Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

In response to a poster on Silva's blog


I wanted to know what you guys thought of my argument on yet another stats v scouts propaganda instigated by Silva.

If any holes or inconsistencies are found can you guys point em out for me?  I try to be as succinct as possible in real life situations when this comes up and i can always use the help of AA.  My argument follows

 

I truly wish you could have an argument with the likes of Quine, Putnam or Hempel because your reasoning is laughable. Effort, work ethic, game savvy are all accidental generalizations that almost appeal to an authority and are not falsifiable which turns this into a Creationism vs Darwinian theory argument.

We will NEVER find the “perfect” statistic much like Quantum Mechanics may one day be falsified like Aristotilian Physics and Newtonian Mechanics.

For a few years win shares was a big one, then VORP, now WAR. Each one albeit imperfect was a MASSIVE upgrade over W/L, Saves, Errors etc which at one time were very useful in gauging player evaluation. The SABRmetric community is attempting to progress and understand baseball better while willingly admitting and discarding out-dated or flawed statistics. Why are some people SO fearful of progress?

I don’t believe WAR is the unified theory of baseball evaluation due to the relatively strong arguments against UZR and +/-. I agree a run saved against a run created can be equal (and there are strong arguments saying a run saved can be more important) but we can’t take these advanced defensive stats in isolation, they play into the entire picture.

Also, the SABRmetric community EMBRACES the scouting aspect of baseball as shown by explosion of Pitchfx. Go to amazinavenue.com or fangraphs and at least once or twice a week a thread is created discussing certain players pitch location and stuff for the game and in regards to the playoffs on fangraphs each Burnett start was broken down by pitchfx.

Finally, the Dan Murphy argument is the ultimate straw man. You create some blanket statement with zero research. UZR is a statistic that the creators emphasize is best utilized on a three year sample size. Murphy played about 2/3rds of a season at 1B and prima facie looked pretty good over there. It is a mild indicator of future success at 1B but were he to turn into Giambi, nobody would be surprised.

This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.

Comment 6 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Good argument

But let’s just ignore Silva’s blog.

by James Kannengieser on Nov 14, 2009 1:30 PM EST reply actions  

how about Metsmerized too?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Nov 14, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Both sites are hilarious/infuriating

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Nov 14, 2009 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Comic relief

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Nov 14, 2009 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Only thing is, authors from MetsMerized don't come here to troll.

So I’ll agree with James. At this point, any notice we give NYBD is bad. Even if we’re making fun of it.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 14, 2009 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

point taken

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Nov 15, 2009 9:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ctm-logo_small
My dirty little secret: I was once a Yankees fan
Ricky-roma-300x224_small
Sabermetrics and Me: Drowning in Objectivity
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #3

Recent FanPosts

Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #5
X-wing_small
BrooksBaseball Player Cards: An Amazing Resource For Mets Fans Who Are Curious About How Pitchers Pitch In The Major Leagues
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #4
Small
Sandy Alderson, @MetsGM, and getting ready for Spring Training
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #1 (edit: and apparently #2)
Small
Two New York Players of OBP Yore
Small
Thoughts on 2012

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recommended FanShots

Judging by the comments to Matt Callan’s ode to 1986 Mets: A Year To Remember from a few weeks back, the video has a devoted Mets fan following. Despite being too young to remember anything about that season, it has a special place in my fandom as well. It was part of a two video rotation (Ghostbusters being the other) which ran almost daily on my television for a few years in the early 90s. And it remained a once-in-awhile watch through high school and college. 

Unsurprisingly, the physical tape deteriorated over time, and the screen jumps and sound skips made for a less than optimal viewing experience. With sale of the video discontinued, my brother converted it to DVD and gave it to me for Christmas in 2010. See the picture above for the box and DVD. He even created a scene selection function which can be accessed from the main menu. "Get Metsmerized!" plays on loop on the menu screen. It is my favorite Christmas gift ever and is still nice to throw on for a viewing.

"How'd we do it? Mirrors!"
I was flipping through some of my parents' photo albums this afternoon in search of one particular shot of the sign my older sister made for Mets Banner Day back in the late eighties. Though I didn't find that one — I'll post it when I eventually track it down, and I can assure you that it's Keith-themed — but I did stumble upon this wonderful photo of my younger sister's stuffed animal menagerie spread out in front of a glorious rainbow-festooned Mets pennant, also from the late eighties.

She works for the HRC now and was particularly delighted to be reminded of this photo.

(click to embiggen)
Now that banner day is back, hopefully this years will look a little like this. I know it's not great, but i don't pretend to be a professional. embiggen!

Recent FanShots

Yahoo Sports comments on Sandy's Tweets
Using hindsight to redo the Mets’ offseason | Mets360
Cespedes to the Athletics
Kevin Goldstein Top 101
Okay, there is no way this is Sandy Alderson
Ike & Duda fantasy stocks rising
Sabermetrics! Fantasy League is live.
What if the Mets Never Traded for Johan Santana? | Patrick Flood
[O]f the $136.7M the Mets spent on players in 2011, $72.8M was given to...
Witness claims that the Wilpons knew about Madoff

+ New FanShot All FanShots >

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Ctm-logo_small
My dirty little secret: I was once a Yankees fan
Ricky-roma-300x224_small
Sabermetrics and Me: Drowning in Objectivity
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #3

Recent FanPosts

Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #5
X-wing_small
BrooksBaseball Player Cards: An Amazing Resource For Mets Fans Who Are Curious About How Pitchers Pitch In The Major Leagues
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #4
Small
Sandy Alderson, @MetsGM, and getting ready for Spring Training
Mets002_small
2012 AA Prospects List #1 (edit: and apparently #2)
Small
Two New York Players of OBP Yore
Small
Thoughts on 2012

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


THE BIG GUY

Aa_avatar_small Eric Simon

THE INCREDIBLES

Blackfish2_small Alex Nelson

Endy_small Rob Castellano

Img_1262_small Matthew Artus

Kanye_pekka_small Sam Page

Best_infield_ever_small James Kannengieser

Metsstitches_small Eno Sarris

48900_1085732804_4466_n_small Chris McShane

Lg_rocker_ap_small Matthew Callan

Billy_and_daddy_4th_of_july_small Bill Petti

THE NEWS GURUS

Mrmet_small Steve Schreiber

3_small Stephen Schmidt

159714144_040c6c1501_small Pack Bringley

124967042_crop_340x234_small Jeffrey Paternostro