Pierre for Ollie?
I've heard Pierre for Castillo but if the Dodgers want an overpaid back end of the rotation starter then Oliver Perez fits the bill.
about 2 years ago
Bobby Baseball
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I'd think it over
But probably turn it down being that I don’t think we can turn Pierre around for someone else with that stupid contract he has.
by scott from peekskill on Nov 29, 2009 1:45 PM EST reply actions
I bet it gets done
and our outfield consists of Francoeur, Beltran and Pierre.
/shoots Omar
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Pierre sucks, but
does he suck more than Ollie? We would save 5.5 million over 2 years with Pierre instead of Ollie. Pierre projects for about 1 WAR in CF with a .308 wOBA. As a back-up he has some value as a defensive replacement. He is projected by BtB for 1 UZR/150 in CF and 3 in LF. Ollie is the same or worse than Pierre. I would do it.
"What was my greatest fear in the past is now upon us. Armed with their "advanced metrics" and clutching their spread sheets, the new-age baseball voters have officially taken over the sport" - Bryan Burwell
Pierre may not have any power
But he hits for average, has amazing speed, plays great defense in left (16.4 UZR/150 with a sample size of 6.7 UZR in 94 games in left) and makes good contact (93.2 Contact %). If we can’t have Crawford, Pierre brings a lot of the tools that Crawford brings.
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
Pierre is not close to being as good as Crawford
Crawford is a much better hitter and fielder. Pierre is a backup.
"What was my greatest fear in the past is now upon us. Armed with their "advanced metrics" and clutching their spread sheets, the new-age baseball voters have officially taken over the sport" - Bryan Burwell
decent backup = way better than Ollie Perez
I’d do it. Hopefully the Mets would understand that he’s nothing more than a pinch runner/defensive replacement
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I don't know about that
For similar money, I’ll take Ollie. He still has good strikeout numbers, and he’s a ~2 win player as long as he brings his walk rate closer to his career average and not the ridiculous 7.91 BB/9 he had last season. I’d rather have Ollie and Endy than Pierre.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
2 war is generous
He’s only been that high twice, and once was his miracle season back with the Padres. He seems to have been between -1 and 1.5 most of his career.
You're right
1 or 1.5 is more appropriate if he brings down his walk rate.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I think Ollie's very close to Pierre and Pierre is cheaper
So Pierre
"What was my greatest fear in the past is now upon us. Armed with their "advanced metrics" and clutching their spread sheets, the new-age baseball voters have officially taken over the sport" - Bryan Burwell
I didn't say Pierre was as good
I said he had the same good tools.
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
by Bobby Baseball on Nov 30, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
pierre for ollie...
addition by subtraction, not great, I’ll take it though….
Maybe it's just me, but I'd actually do this in a heartbeat.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
It would bring us this much closer to the coveted outfield that is entirely made up of non French/Canadiens with French sounding last names.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
by squid92 on Nov 29, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and the coveted low OBP team
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 30, 2009 6:43 AM EST up reply actions
it's not on the scoreboad
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Nov 30, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
I like that it gets us out of Perez' contract. I don't like that we won't get to see Perez turn into Koufax, though. His maturity is getting there.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 8:21 PM EST reply actions
If Bill James' projections for Perez for next year are correct, though...Ouch, we're in for crappiness like we've never seen.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't do it
Pierre is—at best—a good 4th OFer.
Ollie is—at best—a slightly above average starting pitcher.
That’s a huge difference in value. The Mets aren’t wanting for fourth OFers, but they are hurting for starting pitching. The difference in their contracts is significant but not overwhelming. To put it another way, a decent 4th OFer can be had for $2m or less. A slightly above average starter will run you around $10m. I’d have to think there’s less than a 20% chance that Ollie returns to his 2007-2008 form for this to even possibly be a worthwhile trade. And to put it yet another way, what’s the point? Assuming we sign another OFer Pagan is our 4th OFer, and he be one of the best 4th OFers in the majors. Murphy and Evans are 5th and 6th OFers, and Tatis can play either corner if needed. There’s really no useful role for Pierre on the 2010 Mets.
But at worst
Ollie is a horrendus starting pitcher who they’ll continue to send out there and who will provide negative value. At worst Pierre is a good 4th outfielder.
Absolutely
I would basically give Oliver Perez away at this point. He has no use to this team as a pitcher. He came into camp last year way overweight and out of shape after stuffing his face with tacos and empanadas and throwing 1/3 of an inning during the WBC. He is a baby and Dan Warthen has to hold his hand through every start and make sure he’s consistent with his arm slot and release point. He’s 28 and an 8 year veteran major league pitcher who still has the same mechanical issues that he had when he came into the league. He is declining in velocity. I would take a sack of BP balls and a Subway coupon for Perez at this point. He hasn’t figured it out yet and it doesn’t look like he ever will. Pierre is no gem either, but at least he can play good defense and cover the ground in LF at Citi. Though the thought of Pierre and Francoeur at the corner OF spots makes me shudder almost as much as Murphy/Tatis and Church did last year.
I would chalk his decline in velocity to injury, this season.
When his fastball was topping out at 88-89-90, that was before he went on the DL that first time. When he came back, his fastball was topping out in the more Oliver Perez-like 92-93-94. Those 5 +/- MPH make a big difference. Of course, if they were in the strike zone, that’d be better, but…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
His fastball was topping out at 90-92
for the last 2 years. His velocity has been declining for a while.
Given that he's "exiting" his prime, there's no surprise there. The speed on his fastball this season, before he went on the DL, were signifigantly slower than they were after he came back.
When I’m trying to say is, his super-slow fastball that was thrown for a significant portion of this season is an exception, not the proverbial rule. There’s a graph here () that has a pretty good graph of his fastball speeds per season.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
Except
If we trade him to LA then we have to find another pitcher to replace him and thats going to cost $$$$$$$$$$$. Are there any prospects ready to step up and replace Ollie, I dont see any. Is anyone actually thinking that the Mets will buy 2 starting pitchers, a left fielder AND a 2b?
i dont see this happening unless we swap players with Cinncy and bring back Arroyo.
by scott from peekskill on Nov 29, 2009 11:31 PM EST reply actions
Niese could
though I’d like to see him in the middle of the year not starting it.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
His injury was pretty severe
Stripping a hamstring from the bone is pretty major. is he going to be close for spring training. I havent read anything about him
by scott from peekskill on Nov 29, 2009 11:59 PM EST up reply actions
He's supposed to:
“The doctors expect him to be 100 percent by spring training, although he knows there’s going to be a lot of work to do once he starts rehab,” added Jeff. “But the good news is that the doctors expect him to start running in six weeks.”
Jeff is his father.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
Thank God
I thought Jeff Wilpon which would make that quote mean: the doctors say his leg is gonna have to come off.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Only after reports first list him day-to-day with appendicitis, though.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2009 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
about time
i suggested this move 2 mo ago and everybody thought LA wouldn’t go for it/ you either get rid of ollie now or you pray he has a good spring so you can unload him by the trade deadline.
Also maybe we should be talking with the marlins about what it would take to get johnson
If he has a good spring
There’s no way Omar trades him, he’ll just assume his scouting instincts on Ollie were right all along.
another option
send castllo. ollie and frenchy to the cubs for bradley and prospects/ i know bradley is a cancer on a team / but with the savings you could sign a lackey or holliday/ and texas would probably take him back if we needed to unload him for a bag of balls
Torre sucks too
not on Jerry’s level, but still not that good. I want Bobby V!
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
torre is a bit overrated
im not a big fan
by KeithsMoustache on Nov 30, 2009 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Omar might just do it: Torre is highly overpaid as a manager with mediocre, so he'd fit right in.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Forget if this is a good deal for the Mets for a second
Would the Dodgers do it?
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
Supposedly the Dodgers were interested in Perez last off-season
But I have no idea how much truth there was to it.
I'm going to go out on a limb
And say we probably should just stop thinking about trading Ollie. Was his contract a disaster waiting to happen? Yes. Was his 2009 season terrible? Yes. Is he as awful as he was in 2009? No. Is his terrible 2009 obscuring the perception of his value (financially independent)? Yes.
The Bill James projection, notorious for its offensive optimism and pitcher-run-prevention pessimism, has Ollie marked down for a 4.98 FIP. That’s pretty bad, and nowhere near worth $12 million, but its also not as bad as a lot of us seem to believe at the moment. At this point, I’m inclined to just leave him alone, mark him down as the #5 SP (as in the worst one on the roster) and move forward from there. If he does pitch to his 4.98 FIP, his flyball/bat missing ways combined with some (hopefully) positive adjustments to outfield defense might allow him to recoup some value going into his walk year, when desperate teams will be much more inclined to give him a look with the reduced risk of a one-year commitment. His contract is essentially sunk cost at this point, and the total value the Mets could get back from him right now is probably less than the total value of letting him pitch for another year and then putting him on the market next offseason. Letting Ollie pitch for another year and then trying to deal him is also probably more valuable than taking on Juan Pierre and his ridiculous contract in return. Pierre’s perceived value, which is similar to Ollie’s perceived value, is probably much closer to his actual value at this point than Ollie’s is.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 30, 2009 7:19 PM EST reply actions
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