Hall Of Fame Thread
by James Kannengieser on Nov 29, 2009 2:40 PM EST
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PrintThis year's Hall of Fame ballot was recently released, featuring the following players:
Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Harold Baines, Bert Blyleven, Ellis Burks, Andre Dawson, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Tim Raines, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Robin Ventura, Todd Zeile.
I would vote for the following:
- Roberto Alomar
- Bert Blyleven
- Barry Larkin
- Edgar Martinez
- Mark McGwire
- Tim Raines
- Alan Trammell
Use this thread for any Hall of Fame discussion.
This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.
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Hmm
I think I’d use my full ten picks
-Bert Blyleven
-Andre Dawson
-Tim Raines
-Mark McGwire
-Jack Morris
- Roberto Alomar
-Barry Larkin
- Edgar Martinez
- Fred McGriff
-Lee Smith
A "Zeile" for avoiding outs
Here's mine
Blyleven
Raines
McGwire
Alomar
Larkin
Trammell
I could be convinced on Edgar but I really don’t think full time DHs should be in unless they hit like Pujols.
"I got my pregnant wife (the Yankee fan) with me. Hoping my kid learns to kick her everytime the Mets score." -Schifftis-
Todd Zeile
He doesn’t make outs apparently.
And then of course Alomar Byleven Raines McGwire Larkin and Edgar
I'd be interested in reading your argument for Robin Ventura
I’m not sure that a compelling case can be made for him.
Easy
Ventura>Jim Rice
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Corky Simpson says so
Matt Williams, my first Hall of Fame vote for an Arizona Diamondback player. Matty played 17 seasons for the Giants, Indians and Diamondbacks. Nobody ever played the game with more intensity, nor with more reverence for the sport.
but not McGwire
Of those I didn’t vote for but wish I could have, Mark McGwire tops the list. One of the greatest sluggers in baseball history, Big Mac broke Roger Maris’ record with 70 home runs in 1998 and accumulated an astounding 583 for his career. But there is doubt about whether McGwire’s career was chemically enhanced and unless — and until — that matter is taken care of, this voter won’t mark the ballot for Mark.
Guess it’s irrelevant Williams was in the Mitchell Report.
Seriously though, I don’t believe Ventura is a Hall of Famer, it’s just that Rice has set the bar lower.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
is corky simpson that guy
whos like 80 years old and his HoF ballot he wrote for some 3rd rate scottsdale, az paper got the internet all in a tizzy?
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
The only real death toll for his case is the time.
In Ventura’s peak, the 13 years when he played full seasons (1990-2002, keeping in mind only about half a season in 1997), Ventura had 52.9 WAR for an average of about 4 WAR per season. That’s awesome. He was consistently one of the best fielding first basemen in the league, never having a Total Zone rating below 4 (with several seasons as high as 14, 17, 25, 30)
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
also Robin
is really cool.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Nov 30, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I was about to complain that you can't put Larkin in if you don't put Trammell in
but then I saw you had Trammell. I never thought of Larkin as a future HOF type guy when he was playing, but his career was pretty impressive. He definitely passes the “best guy at his position in his league” test – 12 AS appearances over a 13 year stretch, and the only year he didn’t make it he won the Silver Slugger (he won 9 of those).
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I hate that they can vote for 10 players each year. It should be cut down to 5.
That said, I agree with your ballot James.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
YES:
-Bert Blyleven
- Roberto Alomar
-Tim Raines
-Alan Trammell
LEANING YES:
- Fred McGriff
-Andre Dawson
-Barry Larkin
ON THE FENCE:
- Edgar Martinez
-Mark McGwire
As for Jack Morris, he has the same ERA+ as Jamie Moyer but would need to come out of retirement and go 30-0 to catcher Moyer’s career W-L total. Until he does that, Jack can buy a ticket if he wants to get into my HOF.
I agree with most of the sentaments above...
This is Big Macs first ballot right?
I would have a hard time voting him and Williams in first ballot. I feel that if you have been heavily suspected of steroids, then you should not be a “first ballot” hall of famer.
I think it's Mac's 3rd
I’m hoping now that he’s back coaching he’ll receive enough forgiveness to get in. Any Hall of Fame without Mark McGwire is a sham (at least Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe are officially banned – McGwire is just petty sportswriters colluding)
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
If someone feels that he only has HOF numbers
because of steroids, why is that a sham? It’s not the only way to go, but I think it’s a legitimate view.
Because steroids weren't banned by the MLB when he took them
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
So Babe Ruth should be kept out of the hall of fame for drinking during prohibition?
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
It helped his grission.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions
So you're distinguishing
illegalities by what may or may not have helped one’s stats? I don’t like steroids, I’m glad they’re banned from baseball, I think anyone who takes them now should have two chances, first out for the season, next banned, but the fact is they weren’t prohibited by the sport at the time and if you’re going to say that it was illegal in the United States, you can’t conveniently select which drug is okay and which isn’t. Is using steroids worse than drunk driving like Joba Chamberlain? Is it worse than assaulting your wife like Brett Myers? It’s unfair to punish some people because they broke some records or got an edge on something that wasn’t banned at the time.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Look at my original point
I was never claiming he shouldn’t get voted in as a punishment, but because he used something illegal (he didn’t refuse to “talk about the past” after failing to get immunity because he took some over the counter stuff) to boost his numbers to a HOF level, and therefore I don’t think he’s a HOF player. It’s not a comment on him as a person, and I hope he’s able to be a hitting coach in peace. I think some voters have said they won’t vote for McGwire but will vote for Bonds because he had HOF stats before steroids, and I think that’s a valid argument, and obviously isn’t based on any sort of vendetta.
I have a problem with someone saying
you can do something illegal, but not if it helps you play better. That’s bullshit, it’s either okay to take drugs and play baseball or it’s not.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I'm not sure what point you're arguing with
Good character isn’t a requirement for the HOF, so doing something illegal shouldn’t be relevant, unless it’s the only reason you would be making the HOF in the first place.
What I'm saying is
Steroids were not banned by baseball, they are therefore, at that time, in the same category as heroine, cocaine, marijuana, LSD, etc. I’m also saying in the 1920s, beer was in that same category. So if it’s okay to vote for someone who used coke or heroine or drank beer in the 1920s, then it’s unfair to say someone who took steroids can’t be.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Actually
Arguing is really just a formality with me. I am always correct. Always. On anything and everything, I am correct. What I say is fact. If I say black is white, the white black is.
Hope the sarcasm came through well enough.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Actually, character is a requirement. Sayth the HoF rules for election:
“Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”
I’m not agreeing with anyone; just saying.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's fair to blame people for not voting him in.
Should he get in? Yes. But I also feel like his numbers are a bit inflated, to say the least. That said, he certainly did enough to get in.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
heres mine with no research and terrible justifications
raines & blyleven – because smart people on the internet tell me so
mcgwire – because steroids were a good thing for baseball – he should get his own wing
dale murphy – i know he was a brave but it was when they sucked and my baseball mitt in little league bore his signature
thats all i have and real or fake reason to want to vote for anyone. i could probably be convinced about larkin, trammell and alomar and they would all end up on my ballot if i was actually voting, i think. i would definitely NOT vote for andrew dawson, don mattingly, or jack morris, because screw those guys. i dont think i would vote for lee smith or edgar martinez, because relief pitchers and DHs need to be otherworldly good at their position because they are only half a baseball player.
it would be nice to put tom veile on the ballot too because he plyed with some much heart and passion but it is only his first time and i believe in making players like that wait before letting them into the hall.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
Edgar Martinez WAS otherwordly good at hitting
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Indeed he was
and his shortish career used to bother me more than it does now after I noticed EM is 165th all-time in PAs.
It’s the low (for a HOFer) counting stats that will probably keep him out, imo.
by SeanSchirmer on Nov 29, 2009 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
was he though?
im asking cause i know very little about edgar. i just looked him up on b-r and his his stats do look impressive but his closest comp is will clark. will clark is also very impressive but i dont know if either of them are hall of famers. but i like i said, i havent looked into martinez’ career much at all so im not convinced either way.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
Career .405 wOBA
tied with guys like Hank Aaron, Paul Waner and Duke Snider, one point behind Jeff Bagwell, Jim Thome and Frank Robinson, and one point ahead of Chipper Jones, Charlie Gehringer and Roger Connor.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Joe Pos does a much better job breaking it down than I ever could.
I will say that I think if a DH is a good enough hitter to be a hall of famer, he should make it. True, he doesn’t help his team defensively, but then he doesn’t hurt it either, and if he’s a DH chances are he’d do more of the latter than the former if he were out on the field. Adam Dunn would be a more valuable player to an AL team if he didn’t have to play the field and they could have a good defensive first baseman. I don’t get penalizing guys for taking advantage of the rules of the game (it’s a stupid rule and I hate AL ball, but as long as it’s around they shouldn’t penalize guys for it).
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
yeah i guess it cuts both ways with defense
and a career .405 wOBA is pretty friggin good. i guess if i had a vote and took it seriously id find people in the hall who sucked at D and see what their value would be if you added their defensive liabilities to their offensive assets and see what the total value would be. then i would set the bar a little higher assuming that edgar would suck at D even worse than the worst defender who made the hall. if he still stacks up then i wouldnt specifically not vote for him just because he was a DH. but i would set the offensive bar higher than even the suckiest defender.
as for an example, if the bar 1B Hall of Famers is jeff bagwell’s offensive ability, then edgar woul dhave to significantly out preform bagwell over his career to make up for the lack of D. if the threshold is below jeff bagwell then edgar would have a better shot.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
Imagine Derek Jeter at, I dunno, some position he's underqualified to play
like shortstop, where his defensive value detracts from his offensive value. That might help you get a handle on the situation.
Mine
T. Raines
A. Trammel
B. Blyleven
B. Larkin
E. Martinez
Eh...I don't know if any of these people are actually going to make it in.
Of this list, Blyleven, Larkin, and possibly Alomar probably have the best chances of getting in. McGwire, next year, if all goes well with his job with the Cardinals.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 7:58 PM EST reply actions
Alomar may (and should) go in on the first ballot
He’s got the numbers:
10400 ABs
1508 runs
.300 lifetime average
12 All Star games
10 Gold Gloves
65th all time in runs created…
by SeanSchirmer on Nov 29, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
And that one season with us...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
one and a half...
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
It's all a blur. The brain tends to do that with bad memories.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Here we go.
Alomar
Blyleven
Larkin
Martinez
McGwire
Raines
Trammel
Ventura
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Shane Reynolds
Not Hall caliber by any stretch of the imagination but he had a quietly solid career. 3.35 K/BB and 3.69 FIP.
by James Kannengieser on Nov 29, 2009 8:16 PM EST reply actions
my best friend growing up was a big Astros fan
he loved “Shane the Pain” (I’m not sure if anyone but my friend actually called him that – he tended to come up with random nicknames for people).
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Mark McGwire needs to be in the Hall
McGwire and Sosa saved baseball with their homerun race.
----Warner----
-------13-------
by Scent of a Woman on Nov 29, 2009 8:19 PM EST reply actions
Sosa doesn't deserve to be in
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
your opinion also thinks Jose Reyes "makes his teammates worse"
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
I never said Sosa should be in the Hall
I said McGwire deserves to be in the hall.
----Warner----
-------13-------
by Scent of a Woman on Nov 30, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Oh good lord, they did not "save baseball"
They provided some column inches and some videotape. Maybe you happened to get interested in baseball at the time, but baseball did not need that steroid-fueled contest. Baseball is glorious and everlasting. It contains multitudes, and will live forever.
by SuperT on Nov 30, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
After the strike baseball was in the toilet
McGwire and Sosa rejuvanated the sport. Whether you like it or not, STEROIDS and HOMERUNS saved baseball.
----Warner----
-------13-------
by Scent of a Woman on Nov 30, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
Saved it for stupid people (and/or AL fans)
who can’t figure out that something’s happening unless balls are flying out of the stadium.
Look, this is a cliche, widely repeated, but not true. There was a dip in attendance after the strike. As one would expect. Are you seriously positing that major league baseball would have died out, but for absurd home run numbers?
i'm an NL fan
I went to this game (it was my birthday)
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/gameflash/2009/05/06/27321_gameflash.html
I felt jipped
A "Zeile" for avoiding outs
seriously?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Demand a refund
How dare Johan Santana throw 7 scoreless innings with 10 K’s!
by James Kannengieser on Nov 30, 2009 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
I know what the problem was
look who was leading off. If it were Rollins, the Mets would’ve scored 100 runs.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Stupid kick-ass pitching duels.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Nov 30, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions
You are joking, right?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
Lol, and it was an unearned run, too.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2009 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
I went to that game
It was awesome, although I did spend half the game ranting about how the Mets couldn’t hit Chan Ho.
All you have to do is look at the attendance numbers before the strike and after it to see the influence
----Warner----
-------13-------
by Scent of a Woman on Dec 1, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
i know this game
Correlation implies causation, right!?
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
Mac & Sosa are an entry
I don’t think you can’t say one is in and the other is out. If you’re OK with steroids, they’re both in. If not, they’re both out.
Sosa also corked his bat.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
He also has a .344 career OBP and .878 OPS
He had one unbelievable season, outside of that he had a few excellent seasons. I just don’t think he’s good enough to be in the hall of fame. He hit a ton of home run, which is great, the best possible outcome in an at bat is a home run, but that’s all he did offensively. He didn’t hit for a high average, he didn’t draw walks. Mark McGwire was still valuable if he hit 35 home runs a year, Sosa, even hitting 35 homers wasn’t a great hitter. Now according to Total Zone, Sosa was an excellent outfielder, so that may change my mind a little. I still think as a hitter he’s not good enough to be in the hall of fame.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Geeze...I never realized he's a career .252 hitter.
He’s going to get in- most likely on the first try- when his name is on the ballot, I think. He’s a “name brand”, so to speak. Everyone knows Sammy Sosa, and when they think of him, it’s synonymous with home runs and production (and, geeze, he did put up some ungodly HR and RBI totals). His hitting for average stats, and BB/9 rates aren’t that great, but like we were talking about last week, when evaluating some writers’ MVP votes, he’s a “name brand”, and has enough MVP votes and All-Star appearances over the course of his career for BBWAA members to justify his inclusion in their votes. Lesser players have already gotten in (Jim Rice, I am looking at you), so…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions
.273 avg
.252 was his last year in Texas
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Whoops. Looking in the wrong column. .273 is signifigantly better.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 29, 2009 10:53 PM EST up reply actions
I don't agree
with the line of reasoning that your vote on McGwire has to be consistent with your vote on everyone else who has done anything illegal or possibly taken some PED or had big boobs or anything else. He certainly used steroids. I don’t know if his career ever would have gotten back on track without them. I don’t know how much they inflated his home run totals. I don’t know how much his otherworldly OBPs later in his career were affected by his ability to launch long balls at will (but it’s probably a lot). Those things make me uncomfortable enough about his career, and I’m sure enough that he’s a black eye on the sport, that he’s not on my ballot. I don’t think he necessarily has to be in the same category as every other suspected or possible cheater. And I certainly do not think that whether steroids were banned or not when he played is an issue.
my picks
Lee Smith – he belongs if Gossage and some other RPs are in
Edgar Martinez – simply the best DH ever
Raines – no brainer
Donnie Baseball – not a stat compiler, but for a stretch in the 80’s he was the gold standard.
Borderline:
Alomar
Trammell
Blyleven
Morris
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 30, 2009 11:20 AM EST reply actions
Mattingly doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the hall
And also, Keith was a much much better player.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
not if we're talking about
at each player’s peak. Anyway, this is an argument I’ve been in many times. Keith was a very good player probably for a longer period than DM was, but Mattingly was the best player in baseball for at least a 4 year stretch… he was without question the more dominant player even if he fizzled out quicker.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 30, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Mattingly had a better 4 year stratch than Keith did
but Keith’s four best seasons are better than Mattingly’s 4 best (which are in that stretch from 84-87). Mattingly also has a career OBP of .358 compared to Keith’s .384. Both were very good hitters, but where Keith separated himself was in the field. Both have a million gold gloves and reputations as excellent fielders, but according to Total Zone, over their careers, Keith is the best ever with 113, while it puts Mattingly at 15.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
as I said, I've been
down this road a dozen times before and certainly many people don’t agree with me…. I especially don’t care about such esoterica as “total zone”…. nor I’m sure do Mattingly’s 9 GGs. At his best Keith never hit for near the XBHs that Donnie did in the mid 80’s. Yes, Keith was better at getting on base, but for a 1Bman I think he fell short in the power dept and I think you have to be judged against others at your position in the generation you played in.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 30, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not gonna change yor mind I know that
I just think it’s silly to say one guy is a hall of famer because he had 36 more extra base hits over his career and ignore that one guy’s OBP is pretty significantly higher and was a much better fielder.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I realize that
to a lot of people, career stat totals take precedence over a lot of things, but clearly we both know that Mattingly had a different career arc than a lot of other players… in fact just comparing career totals and ignoring the specific years and you get a pretty favorable comparison to Kirby Puckett, a 1st ballot HOFer. My point is that Mattingly was arguably the best player in the game for 4 – 6 years and then fizzled…. while Keith was never that dominant a player at an offensive-1st position, his mvp year aside.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 30, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, but did Kirby Puckett deserve to be a 1st ballot hall of famer?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
If you're going to put Mattingly into the Hall
based on dominant peak performance, there’s really no excuse for not putting Dale Murphy in, too. And Dale at least played a premium defensive position.
To go a step further, If Mattingly gets in
you’re pretty much saying that David Wright, unless he absolutely falls off a cliff, is a Hall of Famer too. If he plays another 8 years of mediocre to poor baseball, he’ll have better numbers than Mattingly. From 05-08 he was one of the 5 best players in baseball, no doubt. Putting Mattingly in lowers bar for anyone who has a dominant stretch over their careers
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
David Wright WILL BE a Hall of Famer, yes.
And what a good day that will be…
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 30, 2009 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
perhaps he should be...
I haven’t looked at Murphy’s worthiness that closely.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 30, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
oops
that was meant to be a reply to the Dale Murphy suggestion…
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Nov 30, 2009 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
Alomar needs to get in
wearing a Mets cap of course
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
My two sense.....lol
Roberto Alomar- without question a HOF. He was the best middle infielder of the time, and a great hitter. Plus he could spit.
Bert Blyleven – should have been inducted years ago. 60 shutouts? 280+ wins? a crap ton of k’s?……SIXTY SHUTOUTS!!!!! Only 8 people have more shutouts, and those names include Seaver, Mathewson and Walter freakin Johnson.
That’s it.
We will look at Larkin next year.
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eTH2sm73rf3u/610x.jpg[/img]
by Peterman700 on Nov 30, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
My ballot
Roberto Alomar
Bert Blyleven
Barry Larkin
Mark McGwire
Tim Raines
Alan Trammell
Most of these guys are pretty self-explanatory. I am very, very close on Andre Dawson, who was a hell of an outfielder and probably doesn’t get enough respect for that. If he goes in, I won’t be terribly displeased despite a poor career OBA.
I’m also very, very close on Edgar Martinez. There are, in my eyes, two big issues with Edgar’s candidacy. First, he provided zero defensive value, and, in a league/era without a DH, he would have likely accrued quite a lot of negative defensive value. And second, he wasn’t the most durable of players despite being a DH - only a couple times in his career did he top 150 games (adjusting for the strike, of course). I do throw in a little extra credit earlier in his career-it’s not his fault the Mariners were stupid enough to prefer Jim Presley as long as they did. Very close, but I have him down as a no right now.
My ballot
Blyleven
Larkin
Raines
Alomar
McGwire
Segui (not really)
I might also consider voting for Trammell, but I don’t think I want to make the ballot too heavy on underrated middle infielders. Jack Morris and Don Mattingly don’t belong anywhere near the Hall of Fame, at least unless there’s a way the writers can go back and put Keith in too because he was better.
if you won't vote for Edgar
you shouldn’t vote for any pitcher who pitched the majority of his career in the post-DH AL. They’re not real baseball players, either.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Mark McGwire wasn't even a real person, let alone a real baseball player.
Seriously, look at him.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
I know I am late to this discussion and it seems to be over for now until they vote on them,
but I just have to say that until Dick Allen is on the ballot, this whole thing is a sham.
ehhhh
there’s a fairly strong case for Richie Allen, but it certainly isn’t as strong as his straight batting lines would indicate.
WAR-wise, he’s in borderline territory (right between Keith Hernandez and Harmon Killebrew). Playing mostly first base, the dude was almost 100 runs below average defensively. We’re talking about Adam Dunn-like fielding here.
If Edgar does get elected, though, it definitely opens up a possible case for a guy like Allen — he was so bad in the field that if he’d DHed, he would have been more valuable.
"Look at me! I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos!"
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