prospects either. Holliday is also probably past his prime, he’s not repeating 07, but he’s still a great player. The Mets have holes no doubt. But we have more help on the team for pitching rather than hitting. Niese should be good, Pelfrey will be improved with Reyes at short and Wright rebounding (hopefully anyway) from down year in the field (as well as with the bat). After Wright, Reyes and Beltran we have no offense. Castillo was good last year, but will he keep it up? Francoeur, Pagan, Murphy and Santos aren’t going to be of much help, so by signing Holliday we get probably 25 home runs and a ~.390 wOBA with average defense in left. That gives us four players with the potential to put up a superstar caliber season and all it costs is money and doesn’t block any prospects.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Nov 1, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry about mixing up the names

I just had my rotator cuff redone and probably shouldn’t have been pecking away on this site while not feeling any, ahem, discomfort. Hope no one holds my base running blunder against me. That being said MATT Holliday is a solid credible 2 way player who would benefit almost any team who got him. He happens to posses exactly what we lack at a position we have a great need. For how long? who knows. Four years plus large option with a small buyout at absolute most for me. He would be a huge upgrade at the cost of only a 2nd round pick . Hard to go wrong here but I do have some questions. Will he be pitched to in this lineup? With the two guys most likely to follow him ringing up 140 k’s apiece, perhaps, but real carefully and not at crunch time. (JWilpon loves Francouer) Will the Fans and Media appreciate his other skills if his HR’s aren’t as many as in the past or will they cause him to press? He’s a small town OK boy you know. Would his salary prevent us from addressing Starting Pitching? With the Wilpons tip toeing up to but never crossing the soft salary cap it might. I’f it’s an either or would we be better off waiting a year and having 2 aces followed by Pelfrey, Niese and Maine? I know ROY Halliday is 5 yrs older and I’m not saying it has to be him but power pitchers do seem to defy age better than position players. I’ll admit to a bias toward young 2 way postion players and a veteran power pitching staff but mostly I’d like to see us develop our own position players and stop always having to take the easy way out at the expense of the future. If we can get Matt and another ace thats great and lets get into the business of developing our own All-Stars for a change.

by t agee on Nov 2, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

you realize ROY HALLADAY in 2011 is 34?

So a long term for him then is riskier than signing MATT HOLLIDAY now at age 29?

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 1, 2009 9:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

to be fair

halladay just posted two 7+ WAR seasons in a row in ‘08-’09, two of his best seasons ever. he is probably still in his prime, but not in the conventional sense, meaning his physical prime. he’s just developed his stuff to the point that he’s incredibly dominant and who knows how long he will be able to continue at this same level.

you’re right, its definitely a risk to give a 34yr old a long-term deal but i feel that halladay is an exception to the rule as he is like no other pitcher in baseball. i would seriously consider giving him 5yrs next offseason.

by robcast23 on Nov 2, 2009 9:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i love ur ideas for the mets very good and you actually know what youre talking about the only difference id like to see is them finally buy out castillo we all know the wont because its basically omar admitting he fucked up big time but we should and than we could let murphy who is a natural second basemen play second with anderson hernandez every 3 or 4 days than we can have gonzo at first or we could platoon murphy and pagan at left and pick up hundson to play second who should have been a met last season but thats another post and the final thing is with the lineup from what ive seen pagan is a lil bit of a pre madonna and i see him causing problems with batting 7 let alone 9 he is going to want to bat second he might cause a problem

thats all i have to say feel free to rip me lol

by clucky on Oct 30, 2009 10:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

punctuation is your friend.

And HAHA with the Pagan “primadonna” thing. Way to go, slugger.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 31, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Pagan is more of a Post Madonna

Like Ray of Light Madonna, as opposed to Like A Virgin Madonna

by James Kannengieser on Nov 1, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he's mostly a fake British accent Madonna

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Nov 2, 2009 12:41 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A huge key to 2010 is what you predict from Ollie and Maine

Since we don’t have the resources to fix all problems, and an accurate guess as to what Ollie and Maine will do in 2010 would be worth a great deal, what does everyone think?

I’m going to guess Ollie can pitch well enough to fill the #5 hole. 25 starts with an ERA no worse than 6.00. As for Maine, I’m projecting 100 IP as a starter with an ERA around 4.5.

by SeanSchirmer on Oct 31, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That doesn't get you much past .500 as a team unless

Johan wins 20, Pelfrey wins 15 to 18, and whoever is #2 wins about 18 as well.

by fxcarden on Oct 31, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True,

but I’m just trying to get a handle on pitching needs for 2010. The back end of the rotation seems reasonably set if you think Ollie won’t entirely implode, Maine chips in half a season without disgracing himself, and between them Niese and Nieve and Figgy have a good shot at filling in around the edges of the last two slots in the rotation. Then, if Santana is still an ace, and Pelfrey has a solid, middle of the rotation season, it might make sense to take a flyer on a guy who, if healthy, will be better than Pelfrey. That might be a much better shot than overpaying for five years of Lackey’s decline while also leaving a good amount of money for position players.

For me it’s a matter of identifying the best places to gamble. I’m estimating we’ll need 92+ wins to have a 50-50 or better chance of making the playoffs. We can’t afford to plug all the holes and AFAICT it’ll be easier to find an affordable pitcher with an injury history and high upside than a position player with the same qualities.

by SeanSchirmer on Oct 31, 2009 9:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We win 92 games, we're in the playoffs

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 31, 2009 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

in this division, yes

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Nov 1, 2009 7:34 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We win 92 in 2009, we're in a playoff for the playoffs

and there look to be as many as 5 other teams in 2010 capable of winning 90.

by SeanSchirmer on Oct 31, 2009 9:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

haha, yeah, ok.

no NL wildcard team has won more than 92 games since 2002.
So I’d say it’s definitely better than “50-50 odds”.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 1, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dodgers, Rockies, Giants, Phillies, Cardinals, Braves and maybe the Cubs if they get their sh*t straight all have the chance of 90 wins. The NL won’t be a cupcake next year

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 1, 2009 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But if you actually win 92 games, you're almost guarenteed to be in.

It has only happened 6 times since 95 where it wasn’t enough.

2005: Indians won 93 (Red Sox/Yankees won 95)
2003: Mariners won 93 (Red Sox won 95)
2002: NL: Dodgers won 92 (Giants won 95, Diamondbacks won 98)
          AL: 1) Red Sox won 93 (Angels won 99, Athletics won 93)
          AL: 2) Mariners won 93 (Angels won 99, Athletics won 93)
1999: Reds won 96 (Mets won 97)

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Nov 1, 2009 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see the Dodgers or the Giants as winning 90+ games next season

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 2, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you think the Mets would be interesting in Derek Lowe?

Braves fan here, and the word is that we’re about to extend Tim Hudson, thus having 6 quality starting pitchers at our disposal (Vazquez, Hanson, Jurrjens, Hudson, Kawakami and Lowe). Would the Mets be interested?

I’ve seen multiple posters on the site saying you desire a front-line starter. DLowe isn’t an ace, but you already have Santana and would be a solid #2.

He’s owed $45MM over the next 3 seasons. He’s 36, but remember, he spent multiple years as a closer so his arm is still relatively fresh. He’s thrown 200 innings for the millionth time this past season as well.

With the bad contract, the Braves obviously aren’t expecting David Wright for him. But if the Mets would take on at least 80%+ of his contract, DLowe could definately be had for a decent prospect or two.

What do you guys (and gals?) think? Would the Mets be interested?

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Oct 31, 2009 10:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i forgot to add

that we wouldn’t really have much interest in Castillo. Martin Prado had a great 1st season as an everday starter (well, he took over for Kelly Johnson in May, but he played every day after that).

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Oct 31, 2009 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't think so...

Lowe’s most recent year was worrisome. I mean, his BB/9 wasn’t too bad, and his HR/9 was right in line with his career rate, but it would take some convincing that his BABIP jump to .330 wasn’t the result of bad pitching rather than bad luck. His K rate is down, and not compensated for by a reduction in his BB rate. His FB rate is increasing, too, not good for a pitcher of his type.

Lowe could rebound, of course, but if his K rate drops again like it did he’ll barely be a 5th starter, never mind a rotation anchor. If the Mets are going to spend anything like $15 mil per, they’d be far better off gambling on Lackey. Lackey is at least very likely to be good for the next 2-3 years (when the core is still together), even if for only 25-27 starts each year. You can’t say the same about Lowe.

by SeanSchirmer on Nov 1, 2009 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, we shouldn't be looking to acquire Lowe.

His peripherals weren’t too good this season, and I’m worried he may be hitting the wall much sooner than expected. Also, if he’s thrown 200 innings so many times, his arm isn’t really that fresh, is it? And Lowe probably makes too much money for us to take on as a salary dump, unless we address all of our other holes via trade.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 1, 2009 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

would you trade us Kawakami?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Nov 1, 2009 7:01 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, i would sure think so

Im glad someone is taking notice of his solid pitching this season. he struggled his 1st month, but was very good after that. he was actually better than DLowe in 2009. no one notices tho b/c the dumbass “experts” on ESPN only look at wins and ERA.

"Are you tryin to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?"

by mvhsbball on Nov 1, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The 2011 free agent pitching crop

may be significantly weaker then what was mentioned above. Lee and Beckett will get extended. Halladay could be involved in a trade a sign like Santana and the D-backs would be stupid to let Webb go. They could trade him to a team that will extend him if they look putrid next year. Only Vasquez may be available from that class as a freeagent.

by Delgado on Nov 3, 2009 4:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

i disagree

look at it from the pitchers perspectives, most of them have as much value now as they’ve ever had. at this point the top tier players in the league are foregoing extensions and testing FA because they know they’ll make more. the exception is the homegrown player but with only a year remaining for all of them i think it’s probably too late for that, they can smell these contracts on the horizon and aftter what CC and burnett just got and what llackey is sure to get i doubt anyone will be able to resist.

just last night cliff lee’s agent was on the radio and he mentioned the idea that 2011 will be lee’s first and at his age really only shot for a real big contract so they’re definitely going to keep that option open unless the phillies really bowl them over.

i bet at least 3 of these guys hit the market.

by robcast23 on Nov 4, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

indeed

that’ll tell us a great deal about next year’s high end pitching market

by robcast23 on Nov 4, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping he gets

a little bit better then what Lowe got as opposed to what C.C. got.

by Delgado on Nov 6, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

according to john heyman

lackey figures to make around $100M. way more than lowe, not close to CC. he’s more on the level of burnett, salary-wise and it looks like he’ll probably top AJ’s 5yr/$82.5M deal. like i’ve said before, NO WAY do i even consider that.

by robcast23 on Nov 6, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

20 mil a year is too much. Sheets and Bedard with Kelvim Escobar in the bullpen should cost less then that and be more effective. I want no part of Harden because he cannot pitch deep into games. If those guys stay healthy and return to previous production then that could be the best rotation in baseball.

by Delgado on Nov 6, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

agreed

i used harden in my plan but he and sheets are interchangeable for me, especially w/ bedard behind them.

did you notice that philly has alredy begun to hesitate about extending lee? w/ both utley and howard due for big pay jumps and hamels close behind, they probably can’t afford him

like i said, i’ll be surprised if even 2 guys from that 2010 pitching list get locked up before FA.

by robcast23 on Nov 6, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

After I saw that

I changed my mind because if Lee and Webb are out there both of them would be attractive freeagents.

What do you think about bringing in Smoltz or Mulder also. Realistically we should be able to sign all those pitchers for under 20 mil a year

by Delgado on Nov 6, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder: DO NOT WANT

I would take a flyer on Smoltz though, as an emergency/depth type of guy. Not sure if he’d be willing to take that, though.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Nov 6, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

smoltz

i’d be interested in smoltz on a pedro/clemens type of plan, where he comes in midway through the season if he can’t get a contract he’s happy w/ this winter.

but cj is right about mulder, if you’ve kept up at all w/ his rehab(s), his arm is gone, he has literally nothing left.

by robcast23 on Nov 6, 2009 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking about Smoltz

I actually don’t think he’s a terrible idea at all. Bring him in and put him head to head against Maine for the last rotation spot, dump the loser in the bullpen. He’s said he’s willing to pitch in relief.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 12, 2009 12:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you going to make this your AAOP?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Nov 11, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

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