Please, no Lackey, Piniero or Molina
by myrick4gm on Dec 13, 2009 1:35 AM EST
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If Lackey and Piniero are the best guys out there to bid for, why not pony up for Halladay? Bengie Molina is not the answer, either. Maine and Perez are better options than Piniero. Hell, Gil Meche is, too. If you sign Piniero, you'll wish Steve Trachsel was here, (or Mike Torrez). Lackey is an expensive Craig Swan. Molina is better on a small market team. Dioner Navarro is a better option, as he would compliment Blanco, and get to torch the Yankees. If only Tom Hausman was available.
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A few things...
First off, Swan was a good pitcher, just like Lackey is so I’m not sure what your point for that was
Second, Halladay will not only require a gutting of our farm system, but it will also require a massive extension, which is not smart for a 33 year old pitcher.
Third, Piniero had a 3.27 FIP last year which was far better than either Perez’s or Maines. Oh, and even if he smoked pot before every start, he’d still be a better pitcher than Trashcan.
I do agree on Navarro over Molina though
OK
My mistake on Swan- you’re right, he was pretty good, better than Lackey who is no better than Rick Aguilera. I don’t think that the price for Halladay will be too steep, nor would I overpay. Look at what we got Santana for. I don’t think Maine and Perez are solid, but they have done well in NY in the past. These guys like Piniero, Marquis and Wolf are way overpaid. I would rather roll the dice on a Homer Bailey type that will throw hard, or sign a guy like Brandon Backe than overpay. Lets save some cash so that we can get a guy in June or July if need be. And I really like Navarro.
Why the Yankees win
The reason the Yanks win is that they identify what they need (Sabathia, Burnett, Granderson) early, and go out and get them. The Mutts seem to work backwards, going after filler (Coste, Blanco,Dessens) instead. If Fernando Martinez were a Yank prospect, he would have been dealt before he hit AA- thus guaranteeing the largest return. The Yanks never waste time on filler, as they will invite non-roster guys to camp in Feb. They will replace them as needed during the season, and they will draft guys(and pay them over slot) to replenish the system. This is what your better teams like Boston, St.Louis and the Phillies do, and they win.
This should be a fanshot
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Do you have any numbers to support anything you just said?
Gas prices today are a lot like a pitcher's ERA. Anything under 3 is amazing, under 4 is pretty good and anything 5 and up is something you want to avoid.
Halladay can only be traded to a team on his short list, and the Mets are definitely NOT on his list. Someone very close to Halladay was quoted as saying “I don’t think he will be going to the Mets”. Why would he? The Mets are not a desirable location for any player who wants to get to the World Series. The teams on Halliday’s list? Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, Phillies, Dodgers. Think the Mets are in that class? Your dreaming.
I saw Lackey pitch in the post season many times, and he is a bulldog. The bigger the game the better he pitches. How many big games did Craig Swan pitch in during his illustrious career? You can’t even compare these two pitchers, and to do so is stupid.
Speaking of stupid, you think Piniero is as bad as Ollie P? You’d rather have John Maine? The guy who can’t stay healthy enough to pitch more than a few weeks each season? While Piniero is good for 12 to 15 victories a year the last few years, and over two hundred innings per? You must be smokin some strong crack there myrick, it has rotted your brain. Oh one more thing, Dionner Navarro is not available, he’s on the Rays.
"The bigger the game, the better [Lackey] pitches."
2002: ALDS 3 IP in relief, 0.00 ERA, ALCS 7 IP, 0.00 ERA; World Series 12.1 IP, 4.38 ERA
2005: ALDS 11.1 IP, 2.38 ERA; ALCS 5 IP, 9.00 ERA
2009: ALDS 7.1 IP, 0.00 ERA; ALCS 12.1 IP, 3.65 ERA
So, no. In seasons when his team has advanced in the postseason, his performance has gotten worse (by an extremely rough metric, because I’m lazy) as the postseason has gone on.
Using another extremely poor metric, Lackey has made 12 postseason starts and has a sub-.500 record (3-4).
Also, in his career, Lackey’s K:BB in the postseason is 1.83, while in the regular season it is 2.72.
Now, I don’t think any of this is a big enough sample size to really conclude anything, but I don’t see anything objective to indicate that Lackey is “a bulldog” or that he “elevates his game when it’s really important” or any crap like that. I just see a guy who had a good start (not great, just good) in a game 7 way back in 2002, and has been pretty good since then, but not good enough to justify his massive contract demands.
But, Lackey makes faces like this when being taken out of games!:
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 13, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
And, he's so gritty, he does this:
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 13, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
The increase in Lackey's chins is what worries me the most
by James Kannengieser on Dec 13, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
If we sign him, and Molina, he might see Molina, go, "Yikes! That could be me someday!" and start a diet.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 13, 2009 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
Actually,
I would say Molina is a better fit on a “big-market” team, as they can afford to pay more money per win. Say Bengie is a 1.5 win player next year. That translates to $4 mil per win, something only the “big-market” teams can afford.
Disclaimer: In no way does this mean I am endorsing a Bengie Molina signing. Molina will probably be more like a 1 WAR player if an adjustment is made for defense.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
sure but just because you can afford to pay way too much for something
doesnt change the fact you’re paying way too much for it.
Thats like saying “i’m a billionaire, so i’m going to pay 6 million dollars for a loaf of wonderbread.” And yes this does mean i’m suggesting that purchasing a 6 million dollar loaf of wonderbread is economically equally responsible to paying that much for molina. I’ll bet the loaf of bread would have a better OBP.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 14, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
I'll bet that the loaf of bread is in better shape than Bengie.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 14, 2009 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
I would say paying more per win
makes sense when you’re talking about superstars like Holliday or Santana or Sabathia. Not when you’re talking about players who are barely above replacement level.
Okay...
But what if every team was run by Beane, Epstein, Friedman, or Jack Zsdldfhldskg(Mariners GM)?
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Then you can't find cheap players that are barely above replacement level
Unless they come from within the organization.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I'm still not sure what you mean
But I don’t think that would be true regardless because you’d still be dealing with the limits of 25 man rosters and payrolls and player demands. Plus every team isn’t run by those guys so I’m not sure why it matters now.
I was just saying it as a hypothetical...
But back to the Molina point. I still think he is only a player that a big market team could have, being around a 1.5-2 WAR player. This is something that can easily be found in a young player paid the league minimum. However, some big market teams may find it acceptable to pay more to get a player whose projection has less variability. However, for a small market team to do that, it would be really stupid, since they can barely afford good players.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 11:22 PM EST up reply actions
shouldnt that be "i bent my wookie"
also ..my cats breath smells like cat food.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 15, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
It tastes like burning.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 15, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pedaling backwards!
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
Me fail English?
That’s unpossible.
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
Please
stop comparing players in the FA market to players who have been retired for 10 or 20 years. Even if you don’t care about or don’t know the relevant stats (I’m not a big saber guy either), can you at least compare players to other players who are currently in or around baseball? Comparing Lackey to Swan or Aguilera accomplishes zero. If you are going to throw an unsubstantiated claim out there, at least compare him to someone like AJ Burnett, who has a contract similar to the one Lackey is supposedly being offered.
"You know I am only teasing. I love you gals out there -- always have." - Keith Hernandez
Perhaps
I shouldn’t compare guys to older school Mets. The point I’m trying to get across is that every time the Mutts go out and break the bank on guys like Molina, Lackey and Pineiro, they lose. These guys are used to being on teams where they are 1/25th of the roster, not a saviour. We could make a list (Coleman, Saberhagen,Bonilla,etc.) of guys the Mets threw a ton of money at (to beat the competition), and those guys were considered better players than Molina and crew. The Mets need to develop guys, get younger, and when you bring in an expensive guy, make sure he is battle hardened. As far as liking Maine and Perez, I’d prefer somebody else, but Maine and Perez have turned in a couple of good seasons amid the chaos. Pineiro couldn’t handle Boston (better luck to Lackey).
For every Coleman, there's a Beltran.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 16, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
None of Molina, Lackey, or Piniero would be expected to be a "savior".
Why would you think that?
Lackey wouldn't?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Not a savior, I don't think.
Not with Santana clearly ahead of him.
Halladay, maybe. And just about everyone would expect .300/30/100 from him. I don’t want Bay on the team for 4/65 or 5/75 but I will be interested to see what will be expected of him if he comes to the Mets.
I think with the awfulness of our 2-5
any pitcher who can be above a 2.0 WAR would almost be a savior
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
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