Berg: Character Guys Like Alex Cora
Regular Amazin' Avenue readers also probably read Ted Berg's newish blog Tedquarters, but if not you should. In the linked post, he discusses Alex Cora and the concept of having "character guys" in the clubhouse. It should be required reading for all Met fans.
The Cora contract situation is more interesting to me than the nonsensical trade and free agent rumors floating around right now. If he is brought back for $2 million I think we can officially say there is no hope for this front office.
10 days ago
James Kannengieser
72 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Ted Berg read my mind.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 10, 2009 4:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brilliant article
Cora seems like a nice guy, but we should be resigning him based on his baseball talent, which he has very little of at this point.
I do love the fact that after Ted posts this article, the first comment is by someone clamoring for Eckstein, saying he is a “character guy” and “proven winner”. You have to love the reading comprehension of some Mets bloggers.
by Syler on Nov 10, 2009 4:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
hmm
I’m not sure that’s necessarily the commenter’s point – to me that comment seemed to be saying that if what the Mets really wanted was a “character guy” and a “proven winner” then they could’ve paid a lot less for it
by JoshNY on Nov 11, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought that too
until I read that he felt that we would have gotten Eckstein if we had offered him the same as Cora. Which completely defeats the purpose.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Nov 11, 2009 12:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly...
When your best attribute is something that Pedro’s late, great midget (RIP Nelson) can bring to the table, it’s time to hang them up.
by Bieser's Balk on Nov 10, 2009 4:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
You still had hope for this front office?
by Reg Dunlop on Nov 10, 2009 5:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Amazing, lets sit and stress over Alex Cora and $2 million dollars of someone else’s money – what’s next, Mike Cameron is better than Matt Holliday – oh wait…..
by MikeSilvaNYBD on Nov 10, 2009 6:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I could live with Mike Cameron in LF next year ...
… plus, he’s a “character guy.” : ))))
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Nov 10, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not stressing
It’s expressing our “opinion” that giving Alex Cora $2 million would be an incredibly stupid idea
by Syler on Nov 10, 2009 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
its not the 2 million
its the mentality the front office takes in spending two million on a guy who isn’t worth more than league minimum talent wise.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 10, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
also where did the cammy/holliday comment come from?
i see no such comments here, although if we can’t land Holliday, cameron isn’t a bad option.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 10, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Silva is the king of the straw man argument
This is nothing new. He comes here only to troll and apparently doesn’t know how to use the “reply” function.
by James Kannengieser on Nov 10, 2009 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really not get it?
It’s the same reason we were all bitching about the Francoeur-Church and Castro trades. I mean those were only about a backup catcher and a so-so right fielder. But they reveal a front office process that is completely inept and so would re-signing Cora for the same amount as last year.
by dtro on Nov 10, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Jesus Christ, man.
NO ONE said Cameron is better than Holliday. If you mean Cameron’s better than Bay, then yes- that’s nicely covered here. And if those $2 mil a year are the difference between us and Holliday, yes, it’s worth stressing over.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Nov 10, 2009 6:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's the kind of thinking, too,
that gave ABs to Julio Franco in 2007, a season that showed exactly how much the small things can matter. In 2009 the Mets were still doing their best to set up a third consecutive season where the little things could have killed them, giving 2.25 million to Tim Redding, 2 million to Livan Hernandez, 2 million to Alex Cora, iirc still paying off Scott Schoenweiss’ contract, and so on, when a solid end of the rotation starter was available for only the price of his salary in Jason Marquis, a price that seemed high only because… we were pissing away that money on foolishness like the above.
by SeanSchirmer on Nov 11, 2009 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you won't give up on Marquis, will you?
But I do agree with your comment
and some others you forgot:
Jose Valentin, Marlon Anderson, Moises Alou in 2008
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 11, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"a solid end of the rotation starter"
is also known as “not a very good starter”. Sam wrote a great post a few weeks ago about the silliness of assigning arbitrary numbers to starting pitchers based on where they fit into a rotation, you should give it a read.
by JoshNY on Nov 11, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing!
Yea guys let’s stress over our favorite baseball squad paying a significant portion of their payroll to horrible players that drag down the entire team with their awful performance… It’s not our money and it’s not like these horrible minor league retreads who should retire already are preventing the best core of homegrown superstars since Jeter/Posada from making the playoffs every years. No guys, we haven’t made those two great players suffer enough lectures from a player way below their skill level. Another $2 million for Cora and the 7th overall pick in the draft walks because we wouldn’t pay him $1.5M!
by Sam Page on Nov 10, 2009 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Amazing, lets sit and stress over someone else expressing an opinion on Alex Cora on their own blog which you’re not forced to read.
by Mount17 on Nov 10, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
congrats, you totally failed
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 11, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did anyone see Castro’s numbers with Chicago? I understand they overestimated Santos, but honestly what was Castro going to do?
It’s not about Cora, it’s about the focus. Yankees fans talk about obtaining stars and winning baseball, Mets fans argue about petty and insignificant issues. Honestly Mets fans disappoint me more each and every day.
by MikeSilvaNYBD on Nov 10, 2009 6:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It's ok.
You’ve disappointed us for a while now.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Nov 10, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
by All Shook Down on Nov 10, 2009 7:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
What were Adam LaRoche's numbers with the Mets this year? Oh wait..
by Syler on Nov 10, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
how can we obtain stars
when we throw bad money at crappy players? If we cant even do the little things right, we’re sure as hell not gonna get the big ones right.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 10, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not like we've had 3 of the best 20 position players in baseball for the past 4 years or anything.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Nov 10, 2009 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah and what have we done with that?
surrounded them with crappy support and squandered most of their contract years, by signing players who werent worth their contracts.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 10, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what are these stars you speak of ?.
by fxcarden on Nov 10, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you know Omir Santos, Alex Cora, Jeff Francouer
The gritty heroes this team needs to succeed.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 10, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice One
DO WHAT JOSE REYES DO!!!
by Jadden Hopkins on Nov 10, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This isn't worthy of a response, but here goes...
How silly of Mets fans to talk about things beyond “Sign Holliday! Trade for Halladay! Joe Mauer for Melky Cabrera!”
If I had known my focus on stars would make the Mets more likely to obtain them, I would have been thinking about Albert Pujols this whole time. Thanks for the heads up.
And if I’m supposed to be upset that you don’t think I’m like the morons who ripped A-Rod for not being a “true Yankee,” you my friend are beyond help.
by Bieser's Balk on Nov 10, 2009 6:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Last time he came here, I at least thought he initially tried to contribute to the discussion at large.
This is just trolling, plain and simple.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Nov 10, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anonymous sources tell me he's being a tool
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 10, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my anonymous sources would kick your anonymous sources' ass.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Nov 10, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I have an anonymous scout who just told me
That Mike Silva sucks at sources
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 11, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well Mike
maybe you should go hang out with Yankees fans. They might make you feel smart, like watching the Jeopardy Teen Tournament.
by dtro on Nov 10, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Silva can still get his champtions gear
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 11, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to troll, but honestly I think you guys give Yankee fans a bad rap, but really have to look from the outside (like I am) and start to listen to yourselves.
I am a diehard Mets fan, probably have watched the team longer than some of you have been alive. I am tired of the second rate mentality.
No one is a bigger fan then me. This is not a shot at you guys, rather how Mets fans make it easy for this organization to shoot for a low bar (i.e. rationalizing Mike Cameron instead of demanding top talent)
Next time you buy your tickets ask yourself this question – are the Mets charging second rate prices? That might be the only thing that smartens some people up.
I want stars, not excuses. Yankees fans understand how to win, not sure if Mets fans can say the same.
by MikeSilvaNYBD on Nov 10, 2009 6:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This organization is cheap as shit
so $2 million for a piece of crap like Cora may prevent us from going over-slot, or getting someone like Bay, Lackey, or Holliday.
by Syler on Nov 10, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Syler, if $2 million is preventing this team from paying over slot or signing one of the big 3 then it’s time to pack up and go home
Hear what you’re saying, but if the Mets say that then quite simply they are lying, or in over their head.
by MikeSilvaNYBD on Nov 10, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It already is preventing those things.
That’s why we’re frustrated.
by dtro on Nov 10, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets did just
send Billy Wagner to the Red Sox to avoid paying his salary, thereby turning down the chance to get a couple of high draft picks.
by Mount17 on Nov 10, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No I am a bigger Mets fan than you
I tattooed Doc Gooden’s face across my entire back. Your move.
P.S. Mike Cameron is top talent, prove me wrong.
by Sam Page on Nov 10, 2009 6:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I had a mole surgically IMPLANTED next to my right ear
in solidarity with Voltron.
by dtro on Nov 10, 2009 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please
I tattooed Doc Gooden’s face across my entire face
by Bieser's Balk on Nov 10, 2009 6:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This sounds like the dialogue from Down Periscope
Adm. Winslow: What do you think, Mr. Dodge?
Cmdr. Dodge: I think I’m gonna get my ass kicked, sir.
Adm. Winslow: Aw, don’t think like that! Damn it to hell, don’t go by the book! Think like a pirate! I want a man with a tattoo on his dick! Have I got the right man?
Cmdr. Dodge: By a strange coincidence, you do, sir.
by fxcarden on Nov 10, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no i am a bigger mets fan
and i just ate 2 burger king double cheeseburgers so i am getting bigger all the time.
they were only a dollar each. great deal.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
by kendynamo on Nov 10, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
The Yankees went with the buying every top FA star availible from 2000 +/- until the present and that sure worked out well for them.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 10, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The day Mets fans have the mentality of Yankees fans is the day I find a new team to support.
And of course yankees fans understand how to win, the secret is take the payroll of the second highest paid team and then add the payroll of the Oakland A’s to that. If I thought the Mets could spend that kind of money i’d care a little less about this sort of thing, but I’d still be angry at their apparent lack of understanding how the game of baseball works. We have a finite payroll and every dollar we waste on a worthless player is one we can’t spend in a position we need. With holes in SP, 2b, C, 1b, and OF, can we afford to be burning money on replacements who are worse than the generic players already available for league minimum?
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 10, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
how the fuck does a Yankee fan know how to win?
last time i checked, Joe from Bayside didn’t sign Mark Teixiera and CC Sabathia to mega million dollar contracts.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Nov 10, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe he didn't mean the fans know how to win at baseball
maybe he meant at douche-offs, in which case I see his point, and agree wholeheartedly.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 10, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So we're not greedy Pricks who have to have every single star on the market
and that makes us bad fans? Ideally I think everyone here want Holliday in left field next year, but it’s okay to think backup plan. Cameron is a fine player and would be a suitable second option, that’s all anyone is saying.
And I don’t think the Mets can afford to spend like the Yankees, we know that, we’re okay with it, there are other ways to build a team and iit starts with smart little moves like not signing Cora for 2 million when you can get an equal or better for $400,000.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Nov 10, 2009 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not being greedy pricks makes us better fans.
Because we know that, realistically, our organization can’t throw around money arbitrarily to attract whoever is available, we “look harder” to find the best fits for each situation, causing us to understand situational stats and whatnot.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 10, 2009 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or, if you're our GM
you overpay for crappy players and then complain that you don’t have a big enough budget to sign players that would really help
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Nov 10, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Imagine what kind of a team we would have been fielding in the past couple of years if we weren't in NY, and didn't have a large budget.
Those are pretty much Omar’s key points when building this team…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 10, 2009 10:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not even the almighty Yankees have a roster of 25 stars
Robby Cano is debatable. Brett Gardner (not a star). Melky Cabrera (not a star). Eric Hinske (not a star). Damaso Marte (not a star). I could keep going, but I think you get the drift.
The Mets HAVE stars. What they don’t have are competent players surrounding those stars. I’d love it if they could get Pujols for first, Utley for second, Holliday and Sizemore for the outfield, and Mauer to catch. But they can’t. What they can do is try to fill out the best 25 man team available to them. Matt Holiday would be a big piece, but not the only piece – a better utility infielder would help too. And, at the very least, they can find someone to do the exact same thing as Alex Cora would do for $2 million cheaper, and use that $2 million to add onto a contract for a star.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
by cjmulrain on Nov 10, 2009 10:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Even if we got those guys
We’d still have that stupid, lazy, loser at shortstop, clutch september fail at third and, mr. strike out looking in center.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Nov 10, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Please don't mention that strikeout
I was there and still have nightmares. Train was dead quiet, friggin spooky.
by shwebsi on Nov 10, 2009 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That fucking curveball
(That was a nasty pitch!)
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
by The Glider on Nov 10, 2009 11:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you gotta give Wainwright credit, it was as perfect as perfect could be...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 11, 2009 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry, but you can't prove your the Number One fan
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 11, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just because Alex Cora is a character
doesn’t mean he has the necessary characteristics to play in the major leagues.
by keepcoolbutcare on Nov 11, 2009 3:19 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
The "little" things that add up
Alex Cora 2M
Tim Redding $2.25M
Livan Hernandez $1M + performance bonus (+-.5M)
Marlon Anderson 2 yr/$2.2M (08-09)
JJ Putz (6M) trade
Broadway trade
Jeff Francoeur trade
Billy Wagner trade
Draft strategy (not going overslot, not signing players, reliever at 1st round …)
Francisco Rodriguez 2012 $17.5M option ($3.5M buyout)
Omar Minaya extension 3 years (2010-12), plus 2013-14 club options
Luis Castillo 4 years/$25M (2008-11)
Oliver Perez 3 years/$36M (2009-11)
Not to mention other things like Omar press show and Jerry ingame gangsta strategy.
by Michkin on Nov 11, 2009 6:37 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's about 32 million,
not counting F-Raud. 32 million in moves that were clearly low upside at the time. That’s about 1/4 of the payroll. Ouch.
by SeanSchirmer on Nov 11, 2009 7:33 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Join the community and dive in!
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
