Take Me Back To April
by James Kannengieser on Oct 4, 2009 5:00 AM EDT
45 comments
Right before the season, I made a post titled "What Are You Looking Forward To This Season?" I came across it recently and some of our answers are painful to read now. A sample:
- Nick Evans and Danny Murphy becoming a one-two punch like Dykstra and Backman used to be
- Watching David Wright win MVP
- Watching Jose put it all together and becoming the best SS in the league.
- Watching Pelfrey and Maine pitch great behind Johan this year
- A bullpen that can hold leads
- One word: Champtions
- Daniel Murphy bitch-slapping my disbelief that he shouldnt be the starting LF
At the same time, there were a few comments which worked out. Unfortunately most had to do with Citi Field:
- The food at New Shea to blow away every other ballpark’s, be it in taste or price
- Drinking good beer at Citi Field, instead of the swill that they've served upstairs at Shea from time immemorial
- The atlanta braves falling into an open volcano (note: Braves had a decent year but didn't make the playoffs, so to the volcano it is)
- A huge bounce back year from castillo
It's been a tough season, hopefully made more enjoyable by reading/participating at Amazin' Avenue. Keep the faith in 2010.
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"Watching Pelfrey and Maine pitch great behind Johan this year"
Ha! Notta chance! Wouldn’t that be a bad thing, if anything!? Seriously, who suggested that? That person deserves to be slapped in the face by an angry flock of salmon.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 4, 2009 5:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Disregard the last post please!
Disregard what I said! I misread that as saying “Watching Pelfrey and Maine pitch great beyond Johan this year”. I thought it said BEYOND JOHAN! I have the disability of reading one word as another. I would take back that last comment…
The thing about the angry flock of salmon should be reserved for that one other guy who suggested that Oliver Perez be the staff ace.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 4, 2009 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya know
After last september I like most of the MSM had high hopes for Murphy. I bought into the hype and thought he’d give us a solid borderline everyday/platoon player, similar to Diaz A 300/375/450 vs. LHP and a 280/340/380 vs RHP. Alas i was dead ass wrong, and the MSM is still dead ass wrong if they think he has picked up the pace since august. He is slugging better but his OBP is putrid which his the whole reason I loved him in the first place. True example of small sample size
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 4, 2009 9:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In additon to said small sample size,
his baBIP last year was about .380 or so. That is unsustainable for ANY baseball player NOT named Ty Cobb. Read about that one over here (You’ll also realize how much Derek Jeter deserves to be one of the most highly voted first ballot HOFers EVER. On the same token, you also have to feel some sympathy towards Gorman Thomas.)
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 4, 2009 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the same token, you also have to feel some sympathy towards Gorman Thomas.
I actually meant Graig Nettles, judging by the order of that list, but whatever. It’s also a mystery how one of baseball’s worst baBIP offenders became one of baseball’s greatest pitching coaches – now that one brings about some obvious conclusions.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 4, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Really....
… a mystery concerning Dave Duncan, if you think about it. Duncan was a smart catcher who had some power, a good handler of pitchers, from what I have read about him. You don’t last 11 years in the majors without being good at something, I would think. Duncan is an intelligent baseball man, obviously. The hitting didn’t seem to get in the way of his defensive duties.
And Nettles did alright for himself in his career. My goodness what a great defensive player he was, and he had good power, especially in the old Yankee Stadium, where it was less than 320 feet down the right-field line, I believe.
Defense and intelligence seem to go hand-in-hand. That’s how you last over ten years in the majors without being a great hitter.
"We praise or blame as one or the other affords more opportunity for exhibiting our power of judgment." Friedrich Nietzsche, "Human,All Too Human" (1878)
by wgarrett on Oct 4, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree (Nettles was spectacuar at 3B!)
Though I figured that Dave Duncan could have used his experiences as a low baBIP hitter to learn how to get pitchers to get batters to hit the ball a certain way. But what you said makes more sense. I was merely jumping to conclusions, but I wasn’t really assuming them as true. Just skeptical.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 5, 2009 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why does BABIP make Jeter deserve to be one of the highest voted Hall of Famers ever?
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Oct 4, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I didn’t get that one either. And SJ if somebody is posting on here, believe me we know about murph’s babip from last september.
by MetsKnicksRutgers on Oct 4, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 3rd highest career baBIP
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 4, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
means that the player is also bound to have one of the highest batting averages and knows exactly how to hit the baseball. This demonstrates absolute mastery in taking the at-bat approach and in hitting the ball precisely at the right angle, right location and right speed that is conducive to base hits. Players of this mold tend to have a better eye at the plate and better swing approach than anybody else – their OBP and AVG make them at the very least, the perfectly ideal no. 2 hitter. If you look down the list of baBIP leaders, all of them have hall of fame attributes. The pattern is too compelling to ignore. (Shoeless Joe Jackson is up there, but not in the HOF – I’m sure you know why.)
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 4, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bobby Abreu has a career BABIP of .352
11th all-time for all players with at least 5000 PAs, and only .010 behind Jeter. Hall of Famer?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 4, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Bobby Abreu debate: If he plays 3-5 more years,
he looks like a sure candidate. However, he struck out too much to make enough of a name for himself, as baBIP takes account the balls in play only. BUT, I still vouch for the fact that he had a good eye and is naturally one of the best hitters as far as OBP (49th all-time) and runs created (74th in adjusted batting runs) are concerned. He also has awesome power-speed numbers! (22nd all-time!)
I have seen legitimate debates over Bobby Abreu’s hall of fame credentials. He does pass the hall of fame standards test! He is also just barely short of the median hall of fame monitor rating, as well. I think he will make it, at least by 2030. His stats aren’t intimidating, but he possesses a solid set of peripherals that can make a winning team. He is, skill-wise, a hall of famer. Just not the high-end or even the middling type.
Also, Bobby Abreu is one of 21 players in the 250-250 club, so his power-speed # has got to be up there! (He ranks 22nd all-time!)
(http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/power_speed_number_career.shtml)
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 5, 2009 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read this article on the link below:
http://www.baseballindepth.com/2009/07/bobby-abreu-hall-of-famer.html
The MAIN reasons Abreu was never really in anybody’s hall of fame radar are because (1) he never had a standout season in any particular year (meaning no MVP award considerations and never leading in any of the triple crown categories), though his consistent production shows perseverance, consistency, reliability and enduring skill, and hall of fame acceptable career numbers, and (2) his chances were hurt tremendously as he was hurt seriously in an era where steroids/PED use was heavily prevalent, so his numbers were always overshadowed by the Barry Bondses, Mark McGwires, Sammy Sosa and Aex Roidriguezes of the day – assuming he never used PEDs, he MUST be considered!
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 5, 2009 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excerpt from the article:
Can Abreu make it into the Hall of Fame?
I wouldn’t have thought so before, but they are very impressive numbers. Generally, steady production across many offensive categories will not be enough. The voters want to be blown away and see MVP awards, and that’s not him. The way things are going, though, there might not be too many decent options left when he comes up years from now.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 5, 2009 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you agree, then
that his historically high BABIP alone is not a reason for him to make it to Cooperstown? That’s really the only point I’m trying to make here.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 5, 2009 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I see
While correlation is not always causation (this would apply to everyday mundane situations), I found a case in which all the players listed as baBIP leaders had hall of fame stuff, so the correlation-causation relationship was too strong to ignore. I knew about Abreu being up there, and still, I felt that there was something about him that makes him HOF-worthy. I also remembered reading a HOF debate on him 3 months ago (I forget where). Not only is it highly unlikely that any of those players up there are not hall of fame material (not that Joe Jackson should be included), but also, if Jeter is 3rd all-time in baBIP and has as many PAs as he does, it becomes virtually impossible in the realm of baseball to find any reason to not include him in the HOF. And besides, it’s obvious from the very beginning that he is clearly HOF material, with or without the baBIP fact about him.
The trend would suggest that players with much higher than normal baBIP somehow figure out a way to hit line drives, make contact, and hit the ball at a certain trajectory and magnitude with robotic consistency (given the 3000 PA minimum). Even though some players who might end up there could strike out quite a bit (like Abreu), that does not diminish the fact that they are far superior to everyone else to making the most out of their plate appearances. I didn’t check, but I have a hunch that almost every player in the baBIP leaderboard given is also in the top 100 in all-time OBP. And if even a moderately high strikeout rate can get you up there, you have accomplished something only the minute few in number could throughout the course of MLB history.
I would like to add: The baBIP leaderboard should only seek to include, NOT exclude, players into HOF consideration. Hank Aaron has a career .291 baBIP, and there’s no good argument anywhere that says he shouldn’t be a hall of famer, more or less a top 20 hall of famer.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 5, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why I'm an eternal pessimist
At least when it comes to sports.
by Reg Dunlop on Oct 4, 2009 9:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"A Ben’s half-smoke or three while watching the Mets paste the Nats in DC"
I did manage to have a half-smoke but the Mets went 1-2 in the games I saw in DC this year. Good times!
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 4, 2009 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I went to all three games in DC
so I was 0-3 there, but I did have a Ben’s Half Smoke All the Way, twice. Huzzah!
by deadspy3 on Oct 5, 2009 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you went like 2 for 10 or something like that.
Which fits right in with the Mets.
For me, as soon as they chose Ollie over Lowe, I knew this season had fail written all over it, and when Murphy dropped the pop-up vs. the Marlins (the Johan game), I knew we were toast.
by fxcarden on Oct 4, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"It's been a tough season, hopefully made more enjoyable by reading/participating at Amazin' Avenue."
That is so true. Despite the losses, at least I had some fun in the game threads. And this year was very rich in terms of new AA memes (*cough*update AA memes list please? * cough*).
by Michkin on Oct 4, 2009 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Will be done soon
Right after today’s game featuring Jeremy Reed in the starting lineup!
by James Kannengieser on Oct 4, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
make sure not to forget Sir Dr. Sen. Brain SOCKS! D.D.S.R.S.V.P.
"Solo homers usually come with no one on base." -Ralph Kiner
by metsguy234 on Oct 4, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm....
Aside from “has lobby”, which never gets old, I could do without the plethora of “memes”.
by Mex_17 on Oct 4, 2009 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey look, it's one of our memes!
Mr. Francoeur Avenue!
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Oct 4, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's something else
(or someone else?) I think we could all do without as well. It’s slipping my mind right now.
by James Kannengieser on Oct 4, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The great ombudsman has blessed us with his presence.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 4, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is the site ombudsman a meme now as well?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 4, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's getting there, I would think
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Oct 4, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to be an optimist for a second
In 2004 and 2006, the LA Dodgers made the playoffs. In 2005, they suffered through an injury-riddled 71-91 season.
In 2007 and 2009, the Colorado Rockies made the playoffs. In 2008, they suffered through an injury riddled 74-88 season.
I’m not saying that the Mets will rebound so well in 2010, but they pretty much have to bounce back significantly if they stay healthy. Whether it’s enough for a playoff run depends on the moves this offseason.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Oct 4, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
aye there's the rub
King of the bling come to lay down the evidence//Not George Bush, L-Millz be da president
by Sam Page on Oct 4, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post James, especially the end
…and don’t forget…as always, let’s got Mets…
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
by All Shook Down on Oct 4, 2009 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Er, *go
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
by All Shook Down on Oct 4, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tuuu Timp?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Oct 4, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
"Tuuu Timp, Finnish baseball legend"
So there is the reason I became a Mets fan, even that I didn’t know that at the time. Glad I finally found out…
Sesmus from Finland, of course!
by Sesmus on Oct 5, 2009 5:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah yes, herra Tuuu Timp
The Hitman of Helsinki, of course! A short, but sweet stint as a Met. Strong and fast as hell, but a career that fin n ished too soon… (No, he’s still alive)
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
by sj10689 on Oct 5, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, at least the beer doesn’t suck. Not cheap, but it doesn’t suck.
Official ledge-talker-offer of the Buffalo Bills.
by WhyBillsWhy on Oct 7, 2009 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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