Notes On Baseball America's Top 10 Mets Prospects
As you undoubtedly saw in the fanshots or somewhere else yesterday, Baseball America released its top 10 prospects list for the Mets, with Adam Rubin reprising as the author of the write-up and subsequent chat. Rubin's article didn't provide much insight into the ranking, but the chat cleared a few things up. Here are the things I found most interesting about the list with relevant quotes:
- Fernando Martinez, the incumbent #1 prospect for two years, drops to #3 after his best season in the minors (.877 OPS in AAA at age 20). He continued to be chronically injured, tearing his meniscus, as mentioned in the article. Rubin said in the chat, "Fernando Martinez has fallen far enough that the Mets talk about going outside for a left fielder for 2010." That makes me worry the Mets are putting stock into his worthless sample-size major-league audition, because I find it hard to believe an injury could hurt his stock so much in a season where he had a break out. I know it was his fourth straight season with an injury, but on the other hand, that means he's gone from injury prone, projectable, with no results to injury prone, projectable, with good results. Rubin later said, when asked about Martinez no longer being untouchable, " His value is so diminished right now. He's certainly not untouchable, but teams are very concerned because he's been unable to stay healthy for four straight years."
- Mejia taking the #1 spot is not surprising, but his being ranked four spots ahead of Holt kind of is. Rubin said this of Holt: "I know a fair amount of the scouts who watch Binghamton regularly during the season. The consensus seems to be that he will be a No. 3 starter in the majors. Here's a report one person gave me on Holt: Good four-seam fastball (88-93 mph, peak 95), curveball (75-78) and changeup (79-81). Command needs work. Wasn't quite the same after missing three weeks with an ankle injury. Has to learn to maintain a consistent release point. He'll add some weight as well which will improve his durability and stamina. Needs to improve from a mental perspective. Often allows situations to get out of hand by compounding problems due to overthrowing. Has to eliminate obsession with strikeouts." Holt supposedly was throwing in the lows 90s peak 98 on his fastball in 2008. When a reader questioned the change in perception later in the chat, Rubin insisted that Holt tops out at 95.
- They still love Wilmer Flores, and put him in rightfield on the "Projected 2013 lineup." I wouldn't read into that much, since they basically just throw whatever prospects they can into these projected lineups; they likely will never happen. Take, for instance, the projected lineup for next year according to the 2006 version of this list:
Catcher Francisco Pena First Base Carlos Delgado Second Base Anderson Hernandez Third Base David Wright Shortstop Jose Reyes Left Field Lastings Milledge Center Field Carlos Beltran Right Field Fernando Martinez No. 1 Starter Mike Pelfrey No. 2 Starter Philip Humber No. 3 Starter John Maine No. 4 Starter Deolis Guerra No. 5 Starter Kevin Mulvey Closer Billy Wagner
Reflects something of a past optimism, as opposed to the 2011 projected lineup, which reflects something of a past delusion:
Catcher Francisco Pena First Base Fernando Martinez Second Base Greg Veloz Third Base David Wright Shortstop Jose Reyes Left Field Lastings Milledge Center Field Carlos Gomez Right Field Carlos Beltran No. 1 Starter John Maine No. 2 Starter Oliver Perez No. 3 Starter Mike Pelfrey No. 4 Starter Deolis Guerra No. 5 Starter Kevin Mulvey Closer Eddie Kunz
That outfield is awesome, but that pitching staff might be the worst-conceived in history. Also note them sticking Fernando Martinez somewhere, a la Wilmer. I also find it interesting that they projected a healthy Carlos Beltran to be in right field by 2011, but they this year, they put Carlos Beltran with irreparable bone-on-bone knee injuries in CF in 2013.
- Speaking of Francisco Pena, apparently he will be left off the top 30 prospects list, per Rubin. Not even Mark and I did that in our ongoing top-26, and I really dislike Francisco Pena as a prospect.
- Kirk Niewenhuis got ranked best defensive outfielder, which is encouraging, since the biggest question about his abilities are related to his fielding, not his hitting. Rubin passed along this scouting report: "He will garner comparisons to Curtis Granderson in terms of his position and ability to fill up the stat sheet in many offensive categories. Good opposite field power and a plus overall hitter. Great contact guy. Batted in the leadoff spot at the end of the season with St. Lucie and Binghamton and produced many multi-hit games. Figures to be a 20-20 guy. Good range in center and an average to slightly above average major-league arm." He also cited a scout that compared his mentality to Kirk Gibson's. That's high praise, for a guy that didn't crack the top 10.
- Nate Vineyard retired.
- Juan Urbina made the top-10 without throwing a professional pitch. Rubin justified ranking him ahead of the more established Jeurys Familia and Kyle Allen, thusly: The Mets spent $1.2 million on Urbina because they believe he's a top-10-caliber prospect. His fastball averages 88-89 mph, with a peak of 91 mph, but he has a clean delivery. Team officials believe the velocity will climb a little as he gets instruction, but that's fine for a lefthander. Familia throws from the opposite side and considerably harder and doesn't have a clean delivery. Allen also is righthanded." I nominate "Allen also is righthanded" to be the go-to non-sequitur at Amazin' Avenue.
- The Mets won't push prospects anymore with Tony B gone.
- Robbie Shields has grission. Rubin called him the baseball equivalent of a "gym rat," which is a new one.
- Jordany Valdespin was named best athlete. He put up good numbers last year in Savannah, but didn't get promoted, so I assumed he must be a bad athlete or something. Guess not.
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"The Mets won't push prospects anymore with Tony B gone. "
The most encouraging part of this piece.
Oh, the butcher and the baker and the people on the street: wheredotheygo?!?!?
As long as we keep them around, and not deal them, anyway
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 7, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
The Fernando Martinez commentary is really frustrating.
Basically, Rubin is detailing a scenario where other teams are angling to buy low on Fernando. Sad part is that the Mets are just stupid enough to buy into it.
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
I'm not sure about that
Fernando Martinez seems to be one of Omar’s “guys”, as a player. Just like, seemingly, Lastings Milledge was. And, as we all know, we kept Lastings when deals that could possibly net some good players were offered.
As a side note, does anyone find it odd that I had a dream last night in which Lastings Milledge went on a murder spree?
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 7, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
What kind of return did the Mets get for Lastings Milledge?
Not much of one. What did Jim Bowden eventually do with Milledge? HE BOUGHT LOW. You’re essentially supporting my point.
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
by All Shook Down on Nov 9, 2009 8:26 AM EST up reply actions
Re: Fernando
He’s young, yes. He had a 45 game "breakout", yes. But it’s tough to ignore the injuries. Maybe it’s bad luck and it will pass but I see nothing wrong with dropping him down on this list. It’s hard to be really excited about him right now, which I know is blasphemy for some (most?) here but whatever. I’m not hoping for a trade or any other nonsense Rubin is talking about but I think we all assumed they’d be going outside the organization for a left fielder in 2010, that is not a surprise at all.
by James Kannengieser on Nov 7, 2009 10:48 AM EST reply actions
Reyes used to be injury prone when he was very young
Then he went all iron man on us from 2005-2008. Let’s keep an open mind of Fernando Martinez. He’s 20 years old. Let’s wait to pass judgment on him until he’s at least 24.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Nov 7, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not passing judgment or writing him off at all
I just don’t see a problem with dropping him from the #1 prospect spot.
by James Kannengieser on Nov 7, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
OK
I just saw “breakout” in quotes and “it’s hard to be really excited about him right now” and it looks like you’re seriously down on the guy.
Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.
by Greenpoint Ian on Nov 7, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Break his legs!
We’ll strap him to a chair, hold his eyes open, and dilate his pupils, Clockwork Orange style, so every time he hears Beethoven’s Ninth he’ll be overcome with excitement regarding Fernando Martinez.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 7, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd
Just watched 2001 Space Odyssey again recently. Kubrick is a genius.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
I just saw Dr. Strangelove for the first time
It was amazing, and very funny. I have 2001 recorded, but I really want to see it in HD, same with Clockwork Orange.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
That's what I'm waiting for
I have HDNet Movies channel so it’s only a matter of time. Today they had 2010 on but they’re not playing 2001 for at least the next two weeks. I’ve kind of been spoiled I guess by all the high def that’s available. I had Bridge on the River Kwai recorded for a few weeks from TCM and as I was getting ready to watch it, I just took a look to see if it’d be on HDNet anytime soon, I saw it on like November 18 or something, so I deleted the one I had and set to record the high def one. How long until everything will be in HD? Standard def just don’t cut it no more, especially on an LCD or Plasma.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Beethoven's Ninth Second Movement
is pure awesomeness. My favorite classical piece that I’ve heard.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I still see him at 1
But I understand dropping him to 2. 3 behind Flores however, I find ridiculous.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Aye me droogie
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 8, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Sure
Put Wilmer 3rd and Fernando 2nd, doesn’t really matter to me. Not like Fernando was dropped from the top 10 or something. I will now return to my status as “lurker” in the prospect discussion threads.
by James Kannengieser on Nov 7, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
+1
i agree w/ you here. though we always knew he was somewhat injury prone, we could always console ourselves since it was seemingly bad luck or unrelated injuries.
however, i think this year pushes him past that threshold where his body’s ability to hold up over the rigors of a baseball season are now THE major concern for him. as much if not more so than his ability to hit, field, run, etc. because you can’t do all those things if you’re not healthy right?
and despite the fact that his performance continues to improve which is definitely a good sign, the injury prone tag can be so damning in terms of a players long term prospects that i feel you’ve got to drop him down the top 10. below wilmer? i wouldn’t but i won’t argue w/ those who do.
by Rob Castellano on Nov 7, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Sokojoe pointed out in the other thread
Nieuwenhuis was rated at -25 TZ/150. Blech. Rubin’s mentioning him as best outfielder in the system speaks to his athleticism, but also the complete dearth of upper level outfielders in the system.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Nov 7, 2009 12:31 PM EST reply actions
Yeah
Manny Garcia is probably the best defensive outfielder but he’s not nobody’s idea of a prospect.
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
by All Shook Down on Nov 7, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
cecilliani
i gotta imagine darrell cecilliani will be one of the better fielding outfielders coming up through the minors by next year. probably zeerika hall too.
by Rob Castellano on Nov 7, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's like the gold glove
there’s a threshold for how much of a bat you have to have to be considered “best outfielder” because otherwise scouts won’t even pay attention to you.
Yup, I agree.
Also, I see the recognition as more of Rubin’s way of not excluding Nieu from the entire list because he deserves to be mentioned.
+1
thats the first thing i thought too
by Rob Castellano on Nov 8, 2009 12:02 AM EST up reply actions
Whoa...
Imagine a starting rotation of Mike Pelfrey, Philip Humber, John Maine, Deolis Guerra, Kevin Mulvey. We’d be giving the Nats a real run for their money.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 7, 2009 3:51 PM EST reply actions
Question!
Johnny B (NYC): Who are the top 5 RHP in the Mets Minor League system?
Rubin: Pearl Jam
Billy Chapel: "I can always tell when I'm in New York."
Catcher Francisco Pena
First Base Fernando Martinez
Second Base Greg Veloz
Third Base David Wright
Shortstop Jose Reyes
Left Field Lastings Milledge
Center Field Carlos Gomez
Right Field Carlos Beltran
No. 1 Starter John Maine
No. 2 Starter Oliver Perez
No. 3 Starter Mike Pelfrey
No. 4 Starter Deolis Guerra
No. 5 Starter Kevin Mulvey
Closer Eddie Kunz
This would hurt so much, the Mets might have to move to space, where nobody can hear you scream!
That outfield is awesome, but that pitching staff might be the worst-conceived in history.
No kidding! And correction – We’d be giving the Pirates a real run for their money. The Nats will NOT be the worst team next year, I can almost assure you. They have WAY too much talent to remain in the sewage of MLBland. (FYI, people who work in the sewers actually do get paid a considerable amount of money.)
Speaking of Francisco Pena, apparently he will be left off the top 30 prospects list, per Rubin. Not even Mark and I did that in our ongoing top-26, and I really dislike Francisco Pena as a prospect.
Did you know? Francisco Pena doesn’t even have a Wikipedia page! Honestly, though not based on that fact, I don’t think he’ll make it very far at this point. He’s fallen far too far.
Nate Vineyard retired.
Oh god, that’s terrible! I say this from his point of view, of course.
The Mets spent $1.2 million on Urbina because they believe he’s a top-10-caliber prospect.
Hmmm… reading between the lines, I have plenty of reasons to be skeptical. The Mets in the last 10 years have “believed” many things that were either fairy tales or a denial of the truth. Among those on the list (since 2000), Billy Traber, Bobby Keppel, Lenny DiNardo, Matthew Durkin, Victor Zambrano (keep your eyes in their sockets), Eddie Kunz… and Nathan Vineyard. The 2008 draft is definitely the best draft the Mets have had in the third millenium A.D.
The Mets won’t push prospects anymore with Tony B gone.
THANK. ALMIGHTY. GOD. That would include pushing them out to places like Minnesota.
Jordany Valdespin was named best athlete. He put up good numbers last year in Savannah, but didn’t get promoted, so I assumed he must be a bad athlete or something. Guess not.
Well, Tiger Woods is a great athlete too, no? Could he have thrived as a baseball player? I’m certainly not saying no, but…
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
It was a close game
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2009_11_07_afewin_afwwin_1
WE LIKE IKE!
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
Yes we do
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Nov 8, 2009 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Has anybody read any scouting on Juan Urbina?
Why is he considered better than Steven Matz, who is also young, throws just as hard or harder, is also left-handed and has flashed a hard curve?
I don’t mean to sound snarky. I’m actually asking!
Urbina's only 16.
His age is certain, something scouts wonder about with Latin American prospects. I think his pedigree and projectibility give him the nod over Matz.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
His pedigree is impressive
If he inherited his father’s temper, we’d have ourselves a real gangsta.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Nov 10, 2009 2:31 AM EST up reply actions

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