Point Of Contention: Jeff Francoeur's Defense
Lookout Landing did a series of these "point of contention" articles earlier in the offseason, and I thought it would be a good way to flesh out some issues I had been thinking about.
Jeff Francoeur won a gold glove in just his third season, at age 23, and has probably the best throwing arm in baseball. Yet, mostly due to the newfound popularity of MGL's UZR stat, Francoeur's defensive reputation among fans has suffered. Looking at his UZR numbers at fangraphs, it's understandable why: his Range component has gradually declined, while his best year, 2007, features an Arm rating so high it can easily be written off as an outlier. Thus, many have concluded that Francoeur is declining as a fielder, and his best years were kind of fluky to begin with. For a super-athletic 25-year-old, however, such a decline is pretty unbelievable. Consider some different, but similar measures:
| year | UZR | Dewan | Fans |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2005* | 13 | 17 | 81 |
| 2006 | 8 (4) | 9 (6) | 62 (9) |
| 2007 | 17 (1) | 19 (1) | 71(4) |
| 2008 | -5 (8) | -2 (NR) | 54 (27) |
| 2009 | -6 (14) | 8 (11) | 65** (29) |
*Didn't qualify for leaderboards in 2005
**The 1-100 equivalent of Tango's new 1-5 rankings
This table shows his UZR, his John Dewan runs saved, based on the equally popular plus/minus and featured in the annual "Fielding Bible," and Tango's fan scouting reports. In parentheses is his rank relative to the rest of the league. In general, the three measures agree, up until 2009, which is of course the most important year for projecting future performance. Looking at his Dewan's runs saved, however, the narrative often applied to his UZR doesn't really work. The Dewan numbers, mostly because they rank him +8 in 2009, make 2008 look like an outlier, not the beginning of a decline.
UZR and the Field Bible numbers are, by MGL's own admission, calculated in much of the same way. The main difference, as I understand it, is Dewan measures the ball's position relative to x-y coordinates, while MGL uses "bins" or small divisions of the playing field. So what accounts for the discrepancy here? In a single season, fielding statistics can fluctuate greatly; the rule of thumb is one season of fielding numbers is the equivalent of one-third season of hitting data in terms of significance and predictive ability. Often I called Frenchy's very poor UZR numbers with the Mets as "noise." Yes, it was a measure of how he had performed, but it was probably skewed by a few bad plays not indicative of his talent. Still, while Dewan's numbers tend to be higher than UZR, 14 is quite a disparity.
While further splitting up the data after talking about the unreliability of these stats in small samples may seem odd, here's how the two metrics compare in terms of range and arm:
Here, the aforementioned UZR decline is evident, while the plus/minus numbers seemingly only fluctuate a bit, year-to-year.
Also, here, the Fielding Bible data complicates idea that his 2007 throwing performance was a fluke. Talking to Mark yesterday about the numbers, he speculated that one system might be uniquely better at handling arm ratings, which would account for some of the difference. Just looking at this data, without any basis in the methodology, we might speculate that Dewan's system handles arms better. But that's just idle speculation really.
One last point of interest that Mark also brought up in the Jason Bay discussion, is speed scores, which are available in some form on fangraphs. Francoeur's speed score declined from his rookie season: 4.2, 3.8, 2.8, 2.8, until reaching 4.3 in 2009. This would seemingly support the idea that Jeff is in no way "slowing down."
The real take-away here, I think, is that it's dangerous to assign narratives to statistical trends prematurely. Jeff Francoeur has the track-record of a great defensive outfielder, and we can probably assume he'll be at least a good one going forward. And it's no small question, for with Francoeur's offensive game, the difference between being a -5 and 10 run rightfielder is the difference between fringe-player and solid starter.
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33 comments
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Comments
Fielding stats question
Do the “arm” ratings consider the fact that after a while, opposing players stopped running against him in marginal situations? Francoeur doesn’t get as many chances to throw runners out over the last couple years since they know not to try to take an extra base on him.
I believe so
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
yes, I think so
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 16, 2009 6:35 AM EST up reply actions
Yes according to the fangraphs glossary
Outfielder’s get credit (plus or minus) depending on what the runners do on a hit or a fly ball out. A runner can stay put, advance, or get thrown out. A fielder will get credit not only if he throws out more than his share of runners, but also if he keeps more than his share of runners from advancing extra bases.
by OlStubbleBeard on Dec 16, 2009 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Francoeur Avenue?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
I don't think Le French
is quite the butcher in right that people make him out to be, I think he is average to a tick under average. However, I would quibble with calling him “super-athletic”. He’s pretty clunky and leaden-footed and he’s not exactly wiry.
How are SPD scores calculated?
I can’t find anything on the Fangraphs glossary, but I’m not sure they’re a great device to measure defensive speed or range if they’re an offensive metric. Luis Castillo, for example, has maintained a pretty static SPD since 2003 while his RngR has trended downward.
Obviously outfield range involves a lot more straight running and so is probably a little better correlated to baserunning speed, but I wonder if the SPD stat wouldn’t be skewed (to Frenchy’s credit) by good baserunning.
Link
Here. It seems like an odd metric, a mix of stolen bases, triples and runs scored. I tend to agree with your comment.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 16, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
In any case, I think EqBRR is a little more trustworthy
Frenchy’s recent scores (measure in runs + or -)
’06 -0.5
’07 0.0
’08 0.7
’09 -4.0
Now I’m just confused.
by OlStubbleBeard on Dec 16, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah that is confusing, its almost like his EqBRR reverse correlates to spd
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 16, 2009 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, its definitely an offensive metric
When I looked at it in terms of Bay though, I just looked at 2009, and what I found was that the only corner outfielders with negative UZRs and spd scores over 4.0 tended to be special cases. Lots of converted infielders, a couple rookies, and a couple guys who were hurt much more by their awful arm than range. Bay and Francoeur were the only real tenured and “natural” outfielders who didn’t fit, and I honestly hadn’t even realized Francoeur’s spd rating had been previously so low. Bays was 5.3, which is pretty much what its been for his whole career. And the point was that I suspect Bay’s crappy defense is more a product of poor defensive technique, as opposed to ability to cover distance, and how that related to playing in Fenway.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 16, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent Post
You have enlightened me to Frenchy. Perhaps even a Frenchy revolution? Hopefully not including the ensuing “the terror”.
Travis Hafner is made of gold
Storm the Bastille!
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
As someone who watched him play every day from some point in 2005-July 10, 2009
He was a legitimately good defender, on his way to being the best in the league, before he tried the “getting jacked” experiment in the 2008 pre-season.
His range completely died. It looked like he was running through molasses most of the time in 2008. It was absolutely inconceivable how someone who was an elite defender in 2007 turned into Francoeur in 2008.
The better “Baseball shape” he gets into, the better both his bat and glove will be.
He’s a dumbass.
http://www.capitolavenueclub.com/
Wow, some picture
And I have known the eyes already, known them all—
The eyes that fix you in a formulated phrase,
And when I am formulated, sprawling on a pin,
When I am pinned and wriggling on the wall,
Then how should I begin
To spit out all the butt-ends of my days and ways?
And how should I presume?
— from The Love Song of J. Alfred Francoeur
by letsgocyclones on Dec 16, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions
Another element of this
I wonder if Dewan somehow handled the CitiField park factors in a different way. This is something that’s been talked a lot about in regard to UZR and Beltran, and if you look at Francoeur’s season, during the first half, when he was still a Brave, his defense looked much more like it did pre-2008, and then plummeted when he came to the Mets.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 16, 2009 12:16 PM EST reply actions
Question about UZR
One play that sticks out in my mind is where Francoeur dropped a fly ball he lost in the lights. As much as he got razzed for it at the time, it was kind of a fluke play that didn’t really indicate his defensive abilities. Presumably +/- would just rate this as a -1. I only have a basic understanding of how UZR works. I’m wondering if this type of play has a big negative impact on UZR.
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
this brings up a good point
I’ve read many definitions of the various fielding stats, but I’ve yet to see an actual example of a specific play and how it was scored. That would be extremely helpful in understanding the process of arriving at those final numbers.
by Mike Clemente on Dec 16, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure that information is freely available
But my understanding is that its basically calculated using all the collected fielding data and relating it to defensive “zones” and giving each play a particular value based on the frequency with which it would be made. For example, if a player makes a play that is essentially the same play that gets made by other fielders 99% of the time, its worth a tiny, tiny fraction of a positive run. If he fails, its worth a large negative value. If a player makes a play that very few other players would make comparably, its worth a large positive run value, and if he fails to make the play that most others wouldn’t, its worth a small negative run value. If my understanding is correct, then the law of small numbers would absolutely apply to this kind of play for Frenchy. Relative to other single plays, a routine play failure would have a large negative value, so in a very small sample size, that one play would carry a good deal of weight, but in a larger sample size, that includes the same player frequently making the same type of play, the effect would be reduced.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 16, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
I guess my question is
how large is large? How much is a player penalized for missing a play that UZR classifies as routine? Half a run? One run? Five runs? Like you mentioned, I don’t think that these specific details are available.
You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.
It always depends on the possible outcomes
If the possible outcomes are a player gaining an extra base vs. not gaining a single extra base, I assume its the calculated value of one base. If its the difference between 0 bases (as in an out) or 3 bases, I’d assume the value is calculated appropriately. Again, I’m speculating to a degree here, since there isn’t really a resource that provides the UZR data and formula for its computation, but we can still think about it like this in a loose philosophical sense. I don’t remember the specific play you’re talking about, but if it yielded 2 bases as opposed to an out, in a half-season worth of opportunities, I’d imagine that one play carried significantly more weight than it should have when considered in the scope of a stable sample size.
For the sake of reference, not that I am saying 2 bases as opposed to an out has this value, according to this the value of a double, aka a two-base hit, relative to an out is 1.08 runs (remember, that’s relative to an out, not an average non-double, compared to which a double would clearly be worth less than a full run). So if we assume this one play by Francoeur was worth -1.08 runs, and the law of small numbers is applicable here, that -1.08 runs probably carries a lot more weight in the final product than it should considering the frequency with which Francoeur would usually make that play an out.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 17, 2009 1:40 AM EST up reply actions
So, in effect,
That would mean that Luis Castillo’s game losing misplayed pop-up at 2B greatly reduced his value?
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
Good post
though it won’t matter if he OBPs at .300 again.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
A powerpoint
of various Francoeur photos where he is flying into a fence should be made as a visual aid to this post.
Travis Hafner is made of gold
by Super Mario on Dec 16, 2009 2:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You can read about the difference in defensive statistics in Ben Baumer's presentation
yes they hire competing data companies, which is important to note
i was just talking about the methodology. lol baumer

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