John Lackey Signs With The Red Sox. Now What For The Mets?
Per Ken Rosenthal, John Lackey is close to an A.J. Burnett-type deal with the Red Sox. I know the "Mets need pitching, John Lackey=best pitcher crowd" is going to be upset, but the Mets really didn't need another declining pitcher taking up a huge chunk of the budget.
This probably also seems like a big development on the Jason Bay front, but only sort of. It was already widely reported that Bay and the Red Sox weren't going to work out a deal, and that the Mariners are the Mets main competition. If the plan for the Mets truly was Bay or Lackey, however, expect them to warm up to the idea of a fifth year soon. More, interestingly, I think, is the impact of the Matt Holliday market. If the Red Sox opt for Mike Cameron now, who signs Holliday? The Angels?
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Gina
Are you the same Gina who used to comment frequently on Metsblog?
I wonder what happened to some of the other ones
therealsince86 only one springing to mind
by Pack Bringley on Dec 14, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
Glad you left
I used to agree with you all the time over there. Nothing but morons left. I still post, but God knows why. TDWTR ;)
Yeah I just couldn't take it anymore
I felt like i was having the same arguments with the same morons day in and day out and getting no where.
On second thought
If Bay sign with the Mariners, then Boras will drive up the price on Holliday. It will be a race to $100M. If Bay sign with the Mets, then Boras would have a much harder time getting the Cards and the Angles to come close to surpassing $100M. The issue would turn into years.
If Bay signs, then Omar’s only option will be Holliday and Boras knows it.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
We're scramped if we do scramped if we don't
Either Omar way overpays for Bay, or he panics and bids against himself for Holliday.
It’s also kind of sad that a situation that should be good for us, Holliday left on the market with no teams left to bid but us, is likely the last situation we want Omar to be in.
Probably the Mariners. They will see the Mets interest in Bay and the declining market for Holliday and switch their target.
Holliday probably comes down to the Mariners, Angels, Cardinals, and possibly the Yankees if they see Holliday’s price falling.
Anybody know of any other teams with interest in Holliday?
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
Red Sox if they fail to sign Bay
Asking a General Manager to slim down his budget is like asking an alcoholic to blow up a distillery.
by scott from peekskill on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Did you even read Sam's post?
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
You just know they'll add a 5th year for Bay this week
What I don’t get is, right after the season, when Wilpon/Minaya were on WFAN, all they would say is how slow-moving the market was going to be this offseason. Fans would have to be patient, the big names wouldn’t sign quickly, etc.
Now all of a sudden, they don’t want to get into protracted negotiations with Holliday.
They can throw all of their (false) info out there about defense and Citi Field, but I really think this comes down to just wanting to get something done quickly, even if it’s not the best move for the franchise.
If they want something to get done quickly
Then why not at least make an offer to Holliday before deciding he won’t sign quickly enough. Sabathia signed quickly didn’t he?
I totally agree
I don’t care whether it happens tomorrow or Jan 15, I just want Holliday here.
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 14, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah, what we really need is a pitcher who hasn't pitched in a calendar year on the budget
Oh, and I hope Bay signs with Seattle
Bay
I really don’t see Seattle interest in Bay. Jack Z places a very high premium on defense, and having fed their fanbase with the Griffey signing, don’t feel the need to spend BDM (big dumb money) on a guy like Bay. My understanding is that Lackey was the other big FA (already signed Figgins) they liked.
Nope
They are not going to pay a DH $16M a year. I’ve heard the interest is one-sided, in this case.
Why wouldn't they if Bay is worth it
Which as a DH he is, he’s probably more valuable dhing than he is in left field.
I'm not sure Jack places a very high premiun defense
So much as he recognized that the market was substantially undervaluing the competitive benefit of one defensive run as opposed to one offensive run. This was an awesome and even somewhat revolutionary strategy for a team expected not to compete, since the economic value of a defensive run is much higher for a team not expected to compete. Defensive runs, which can also help generate wins, lead to a better than expected record, which will attract interest from a disaffected fanbase. For a team expected to be competitive, this isn’t true so much, because of the “home runs are sexy” axiom. Adding Jason Bay, or a similar caliber all-hit, no-glove slugger, is going to do more to enhance sales than adding the opposite. If a team expected to win 92 games wins 96 games because their defense was better than expected, ticket and merch sales aren’t going to change much. But if they do it by adding a player whose going to hit 10 more homers than the guy he replaced is much more likely to attract fan interest.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 14, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't say that he places a "high premium on defense"
Rather, he values players properly and places the correct value on defense.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Holliday
Is there any reason to think the Yankees won’t be in on Holliday?
But what if some moron decides to give Damon 3 years?
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah maybe Sabean too
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Um, good point.
I’m just saying that maybe the Yankees, if they lose Damon, decide just to go for Holliday for the hell of it.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I don't get why anyone would give Damon more than 2/20
and I’d much rather have Cameron for that.
But it may be the Yankers are actually bumping up to their payroll limit and have already decided to not go after Holliday.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 14, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions
-Sabathia, Tex, Burnett
-Board memebers have asked the Front office to slow the spending
-Granderson makes LF less neccessary. Melky can fill in
by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
My prediction is he ends up with the Yankees
by James Kannengieser on Dec 14, 2009 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
You say such hurtful things
The Yankees get Sabathia, Burnett, Tex, Swisher, one off-season, then Granderson and Holliday the next.
we get K-rod, Oliver Perez, and… Jason Marquis?
we’re not even the read headed step child
what
do you guys think the angels are going to be doing? they had a ton of money coming off their payroll, and are about to lose lackey, lost figgins, lost guerrero, lost escobar, etc. i think they have to be in the market for holiday, big time
They don't have the money
The Angels have eight players eligible for salary arbitration this winter — pitchers Jered Weaver and Joe Saunders, catchers Mike Napoli and Jeff Mathis, infielders Erick Aybar, Maicer Izturis and Howie Kendrick and outfielder Reggie Willits — and some were among the team’s top performers in 2009.
Though the players are under club control, the considerable jumps in salaries for many of the eight probably will add $13 million to $15 million to the team’s 2010 payroll.
Combined with raises to returning players such as Scott Kazmir, Ervin Santana and Juan Rivera, huge contracts of veterans such as Torii Hunter, Gary Matthews Jr. and Brian Fuentes, and the signing of Abreu to a two-year, $19-million deal in late October, and Reagins went from a GM with lots of wiggle room to one operating out of a phone booth.
A look at the team’s payroll for 2010, with projections for raises to arbitration-eligible players and those with less than three years of big league service, shows that the Angels already have roughly $94 million committed to 21 players under contract or club control.
Throw in the $5.25 million the team owes released reliever Justin Speier, and salaries for another four players who will make at least the major league minimum of $400,000, and that pushes the payroll to almost $101 million.
So, instead of having $51 million to play with, Reagins has something closer to $12 million, which isn’t much in baseball’s financial stratosphere.
Matsui?
At least, that’s what Stark is reproting:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/angels-in-serious-discussions-for-hideki-matsui.html
haha
i was in the middle of reading the same article you just posted. unfortunately i stopped right before…
“He could look to trade for a high-priced ace such as Toronto’s Roy Halladay, who will make $15.75 million in 2010. Heck, with the kind of money he had, Reagins could add a big bat and a front-of-the-rotation starter and have some left for another move or two.
Then again, maybe not."
gary matthews... ugh
that is all
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Dec 14, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know how much they have, but man, I feel bad for Angels fans, with that massive exodus.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
Ken Davidoff just said the Mets haven't heard anything from John Lackey's people about deal with Boston
Hmm…
Interesting...
…there’s no way he takes a physical unless they are close, though. Still, until he signs a deal, he has no interest in telling other teams that it’s done.
Pitching options left?
I guess we are now looking at a Sheets, Piniero, Garland, Doug Davis type of platter to choose from? Also, anyone hear any updates on Niese? How much of 2010 will he miss?
Niece is going to be ready for Spring Training 2010, so sayth his father.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I think you can go ahead and buy the shotgun shells
2:36pm: Morosi tweets that MLB hasn’t granted the Phils permission to negotiate with Halladay yet, but a deal “looks close.”
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/roy-halladay-rumors-monday-1.html
by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
IT'S OK.
We offered a contract to Kelvim Escobar.
The resoning is that he used to be with the Angels, so he must be as good as Lackey.
you know what I'm sayin' ?
Well, if Escobar can recover his talent, and his health, I'd say he's actually better than Lackey.
Those are some big ifs, but…In limited duty last season, he didn’t die, so that’s a start.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
And now it looks like
Roy is going to the Phillies. This off season couldn’t be better (sarcasm)
ehh, getting Halladay and giving up Lee
seems kind of dumb for me. lee is much cheaper than Halladay, and will probably get less on the market as a free agent.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Keep in mind that they're getting a full season of Halliday
versus—what was it—15 or so starts from Lee? That adds 4 wins.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 14, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
huh?
they would have had a full season from Lee next year…so it doesn’t add 4 wins.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
right, but why does that matter?
last year is done – the Phillies should be looking at how many additional wins Halladay will give them over Lee next year, and it’s nowhere near 4 (barring injury)
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I'm reading that as I write this post Holliday is negotiating a long term contract
with the Phillies and that they have a three team deal in place. (see metsblog.com)
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
You mean HD7.
I hear the deal might send Lee to the Mariners. I wonder if they extend him? It would be funny if he got flipped to the Mets.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Halladay right?
Im gonna need you to refer to them by their hday names to avoid giving me heart palpitations. If the Phillies got Holliday and Halladay I’d just give up and dedicate my sports life entirely to the nets.
Oh I do
I forgot about them temporarily, plus dedicating your sports life to the steelers doesn’t really carry the same desperation as dedicating it to the 2-4300 nets
Yeah, Halliday (sorry)
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
It's Halladay
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
I'm surpised Theo Epstein
would give that money to Lackey. I mean, now they’re rotation is great, but also very fragile (Lackey and Beckett had injuries last year, as did Matsuzaka, and Wakefield)
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
how do they have the money?
Bay wasn’t that much, they have V-Mart, and still Varitek
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Their payroll wasn't that much last year
I want to say it was under 130, and they’re in the process of moving Lowell, though apparently that trade might be dead because of a thumb injury, they get a lot of cheap production and don’t have many expensive contracts that I can think of.
AGon?
Just my pure speculation, of course, but signing Lackey would make it easier for Boston to include Bucholz in a deal for AGon. Obvioulsly, the deal would include more than that, as SD doesn’t need to trade him, but it’s an intriguing possibility for Boston.
why?
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
The only reason I can think of is because he's overrated and coming off a career year.
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
yea, but you don't HAVE to trade those kind of guys
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Because they can't afford him
And desperately need to rebuild their farm system and he’s their only tradeable piece.
He's only making like $5 million next year
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
and isn't he under club control through 2013?
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 14, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
Marlins are not dumb
and Omar would see the 5 ERA and not do it
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
Well to me unless we can trade for a cheap/young starting pitcher
without totally annihilating our farm system, which I’m not sure can happen, I say either try to get Harang as a salary dump, or punt on 2010 if the crappy left over free agents want multi-year double digit deals.
You just might get your wish
I smell a riot very soon. I am actually afraid what Omar is going to do now. He might throw a six year deal at Bay.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
yeah a friend of mine
is claiming he just read that Bay rejected the Giants offer and his number 1 interest was the mets now.
Absolutely
Please get yourself to a mental health professional ASAP
Asking a General Manager to slim down his budget is like asking an alcoholic to blow up a distillery.
by scott from peekskill on Dec 14, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Too much money, too many years, no DH to hide his fielding.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 14, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh
Aaron Harang, Ben Sheets, Joel Pineiro, I suppose, for less than the latter 2’s initial asking prices. It’s slim pickins’ right now.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 14, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
I actually see Omar trading for Harang
But he’ll give up some good prospects anyway
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
Aaron Harang
Pineiro, Doug Davis, Ben Sheets, Derek Lowe. All except Pineiro would be cheap, although Pineiro is pretty good.
other possibilites
Duchscherer, Bedard, Chapman, Wang, Smoltz, either Hill (Shawn or Rich). Pedro and RJ are still out there. Hell, Washburn for a very small price.
Rich Harden
Oh wait Omar apparently can’t focus on more than one or two things at a time and let many good options get signed by other teams already.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 15, 2009 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Deal is official it sounds like
Halladay to Phils=Met season over
Philles just got Roy Halladay
----Warner----
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by Scent of a Woman on Dec 14, 2009 3:57 PM EST reply actions
What a disgrace
----Warner----
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by Scent of a Woman on Dec 14, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
link?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
its on mlbtraderumors
but i didn’t need a link, I felt a unexplained pang of horror before it even happened.
Jon Heyman is reporting it
----Warner----
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by Scent of a Woman on Dec 14, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
well that means its true
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Phillies making moves while the Mets are sleeping
----Warner----
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by Scent of a Woman on Dec 14, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
I was being sarcastic about Heyman
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Gave up Cliff Lee
So it’s not as bad as it first appears
by James Kannengieser on Dec 14, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, after the initial shock
The Phillies gave up young prospects for Lee, and will presumably have to give up even better prospects for Doc.
----Warner----
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by Scent of a Woman on Dec 14, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
A closer in the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th innings....
Build the best damn bullpen in baseball!!!!!
And score some runs….alot of them…………..
and you'
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
reply fail
You’re plan top do that is?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting point
From country what you is?
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 14, 2009 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
You know, you can say all you want about not overpaying people...
but when you are a big market team, you can afford to take those chances
The Yankees do. The Red Sox do.
We simply don’t on most occasions.
We do
when we shouldn’t. And we’ll only overpay for one person and then try and go bargain bin for every other hole so the one overpay ends up not even mattering cause we’ve surrounded them with so much crap.
by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 14, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
We seem to frequently fill one-year holes with bad long-term deals that lock up our payroll to the point that we can’t compete fot the truly elite talent. If we sign Molina, we’ll be looking to dump him next winter. If we sign Bay to 5 years, we’ll be looking to dump his contract 3 years from now. Meanwhile, the Hollidays of the world sign elsewhere.
Like to me there was no reason we shouldn't have been at least involved in Tex bidding
last year, a 27 year old all-world first basemen is the kind of player you should be willing to break the bank to sign.
Ever since the Sept 12 2007
We’ve gotten our head stomped on repeatedly
Mariners are looking good
----Warner----
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by Scent of a Woman on Dec 14, 2009 3:59 PM EST reply actions
They also gave up Lee for him
So its just a marginal upgrade
Yeah unless Halladay is giving them a MAJOR discount
I can’t see how it’s anything better than a lateral move, considering they likely gave up top prospects too.
im curious to see what the mariners are giving up in this deal
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 14, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Me too i imagine there have to be other players flying around
And I would assume the Phillies have to be getting something else back.
maybe not so much since somebody is picking up a chunk of Hallidays contract allegedly.
if thats the case they may be exchanging talent for money off the contract, although i’m not sure why they’d do that unless they have another reasonably big signing up their sleeve somewhere.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 14, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's that they have another big signing
I think it’s that they’re already stretched to their payroll limits and think they can sign Halladay for cheaper, with the new contract starting after next year, than they can Lee.
probably the more likely scenario
but i always assume the worst, makes it easier to be pleasantly surprised.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 14, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
Them giving up Lee is what might save us. I wonder if the M’s extend Lee or not. We could sign him next year you know.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Heyman...
…says Lee to Mariners, pending blah blah blah:
As I posted up earlier
I kind of question the Phillies. Halladay is good, and marginally better than Lee (about 1 WAR), and is older, and will probably cost more.
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
from mlbtraderumors
2:56pm: Heyman tweets that a three-way deal has been agreed to with Halladay going to the Phillies and Lee to the Mariners. The Phillies are now trying to sign Halladay to an extension. However, in a subsequent tweet, Heyman apologizes for a quick trigger finger and says that while the Ms are confirmed as the third team he is checking to verify they’ll get Lee.
I imagine they’re still getting Lee… but if they aren’t then frickin a.
stfu Heyman
Why not verify before posting? Ass-clown
by James Kannengieser on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
remember this next time heyman goes on a "blogger" rant
i’m sure his Northwestern journalism profs are quite proud
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 14, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Quoth Ted Berg:
“Have any of these deals officially happened yet or has everything just Twitter happened?”
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 14, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Well IMO until it's on twitter it hasn't happened
So if it’s happened on twitter, and it doesn’t happen in real life… doesn’t that open up some sort of hole in the space-time continum?
Kind of like how if you meet someone irl and then search for them on facebook and can’t find them, they must not really exist.
So, I'm not a person?
Am I a figment of my imagination?
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 14, 2009 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure nobody on this site is real but me
and you are all just figments of my imagination
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
The bloggers...
…made him do it. Stupid bastards typing away in their mother’s basement!
Could it be Hamels, instead?
That seems a tad more sensible.
"Sensible"
In terms of what the Mariners have to give up for a deal.
Phils didn't wanna pay Lee next year
We need all the details to assess this one. If they give Dominic Brown or Taylor or Drabek, well things are different
Serious question
to any posters who are old enough to remember those dark scary days before the internet, what happened when big trades like this happened if you weren’t updated every minute with every detail?
Like my brain can barely fathom it.
Piazza trade
Happened on a Friday, IIRC, and I think WFAN was usually the best source for breaking news like that. I remember being in school and hearing about it from teachers who I guess listened to WFAN in the teacher’s lounge.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 14, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
I was at home
listening to WFAN all afternoon. It took a while to unfold, I think first there was a report that the Mets were having a press conference, then that the Marlins were having one, and everyone was just waiting for confirmation. I still remember Mad Dog squealing, “MIKE PIAZZA IS A NEW YORK MET!”, definitely my favorite all time sports radio moment.
Same here
I was at home listening to FAN. I heard Mad Dog but for some reason it took until my hearing it confirmed on the next 20/20 for me to spazz out on my bed, clenching my fists and yelling WE GOT MIKE PIAZZA
yup
my dad called me (from his work landline to my house landline, no less – how quaint) and told me to turn on WFAN. What an awesome day
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I don't remember watching Mets baseball pre-Piazza
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
20/20 updates
And, before that, just hearing about the trades after they were actually made.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Next day in the newspaper (before you got to listen to it on 1050 WFAN)
Actually, now that I think about it….it was all so great. You didn’t have to waste a lot of time hitting refresh on your browser. Just read the full story the next day….by the lantern light.
by MangoMetsFan on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
I never knew anything...
…until I could vire the cuneiform version of the transaction at the Museum of Natural History.
When I was a kid, we were too poor for baseball
Baseball was what all the fancy kids watched from their new fangled television. We contemplated the alphabet for fun, and we liked it. Kids these days with their hardball times and fangraphs. Pshaw. You want to get information, try smoke signals, that’s how we did it.
Not so fast
If the Phillies don’t get anything in return for Lee from the M’s, then I would think its a stupid trade.
They gave up one set of prospects for Lee, then gave up another set and Lee for a trade up. Essentially giving up two sets of prospects for Roy Halladay.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Of course,...
…The M’s would be giving up something significant. Saunders, Moore, Morrow…?
The M's might be trading prospects to Toronto
to save Philly some prospects. Thats the only way it makes sense to me
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Thats what I am thinking. They might have given Lee to the M’s and the M’s fill in what the Phillies could not. Which would still be a crappy move if they send Drabeck.
It seems unlikely that the Phills got nothing in return. I have yet to read that the Phills got anything back from the M’s.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Well it looks like
the Phillies did get a return from the M’s. It was still somewhat of a lateral move. I wonder if the M’s extend Lee.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
More Heyman
Now has a short SI article up:
The Seattle Mariners want to keep their payroll at around $140 mill
Isn’t that near where ours is?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
As long as we end up with Ryan Garko ...
… I’ll be happy. (Ugh.)
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
I lobby we skip 2010, and just start talking about 2011 from this point on...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2009 11:09 PM EST reply actions
The only good part is that it should now be clear to statheads and Fancallers all
that Omar has bungled the offseason. I just hope we don’t get crippled with signings such as Bay at 5/85 and Molina at 3/18 as the Mets go into CYA mode.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 15, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
They're not going to be that bad next season!
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 15, 2009 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
Not being bad =/= Playing meaningful baseball
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 15, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions
With a little luck
They have a shot of sneaking into the playoffs. I kind of hope not, in a way, because that may let Omar keep his job despite the obvious bungling of this offseason.
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 15, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Hang on. Do you believe the Mets have a shot at the playoffs if they add
Bay and Molina? I’ll even throw in a Marquis.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 15, 2009 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
I think when you have Santana/Wright/Reyes and Beltran
if you can sneak into the play-offs, which we easily could, and even just two of them got hot enough we could make it to the W.S,
this
The periphery of the roster isn’t much worse than it was in 2007 or 2008, so if the 4 stars have awesome years and we get anything from any of our prospects or make a trade deadline acquisition, there’s no reason they can’t be a wild card team.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
please don't throw in a marquis
that looked horrific enough without him
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 15, 2009 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
Obviously
"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer
by boom_roasted on Dec 15, 2009 2:15 AM EST up reply actions

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