AL Cy Young Winner Uses Statistical Numbers
Zack Greinke, that's false hustle.
Interesting read. Not often you read MLB players talking about FIP and zone ratings.
Comments
Very nice article
Kepner is a talented writer but kind of infamous for his sabermetric skepticism, good for him writing that in the Times. Another solid writeup about Greinke from Sports Illustrated – his response when asked what he’s been up to this offseason:
“I’ve been playing this World of Warcraft game a lot.”
by James Kannengieser on Nov 17, 2009 10:18 PM EST reply actions
Oh man that's bad news for the Royals
Greinke’s gonna spend the whole winter drinking Mountain Dew and worrying about how to get a +9 shield of enlightenment for his Level 19 Paladin.
Or something like that.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Nov 17, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions
Probably a better plan than playing Guitar Hero
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 18, 2009 2:44 AM EST up reply actions
Is Joel Zumaya even alive anymore?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 18, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
I was so close to catching the dragon one time
That game is hard
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
So what I've gotten from this
Is there’s no way Greinke leaves his moms basement in the off-season.
I like Kepner, but he can be a bit sensational at times
This was a good piece.
by vivaelpujols on Nov 18, 2009 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
it must suck to be aware of advanced stats
And play for the royals
by Gina on Nov 17, 2009 10:22 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Quote of the year candidate:
"That’s pretty much how I pitch, to try to keep my FIP as low as possible" —Zack Grienke
I have a feeling this is going to become more and more common
and in true Moneyball fashion, Omar will exploit the market defiency: as everyone else in the league has teams full of good baseball players, Omar will sign guys who flaunt how much they suck like Jeff Francouer.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
In the article,
it says Bannister introduced him to FIP and Zone Rating. Maybe that’s the real reason Omar traded him; he didn’t want this to spread to the rest of the clubhouse.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 17, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
Brian Bannister taught a Cy Young pitcher how to elevate his game to the next level.
Our PITCHING COACH couldn’t even do that.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
And Omar traded him away for a murderer
Not to mention a relief pitcher.
by boom_roasted on Nov 18, 2009 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
So, you lobby for Brian Bannister to be our pitching coach?
by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 18, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions
Pitching coach?
I’d want him as our general manager. And as part of our rotation.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Player-GM? Sounds good. Hopefully he also fires Manuel mid-game, killing two birds with one stone.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 19, 2009 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
and let's not forget top royals prospect Disco Hayes
This post entitled “Ouch, my BABIP” got me hooked.
by letsgocyclones on Nov 18, 2009 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Regardless of his stats, we need to trade for Disco Hayes immediatley.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 18, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions
EVERYONE, GO READ THE DISCO HAYES BLOG!
His newest post asks (and explores with UZR/150) such questions as:
Why don’t the fielders ever swap positions?
Why doesn’t one of the infielders move out into the outfield instead of shifting?
Why can’t organizations teach their specialty and late relievers to play first base?
All this, and the guy is named “Disco” because his fast ball is in the 70s.
by letsgocyclones on Nov 18, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
OH MY GOD
Disco Hayes is my new favourite player. He’s like The Manchurian Candidate for people who live in their mother’s basement. I mean, we thought Banny might be ‘our guy’, but I think Disco takes it up a notch.
He loses points for dissing hockey.
That introduction about a “baseball learning curve”, and people not understanding/noticing it’s intricacies is spot on, though.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 18, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
Yes he is. Admit it. Disco is just too awesome; disses against hockey might dimish his awesomeness, but it still burns so, so brightly
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 18, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
But hockey sucks
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
by Evan_S on Nov 18, 2009 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Depends on the situation. Bender went to robot hell, but was quite clearly still alive during and after the experience
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 18, 2009 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Well I have been to New Jersey before...
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Hell is in New Jersey?
Who would ever have thought it?
by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 18, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
That's where Robot Hell was in Futurama
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
FYI
You can watch the episode here.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 18, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
I've seen every episode a good 50 times
Used to watch it every night when it was on Adult Swim, and now I catch it on Comedy Central when there’s nothing else on. I miss being able to watch it at 2 in the morning every night, but at least they replaced it with the equally great King of the Hill.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I am still pissed off that King of the Hill was replaced with the crappy Cleveland Show. Do we really need three versions of crappy Family Guy?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 19, 2009 12:26 AM EST up reply actions
I enjoy Family Guy (when they try to make it funny) and Aemrican Dad,
but the Cleveland show has been bad thus far. King of the Hill was great, there was no need to cancel it, it’s been consistently funny for 15 years.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I used to like Family Guy. The older episodes are still good, mostly.
The newer episodes, the quality went downhill badly. Unless you’re stoned at the time, that is. Too much crap, mixed with too much of an overt political agenda ruins it for me.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 19, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
What is with the Royals organization?
Bannister, Greinke, even their prospects know about statistics and their value to evaluating ball players, but the front office is stupid enough to trade for Yuniesky Betancourt.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Maybe if the Royals got their heads out of their spreadsheets
and actually played the game the right way, they’d win a few games.
by TheBigStapler on Nov 17, 2009 10:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I wonder how Greinke and Bannister reacted to the Betancourt trade.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
DAMN YOU DAVE CAMERON
Literally seconds after I post that…
“So, Bannister and Greinke (at least) look at UZR. I would pay huge money for video of their reaction to the acquisition of Yuni Betancourt.”
from his Twitter feed.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Great sign
The blowout vote is an encouraging sign that even the flat earth society in the MSM are starting to get it, at least a little. I’m not sure if they were using FIP while casting their ballots, but at least they got past wins and dug deeper.
what do you expect from the Times?
They used to employ Murray Chass
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 18, 2009 6:43 AM EST up reply actions
and maybe he meant UZR
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 18, 2009 6:44 AM EST up reply actions
I give the voters zero credit on this one
The only reason Greinke won is because his primary competition was on a similarly out of contention team. If the Mariners had been closer to the playoffs, or CC had an ERA closer to 3.00, they would have won in a landslide.
This is false hope.
I'm inclined to agree with you
Although the top three vote-getters were all on non-playoff teams, so maybe there’s some light at the end of that tunnel.
But, hey, mostly I posted the link because it was a neat read about a pitcher who appears to actually understand more advanced pitching metrics. I think that’s pretty cool.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Nov 18, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions
Top three vote getters
Both Hernandez and Verlander had 19 wins. Verlander was 2nd in the AL in FIP and Hernandez was 4th. So why did Hernandez get so many more votes? His ERA was almost one run lower. That is why I don’t give them credit. My guess is that if Verlander had won one more game or the Tigers make the playoffs, he gets the CY. If only he had been able to will Fernando Rodney to close out the 10th.
But I agree, it’s a good article, and I’d have more faith in Greinke or Bannister running the Mets than the current front office.
At the very least
I bet either one would do a better job than Dan Warthen.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Nov 18, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Listen, Zack
I know you play the games, but do you even watch the games? FIP doesn’t tell the whole story.
by James Kannengieser on Nov 18, 2009 9:28 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 18, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions






















