White Sox Sign Andruw Jones

Reportedly just a $500k base salary with just $1 million in incentives. Can you say missed opportunity?

about 2 years ago Mark Himmelstein 36 comments 0 recs |

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I don't see it as a missed opportuniy

unless you mean an opportunity for Omar to screw up.

Omar may have signed Jones and ignored Holliday or Bay.

by fxcarden on Nov 25, 2009 3:24 PM EST reply actions

Omar may do that anyway

and instead trade for Dye and his 11 million, or pick up Cust.

by Gina on Nov 25, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions

Or maybe he could have granted everyone's wish

And non-tendered Jeff Francoeur and signed Holliday anyway. Then you’ve got Holliday, Beltran, Jones, and Pagan to construct your outfield from, four plus defenders who have some offensive value, two of whom will make less than $2 mil, and the other two, bonafide superstars getting paid bonafide superstar money. The total package would cost about $40 million, and you could easily get at least $50 million worth of production, or even as much as $60 mil.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 25, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions

That's Meddler logic.

we are talking about Omar, though.

by fxcarden on Nov 25, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions

Wow.

Didn’t Cory Sullivan make more than that last year?

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Nov 25, 2009 3:28 PM EST reply actions

Yep 600,000

by Gina on Nov 25, 2009 3:29 PM EST up reply actions

Ugh.

I think I just threw up in my mouth.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 25, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions

ewwww

by fxcarden on Nov 25, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions

yeah what am I missing

Andrew Jones wouldn’t even play center on this team unless you think Beltran’s knees are worse than people are letting on. And while I haven’t studied it, I would imagine his bat in a corner spot is just about worthless now

by Endys Game on Nov 25, 2009 3:30 PM EST reply actions

Because he's a low risk high upside move

And it makes more sense to go after him than make some of the low risk low reward, like Corey Sullivan , moves we always seem to end up making. Plus it’s not like we’re overflowing with outfield options with bats good enough to play in the corners, unless we get Holliday or Dye it’s entirely possible than Jones will end up being better, and possibly cheaper, than multiple outfielders we give playing time. He’s already gonna cost way less than Frenchy and possibly less than Reed if he’s kept around.

by Gina on Nov 25, 2009 3:32 PM EST up reply actions

There's also the fact that these are the moves we didn't make last year

The low risk/high reward signings, giving incentive laden contracts to players with some high upside, and that’s something that needs to change if they want to seriously compete with the current roster. The team has too many holes/depth issues to just add one big name free agent and then fill the rest of the roster with cheap signings, we could compete with that but that type of team can’t hold up to a couple bad breaks, as we’ve seen the last few years. And since they’re not going to break the bank on multiple free agents like the Yankees it’s either make a big signing and then empty the farm system/a lot of depth we can’t really afford to move into a trade or make a lot of these small low risk/high reward moves.

by Gina on Nov 25, 2009 3:43 PM EST up reply actions

Precisely

Last year Andruw’s line was .214/.323/.459/.782 with a 100 OPS+. If he does well enough that the WSox play him a lot, he’ll collect $1.5 million. He was an average CF in 2008, and a slightly above average corner OFer in 2009

Jeff Francoeur’s line was .280/.309.423.732 with a 93 OPS+. Regardless of how well or poorly he plays the Mets are going to pay him over $3 million. He shouldn’t play CF. He has been a below average OFer for the last two years.

Corey Sullivan’s line was .250/.338/.382/.720 with a 92 OPS+. He can be had for around the ML minimum. He’s capable of playing CF. He has been a hair below average defensively every single year he’s played.

by SeanSchirmer on Nov 25, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions

Plus he projects similarly to Jeff Francoeur offensively

Francoeur:

James: .324 wOBA
CHONE: .272 / .312 / .424, -8 R/150

Jones:

James: .335 wOBA
CHONE: .226 / .322 / .414, -9 R/150

And Jones projects WAY better defensively. The projections on that spreadsheet have Jones at 11.2 UZR in CF and Francoeur at 1.5. Jones projects as nearly a full win better than Francoeur, even if you use the CHONE projection and bring Jones’ defense down a bit. Oh yeah, and now even if he reaches his incentives, he’ll make less than half of what Jeff Francoeur makes.

I just remember discussing in another thread what Jones might make this year, and someone suggesting he’d make at least a few million. If that were the case, fine, its a pretty lateral move to swap in Jones for Francoeur, and a bit redundant to have them both on the roster. But if Jones can make $1.5 million at most, this is an awful recognition of opportunity cost.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 25, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Even if

Beltran’s knees aren’t worse than people are letting on, they’re not in great shape.

by Mount17 on Nov 25, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions

yeah and it might make sense

to bring in an average centerfielder and move beltran to a corner to lengthen his career, plus, and this might just me by my perception. it seems like filling centerfield with a league average player might be easier/cheaper, than the solutions in the corners.

by Gina on Nov 25, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions

If we're going that route, then why not use Pagan in CF?

by Syler on Nov 25, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions

I guess cause he's more of a question mark a

and it’s not certain that last year wasn’t a fluke. I don’t mean spending considerable money on a cf, but someone like Mike Cameron, or someone like Jones who could have been had very cheaply so you have Pagan for depth but more of a sure thing.

by Gina on Nov 25, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions

No reason to get upset over the moves Omar doesn't make

they’ll likely be more than enough moves he does make to be sick over.

by Gina on Nov 25, 2009 3:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

Yeap, that's one Rec right there.

by fxcarden on Nov 25, 2009 4:07 PM EST up reply actions

There'd be too much to complain about if we did. We wouldn't be able to contain it all.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 25, 2009 6:53 PM EST up reply actions

one thing this signing does mean

Jermaine Dye is def gone from the White Sox.

by Endys Game on Nov 25, 2009 3:31 PM EST reply actions

Not necessarily

that’s not starter money. Although, I don’t see Dye coming back anyway.

by Sam Page on Nov 25, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions

I really wanted him...

by Sam Page on Nov 25, 2009 4:00 PM EST reply actions

Missed opportunity... to bring in an average bat who may not even be able to play the field anymore?

I understand he only cost $500,000, but it’s not as if he has any significant upside at this point.

There are better options out there.

by Syler on Nov 25, 2009 5:13 PM EST reply actions

Just out of curiousity which options?

Obviously Holliday, and Bay, though you could argue at his price Bay isn’t a better option. Then what? Crawford may be a better option but he’s going to cost a boatload of prospects likely. Plus Jones doesn’t have to be an option, just an incredibly cheap back up plan. If we get outpriced for Holliday and Bay and can’t work out a deal for someone like Crawford then having a .5 million dollar back up plan is better than having to go foward with what we have/overpay for someone “last minute”, kind of like how once Lowe signed supposedly they rushed to sign Perez so he wouldn’t sign elsewhere, because they didn’t have a plan C.

by Gina on Nov 25, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions

I meant in term of backup OFs

Someone like Endy Chavez or Joey Gathright would be better options than Jones, and just as cheap

I realize Jones seems like a much better hitter than those options, but he actually hit .199/.706 outside of Texas last year which is indescribably awful.

It would’ve been ok to sign him, but it’s not the end of the world.

by Syler on Nov 25, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions

If you assume he can't play the field, fine

But I see no reason to make that assumption. Just because the Rangers didn’t let him play the field much, doesn’t mean he can’t. He was adequate for the Dodgers in 2008, fine when he played for the Rangers in 2009, and elite before that. Assuming he’s now a poor defender seems like just as much a jump in logic as assuming Francoeur deserve gold glove consideration. At worst, Jones projects to be roughly as valuable as Francoeur, and he’ll cost less than half what Francoeur is going to get in arb. The fact that this signing happened so quickly is really the worst part. I had assumed Jones would at least wait and try to get starter money, being that he didn’t, and that he signed before the arb deadline, it was the perfect opportunity to get better value out of Frenchy’s roster spot.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 25, 2009 5:32 PM EST up reply actions

First off, I don't like Francoeur and I don't want him back, so I'm not sure why his name is brought up

And it’s not “assuming” anything, it’s looking at it realistically.

His defense dropped all the way down to league average or worse when he went to LA in 2008.

Citing his defense statistics with the Rangers is kind of flawed considering he only played 148 innings in the outfield all year.

His body is in terrible shape, and he’s signing with his 2nd AL team in a row, which I don’t think is a coincidence.

Given that, plus his bat which is barely league average at this point, I see no reason to make a big hoopla over not getting him.

by Syler on Nov 25, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions

Because I'm not complaining about your ability to make decisions

I’m complaining about Omar’s. I actually think having Francoeur isn’t the worst thing in the world, I don’t dislike him, I don’t think he’s particularly valuable, but I don’t think he’s at a point where his cost far outweighs his value. But his cost does far outweigh Jones’ and its pretty easy to project them as roughly equal values.

Also, I didn’t really cite any defensive stats, I just said he was acceptable for the Dodgers and didn’t embarrass himself for the Rangers. If he doesn’t want to play the outfield anymore, that’s his business, and maybe he isn’t in shape to do so, but I haven’t seen any evidence that this is the case. And assuming that just because he didn’t, he can’t, isn’t strong logic. Maybe he’s not a +20 defender anymore, but assuming all of a sudden he’s Adam Dunn isn’t fair either.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 25, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions

And by "Assuming"

I just mean creating a hypothetical. As in, if Andruw Jones can’t play defense anymore, I agree with your conclusion, or if he can still play some defense, he’s a solid pickup for $500k

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 25, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions

Whoa...how the mighty have fallen.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Nov 25, 2009 5:37 PM EST reply actions

I know it probably would have been a good move

but I’ve always hated Andruw Jones, so I’m glad I’m not gonna have to root for him

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Nov 25, 2009 5:39 PM EST reply actions

That's how I feel.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 25, 2009 6:54 PM EST up reply actions

he'd have been a good defensive sub

but I can’t really be mad about not signing him until I see who he does actually sign. If he pays more for someone worse than Andruw, then i’ll be outraged, but all my outrage will likely come in a wave of anguish at the end when i see the finished product

by KeithsMoustache on Nov 25, 2009 9:12 PM EST reply actions