AAOP: Time for a new "Core"
Overall goals: Seriously upgrade the defense, add more power, build a deeper bench.
Blockbuster 3-way trade between Mets, Tampa Bay and Boston: Mets give up Jose Reyes, Luis Castillo, Bobby Parnell, Tim Redding, and Pedro Feliciano, Fernando Martinez, Jeff Francoeur and Daniel Murphy, get Dustin Pedroia from the Red Sox and Carl Crawford and Pat Burrell from Rays. Sox give up Pedroia, Mike Lowell and cash, get Reyes, Wright, Castillo, Murphy and Martinez. Rays give up Carl Crawford, Pat Burrell, get Mike Lowell, Bobby Parnell, Pedro Feliciano, Tim Redding, Jeff Francouer and cash. Why the Mets would do it: Pedroia provides awesome defense at second and a power bat, Crawford is the best fielding left fielder in baseball, gives us the opportunity to unload Castillo, Burrell is a trade chip (see below). Why the Sox would do it: They need a SS and offensive spark plug, Reyes is a marquee guy (“the most exciting player in baseball”). Lowell is aging (35), his productivity was off and his defense was way off, and he made $12M - they need to clear his payroll so they can pay for Holliday or Bay. Castillo backfills Pedroia (or is re-traded for someone else), Murphy provides a backup for 3B and 1B (or, again, a trade chip for Boston). Martinez gives them a high potential talent in the wings to replace Drew (a $14M under-performer) in another year or two. Why the Rays would do it: They just exercised a one year option on Crawford for $10M, which gives them a year to either negotiate a long term deal for big money (difficult for a small market team) or get their best value for him on the trade market. Their biggest needs are DH and rebuilding their bullpen; this gives them three solid relievers (one, Parnell, with great potential), Francoeur as a cheaper replacement outfielder, and a DH with power in Lowell, with Boston picking up part of his salary. They also unload Burrell, their current DH, and his salary.
Blockbuster trade 2: between Mets and Rangers, David Wright, Angel Pagan and Pat Burrell and cash for Nelson Cruz and Darren O’Day. Why the Mets would do it: Cruz is a great fielding Right Fielder (career UZR/150 11.0), hit .260 with 33 HR last year. O’Day bolsters the bullpen. Why the Rangers would do it: Wright and Burrell together add more offense than Cruz, they have a surplus of pitching talent and can afford to let O’Day go.
Free Agents:
Adam Everett (from Detroit) – former gold glove SS, defensive stud
Omar Vizquel (from Texas) – another infield defensive stud
Fernando Rodney (from Detroit) – RP who converted 37 of 38 save chances
Endy Chavez (from Seattle) – bring the glove back
Jason Marquis (from Colorado) Sinkerballer with a great defense behind him
Miguel Olivo (from Royals) –Catcher till Thole is ready, 20 HR
Carlos Delgado (IF he’s healthy, he can carry the team)
Nick Johnson (from Marlins) 1st base insurance
Craig Counsell (from Brewers) – backup infielder
Adrian Beltre (from Seattle) 3rd base
Starting lineup (salary): 2nd string
LF Carl Crawford (15.0) LF Nick Evans
RF Nelson Cruz RF Endy Chavez
CF Beltran (18.5) CF Endy Chavez
2B Pedroia (3.0) 2B Counsell
3B Adrian Beltre (5.0) 3B Counsell / Vizquel
1B Delgado (3.5) 1B Johnson
C Miguel Olivo (4.0) C Omir Santos
SS Everett (4.0) SS Vizquel
P
Bench:
OF Endy Chavez (2.5)
IF Omar Vizquel (1.0)
IF Craig Counsell (3.0)
OF / 1B Nick Evans (0.4)
C Omir Santos (0.4)
1B Nick Johnson (5.0)
Starting Rotation
Santana (21.0)
Marquis (5.0)
Pelfrey (5.3)
Perez (3.5)
Niese (0.4)
Bullpen:
K-rod (closer) (11.5)
Darren O’Day (0.4)
Rodney (5.0)
Maine (long relief / spot start) (2.8)
Fernando Nieve (0.4)
Brian Stokes (0.4)
Sean Green (0.4)
Total payroll ~ $122 million
It’s time to face facts: the “core” Minaya built has failed to deliver success and it’s time to build a new core. Shea stadium before, and Citifield even more, is a pitcher’s park, and any team to be successful has to have great defense. Except for Beltran, the fielding of the current team ranges from average (Wright, Reyes) to awful (Castillo, Francouer). Tinkering on the edges isn’t going to get it done, it’s time for a complete makeover. Infield of Pedroia, Everett and Beltre and outfield of Crawford, Beltran, and Cruz will be one of the best defenses in baseball, making all of our pitchers vastly more effective. Bench of Counsell, Vizquel, and Chavez means even if one of the front line goes down, the defense doesn’t skip a beat. Marquis wants to pitch for Mets, as a sinkerballer with Everett and Pedroia behind him and cavernous Citifield with that outfield he will be tremendously effective. With Thole in the wings, I wouldn’t spend a lot on a catcher, Olivo hit only .250 but over 20 HR for KC. With a better line up in front of him, he might see more strikes and be a pleasant surprise; if not, he holds the fort until next season when Thole is ready. Delgado is a crap shoot – if he is healthy he can carry the team, if not he’s just a potential long ball threat on the bench. I get him and Nick Johnson and let them duke it out for starter and backup role in Spring training. Rodney pitches the 9th if we’re behind, K-rod if we’re
ahead. O’Day is our setup man. Pedroia is under contract to the Sox a little cheaper than this, but assuming you would want to sign him to a very long term deal, he gets a small pay increase now that holds for two years until Beltran’s contract is up, then adjusts to market. Wilmer Flores is the SS of the future when Everett’s playing days are done, I’d sign Everett to a 2 year contract. Pedroia, Cruz, Beltre and Crawford are the “core” for the next decade. We weaken the bullpen, but with that defense behind them my grandmother could be an effective pitcher. Also, you might get more complete games as the starters don’t have to strike someone out to get an out and the defense turns hits into put-outs, so it should take a lot fewer pitches to get out of an inning, helping them to go deeper into the games.
Even with the great defense, the lineup will still score a lot of runs. Crawford is a 1st rate leadoff with
lots of speed at the top of the order. His wOBA is .367, Cruz is .368, so odds of the thumpers having someone on base is very high. Beltran, Pedroia, Cruz, Beltre and Olivo all have the potential to hit 20+ HR and drive in 80-100+ runs. If we’re lucky so can Delgado. Johnson gives you a power bat on the bench, and the depth gives you lots of flexibility to pull double-switches late in the game and rest players periodically throughout the season. You can’t expect to win 100+ of 160 games trotting out the same 8 guys every day; you wear them down and get injuries or late season burnout / collapse. That’s the Joe Torre / Willie Randolph approach to management, and it killed us down the stretch in ’07 and ’08 and came home to roost with the injuries last year.
I’d also hire a yoga instructor to work with the team on stretching out properly before practices and games. Bobby Valentine or Wally Backman is my manager, someone with some passion. I’d also take the money saved and pay whatever it takes to hire away the entire Marlins scouting and player development organization – somebody over there knows what they’re doing.
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Absolutely not
If you’re going to trade David Wright, you better get more than Nelson Cruz and Darren O’Day!! Not to mention the rotation is almost the same as last year, except Marquis for Maine. I think John Maine is better pitcher than Marquis when he’s healthy. Kudos for being creative, but this plan won’t work and it doesn’t make a whole lotta sense, quite frankly.
Lackey isn't the answer
I’d spend another $15-20 on a marquee pitcher if a Santana or Sabathia was available, but there aren’t any out there this year. Rather than invest in a risk like Lackey, I’ll hold my money and wait till next year.
i shed a tear as i read this
The core isn’t the issue, its the horrible peripherals. This is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 14, 2009 11:06 PM EST reply actions
steve2z
what you have just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
I feel like this quote has been used a lot, but I think it applies perfectly here.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Nov 14, 2009 11:07 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
keep using it as long as its applicable
mostly because its hilarious
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 14, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions
I hate this
We don’t need a new core. The trades, especially the Wright one, are terrible. You do realize Wright is younger and much better than Cruz, right? And if you want a ground-ball pitcher, why not get Pineiro, who is better than Marquis? Also, Rodney is pretty bad.
The defense makes me salivate
but the plan is so terrible.
No.
Just no. Absolutely not. There is so much wrong with this plan, I don’t even know where to begin.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 15, 2009 12:11 AM EST reply actions
I understand the sentiments
and appreciate the creativity. But why not just move Wright for 1st, Reyes to Center, and Beltran to left? You can still sign Everett and Beltre and you don’t have to lose massive value in those trades.
Stop pushing your fascist agenda, Page.
Your radical defense realignments will never work!!! NEVER!!!
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
To quote Eric's community guidelines
we won’t hesitate to move towards a policy of more liberal cleansing of unwanted elements
Reyes to Center?
I’m trying to bolster the defense, not make it worse. Reyes is not durable. 2007 – 2008 were the only years without time on the DL, and in both of those seasons he wore out and tailed off big time at the end of the year – a big part of our collapse. Wright, to the best of my knowledge, has never played first. By moving Wright and signing Beltre, you upgrade your defense at 3B and also keep the Phillies from getting Beltre.
The Phillies want Figgins
not Beltre.
Oh, and Reyes was not on the DL in 2005 and 2006.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 15, 2009 9:44 AM EST up reply actions
What does durability have to do with being a good CF?
Beltran has knee on knee bruises. Reyes is the fastest player on the team and has a strong arm.
oof.
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
You just traded Wright for Nelson Cruz and Darren O'Day
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR FUCKING MIND (If you have one)?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Where's Sitebot?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
This team is too old.
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
Tim Redding is a free agent
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Rev 1
Thanks all for the comments. On further reflection, I think I’d make the following changes:
1. Expect more from Texas for Wright – I’d look to stock the farm, so give me a few good prospects too
2. I’d use the extra $20M I wasn’t spending to get Holliday and put him in RF, and put Cruz on the bench in place of Nick Evans. This gives me another power bat and good glove on the bench, a better hitter in the lineup and no significant negative impact on the fielding. Payroll goes up to $142M
Why would you put Nelson Cruz on the bench?
That makes less sense than trading Wright for him in the first place.
NO! NO! NO! NO! N-O SPELLS NO!
no.
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?

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