AAOP: Younger, Hungrier, and with More Depth
Part I – Major Transactions
1. Sign Felipe Lopez.
I know many other Met fans like Orlando Hudson or Placido Polanco, but Lopez is younger and has offensive numbers that are just as good if not better. Offer him three years at $4,000,000 per year. Probably end up at $5,000,000 if there are other bidders.
2. Sign Matt Holliday.
This one has been debated ad infinitum, and I have very little to add. But given his age I’d rather offer 3 years for $22,000,000/year rather than the longer-term deals mentioned elsewhere, even if it’s a bit more per season. Perhaps with a club option for 2013 at $18,000,000.
3. Trade Luis Castillo to the Cubs for some low-level prospects.
Chicago’s a big market, so the Cubs can afford the high salary, and they can definitely use the offensive upgrade at second base. I wouldn’t be too picky about what the Mets receive in return, as long as the players received have some good potential. Obviously Castillo won’t be worth any of the Cubs’ best AAA players, but after Castillo’s 2009 success at the plate I think it would not be unreasonable to expect 3 or 4 good A/AA players.
4. Enter into a three-way trade with the Red Sox and Blue Jays, as follows:
(a) The Mets send Carlos Beltran to the Red Sox and Bobby Parnell, Pat Misch, Jeremy Reed and Chris Carter to the Blue Jays.
(b) The Red Sox send Jacoby Ellsbury to the Mets and some high-level prospects to the Blue Jays. (Basically the value of these prospects would equal the amount by which Carlos Beltran’s value exceeds Jacoby Ellsbury’s.)
(c) The Blue Jays send Roy Halladay to the Mets.
I think this is a fair deal for all three teams. The Mets get a desperately needed starting pitcher and a talented young center fielder with high batting average and speed appropriate to Citi Field. The Blue Jays get lots of prospects, and hopefully with their superior in-house pitching development they can make something of Parnell and Misch that the Mets never could. The Red Sox get one of the premier center fielders in the game. The trade is also good for Beltran, who would go to an automatic contender and therefore is very likely to waive his no-trade clause without holding out for any particular incentives.
This deal is important because the Mets, with all the holes in their roster, can’t afford to hold onto a premier center fielder who may be at the beginning of his career decline. It is much better to trade him now while his value is still high, than to wait until next year when more injuries or generally declining performance may have made him less attractive to other big market teams that can afford his salary.
5. Give Jeff Francoeur an extension.
I tend to agree with Joe Janish’s opinion on Francoeur. Francoeur will never be a superstar, but he is a solid young player, worth hanging on to when there are so many holes elsewhere in the Mets roster. Now is the time to bargain. I would offer him five years at $2,750,000 per year. If he demands more than $3,000,000 per season, let him walk. I doubt any other team would bid that much for his services, and if one does then I’m sure a similar player could be found for less on the free agent market.
6. Sign Aroldis Chapman.
The guy is young, and has already pitched well against major league batters at the WBC and other international events. The $40,000,000 price-tag mentioned in the press sounds steep, but really it depends how far it is spread out. Five years at $8,000,000 per year should do it, and would be worth the risk given the Mets’ rotation issues. A strong left-handed starter would be especially good for the Mets given Oliver Perez’s collapse, and the Phillies’ issues with southpaws.
7. Sign Randy Wolf.
This is the guy they should have signed instead of Oliver Perez. It seems he could be had for around $5,500,000. Should probably stick to a one-year deal, since hopefully Niese will be ready for full-time service in the MLB by 2011.
8. Sign Rod Barajas.
It would be nice to have a catcher who is an offensive threat, but there don’t seem to be any on the market, and there is no way the Mets have the talent to trade for Joe Mauer or Brian McCann. (Perhaps the Braves would part with McCann for Ike Davis, Fernando Martinez and Josh Thole, but even if so I don’t think it would be worth it.) I prefer Barajas over Bengie Molina because, although their numbers are similar, Barajas is younger and less expensive. He will probably take $2,500,000. Here’s hoping Josh Thole will have a good season at Buffalo and be ready to play for the Mets in September.
9. Offer John Maine $1,500,000 for a year.
Don’t go to arbitration. If he wants more, let him walk. I like John Maine and his “bulldog attitude”, but with his arm issues and the fact that no one expects him ever to return to his early 2007 form, he will almost certainly take a substantial pay cut.
10. Sign Kiko Calero.
He had his best season in 2009 and would make a great set-up man. Offer him $2,000,000 and I expect he'll take it.
Part II – Resulting Roster
Starting Lineup
1- Jacoby Ellsbury (CF) $475,000.00
2- Felipe Lopez (2B) $4,000,000.00
3- Jose Reyes (SS) $9,000,000.00
4- Matt Holliday (LF) $22,000,000.00
5- David Wright (3B) $10,000,000.00
6- Jeff Francoeur (RF) $2,750,000.00
7- Daniel Murphy (1B) $425,000.00
8- Rod Barajas (C) $2,500,000.00
It’s not exactly Murderer’s Row, but I think this is as strong a lineup as anyone can expect the Mets to field in 2010. Ellsbury, Lopez and Reyes are all strong on-base threats to set the table for Holliday and Wright. I prefer Reyes at #3 because he has slightly more power than Ellsbury, but other than that their numbers are similar. Wright at #5 gives Holliday some protection, and though some may pitch around Wright to get to Francoeur and Murphy, those two are not easy outs by any means. At the top of the order in 2009 they were inadequate, but as #6 and #7, I think Francoeur and Murphy really will make things difficult for opposing teams. At the very least, they can wear down opposing pitchers for their next trip through the order. Barajas is basically a stopgap until Thole is ready or a better offensive solution at C can be found at a decent price.
Pitching Rotation
1- Johan Santana (L) $20,000,000.00
2- Roy Halladay (R) $15,750,000.00
3- Randy Wolf (L) $5,500,000.00
4- Mike Pelfrey (R) $500,000.00
5- Aroldis Chapman (L) $8,000,000.00
I think this is a pretty strong rotation. It features a variety of styles and lefties and righties on alternating days. Furthermore have added enough talent that Pelfrey’s rank falls from #2 to #4; that is a sign of how much better the Mets’ starting pitching would be under my plan.
Bullpen
Closer: Francisco Rodriguez (R) $11,500,000.00
Set-Up: Kiko Calero (R) $2,000,000.00
Long-Relief/Mop-Up: Oliver Perez (L) $12,000,000.00
Long-Relief/Mop-Up: John Maine (R) $1,500,000.00
Situational Leftie: Pedro Feliciano (L) $1,900,000.00
Mid-Relief: Sean Green (R) $475,000.00
Mid-Relief: Brian Stokes (R) $425,000.00
A 7-man bullpen is risky, but necessary in my opinion. Position players can always be called up in a hurry from the minors, but if your minor league replacement for a pitching role pitched yesterday then you may be out of luck. Also, since we are stuck with Jerry Manuel and his atrocious bullpen management skills for at least another year, I want to give him as much cushion as possible for handling the pitching. For example, whenever the Mets are up or down by five runs or more, it makes no sense to push one of the starters to 115 pitches. Let Perez or Maine pitch the last three innings or so to rest all the other arms for when the score is close or tied.
Bench
Fourth Outfielder: Angel Pagan $600,000.00
Fifth Outfielder, 1B and Emergency Catcher: Nick Evans $425,000.00
Primary Backup Catcher: Omir Santos $425,000.00
SS, 2B: Alex Cora $750,000.00
3B, 2B, 1B: Edgardo Alfonzo $425,000.00
It’s a short bench, but I think it makes up for its small size with flexibility and grit.
Part III - Minor Transactions
If you're doing the math, you will notice that I have only spent $133,325,000.00 on the above players. I would also favor substantial spending on minor league scrapheap deals. In addition to Josh Thole, Fernando Martinez, Ike Davis and Jonathon Niese, I think the Mets should work very hard to have a strong pool of AAAA-type players in Buffalo available to provide depth in the event of injuries. Certainly sign Nelson Figueroa and Tim Redding to minor league contracts if they can be had for $750,000 or less (including MLB incentives if they kick in).
Edgardo Alfonzo could also be called a scrap-heap deal, but I think it's likely that he would make the team, given his performance in Japan in 2009.
This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.
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I think Castillo is worth some AAA prospects
I think you’re devaluing him too much
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
I wouldn't want to trade Beltran either
But considering his age/knee problems it’s not a horrible idea. I’d probably want to get more value back though then another old player with a soon to be expiring contract and Elsbury. That just seems like a lateral move.
That seems like a downgrade
Ellsbury is not a good center fielder, so we lose offense and defense.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Well Halladay is a major improvement over our other pitching options
But overall I don’t think we’re much better off.
Matt Holliday won't sign for three years
1. He will sign for atleast 5 or 6 years.
2. Don’t trade Beltran
3. I don’t think the Cubs will take Castillo unless we get some salary back.
4. Aroldis Chapman will not start his first year in the majors.
chapman
did he pitch well in the wbc? his era was 5.68.
in his last full season in cuba his era was 4.03. he’s talented but will definitely go through some growing pains before he can be a solid contributor in the majors.
DO you really want Edgardo Alfonzo on your bench?
He hasn’t been in the Majors since 2006.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Thoughtful plan
Then you had to go and give Francoeur an extension. Unreal. Considering he’s set to make about $4 mil in arbitration this year I don’t see why he would agree to 5 years and about $13 million.
by James Kannengieser on Nov 15, 2009 10:32 AM EST reply actions
Well that was part of my thinking . . . :)
If you’re right, then he can walk, as far as I’m concerned. My bet is that he’d test the free agent market, find nothing better, and come crawling back.
by Nomenclaturist on Nov 15, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
Oh God Francoeur for 5 years?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
5 years for Frenchy is 3-4 too many.
Also, I have serious doubts about that 3-way trade actually happening. Why the Boston get older (and way more expensive) in CF? And the guys we’re sending Toronto have almost no trade value; as a young, fairly good middle reliever who’s cost-controlled, Parnell probably has the most value out of the 4, and Misch and Reed have none. The Sox must be sending some serious prospects to the Jays to make that trade happen.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 15, 2009 10:58 AM EST reply actions
5 years for Frenchy is 5 too many
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 15, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
My thinking . . .
I think Boston would like the deal. They want to beat the Yankees next year and in 2011, and Beltran is more likely to make that happen than Ellsbury and whatever prospects they’d be giving up.
“No value” seems a little harsh, but I agree that the best parts of the deal for Toronto would have to come from Boston. I don’t think this is unrealistic, because: (value of Carlos Beltran) – (value of Jacoby Ellsbury) = (something pretty sweet)
And as for Frenchy, I think it all depends on the price . . . For less than $3,000,000, I’d sign him for whatever number of years he wants up to 5. For anything more than that, he can walk.
by Nomenclaturist on Nov 15, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
I think you're undervaluing what 3 million can get
There are a lot of more useful players than Frenchy who you can sign for short-term deals for around that, or less. Hinske and Craig Counsell signed for less than that combined last year.
Are they so great?
It may just be my bias in favor of youth, but Hinske and Counsell are getting on in years, and their numbers the past few years (particularly 2008 numbers, which are what teams would have seen when negotiating the contracts to which you refer) were generally worse than Francoeur.
And I do think it’s worth betting on Francoeur’s up-side potential – as he matures he may develop some plate discipline and figure out how to draw a walk. If he can do that without damaging his other numbers, then his value will skyrocket, and $3MM/year will seem like a stupendous bargain.
by Nomenclaturist on Nov 16, 2009 3:49 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see how you can bet on upside
from a player who’s been in the majors as long as he has and has been downright flippant when asked about his plate discipline, especially considering he came from an organization with a better track record of getting players to improve on things like that, basically I don’t expect anyone in the mets organization to be telling him his plate discipline needs massive work they probably think he’s perfect as is. Not to mention where do these ideas of Frenchy’s massive potential come from, was he a big time prospect before coming up or did he just have an awesome season over a short sample size and then regress back to his mean?
And yes on short term deals Counsell and Hinske are that great, Hinkse is only 30/31 isn’t he? It makes a lot more sense to sign an above average player to a one year deal than a below average player to multiple years on a whim that maybe evrerything will turn around.
Frenchy = no
Chapman could be good in the future, but he’s not valuable in the immediate future. I feel like everyone is flipping the panic switch on beltran. He had an injury.. yes, but everyone seems to think his career is instantly over and his value drops to zero. Even if he slows down a step a move to a corner OF slot would keep him fresh enough to play. I don’t think we need to sell him for a downgrade in CF.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 15, 2009 12:37 PM EST reply actions
Not giving up on Beltran . . .
I’m sure he’ll have some more good years, but the Mets should trade him now when they can still get value. If they wait until next year, he’ll have only 1 year left on his contract. It’s not a panic switch; it’s my honest cost/benefit analysis.
by Nomenclaturist on Nov 15, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
I actually agree with this
I see nothing wrong with trading Beltran, his contracts expiring he’s at an age where he’s likely going to begin to decline, if you can get a strong package for him, personally I don’t think the suggested package is good enough/the right mix, then it makes perfect sense to trade him. Other wise you’ve got a really tough decision about resigning him how much/how many years, what kind of contingency plan do you need considering bad knees is a big deal for a centerfielder, especially one in his 30s and especially playing in the park we have where a lot of ground needs to be covered. And if you keep him and he has a down year suffers more problems with his knees where do you go from there?
its not trading him I object to
its the undervaluing of him i see in almost all of these plans. Going from Beltran to Ellisbury is a huge downgrade in production. I’m not sure everyone is truly appreciating how much Beltran does for this team. If we are going to trade him we should shoot for decent market value on him.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 15, 2009 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
Well, not to quibble, but . . .
I think Beltran plus some fixer-upper-type prospects for a strong young leadoff-type hitter and a one year contract on one of the five best starting pitchers in the MLB is a pretty fair value. I don’t think this undervalues Beltran – certainly I would never trade Beltran for Ellsbury alone.
The issue here is that the Mets need to seriously upgrade their pitching as well as their offense. I guess it’s hard to make an apples-to-apples comparison here, but I think that under the circumstances it would be a good move. If you can come up with something better (fewer throw-ins, younger pitcher with a better contract situation, etc.), that the counterparty teams are likely to accept, then by all means!
by Nomenclaturist on Nov 16, 2009 3:42 AM EST up reply actions
exactly
our team was light hitting last year, now we’d be taking arguably our best hitter and replacing with a guy who’s at best average with the bat. Getting a one year renter on Halliday, while nice, really doesn’t do anything to help the team in a lasting sense. It makes us all feel good for a year, and then he’s likely gone and we’re left with ellsbury.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 16, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think Ellsbury's better than average
Batted .301 in 2009, with a healthy number of doubles and triples, and 70 stolen bases. Not a lot of power, but lots of speed and contact. I think Ellsbury/Lopez/Reyes would be a strong top of the order to set the table for Holliday and Wright. I agree Reyes/Lopez/Beltran/Holliday/Wright would be better than Ellsbury/Lopez/Reyes/Holliday/Wright, but some sacrifice needs to be made in order to fix the Mets’ pathetic starting rotation.
And I’m assuming the Mets will be able to negotiate a long-term deal for Halladay just as they did for Johan, who also had only one year left with the Twins when he was traded. It’s not really a rental.
by Nomenclaturist on Nov 16, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
The thing is Halladay
Is like 5-6 years older than Johan was. it’s not can we negotiate a long-term deal, though I really doubt the Wilpons would hand out another big pitching contract and I am 100% certain there is no way they hand out a big contract to Holliday AND Halladay, it’s why would you even want to with a pitcher thats nearing mid 30s.
And I think a slew of triples and doubles is quite the overstatement, he hits nearly 10-15 less doubles than you can expect from Reyes and without any of the homeruns Reyes will add. And he doesn’t even post the ridiculous obps a guy like Luis Castillo did it his prime to make up for his anemic power.
You make good points
Will you post a plan? I’d like to see what realistic trade proposal you had to get a young outfielder and a strong young pitcher in exchange for Beltran.
I do think that what I’m proposing makes the Mets substantially better than they are now, at least for a few years. If you have a better proposal I’d love to read it.
by Nomenclaturist on Nov 16, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
I think many of your choices do improve this team
i just don’t think this one particular portion of the plan is one of them.
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 16, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions
Is there a deadline for them?
If I had time later next week I might I’ll be on break then.
To be honest outside of possibly signing Holliday, it would depend entirely on his price tag, I would say that there’s not really any moves to be made this off-season, at least reasonable ones, that would be wise to make. I think we have too many holes to build a truly competitive team, anytime you have Johan, Wright, Beltran and Reyes and they stay healthy you should win 88-90 games on accident, without resigning ourselves to years worth of mediocrity after this season.
To me, a major problem with this team is they only seem to think off-season to off-season there’s no long range planning. My off-season plan for this year would have had to have started last year with signing Tex, trying to move Delgado for parts while he still had value, not signing Perez, among many other things. In this one off-season I really think the best decision would be to stand pat and if we’re going to add pieces add long-run ones, like a Matt Holliday or making a trade for Crawford if possible and not trying to fix everything now. You add Crawford or Holliday, once again totally depending on his price, or some other youngish outfielder now and don’t break the bank on a pitcher not worth it and you’re better now without sacrificing the future focus on developing prospects either for trades next off-season or to actually use. If you can’t get one of those guys then I’d essentially stand pat.
I also do think if we could get a serious package for Beltran we should at least consider moving him, but with the economy I can’t think of a team with the combination of players and money to take on his contract. Or K-rod though I’m not sure how many takers he’d have with his contract either.
why am I like the only person who doesnt sign kiko calero in their offseason plan
"Solo homers usually come with no one on base." -Ralph Kiner
because he's by far the best reliever on the market?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
valverde, gonzalez, beimel, rodney, soriano beg to differ
"Solo homers usually come with no one on base." -Ralph Kiner
Beimel is DEFINITELY not better.
And the rest of those guys are either worse or aiming to be closers.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
beimel is a valuable reliever
kiko calero isnt
case closed
"Solo homers usually come with no one on base." -Ralph Kiner
I think you'd lose that verdict
You’re closing your case after presenting zero evidence? The jury finds for Kiko Calero.
And just for the record, the 2009 numbers:
Calero: BAA .180 (!!), WHIP 1.10, 2.3 Ks/BB
Beimel: BAA .271, WHIP 1.37, 1.84 Ks/BB
by Nomenclaturist on Nov 16, 2009 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
it was a fluke year for calero
and you have to take his stats with a grain of salt generally when hes pitching in the al west
"Solo homers usually come with no one on base." -Ralph Kiner
Calero's career FIP is 3.29
Beimel’s is 4.40
Calero’s career K/9 is like 4 higher than Beimel
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
and also
if we’re looking for players that are “hungrier”, we should just resign livan
"Solo homers usually come with no one on base." -Ralph Kiner
by metsguy234 on Nov 15, 2009 1:41 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 15, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
i like the plan all around. upgrades at 2B, C, LF…I like beltran, but I would have no problem moving him for Ellsbury and Halladay. Overall even with Beltran leaving this team is leaps and bounds better offensively than the team last year, and Santana-Halladay is tops 1-2 punch in baseball. Not sure about alfonzo on the bench, but i’ll chalk that up to nostalgia.
The Beltran trade is interesting. I might do it.
But the plan has so many problems:
1. You are not getting 3-4 good AAA players for Castillo. I would settle for a 25 year old rookie baller if the Cubs pay his salary.
2. Why would you ever give Francoeur 5 years? It makes no sense.
3. Chapman is not major league ready. Not even close. He was terrible in the WBC, and he was mediocre in Cuba. He needs to go to AA, so he is probably not worth $40M to a team like the Mets.
4: Randy Wold is going to take a lot more than 1 year at $5.5M. He’s probably going to be asking for something like 3/27, and while he probably won’t get that, he could get 2/18.
5. Rod Barajas sucks.
Thanks for commenting!
You cover a lot of the same points others covered, as well as some new ones, so I’ll just respond here:
1. I did say A or AA, not AAA. But I agree it would be great just to get rid of Castillo’s salary to make room for Lopez at 2B.
2. Francoeur is young, and he may not get better but I think it will be a while before he starts getting worse. But I don’t think anyone else will be beating down his door with a contract, so I think now would be a good time to buy low with a long-term deal at a low price. Definitely don’t let him go to arbitration. He’s not worth $4,000,000. If he walks and finds a better deal elsewhere, then more power to him. Sign somebody else.
3. You may be right. I’m biased in favor of youth. Figueroa or Niese can be #5.
4. I may have underestimated Wolf’s value because he signed for less than $5,000,000 last year. But my plan does have a cushion before hitting $150,000,000 so hopefully Wolf would still fit in there.
5. I’m not crazy about Barajas either, but I think he’s not significantly worse than Molina, and he will come much cheaper.
by Nomenclaturist on Nov 15, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions

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