Francoeur

" Since joining the Mets in July, Francoeur has hit .313 with 10 home runs and 41 RBI in 74 games. " So....had he played the other 88 games as a Met, he would have 20 HRs and 85 RBIs ?. Or, would he have had surgery ?. Thoughts ?.

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Francouer Avenue!!!

Amiright?

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 3, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Just wanted to know what day of the week the surgery would have been.

by fxcarden on Oct 3, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Surgery???

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 3, 2009 12:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He’s played well with the Mets and I give him credit. In about half a season he’s probably been a 1 WAR performer, far exceeding my expectations. Instead of extrapolating those other 88 games that he may have played with the Mets we can just look at his season in its entirety between the Braves and Mets.

by James Kannengieser on Oct 3, 2009 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not Quite 1 WAR

He’s been .3 WAR since he’s been with the Mets. His -9 UZR is really killing him. I know its not accurate for half season numbers, but he’s still not been that good.

IF he were a neutral defensive player (0 UZR) he’d be just over 1 WAR with the Mets.

Having said all that, his LD% has been great (23.4) which I don’t know to be sustainable.

by Balagast on Oct 3, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Citifield OF UZR's need to be taken with a grain of salt...espescially RF

There just isn’t enough data, and RF is really different than shea.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 3, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's not really a Citifield issue

it’s a sample size issue

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Oct 3, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which is exactly what I said in that comment.

“There just isn’t enough data” should indicate that I feel it’s a small sample size.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 3, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It sounds like you were saying it was a sample size issue related to Citi Field.

whatever

King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president

by Sam Page on Oct 3, 2009 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No data

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 4, 2009 8:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No data yet

and it’s different. At least a place like yankee stadium has the same dimensions as the old stadium, so you could reasonably predict how the park will play on balls in play. It will be several seasons before Citi produces enough data to produce an accurate park factor. RF there may produce some odd numbers as center in houston and left in fenway do because of the odd angles.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 4, 2009 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yankee Stadium doesn't have the same dimensions

It’s a decent size smaller. Where the measurements are, are the same as in the old stadium, but the walls are closer at a lot of other points.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 4, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yankee stadium is a lot closer to the new one is shape/size than Shea was to Citi, which is the point trying to be made.

by Balagast on Oct 4, 2009 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not debating that

just saying, a lot of people see that center and down the lines are the same number as the old and don’t realize that the rest of the stadium is smaller

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Oct 4, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't realize that...I just quickly looked at the dimensions.

I cant stomach the yankees enough to actually watch them, and I really cant deal with the fans who write on most of their blogs (or for the newspapers).

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 4, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

+/-, a similar defensive measurement system

has him as a plus defender this year, in fact +8. UZR says -7.8. Considering that the 2 systems have evaluated him quite similarly over the years (almost identical actually), and factoring what others said above this comment, I gave him the benefit on defense.

by James Kannengieser on Oct 3, 2009 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He has -0.2 WAR this season

That is not good. He had -1.3 WAR last season. That is not good.

by EtSuKe on Oct 3, 2009 5:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Eh

I am now ambivalent about Frenchy. I hated the trade, but in spite of his meh numbers, he’s grown on me. He’s like a remedial kid who you just want to pat on the head because he’s happy with his toy hammer or whatever. All told, I’m happy with him starting next year in RF only to one day be forced out by F!, as long as he doesn’t cost more than about $3m/year.

by deadspy3 on Oct 3, 2009 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

This is sort of where I sit

Although I think it’s just more of me coming to terms with the fact that dude is gonna be starting in RF next year no matter what else happens. All we can hope for at this point, I’d imagine, is that Omar doesn’t feel inclined to give him an absurd contract extension.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 3, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's exactly how I feel.

Frenchy will be a part of the opening day lineup plan along with Castillo, Wright, Beltran, and Reyes. No reason to have a aneurysm over it.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 3, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I am resigned to this also

he’s not the worst guy who’s ever played for the Mets and it looks like he has fun out there…

"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?"

by hotspur on Oct 3, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, this is where I disagree.

I don’t mind keeping Francouer as a bench player. All things equal, though, I would much prefer Angel Pagan, who in about half a season’s worth of PAs has been 2.0 WAR. Just let them battle it out for RF, with (hopefully) a new, shiny left fielder to carry some of the load. Hopefully, someone like Martinez can take over during the season.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 3, 2009 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Platoon?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Oct 3, 2009 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure.

Pagan vs. righties, Francouer vs. lefties. That’s a pretty serviceable combo.
(then again, if it was up to me, I might like to see Evans as the right handed part of that platoon)

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 4, 2009 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think the majority of us WANT him to start,

we’re just accepting the sad reality that he probably will, regardless of how little logic is actually behind the move.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Schmidtxc on Oct 4, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Pagan>Francoeur

Just because Frenchy is probably going to be starting next year means we have to accept it.

by EtSuKe on Oct 4, 2009 12:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

I’m very very cautious about the idea of Pagan starting. He is a very good hitter, but he makes a lot of bad judgement calls on the bases and in the field. If they can work on his fundamental understanding of the game, he’d be a good starting OF, but if i had to choose which player would be less likely to hurt us I think it would be Frenchy.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 5, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

unless by "hurt us" you mean by contributing a negative WAR

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 5, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think expanded out over a full season, pagan would cost us more games than frenchy would

WAR takes UZR into account, and the UZR numbers at Citi are skewed due to the lack of stadium data. It also doesn’t account for non-error mistakes, like throwing to the wrong base, missing the cutoff man, taking a poor angle to cut off a ball, and i’m not sure if it takes baserunning mistakes into account as well. Pagan is far more prone to these sorts of mistakes than francouer. I’m not saying that francoeur is the solution to our problems and pagan is terrible, but i’d rather see neither, with a slight preference for francoeur if i had to choose.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 5, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus, Pagan has no connection to France.

by fxcarden on Oct 5, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or Delta Airlines

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 5, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or Les Expos

by JoshNY on Oct 6, 2009 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

But Pagan never really "cost us a game".

He made some mistakes, sure. But he also produced offensively decidedly more than Francouer, who if he was in that position may not have made the mistake, but maybe it wouldn’t have mattered because we’d be losing anyway. So I think over a long season, you have to pick the BETTER PLAYER.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Oct 5, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wont argue that offensively pagan seems to be the better option

I just have some legitimate concerns about his lack of proper decision making, his injury profile, his sudden surge in power this year which he hasn’t shown an ability to maintain over seasons, and i tend to think his CF defensive stats are skewed a bit because the Mets frequently played their left fielder in left center to help cover center field while he was there. This will not directly affect him if he moves to left, but its an indicator that he might not be able to cover as much ground as we give him credit for.

by KeithsMoustache on Oct 5, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Pagan is injured

you would still have Francoeur. Pagan’s career wOBA is .335. His career UZR/150 is 4.1 (in all OF positions). Pagan is better in measuarble things. It is hard to judge someone on things that are hard to judge, such as cutting off balls, baserunning, missing the cut-off. We often have selective, biased memory.

by EtSuKe on Oct 5, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs