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Rule 5 Applesauce - Rangers Sign Harden, Worrying About Pelfrey, Boras Speaks And Twitter Is Still Ridiculous

Former Rule 5 picks include Dan Uggla and our own Johan Santana, so you never know what gems might be found.

Star-divide

Meet the Mets

The Mets pick 7th in today's Rule 5 Draft.  Check out Mark's list of potential picks from a few weeks back.  MLBTradeRumors also offers up a preview.

Scott Boras says the Mets have the financial resources to sign any player they choose.  He's probably right.  The organization's real problem is determining which players to sign.

John Harper recently perpetuated the myth that Mike Pelfrey took a major step backwards in 2009, despite evidence that suggests otherwise.  Ted Berg and Matt Cerrone weigh in on the topic.

Metstradamus riffs on the debunked Pat Burrell rumor and the possibility of signing Elmer Dessens.  This had me laughing:

Funny how neither Dessens, Blanco, Pedro Martinez, Carlos Baerga, Mackey Sasser, nor anybody else with "intangibles" needed to be in the room to mentor Oliver when he signed that $36 million contract. Weird, huh?

Patrick Flood offers up his take on the inevitable Bengie Molina/Mets relationship.

Mets Police comments on the Sports Illustrated All-Decade team, which Carlos Beltran and Johan Santana were named too.  MP also implies he would rather have Wally Backman on his team instead of Jeff Kent due to their respective effects on team chemistry.  I'll take the probable Hall of Famer.

Around the NL East

Jayson Stark tweets that the Braves are only asking for prospects in return for Derek Lowe.

The Marlins traded Matt Lindstrom to the Astros for two minor leaguers and a PTBNL.

Federal Baseball wraps up the Nationals activity at the winter meetings.

The Good Phight is holding out hope for a Roy Halladay trade.  Halladay, Lee and Hamels would be frightening and probably unstoppable.

Around MLB

The Royals offered Jason Kendall a two year contract.  Umm, what?

The Mariners signed Corey Patterson to a minor league deal.  Walkoff Walk has some advice for M's manager Don Wakamatsu regarding Patterson.

The Astros signed Brandon Lyon for three years, $15 million.  Seems a bit excessive.

Mike Cameron's agent says his client has a special place in his heart for Seattle.  Too bad the Mariners already have an awesome center fielder.

The Rangers signed Rich Harden and traded Kevin Millwood to the Orioles for Chris Ray.  Evan Brunell at The Hardball Times weighs in.

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Lyon deal

I like Lyon a lot but holy crap! That’s a lot of freaking money for the guy.

If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.

by meigs1414 on Dec 10, 2009 8:16 AM EST reply actions  

Patrick Flood offers up his take on the inevitable Bengie Molina/Mets relationship.

Oh, the horror… I cringe, as the slowest runner in all of baseball induces double-play traffic jams (0.285 OBP last year was 2nd lowest, BTW) and probably gets injured, as the injury-risk Cinderblock is at the mercy of a Mets medical staff.

“Bengie Molina in a coma, after Mets anasthesiologist commits fatal error during kneecap-replacement surgery”

Bengie Molina, if you sign a contract with the Mets, make sure you sign a will also!

"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."

- Mr. B.V. Incognito

by sj10689 on Dec 10, 2009 8:57 AM EST reply actions  

Mets select Carlos Monsterios in Rule 5 Draft

23 year-old pitcher from the Philies system. Check out stats. Doesn’t seem that exciting, based on solely on past statistical performance.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2009 9:11 AM EST reply actions  

BTW

Monsterios has pitched only 7 innings in AA, nothing in AAA. The Mets really think he’s going to be on their 25 man roster the entire year? And he’s a right-handed pitcher. Hmmm.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2009 9:16 AM EST up reply actions  

I like the idea

Get him for Spring Training, have him work with our training staff, and send him back to the Phillies.

by Mount17 on Dec 10, 2009 9:18 AM EST up reply actions  

sign him just for the name

if a prospect was named Carl Rivermonster, it would be a no brainer.

by hotspur on Dec 10, 2009 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Jeez

this seems like a complete waste of a pick.

by deadspy3 on Dec 10, 2009 10:01 AM EST up reply actions  

what a disappointment

with so many useful/cheap players out there and omar didn’t feel at all tempted to try to fill out the pen or the bench.

i know its not the end of the world because it is just the rule 5 but to me any gm who has that attitude is doing their team a disservice by ignoring a very creative and very cst effective way of bolstering a roster for the short and long term. meaning that the last shreds of faith i had in omar are quickly disintegrating.

and even though its just the rule 5 draft, at this point the way omar drafts we’ve got a better shot to build a team through rule 5 picks than through the standard draft.

by Rob Castellano on Dec 10, 2009 11:01 AM EST up reply actions  

i think a team that wants to compete

has very little to gain in the rule 5 pick.

Most teams have gotten the idea that you have to protect your top guys. The pieces left are generally a few years from being productive.

To just give a roster spot to one of these guys is a stretch. If we were a team in rebuilding mode… I think the rule 5 draft is much more valuable.

the players we all bring up (Santana, Uggla, Flores) were all taken by teams that were not in the hunt for the playoffs.

by gbaked on Dec 10, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

darren o'day

mets drafted him in the rule 5 draft last year. let him go two weeks into the season. he pitched very well for angels the rest of the season. so yes, useful players can be found.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2009 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

they can be

but not always are.

whatever… i would have liked for them to grab someone, but it is not the end of the world.

It feels like you are hating just to hate.

by gbaked on Dec 10, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

no roster move is 100% guaranteed to be successful

that doesn’t mean omar should just do nothing. no, it’s not the end of the world, but it’s another indication that omar is not the best GM on the planet.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions  

there is ALWAYS someone out there

every year there is at least 1 productive player who comes out of the draft so to not pick at all is a waste when it costs almost nothing.

and if this were it, i’d lay off but its more along the lines of the straw breaking the camels back.

omar has shown his blatant lack of understanding and imagination for years now, most recently w/ the billy wagner debacle where the sox swindled us out of 2 first round picks for a quad-A player. last season he actually uncovered a gem in o’day and dropped him for nothing. you’d think he would want another shot at acquiring a top 10 middle reliever but no, he learned nothing from that experience. its more the growing realization that omar really isn’t that good at his job that has me so disappointed about this.

by Rob Castellano on Dec 10, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

This

Right now I need a little signal from the Mets that they have even the tiniest clue what this game “baseball” is all about. Not much, but a little token. All we have had so far this offseason, after a dreadful season, are signs that nothing will get better. Missed opportunities, badly-read situations, overpriced backups, bargains/trades not attempted. Bah.

by deadspy3 on Dec 10, 2009 11:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Yup, most of the guys we talked about were all on the board still

Including your guy Rodriguez, position guys like Dorn and Garner who would not have been huge return risks, and decent pen guys like Wright.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 10, 2009 12:29 PM EST up reply actions  

so what, you can't even try?

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Dec 10, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Metsblog says

he was just traded to the dodgers for some cash.

shrewd move omar…

by gbaked on Dec 10, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions  

Knowing Omar...

He probably received less than $50,000 for the pitcher.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions  

I literally cannot believe this

Surely we are not that strapped for cash, really!?

by deadspy3 on Dec 10, 2009 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

maybe the dodgers reached out and said

if you draft this guy we will buy him off you (maybe someone after mets/before dodgers wanted him).

how is this a big deal? It seems like a way to get a little extra cash and take a prospect away from one of your biggest rivals.

by gbaked on Dec 10, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah thats fine

but it’s a total waste of the Rule V draft! The marginal value of an (essentially) free and contributive player must be higher than a few tens of thousands of dollars in return.

by deadspy3 on Dec 10, 2009 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Metsblog is also reporting

that a bunch of teams were interested in him.

Since we have been in discussions with the dodgers on a number of trades, this may have just been a bit of goodwill from omar to LA.

by gbaked on Dec 10, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions  

I find it hard to believe that so many teams were interested in this pitcher

based solely on his winter pitching in Venezuela. He’s been in the minors for four years, and all of a sudden he’s a hot commodity based on a handful of innings in winter ball?

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions  

who cares

the rumor was enough to get the mets some extra cash from the dodgers.

by gbaked on Dec 10, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions  

that's insignificant

omar has to pay $50,000 to draft Monasterios. if he gets back $200,000 (and i think that’s being generous), he’s made $150,000. $150,000 means nothing to a team with a $130+ million payroll. it’s not going to help him sign lackey or holliday.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2009 11:07 AM EST up reply actions  

not getting hurt doesn't improve the team

omar should be using every tool he has to improve the team. not sure he did that today in the draft.

by englishgrey on Dec 10, 2009 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

What I was (clumsily) trying to say before is that $150,000 is way less valuable than a draftee who actually sticks on the roster, as a few of these guys projected to possibly do, even for a couple of months. And Omar, the biggest sucker in all of baseball, does not need to be giving goodwill to anyone!

by deadspy3 on Dec 10, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

It does hurt when you waste an oppurtunity

to improve a team FULL of holes. it’s not like we have a stacked roster there’s plenty of places to add someone to help.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions  

But you know what also wouldn't have hurt?

Acquiring a player who could make the team as a bench or bullpen player next year. That would have actually helped.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Dec 10, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

And if that many teams were interested?

Then there must be something too him right? Wouldn’t it make more sense for a team full of holes to keep him?

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Right

I just can’t see how this adds up

by deadspy3 on Dec 10, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's just be clear

that the SI All-Decade Team is by Joe Posnanski, so as not to lump it together with the football All-Decade Team by Peter King, which has Aaron Smith at DE.

by Mount17 on Dec 10, 2009 9:14 AM EST reply actions  

what?

Smith over Strahan? please.

by JoshNY on Dec 10, 2009 9:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Hating

Aaron Smith is unstoppable in the 3-4.

well unstoppable by everything but injuries.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

unstobbale, huh?

as unstoppable as the guy who set the single-season sack record (and, ok, the last one was a gift – he still would have the 2nd most sacks w/o it). As unstoppable as the guy who is 5th on the all-time sack list? As unstoppable as the guy who, in two less seasons had 69 more tackles?

Also, if you want to look at it from a market perspective, a good 3-4 Defensive End is much easier to find than a good 4-3 Defensive End. According to former GM Randy Mueller:

the 3-4 defensive end is easier to identify and find when it comes to scouting and acquiring personnel," while 4-3 DEs "are rare and hard to find and therefore very expensive to keep. There is no question that speed pass rushers are very much an impact position on the football field and their cap numbers reflect that. On the other hand, 3-4 defensive ends can be found easier and are much less expensive when it comes to ‘cap dollars

Sorry – Aaron Smith is really good. Michael Strahan is an all-time great. No way should Smith have made that team over Stray.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Can Strahan play outside the 4-3?

Cause pretty much everyone King picked could play in a 4-3 or 3-4. Plus that’s only one gms opinion, if the discussion were about baseball would you trust just one gm to give you an explanation of the market, considering that one gm could easily be Colletti, or Sabean, or Minaya, or Wade? Plus Smith is considered the best d-end in the league in a defense, the 3-4, that’s pretty much owned the NFL this decade/revolutionized it the last 2. Which, I could be giving King to much credit, could factor into the decision since Smith’s skill set allows for a variety of defensive schemes, 4-3 end/under dt, 3-4 end, 3-3-5 end/dt, where as Strahan as far as I know is strictly a 4-3 end, and King specifically mentioned he didn’t want to put just the best players but the best players to make a team, he also mentioned the Vrabel’s versatility to play in a variety of schemes and spots along a linebacking core as a reason for him being picked. Which makes sense given the d-line he’s chosen, Taylor can and has play olb in a 3-4, the bigger Williams can play nt and the smaller one DE in a 3-4. So i really don’t think looking at it as Smith over Strahan is even the correct way to look at it, it seems more like Strahan wouldn’t have made it regardless.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm reasonably sure Strahan could have played 3-4 end if he'd been on a 3-4 team

or at least he’d have been able to switch to 3-4 linebacker. He was probably the most athletic DE since Bruce Smith, and he was just as good against the run as he was against the pass, so I don’t think he would have had too much problem switching positions. Strahan in the early part of the decade was an absolute beast. Smith’s defensive coordinator might say he’s unblockable, but then I’m sure you could find a nice quote from a Raiders coach about JaMarcus Russell, so…

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm 100% certain that there is 0 chance Strahan could never ever ever be a 3-4 end

Unless you think he could have easily packed on another 35-50 pounds. Whether he could be a 3-4 olb I have no idea. Plus it’s not just Smith’s defensive coordinator, general consensus would say, since Richard Seymour fell apart because of injuries, that Aaron Smith is the best 3-4 DE end in the league and probably neck and neck with Seymour, possibly getting the nod because Seymours career unraveled quicker though Seymour IMO was better at his peak, for best 3-4 end this decade. I really think you guys are underrating the importance/difficulty of 3-4 ends. They get overlooked because they don’t put up the pretty sack numbers but 3-4 ends are probably the hardest position to fill in the 3-4. The only position that may be harder is nt and that’s only because so many guys big enough to handle the position have a crapton of weight control issues and health problems.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

There's also the fact that where Strahan could play in a 3-4

is speculation and like he said he wasn’t just picking the best players but putting together what he considered to be the best team. Smith has played in 3-4 and 4-3 formations and been expected to play end and under tackle, Taylor has played olb and end in a 3-4 and 4-3 respectively, so there’s no speculation involved. So it could also be that he went with players he was certain would fit his idea for the team.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

when did Smith play in a 4-3?

and was he any good?

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Well he was a 4-3 under tackle in college

But I didn’t mean he played in a pure 4-3. The Steelers they mix in 4-3 packages, where he plays under tackle, and 3-3-5 packages where he plays in the middle pass rushing tackle, where Hampton leaves the field. As well as some formations where he’s in the middle as only player with his hands down. And yes he’s a beast which is why he’s widely considered, since Seymours breakdown who IMO at his best was the best end regardless of position in the league, the best 3-4 end in the league.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh, in college.

Ok.
Yeah, ok.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Dec 10, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Can you read?

Or do you just go into threads and make irrelevant comments with no understanding of the topic being discussed? The steelers frequently use 4-3 sets, they don’t run a pure 3-4. not to mention he plays tackle in sets with only 3 down linemen, as well as in sets where he’s the only down-linemen. Which if you had read anything you would know was the point.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess then

a problem I would have with King is that if I was drafting a 4-3 I would go with Strahan, and for a 3-4 I would go with Smith, and he is saying he’s trying to get the best team but merging the two schemes (he implies Strahan would be the pick over Taylor as a career matchup) which I don’t think would be optimal in picking a team.

by Mount17 on Dec 10, 2009 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think he's merging the schemes

But picking players who can/have played in either. If think it’s more likely he’d run a hybrid sort of defense, which plenty of teams run in reality.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

But

whatever scheme he would be in at any given time, he wouldn’t have the optimum players. He doesn’t have the best players for a 4-3, and I’m guessing that you would get the best 3-4 by taking the best 3 tackles in the game (just as he takes two LTs on his offensive line). Am I wrong about that (don’t have a great deal of knowledge of the intricacies of the 3-4)?

by Mount17 on Dec 10, 2009 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really

A lot of defensive tackles couldn’t play on a 3-4 d-line, even some of the great ones, it’s not really the same as the difference between left tackles and right tackles it’s a completely different skill set often, which is why players like Seymour or Aaron Smith, Luis Castillo is another similar player who can play down tackle and end are so rare. And I’m not really sure what you mean about optimum players the point of the hyrbid is getting players that can play at high levels at either positions. I don’t mean hybrid like one game you run a 4-3 one game you run a 3-4, it means depending on the down and situation you switch personnel and different fronts. It’s what the Ravens, Steelers, Pats, and to a lesser extent the Chargers and a few other teams, do all the time.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure

when you have a full roster and are switching people in and out.

by Mount17 on Dec 10, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

No it's not usually like 10 people or anything

It usually is the same players just switching positions. Like Ngata, on the Ravens going from big DT outside to DE. Or Merriman coming up and putting his hands down and Luis Castillo sliding inside or Merriman standing up and Castillo moving to 5 technique. Or with the steelers Hampton comes off the field, Keisel stands up, Lawrence Timmons, the WILB moves back to big safety. Which is why players like Smith or Taylor who can play multiple positions in different schemes are so valuable. It’s the same starters they just have the skill set that allows them to move around. No team is walking around going like ten deep on their defense to be able to switch formations they just find 4-5 players versatile enough to play in a 3-4 front or a 4-3 front.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Also as far as the ease of finding 3-4 ends

Couldn’t that also be because, until the last few years, only a handful of teams, like 4-5 that I can think of, even ran 3-4s? And everyone else was running 4-3s? If you notice in the last few drafts 3-4 ends, like Adam Carricker, although he ended up going to a 4-3 team, and Tyson Jackson, have shot up draft boards, as well as 3-4 OLBS who teams used to find off scrap heaps. So rather than 3-4 ends just being easier to find I’d imagine it’s just that until recently there were just so many more teams running 4-3s. Not because of one position having an easier skill-set. Guys who could start for us who use to fall to like the 2nd and 3rd rounds or even, second day, are suddenly top ten picks. Tyson Jackson being a prime example since there was pretty much no other position for him other than a 3-4 end.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the point though

is that 3-4 DE’s tend to be less athletic than 4-3 DE’s, and overall less important in the grand scheme of things. The 3-4 ends are really just there to take up blocks and allow the LB’s to get to the QB, while it’s the NT who’s responsible for stuffing the run. In the 4-3 the DE’s are supposed to shed blocks on their own and get to the QB. That, IMO, is a much more difficult task, which explains why they make more money and are harder to find.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Most 3-4 ends are also expected to be able to play in multiple schemes/formations

The Pats invested in Seymour, until he fell apart, because he could play the end position or under tackle in different formations. Plus I think the fact that now that more teams are switching to 3-4s 3-4 ends are shooting up draft boards kind of debunks the idea that their easier to find. Most people who study/really understand the 3-4 would say the olbs are the easiest position to fill and the ends are the most important and hardest to find.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Plus there's the fact

That as great of a player as he was he doesn’t really exemplify the defensive trends of this decade where pure 4-3s are being fazed out and more emphasis is being placed on versatility and the ability to switch between defensive fronts. Whether he could or couldn’t fit into these types of defensive isn’t really relevant, since he was never asked too and the team was put together to represent this decade. This is kind of a poor analogy but I’d say Strahan is sort of part of the old guard, where as a guy like Tuck, who is a terror at DE or under tackle, is more of an example of the new/current era of defenses.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 5:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Err I used Tuck

Just since I know he’s a player most fans in NY are familiar with.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

This conversation got a bit sidetracked

but, I think it should be pointed out that Strahan won the Super Bowl his last season playing for a defense that mixed things up and had a pretty versatile package. He was the anchor, and I have to think that they could have done even more exotic schemes with 2002 Strahan at the peak of his abilities.

But that’s all sorta besides the point – when you name an “all-decade team,” my thought is that you should be taking the best/most dominant players at each position. Maybe Smith is a more versatile player than Strahan, but then Vince Young is a more versatile QB than Peyton Manning. From 2000-2004, Strahan was the most dominant DE in the NFL, and from ‘05-’07 he was still pretty darn good when he was on the field.

An Eagles fan commented on the Giants blog that he could put together a team of players that King didn’t pick that would almost definitely be a better team than King’s, and I tend to agree with him. You can have your fancy schemes, I’ll put together a 4-3 with Strahan, Peppers, Sapp, and maybe Bryant Young up front and have Peyton running for his life the whole game.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2009 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

When has a 4-3 ever had Peyton running for his life?

If you look at the teams Peyton has historically struggled against, in the post-season and in the regular season, they’ve all run 3-4s.

Plus I think the idea of the 3-4 being a fancy scheme is kind of ridiculous, if anything 4-3 DEs get overrated because they put up sack numbers where as 3-4 DES don’t have a fancy stat to get them heralded.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

that's not an ordinary 4-3 though

that’s a quarterback killing 4-3. And I’m not calling the 3-4 a fancy scheme, I’m saying moving players around like you’re proposing as the reason Smith should be on the team is fancy.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see how it's fancy

Like you said earlier it’s no different than the defense the giants use to get to win the superbowl. It’s just the evolution of defense, was it fancy when Bill Parcells decided to play Lawrence Taylor standing up, or just smart? If you have a player with a unique skill set shouldn’t you take advantage of it?

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Also I'm not saying that's why Smith should be on the team

I’m saying that’s why 3-4 end is a lot more difficult, and ends like Smith/Seymour/Castillo are a lot rarer more talented, than you seem to think.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not denying their talent

or that what they do isn’t difficult. I just don’t think their versatility is more important than Strahan’s awesomeness as a DE. I think Strahan had a bigger impact on the football field than any of those guys. I’ll give you that Strahan’s peak was really from like ‘97-’03, so it straddles decades, and maybe over the whole of this decade Seymour had a bigger impact on the field, but Stray was still awesome even after his peak.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 11, 2009 1:38 AM EST up reply actions  

What I'm saying is I think you underrated how awesome they were at DE

And how much of an impact they have despite not putting up a fancy stat. How do you think the Steelers/Pats constantly change our OLBS yet for so many years managed to stay on the top of sack charts. It wasn’t cause they were finding awesome OLBs it was because of guys like Seymour/Smith. 3-4 DEs are like the defensive versions of LTs, they basically have the hardest job and do all the work and get none of the glory.

by Gina on Dec 11, 2009 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Also there are plenty of people who would say

That from 2000-2004/2005 Richard Seymour was the most dominant defensive end/player i the league.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe he's unstoppable

But who are opponents worried more about stopping, him or the Steelers’ OLBs?

by Mount17 on Dec 10, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

The steelers olbs are useless without him

Any olb is useless without an end, that’s why the smarter 3-4 teams, like the Pats and Steelers, let OLBS walk constantly without even thinking about it and and rarely pick them up in free agency usually only invest in OLBs that can play multiple positions along the 3-4 linebacking core.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

If it's so easy to do

I’m sure Strahan could do it.

by Mount17 on Dec 10, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe he could

In which cause I can understand an argument of him over Taylor, but it has nothing to do with whether he would belong over Smith.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

No wonder the list made sense

As I was reading this, I was thinking that it was way too well-thought out and analytical for SI. Hell, it even mentioned Jeter being not so great defensively. Love that JoPo.

by dcmetsfan on Dec 10, 2009 9:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah it was a good list...

Only problem I have is Torre as manager. He makes some bad decisions (Belliard over Hudson being the most recent) and any moron could make the playoffs with the teams he has had this decade. Posnanski probably only put him there so he wouldn’t get crucified.

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 10, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

At this point

I am beginning to see the appeal of Derek Lowe…

by deadspy3 on Dec 10, 2009 9:33 AM EST reply actions  

How much cash was he traded for?

Enough for them to get over their “sticker shock”?

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 11:06 AM EST reply actions  

If he sticks in LA I'm all for it.

I just love seeing the Phillies lose guys.

"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green

by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 10, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

i'm shocked

that we didn’t make a bigger play for kevin millwood. he was a pure salary dump; chris ray looks to be on his way out of baseball, we definitely could have matched that offer whether it was stokes or sean green or even tobi stoner. and millwood has only got 1 yr left on his contract for $12M. it would have been the perfect solution.

by Rob Castellano on Dec 10, 2009 11:23 AM EST reply actions  

The ship is sinking before it even left the dock...

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 10, 2009 12:24 PM EST reply actions  

Well it's hard to be optimistic

But lets at least wait till Jan or so before we start jumping ship. Omar COULD surprise us. Or someone could surprise us. There’s still some options to be had, personally I’m holding out hope for Harang, though if he gets moved elsewhere it will be hard to stay optimistic.

by Gina on Dec 10, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not even the pessimistic type.

In August of last year, I was the one yelling at everyone (not here, elsewhere) that the Phillies were going to lose ten games, and that we were going to win ten games (negating our difference in the standings), and that we had a shot for the division. All we needed to do was outplay them. It’s funny in retrospect, but…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 10, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

yea, I'm usually an optimist too

but the last few years and now the way this offseason looks to be shaping up have really shook my core. I no longer believe in the Mets – unless you count my belief that they will manage to f* up pretty much everything they decide to do.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 10, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that sums things up nicely.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 10, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Someone could surprise Omar

That is more likely. “Hey Omar, you just traded us Santana and Beltran for Juan Pierre, you doofus” – “Whaaaaaat? I am shocked. How did I let this occur?”

by deadspy3 on Dec 10, 2009 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

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