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Around SBN: The Gift Of The 2003 Tigers

John Lackey Signs With The Red Sox. Now What For The Mets?

Per Ken Rosenthal, John Lackey is close to an A.J. Burnett-type deal with the Red Sox. I know the "Mets need pitching, John Lackey=best pitcher crowd" is going to be upset, but the Mets really didn't need another declining pitcher taking up a huge chunk of the budget.

This probably also seems like a big development on the Jason Bay front, but only sort of. It was already widely reported that Bay and the Red Sox weren't going to work out a deal, and that the Mariners are the Mets main competition. If the plan for the Mets truly was Bay or Lackey, however, expect them to warm up to the idea of a fifth year soon. More, interestingly, I think, is the impact of the Matt Holliday market. If the Red Sox opt for Mike Cameron now, who signs Holliday? The Angels

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re: who signs Matt Holliday

Holliday will sign for 5/85 a week after we sign Bay for 5/82.5

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 1:49 PM EST reply actions  

Gina

Are you the same Gina who used to comment frequently on Metsblog?

by Dapoil on Dec 14, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Glad you left

I used to agree with you all the time over there. Nothing but morons left. I still post, but God knows why. TDWTR ;)

by Dapoil on Dec 14, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I just couldn't take it anymore

I felt like i was having the same arguments with the same morons day in and day out and getting no where.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

On second thought

If Bay sign with the Mariners, then Boras will drive up the price on Holliday. It will be a race to $100M. If Bay sign with the Mets, then Boras would have a much harder time getting the Cards and the Angles to come close to surpassing $100M. The issue would turn into years.

If Bay signs, then Omar’s only option will be Holliday and Boras knows it.

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

We're scramped if we do scramped if we don't

Either Omar way overpays for Bay, or he panics and bids against himself for Holliday.

It’s also kind of sad that a situation that should be good for us, Holliday left on the market with no teams left to bid but us, is likely the last situation we want Omar to be in.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably the Mariners. They will see the Mets interest in Bay and the declining market for Holliday and switch their target.

Holliday probably comes down to the Mariners, Angels, Cardinals, and possibly the Yankees if they see Holliday’s price falling.

Anybody know of any other teams with interest in Holliday?

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 1:52 PM EST reply actions  

Red Sox if they fail to sign Bay

Asking a General Manager to slim down his budget is like asking an alcoholic to blow up a distillery.

by scott from peekskill on Dec 14, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you even read Sam's post?

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

You just know they'll add a 5th year for Bay this week

What I don’t get is, right after the season, when Wilpon/Minaya were on WFAN, all they would say is how slow-moving the market was going to be this offseason. Fans would have to be patient, the big names wouldn’t sign quickly, etc.

Now all of a sudden, they don’t want to get into protracted negotiations with Holliday.

They can throw all of their (false) info out there about defense and Citi Field, but I really think this comes down to just wanting to get something done quickly, even if it’s not the best move for the franchise.

by Bieser's Balk on Dec 14, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions  

If they want something to get done quickly

Then why not at least make an offer to Holliday before deciding he won’t sign quickly enough. Sabathia signed quickly didn’t he?

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I totally agree

I don’t care whether it happens tomorrow or Jan 15, I just want Holliday here.

by Bieser's Balk on Dec 14, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Bay

I really don’t see Seattle interest in Bay. Jack Z places a very high premium on defense, and having fed their fanbase with the Griffey signing, don’t feel the need to spend BDM (big dumb money) on a guy like Bay. My understanding is that Lackey was the other big FA (already signed Figgins) they liked.

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 2:07 PM EST reply actions  

Nope

They are not going to pay a DH $16M a year. I’ve heard the interest is one-sided, in this case.

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Why wouldn't they if Bay is worth it

Which as a DH he is, he’s probably more valuable dhing than he is in left field.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure Jack places a very high premiun defense

So much as he recognized that the market was substantially undervaluing the competitive benefit of one defensive run as opposed to one offensive run. This was an awesome and even somewhat revolutionary strategy for a team expected not to compete, since the economic value of a defensive run is much higher for a team not expected to compete. Defensive runs, which can also help generate wins, lead to a better than expected record, which will attract interest from a disaffected fanbase. For a team expected to be competitive, this isn’t true so much, because of the “home runs are sexy” axiom. Adding Jason Bay, or a similar caliber all-hit, no-glove slugger, is going to do more to enhance sales than adding the opposite. If a team expected to win 92 games wins 96 games because their defense was better than expected, ticket and merch sales aren’t going to change much. But if they do it by adding a player whose going to hit 10 more homers than the guy he replaced is much more likely to attract fan interest.

"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet

What a fool I was to defy him"

-HST

by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 14, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say that he places a "high premium on defense"

Rather, he values players properly and places the correct value on defense.

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Holliday

Is there any reason to think the Yankees won’t be in on Holliday?

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 2:08 PM EST reply actions  

Already pretty huge payroll

And they’re apparently serious about bringing back Damon.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

But what if some moron decides to give Damon 3 years?

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Then Matsui is the DH for 1-2 years.

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah maybe Sabean too

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Um, good point.

I’m just saying that maybe the Yankees, if they lose Damon, decide just to go for Holliday for the hell of it.

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 14, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't get why anyone would give Damon more than 2/20

and I’d much rather have Cameron for that.

But it may be the Yankers are actually bumping up to their payroll limit and have already decided to not go after Holliday.

by SeanSchirmer on Dec 14, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

-Sabathia, Tex, Burnett
-Board memebers have asked the Front office to slow the spending
-Granderson makes LF less neccessary. Melky can fill in

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

You say such hurtful things

The Yankees get Sabathia, Burnett, Tex, Swisher, one off-season, then Granderson and Holliday the next.

we get K-rod, Oliver Perez, and… Jason Marquis?

we’re not even the read headed step child

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

what

do you guys think the angels are going to be doing? they had a ton of money coming off their payroll, and are about to lose lackey, lost figgins, lost guerrero, lost escobar, etc. i think they have to be in the market for holiday, big time

by Rey-O on Dec 14, 2009 2:19 PM EST reply actions  

They don't have the money
The Angels have eight players eligible for salary arbitration this winter — pitchers Jered Weaver and Joe Saunders, catchers Mike Napoli and Jeff Mathis, infielders Erick Aybar, Maicer Izturis and Howie Kendrick and outfielder Reggie Willits — and some were among the team’s top performers in 2009.

Though the players are under club control, the considerable jumps in salaries for many of the eight probably will add $13 million to $15 million to the team’s 2010 payroll.

Combined with raises to returning players such as Scott Kazmir, Ervin Santana and Juan Rivera, huge contracts of veterans such as Torii Hunter, Gary Matthews Jr. and Brian Fuentes, and the signing of Abreu to a two-year, $19-million deal in late October, and Reagins went from a GM with lots of wiggle room to one operating out of a phone booth.

A look at the team’s payroll for 2010, with projections for raises to arbitration-eligible players and those with less than three years of big league service, shows that the Angels already have roughly $94 million committed to 21 players under contract or club control.

Throw in the $5.25 million the team owes released reliever Justin Speier, and salaries for another four players who will make at least the major league minimum of $400,000, and that pushes the payroll to almost $101 million.

So, instead of having $51 million to play with, Reagins has something closer to $12 million, which isn’t much in baseball’s financial stratosphere.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

i was in the middle of reading the same article you just posted. unfortunately i stopped right before…

“He could look to trade for a high-priced ace such as Toronto’s Roy Halladay, who will make $15.75 million in 2010. Heck, with the kind of money he had, Reagins could add a big bat and a front-of-the-rotation starter and have some left for another move or two.

Then again, maybe not."

by Rey-O on Dec 14, 2009 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know how much they have, but man, I feel bad for Angels fans, with that massive exodus.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

WE SUCK

you know what I'm sayin' ?

by fxcarden on Dec 14, 2009 2:30 PM EST reply actions  

Interesting...

…there’s no way he takes a physical unless they are close, though. Still, until he signs a deal, he has no interest in telling other teams that it’s done.

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Pitching options left?

I guess we are now looking at a Sheets, Piniero, Garland, Doug Davis type of platter to choose from? Also, anyone hear any updates on Niese? How much of 2010 will he miss?

by Mackey Sasser on Dec 14, 2009 2:32 PM EST reply actions  

Niece is going to be ready for Spring Training 2010, so sayth his father.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm gonna be ready, too.

with a shotgun.

you know what I'm sayin' ?

by fxcarden on Dec 14, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I think you can go ahead and buy the shotgun shells

2:36pm: Morosi tweets that MLB hasn’t granted the Phils permission to negotiate with Halladay yet, but a deal “looks close.”

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/roy-halladay-rumors-monday-1.html

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

IT'S OK.

We offered a contract to Kelvim Escobar.

The resoning is that he used to be with the Angels, so he must be as good as Lackey.

you know what I'm sayin' ?

by fxcarden on Dec 14, 2009 2:33 PM EST reply actions  

Well, if Escobar can recover his talent, and his health, I'd say he's actually better than Lackey.

Those are some big ifs, but…In limited duty last season, he didn’t die, so that’s a start.

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2009 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

And now it looks like

Roy is going to the Phillies. This off season couldn’t be better (sarcasm)

by Mike Clemente on Dec 14, 2009 3:45 PM EST reply actions  

ehh, getting Halladay and giving up Lee

seems kind of dumb for me. lee is much cheaper than Halladay, and will probably get less on the market as a free agent.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Keep in mind that they're getting a full season of Halliday

versus—what was it—15 or so starts from Lee? That adds 4 wins.

by SeanSchirmer on Dec 14, 2009 9:18 PM EST up reply actions  

huh?

they would have had a full season from Lee next year…so it doesn’t add 4 wins.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 15, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

He means adding 4 wins from last years total

Since they only got half a year from Lee last year.

by Gina on Dec 15, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

right, but why does that matter?

last year is done – the Phillies should be looking at how many additional wins Halladay will give them over Lee next year, and it’s nowhere near 4 (barring injury)

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 15, 2009 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm reading that as I write this post Holliday is negotiating a long term contract

with the Phillies and that they have a three team deal in place. (see metsblog.com)

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on Dec 14, 2009 3:46 PM EST reply actions  

You mean HD7.

I hear the deal might send Lee to the Mariners. I wonder if they extend him? It would be funny if he got flipped to the Mets.

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Halladay right?

Im gonna need you to refer to them by their hday names to avoid giving me heart palpitations. If the Phillies got Holliday and Halladay I’d just give up and dedicate my sports life entirely to the nets.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I do

I forgot about them temporarily, plus dedicating your sports life to the steelers doesn’t really carry the same desperation as dedicating it to the 2-4300 nets

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Halliday (sorry)

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on Dec 14, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

It's Halladay

"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"

by Evan_S on Dec 14, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm surpised Theo Epstein

would give that money to Lackey. I mean, now they’re rotation is great, but also very fragile (Lackey and Beckett had injuries last year, as did Matsuzaka, and Wakefield)

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:47 PM EST reply actions  

how do they have the money?

Bay wasn’t that much, they have V-Mart, and still Varitek

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Their payroll wasn't that much last year

I want to say it was under 130, and they’re in the process of moving Lowell, though apparently that trade might be dead because of a thumb injury, they get a lot of cheap production and don’t have many expensive contracts that I can think of.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

AGon?

Just my pure speculation, of course, but signing Lackey would make it easier for Boston to include Bucholz in a deal for AGon. Obvioulsly, the deal would include more than that, as SD doesn’t need to trade him, but it’s an intriguing possibility for Boston.

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I would disagree

SD definitely has to trade him.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

why?

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 14, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions  

The only reason I can think of is because he's overrated and coming off a career year.

"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"

by Evan_S on Dec 14, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions  

yea, but you don't HAVE to trade those kind of guys

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 14, 2009 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Because they can't afford him

And desperately need to rebuild their farm system and he’s their only tradeable piece.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 8:21 PM EST up reply actions  

He's only making like $5 million next year

"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"

by Evan_S on Dec 14, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean to resign him

although I’m not even sure they can afford 5 million.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 9:16 PM EST up reply actions  

So those who didn't want Lackey...

Who exactly do you suggest we get for the rotation now?

by Syler on Dec 14, 2009 3:48 PM EST reply actions  

Marlins are not dumb

and Omar would see the 5 ERA and not do it

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Well to me unless we can trade for a cheap/young starting pitcher

without totally annihilating our farm system, which I’m not sure can happen, I say either try to get Harang as a salary dump, or punt on 2010 if the crappy left over free agents want multi-year double digit deals.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

You just might get your wish

I smell a riot very soon. I am actually afraid what Omar is going to do now. He might throw a six year deal at Bay.

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah a friend of mine

is claiming he just read that Bay rejected the Giants offer and his number 1 interest was the mets now.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Since Holliday is still on the market with only one offer, and that offering being less than 1.5 million more per than what we’ve offered bay.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely

Please get yourself to a mental health professional ASAP

Asking a General Manager to slim down his budget is like asking an alcoholic to blow up a distillery.

by scott from peekskill on Dec 14, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

Too much money, too many years, no DH to hide his fielding.

by SeanSchirmer on Dec 14, 2009 9:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Ugh

Aaron Harang, Ben Sheets, Joel Pineiro, I suppose, for less than the latter 2’s initial asking prices. It’s slim pickins’ right now.

by James Kannengieser on Dec 14, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I actually see Omar trading for Harang

But he’ll give up some good prospects anyway

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Aaron Harang

Pineiro, Doug Davis, Ben Sheets, Derek Lowe. All except Pineiro would be cheap, although Pineiro is pretty good.

by Sam Page on Dec 14, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

other possibilites

Duchscherer, Bedard, Chapman, Wang, Smoltz, either Hill (Shawn or Rich). Pedro and RJ are still out there. Hell, Washburn for a very small price.

by Sam Page on Dec 14, 2009 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Rich Harden

Oh wait Omar apparently can’t focus on more than one or two things at a time and let many good options get signed by other teams already.

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 15, 2009 12:30 AM EST up reply actions  

link?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

its on mlbtraderumors

but i didn’t need a link, I felt a unexplained pang of horror before it even happened.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

well that means its true

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I was being sarcastic about Heyman

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Gave up Cliff Lee

So it’s not as bad as it first appears

by James Kannengieser on Dec 14, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

But

Halladay has more grission than Lee. His nickname is Doc and Lee doesn’t show emotion.

by Mount17 on Dec 14, 2009 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, after the initial shock

The Phillies gave up young prospects for Lee, and will presumably have to give up even better prospects for Doc.

----Warner----
-------13-------

by Scent of a Woman on Dec 14, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

A closer in the 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th innings....

Build the best damn bullpen in baseball!!!!!

And score some runs….alot of them…………..

by 1969met on Dec 14, 2009 3:58 PM EST reply actions  

and you'

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

reply fail

You’re plan top do that is?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

You know, you can say all you want about not overpaying people...

but when you are a big market team, you can afford to take those chances

The Yankees do. The Red Sox do.

We simply don’t on most occasions.

by Syler on Dec 14, 2009 3:58 PM EST reply actions  

This.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 14, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

We seem to frequently fill one-year holes with bad long-term deals that lock up our payroll to the point that we can’t compete fot the truly elite talent. If we sign Molina, we’ll be looking to dump him next winter. If we sign Bay to 5 years, we’ll be looking to dump his contract 3 years from now. Meanwhile, the Hollidays of the world sign elsewhere.

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Like to me there was no reason we shouldn't have been at least involved in Tex bidding

last year, a 27 year old all-world first basemen is the kind of player you should be willing to break the bank to sign.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

ARod

ARod may be the ultimate example. We resigned Ordonez to a 4-year deal the winter before ARod was a FA. Then we couldn’t sign ARod because we were already paying a SS we couldn’t dump (not to mention big $ for other mediocrities).

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Ever since the Sept 12 2007

We’ve gotten our head stomped on repeatedly

by Rigsay on Dec 14, 2009 3:59 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah unless Halladay is giving them a MAJOR discount

I can’t see how it’s anything better than a lateral move, considering they likely gave up top prospects too.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Me too i imagine there have to be other players flying around

And I would assume the Phillies have to be getting something else back.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe not so much since somebody is picking up a chunk of Hallidays contract allegedly.

if thats the case they may be exchanging talent for money off the contract, although i’m not sure why they’d do that unless they have another reasonably big signing up their sleeve somewhere.

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 14, 2009 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think it's that they have another big signing

I think it’s that they’re already stretched to their payroll limits and think they can sign Halladay for cheaper, with the new contract starting after next year, than they can Lee.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

probably the more likely scenario

but i always assume the worst, makes it easier to be pleasantly surprised.

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 14, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Them giving up Lee is what might save us. I wonder if the M’s extend Lee or not. We could sign him next year you know.

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

As I posted up earlier

I kind of question the Phillies. Halladay is good, and marginally better than Lee (about 1 WAR), and is older, and will probably cost more.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:06 PM EST reply actions  

from mlbtraderumors
2:56pm: Heyman tweets that a three-way deal has been agreed to with Halladay going to the Phillies and Lee to the Mariners. The Phillies are now trying to sign Halladay to an extension. However, in a subsequent tweet, Heyman apologizes for a quick trigger finger and says that while the Ms are confirmed as the third team he is checking to verify they’ll get Lee.

I imagine they’re still getting Lee… but if they aren’t then frickin a.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:08 PM EST reply actions  

stfu Heyman

Why not verify before posting? Ass-clown

by James Kannengieser on Dec 14, 2009 4:11 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

remember this next time heyman goes on a "blogger" rant

i’m sure his Northwestern journalism profs are quite proud

by Bieser's Balk on Dec 14, 2009 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Quoth Ted Berg:

“Have any of these deals officially happened yet or has everything just Twitter happened?”

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 14, 2009 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Well IMO until it's on twitter it hasn't happened

So if it’s happened on twitter, and it doesn’t happen in real life… doesn’t that open up some sort of hole in the space-time continum?

Kind of like how if you meet someone irl and then search for them on facebook and can’t find them, they must not really exist.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm pretty sure nobody on this site is real but me

and you are all just figments of my imagination

"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"

by Evan_S on Dec 14, 2009 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

The bloggers...

…made him do it. Stupid bastards typing away in their mother’s basement!

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Really I'd completely disagree

There’s no way, if given the choice, i’d keep Lee over Hamels.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

"Sensible"

In terms of what the Mariners have to give up for a deal.

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh I see

I thought you meant in terms of the Phillies.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Phils didn't wanna pay Lee next year

We need all the details to assess this one. If they give Dominic Brown or Taylor or Drabek, well things are different

by Rigsay on Dec 14, 2009 4:13 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

It seems like they’re making the trade because they think Lee will cost more than that want to pay, but that doesn’t make much sense if they’re going to be signing Halladay to that extreme contract that’s been rumored.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Serious question

to any posters who are old enough to remember those dark scary days before the internet, what happened when big trades like this happened if you weren’t updated every minute with every detail?

Like my brain can barely fathom it.

by Gina on Dec 14, 2009 4:14 PM EST reply actions  

Piazza trade

Happened on a Friday, IIRC, and I think WFAN was usually the best source for breaking news like that. I remember being in school and hearing about it from teachers who I guess listened to WFAN in the teacher’s lounge.

by James Kannengieser on Dec 14, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I was at home

listening to WFAN all afternoon. It took a while to unfold, I think first there was a report that the Mets were having a press conference, then that the Marlins were having one, and everyone was just waiting for confirmation. I still remember Mad Dog squealing, “MIKE PIAZZA IS A NEW YORK MET!”, definitely my favorite all time sports radio moment.

by Mount17 on Dec 14, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Same here

I was at home listening to FAN. I heard Mad Dog but for some reason it took until my hearing it confirmed on the next 20/20 for me to spazz out on my bed, clenching my fists and yelling WE GOT MIKE PIAZZA

by Joamiq on Dec 14, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

yup

my dad called me (from his work landline to my house landline, no less – how quaint) and told me to turn on WFAN. What an awesome day

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 14, 2009 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't remember watching Mets baseball pre-Piazza

"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"

by Evan_S on Dec 14, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

20/20 updates

And, before that, just hearing about the trades after they were actually made.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Next day in the newspaper (before you got to listen to it on 1050 WFAN)

Actually, now that I think about it….it was all so great. You didn’t have to waste a lot of time hitting refresh on your browser. Just read the full story the next day….by the lantern light.

by MangoMetsFan on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I never knew anything...

…until I could vire the cuneiform version of the transaction at the Museum of Natural History.

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

When I was a kid, we were too poor for baseball

Baseball was what all the fancy kids watched from their new fangled television. We contemplated the alphabet for fun, and we liked it. Kids these days with their hardball times and fangraphs. Pshaw. You want to get information, try smoke signals, that’s how we did it.

by lstorie1971 on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Not so fast

If the Phillies don’t get anything in return for Lee from the M’s, then I would think its a stupid trade.

They gave up one set of prospects for Lee, then gave up another set and Lee for a trade up. Essentially giving up two sets of prospects for Roy Halladay.

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Of course,...

…The M’s would be giving up something significant. Saunders, Moore, Morrow…?

by danielj on Dec 14, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

The M's might be trading prospects to Toronto

to save Philly some prospects. Thats the only way it makes sense to me

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 14, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats what I am thinking. They might have given Lee to the M’s and the M’s fill in what the Phillies could not. Which would still be a crappy move if they send Drabeck.
It seems unlikely that the Phills got nothing in return. I have yet to read that the Phills got anything back from the M’s.

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Well it looks like

the Phillies did get a return from the M’s. It was still somewhat of a lateral move. I wonder if the M’s extend Lee.

by Coolpapabell on Dec 14, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

As long as we end up with Ryan Garko ...

… I’ll be happy. (Ugh.)

"Never throw a slider to The Glider."

- Ed Charles, No. 5

by The Glider on Dec 14, 2009 5:29 PM EST reply actions  

I lobby we skip 2010, and just start talking about 2011 from this point on...

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 14, 2009 11:09 PM EST reply actions  

The only good part is that it should now be clear to statheads and Fancallers all

that Omar has bungled the offseason. I just hope we don’t get crippled with signings such as Bay at 5/85 and Molina at 3/18 as the Mets go into CYA mode.

by SeanSchirmer on Dec 15, 2009 12:27 AM EST up reply actions  

They're not going to be that bad next season!

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 15, 2009 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Not being bad =/= Playing meaningful baseball

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 15, 2009 12:34 AM EST up reply actions  

With a little luck

They have a shot of sneaking into the playoffs. I kind of hope not, in a way, because that may let Omar keep his job despite the obvious bungling of this offseason.

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 15, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I think when you have Santana/Wright/Reyes and Beltran

if you can sneak into the play-offs, which we easily could, and even just two of them got hot enough we could make it to the W.S,

by Gina on Dec 15, 2009 1:19 AM EST up reply actions  

this

The periphery of the roster isn’t much worse than it was in 2007 or 2008, so if the 4 stars have awesome years and we get anything from any of our prospects or make a trade deadline acquisition, there’s no reason they can’t be a wild card team.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 15, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Obviously

"For $11.4 million you can actually get a good player. But of course this is one of the things foolish organizations do: They complain that they can't afford good players after spending millions of dollars on not-good players." --Rob Neyer

by boom_roasted on Dec 15, 2009 2:15 AM EST up reply actions  

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