Jeff Francoeur says sabermetrics mean nothing to him
I have a feeling this thread will get very ugly
about 2 years ago
Syler
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In other news, water is still wet.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 16, 2009 5:32 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 17, 2009 1:10 AM EST up reply actions
Eh
Does this really surprise anyone? He doesn’t put much stock in OBP. I’m not surprised he hasn’t bookmarked FanGraphs.
Francoeur does use stats for fantasy football.
That’s good to know because all fantasy football uses is stats. There is nothing else.
40 times
Well, in Al Davis’ fantasy football league.
- Rivers McCown, From Mom's Basement | Twitter
by riversmccown on Dec 16, 2009 8:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thats Ok
because his traditional stats suck as well.
by aparkermarshall on Dec 16, 2009 5:40 PM EST reply actions
shock and amazement!!!
just kidding, they’re not on the scoreboard.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 16, 2009 5:41 PM EST reply actions
I think there is a more serious question here
does any stat matter to Jeff Francoeur?
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
Umm . . . the number of free bags at check-in?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 16, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
His Delta frequent flyer miles?
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
LMAO
Btw, love your handle. From your mouth to God’s ears.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
Maybe the number of country albums on his iPod. (CoAlb)
As per this particular FanShot. He’d be better off touring around the many karaoke oints at and around Flushing.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
That muxt have been one hell of an interview.
Asking the questions we have some guy that knows absolutely nothing about analyzing baseball but registered a really good domain name. Answering the questions we have someone who knows absolutely nothing about analyzing baseball but can hit a baseball pretty far on the off chance his hacking make contact and can throw one quite well. The subject matter appears to include methods of analysis of baseball, which both parties seem to know nothing about. Riveting, I’m sure…
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 16, 2009 6:11 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
*must
just finished a nap
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 16, 2009 6:12 PM EST up reply actions
And if he believed in sabermetrics ... ?
… he would be a better baseball player? He would walk more?
Um, that’s not how athletes think. They play from pitch to pitch, situation to situation.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
Yes, they may look at stats, and try to put together patterns on players, but
in the end, there are too many variables. You don’t think other managers, hitting instructors, players, pundits and fans have pointed out to Franceour that his OBP sucks? You don’t think he knows that?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
he does
but the point is that he doesn’t care. Zach Greinke, on the other hand, used his interest in sabermetrics to try different things on the mound that helped make him a better pitcher. That’s sorta the point
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Considering the Royals staff as a whole,
Zack Greinke is already what one could rightfully consider a “veteran presence” on that staff. Maybe he can give Dayton Moore a talking or two about going after Yuniesky Betancourt and Jason Kendall, and players like such.
Granted, a paradigm shift is needed. In some cases, we have to wait for a new generation of GMs to come along, so that the current ones who read stats like a random assortment of numbers can leave.
Remember how people who used computers 20 years ago were seen as dorks (i.e. Revenge of the Nerds)? Well, people using sabermetrics today who are seen as nerds (at least, according to Ken Rosenthal) will become the norm 20 years from now, and rake in the big bucks! We are next in line, and this is our opportunity to break ground!
(Wow, I have some sharp memory there…)
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
unfortunately
the paradigm is already shifting, and the Mets seem to be this generations Red Sox. Eventually one day they might jump on the sabermetric bandwagon, but like with Pumpsie Green it might be too little too late.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I don't even think they need to jump on the sabremetric bandwagon
there are plenty of teams that build and contend without being all about numbers. We just don’t seem to draft/develop/scout/spend well either.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
The Mets Front Office
Needs to take baby steps and jump on the common sense bandwagon first. Then, maybe we can start to invest a smidgeon of faith that the front office begins to care about what is in style now, what may be an antiquity in the future. Yep… it may be too late after all!
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
Wow I didnt realize how much better Bannister was last season
and he hasn’t killed anyone!
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Ambriorix F*cking Burgos
That trade bothers me to the core.
President of the Ramses Barden Fan Club
by Hoyadestroya85 on Dec 17, 2009 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Any hitters?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
It may not be because of numbers specifically but
it could help that they understand the value of a walk, for example in Jose’s interview he brought up how important it was to walk more. Frenchy seems to not understand that.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Brian Bannister?
This Brian Bannister:
http://www.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=446454
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
His FIP last year was 4.14
Which would have made him the second best pitcher on the mets by a land slide.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Hell even his 4.73 ERA would have made him the second best pitcher on the mets
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Wow I didnt realize how much better Bannister was last season
and he hasn’t killed anyone!
I get you on this one. And the thought of that really hurts!
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
Look or listen to Reyes’ interview from today. He talks about having good numbers for a shortstop, needing to walk more, etc. The anti-Francoeur. Not all athletes are mindless animals. (See Zack Greinke also)
by Brooklyn Tar Heels on Dec 17, 2009 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
Sam is not happy
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 17, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
this is not news, unfortunately.
still…huh?
Fantasy Football=/=Sabermetrics
Like, at all. COMPLETELY different.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
You know, I think he's just messing with "statheads"
He seems like a goofy dude, and I think maybe he says stuff like this to bait people
Then again, he may just be not all that bright.
He seems like a genuinely good guy, but I doubt his friends ask him fo stock tips.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 16, 2009 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe they did once or twice
but at some point, you just start to know that the only thing he’s going to tell you is Delta.
I just got an image of Jeff Francouer sitting in a judge's chambers
being asked an important question of law, and after hearing debate on both sides of the issue, he sits for a minute in deep though, then answers “delta”
This image made me laugh
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
I get the same kinda vibe.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 16, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
that is kind of fun
i have to admit
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 16, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
the baiting that is
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 16, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
Here's what Francoeur had to say on that when questioned by Cerrone:
Matthew Cerrone: Yesterday, you did a chat with MLB.com, and on it you were asked a question that compared On-Base-Percentage guys to RBI guys, and you said one does one thing, and one does the other. But, it seems to me you would want to do both. What is the difference, and what did you mean by that?
Jeff Francoeur: Well, I think you obviously want to do both. But, you look at a guy that I played with in Atlanta this year, Garrett Anderson, who’s had a heck-of-a career and his OBP isn’t that great. I think you learn as you go. I’m still 25 and I’m learning different things, learning the strikezone and hopefully I will continue to get better at that; but, at the same time, I’m not going up there thinking to walk, thinking about this or that, if there is a guy on second or third I’m gonna try to drive him in – that’s my first priority. Whether I ground out or fly out or whatever, I want to get him in and do my best to help the team. I think as you learn more you’re OBP goes up; but, I think for me, that’s not something I just think about. I know to a lot of statistical people OBP seems to be a huge thing… 15 to 20 years ago it wasn’t a big deal… and all of a sudden it is.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
I could misunderstand
but it seems to me that that’s not a very good approach. Coming up with a guy on 2nd and thinking I have to drive him in rather than I have to extend the inning, depending on where you’re hitting at least.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
He actually says
that he sometimes tries to ground out to second or short when there’s a man on third and no outs.
Tries to ground out.
by Andrew McCarthy on Dec 17, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
i think he means tries to hit the other way to advance the runner
which is good ball playing, although he phrased it very poorly. You want a guy to hit between first and second with a runner on 3rd, but you should really hope it goes through the hole and isn’t fielded.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 17, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
That's good ballplaying.
But hitting the ball “to the shortstop if he’s back” doesn’t seem to be. Maybe that’s poor phrasing again, I’m not sure. My brain’s fried from studying.
by Andrew McCarthy on Dec 17, 2009 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
know the feeling
im guessing he just means hitting behind the runner, because nobody really celebrates groundouts to short
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 17, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
His reasoning:
Garrett Anderson doesn’t have a good OBP and I think he’s good. People didn’t care about OBP 20 years ago. OBP isn’t on the scoreboard. Therefore, OBP doesn’t matter.
And if someone was going to ask, why was it Cerronepede?
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 16, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
And this is news, how?
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
According to VORP data
K. Takahashi is better than K-Rod and that Nelson Figueroa is better than Pedro
Feliciano. Have you seen Takahashi and Figueroa pitch? Explain?
Where did you read that data?
Looking at Fangraphs:
Takahashi: .01
K-Rod: .03
Figueroa: .06
Pedro Feliciano: .06
The data does not show Takahashi being better than K-Rod, or Figueroa being better than Feliciano.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 16, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
He said VORP
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 16, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
VORP has a lot of flaws
BUt FIggy wasn’t bad; .6 WAR in 70.1 innings for the major league miniumum
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 16, 2009 7:36 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly,
Precisely my point, that statistics can be very misleading and unreliable when used for
evaluation, unless adjustments are incorporated
Statistics aren't misleading
They are simply a record of what happened.
by vivaelpujols on Dec 17, 2009 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Remember this
“There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.”
Just because someone had good stats the last two or three years, doesn’t mean that it is an indicator of things to come. Statistics are records, but taken at face value, records are interchangeable with history. And heck, if I knew the history of the future, I would win the lottery every single day!
There’s a point to all this, but statistics ARE useful! Just, not the binding word of the future, but trends and consequences serve as an example – that is the point of history.
Those who do not learn their history today are doomed to repeat it tomorrow.
My point here is that history (and sabermetrics) serves as an important example of how to best predict and plan for the future to obtain the highest probability of desired outcomes, which is why in sports betting, sabermetrics and stats are so highly prized!
There, it has all been said. There’s nothing to misinterpret.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
Nobody has ever said that stats predict the future
They describe the past. It’s up to people to interpret them the right way
by vivaelpujols on Dec 17, 2009 2:25 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
To intuitively understand how to interpret sabermetrics is really taking a history lesson on how baseball players with a given set of attributes perform. Any progressive trends that can be correlated between similar players can give some good predictors of what could be expected for those kinds of players today. (Those who understand differentials in calculus and have a keen knowledge of sabermetrics are best suited to show us examples of these.)
If measures of extrapolation can accurately match actual output with a close correlation (+0.80 or better), there is credibility in adhering to those trends, and using the suggested examples.
Now that I think about it, math and history really do have a lot in common… which is contrary to the consensus of grammar school methodology.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
statistics don't lie, but liars use statistics
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 17, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
well
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that we should qualify this “statistics are just a record” stuff by acknowledging that many of the statistics we use here have interpretation built into them. Advanced stats like WAR weigh certain events in certain ways that represent their author’s best analytical guess at how these events effect the outcome of ballgames and help determine a player’s value to a team. These “guesses” are, of course, based on hard evidence, but we have to admit that WAR presents itself as something more than record-keeping.
by Pack Bringley on Dec 17, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
maybe we should be careful
to differentiate between statistics (mere record-keeping) and metrics (engines by which statistics become things like WAR.)
by Pack Bringley on Dec 17, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
agreed, there is a fine line between the two
WAR is a predictor, whereas stats are historical records.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 17, 2009 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
WAR isn't a predictor
It measures the wins above replacement a player provided for a certain amount of time.
i consider it a predictor of hypothetical past events
I think RAR is a direct historical measurement, since runs generated and saved can be directly measured for each individual. WAR on the other hand requires the abstract concept of a win. I see WAR as a predictor because it estimates how many wins the team would have lost had this player been swapped for a replacement level player. There is no direct way to measure whether or not the team would have won with the hypothetical replacement level player. Therefore you are predicting what would have happened had the scenario been different.
That being said, since WAR is standardized for every player in the league it still provides a valuable way of comparing the value of two players, and I am in no way saying it doesn’t serve a valuable purpose.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 17, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, based on what I saw on Fangraphs.com,
RAR = 10 * WAR
Proven each and every time. RAR is always 10 times the amount of WAR.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
no, the way VORP is computed has flaws
And is not as good as WAR
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
by firejerrynow on Dec 17, 2009 6:43 AM EST up reply actions
ummm
He’s a player…not a talent evaluator. Stats should mean nothing to him. Go out and play your best.
Now if Omar came out and said this…that’s news.
Totally.
Unless the guy’s on my fantasy team, I don’t want him worrying about the box score. And it’s not like I’m going to draft him either.
by Jamesir Bensonmum on Dec 16, 2009 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
I sort of agree with this
except that he clearly has 0 interest in taking a walk, ever. I don’t care if he’s not focusing on his stats, but he should at least understand that taking a walk is good for the team and be willing to do that.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
interesting point, but...
I’m not sure his eye or patience level would change with a better understanding of OBP and its value. But honestly, maybe I’m wrong. Maybe he thinks a single is so much better than a walk that its worth swinging at a pitch 10 feet out of the strike zone.
by Mike Clemente on Dec 16, 2009 9:20 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's that people think his patience will change
It’s the fact he’s completely flippant about even trying to change it and seems to just plain not care.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Well...
… “paperwork = false hustle” is like a coded version of same, innit?
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Dec 16, 2009 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
True, but
Francoeur is missing the point of all this! If he (clearly) knows that taking a walk would benefit the team, and his job is to do just that, then why the hell not!? In sum, Jeff Francoeur is stubborn. Nice guy, perhaps, but not the brightest bulb (or sharpest knife) of the pack. He is NOT the student of the game that Delgado is.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
Walking helps teams win.
Jeff Francoeur says walking doesn’t matter. If he can improve his hitting through walking, that would help the team.
speaking of sabremetrics...
why are we playing the season out when the red sox have acquired or are about to acquire all talent that is not currently signed by the Bronx bummers?? /(over)reacting to Adrian Gonzolez rumors
WARriors, discuss!
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
So at the end of the season when the mets fall short again
We can watch awesome Omar press conferences.
seriously, I dare not think of a player i might like to see on the Metz
for fear that Theo is reading my thoughts and will acquire that player
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 16, 2009 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
If this worked in inverse...
… it might be the only way to get rid of Ollie’s contract.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Dec 16, 2009 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
Theo Epstein runs baseball’s Ministry of Truth! Let’s not forget that Bill
James after all is “Senior Advisor/Baseball Operations” of the Red Sox!
Perhaps, Theo Epstein is a puppet figure! Bill James could really be the head honcho of Yawkey Way. So if you wish to purchase the Bill James handbook, you may secretly be providing funding for the Red Sox to acquire talent… think about it.
I might be a conspiracy theorist, but I’m not crazy.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
I don't care that Francoeur doesn't care about sabermetrics,
I care that he’s bringing his ignorance and 93 lifetime OPS+ for a RFer along with below average defense to my team. That’s enough to negate a strong season from Jose Reyes. That’s what I care about.
My comment
here. There’s reason he should care.
"The picture looked like I was in the dugout, but they got it all wrong. I absolutely was never in the dugout."
- Mr. B.V. Incognito
just as homercles cares not for beans
winceour cares not for sabermetrics.
Lets hope that when gut check time comes again the Mets will pass it with flying colors.
This is absolutely unrelated to anything being discussed
but it was something I was just thinking of. How would you guys feel if you were life-time mets fans, like all of you are, and played baseball and were drafted by the mets and came up in their system started for them for 4 years was one of the young faces of the franchise, even if undeserving so, so like you’re dream come true, and then next thing you know you were traded to the Phillies? Cause that’s kind of what happened with Frenchy. Like I imagine if i was a professional athlete it would be different but i’m not sure if i could stomach playing for the Phillies, though a few million would make it hurt less.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
I think our mentalities are different as fans.
We love to root for the Mets, we want the Mets to win. Most of us realized at some point in time that we weren’t going to be professional athletes (I’m still holding out hope though!) so we resigned to being fans. Francoeur’s goal in life was to play professionally regardless of where. I believe that by the time he was a high school star, his priority was to get drafted, not play for the Braves.
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
It's probably different for each of us
Frenchy in particular seems to not be very concerned with anything in life except for frequent flyer miles and style, so it’s not wonder he’s unfazed by it. If I became a player tomorrow, I think I’d probably refuse to play for the Phillies and Yankees (even if it meant giving up a little bit of money) just because it would make me feel like a badass, but I’d probably play pretty much anywhere else. I think I’d only play for the Phillies if it looked like that was my only shot of sustaining my career.
I think even if you're a fan of a team
you are not nearly as invested in that team while you’re still playing, especially at a high level. Like Evan said, once we all realize that playing for the Mets wasn’t gonna happen we became invested in them solely as fans and diehard ones at that. My guess is that even if Frenchy came up a Braves fan, he was never a Braves fan in remotely the same way we are Mets fans, because he was still playing ball and thinking about his future in baseball and not what the Braves were doing. I don’t think coming to the Mets is what would bother Francoeur, I think it’s being told by the Braves that his dream job of playing for them was over because he sucked at baseball.
This is going to sound conceited, but as someone
Who was receiving letters to tryout for some of the higher level D-1 college teams (so pretentious sounding… I’m so sorry…) and had the very distant thoughts of someday getting drafted (would never have happened) I would have played for anyone, saying you wouldn’t play for the Phillies if they drafted you tomorrow is easy cus you haven’t worked your whole life towards getting drafted like the people that get drafted are. The reason why ended up not going for baseball in college is cus how much awful work and nose rubbing it took, but if the Yankees had actually called and said we’ll sign you for 12 buckets of peanuts I would have been thrilled. I mean has anyone really ever heard of someone refuse to be drafted by a team that they weren’t a fan of (maybe unless they were the no. 1 pick going to get 12 mill wherever they went)…
Travis Hafner is made of gold
by Super Mario on Dec 17, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I played on a summer league team with a kid who was getting some draft buzz & ended up at a big-time D-1 program
he was a big time Yankees fan, & he always said that he would play for whoever drafted him, but if/when he became a free agent he would sign with the Yankees or their farm system. I wasn’t very close with him (other than the summer league we never had contact), and I don’t really know what happened to him, but I don’t think he ever did get drafted.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Exactly
I don’t think anyone would really just walk away from playing professional baseball because they grew up disliking the team that offered them a contract. And I’m sorry if my previous post made me sound dooshy to anyone that read it
Travis Hafner is made of gold
Well, Jackie Robinson retired rather than play for the Giants.
He didn’t grow up a Dodgers fan, but he was loyal as hell to that franchise. Me? It’s easy for me to say this sitting on my couch, but I like to think that if I had any control over it, I wouldn’t ever play for the Yankees or the Phillies. And I’m stubborn enough that it’d probably be true.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 17, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
It's different as a free agent though
If you’re choices are play for the team or walk away from your dream would you still be stubborn enough?
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
yea
I’ve always imagined a scenario where I was awesome at baseball and was either drafted by or traded to the Yankees – in this scenario, I helped the Yanks win a World Series, and then when I was a free agent I shocked everyone by signing a cheaper contract for the Mets and offering to switch positions (b/c they would have already had an awesome 3rd baseman, which sure enough was the only part of my fantasy scenario that turned out true), and then I helped the Mets win the World Series.
In real life I’m a poor, miserable law student whose about to take a job that I’m 95% sure I’m gonna hate. Man, I wish I were a kid again.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Katie Holmes or Britney Spears
pre-crazy. Both of them.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Britney's made a comeback of sorts
At least on the crazy front. She also looks better than she did just a couple years ago. Peacing K-Fed probably had a lot to do with it.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 18, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's different.
I suppose I’d bite the bullet and play for the Bankees, and then get out of there as fast as I could.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 17, 2009 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
Not if
You are like these people getting drafted, they train incredibly hard to be able to get drafted their entire lives, and for the most part do not have a super great backup plan. From my dealings with it even just going to college workouts, you have to travel all around the country many times to get exposure, not to mention work out all year, meet coaches, etc. At some point, it becomes a job (why I quit) where you gruel through physical labor 85% of the time, gruel through traveling and meeting weird dooshy coaches and players 10% of the time, and actually playing 5% of the time. I’ll say that since I quit playing I’ve gotten way more into watching the Mets games too, haha.
P.S. I saw beneath you sort of conceited this point already, but I had already written it so I’m just gonna post it.
Travis Hafner is made of gold
Oh yeah I'm definitely not saying he would refuse to play with someone
i’m saying it must be weird to have what was probably his ultimate dream, not only playing but being a franchise face for his favorite team, I’m from Georgia and I watch a lot of braves broadcasts/sports south things on the braves cause there’s nothing else to do in this God forsaken state and he was a HUGE braves fan and then to not only be traded but to be traded to one of their biggest division rivals.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Oh my points of contention
weren’t for you, it was more for the person who said they would turn down an offer from the Yankees or Phillies because it would be badass.
Travis Hafner is made of gold
I have to say
if I were a free agent and the only two teams who were pursuing me were the Yankees and the Phillies, I’d definitely sign with the Yankees. At least I’d be able to live in New York.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
If Sabermetrics was used to measure the performance of
Delta Airlinez, then it would be meaningful.
Especially the “On Time” stat.
you know what I'm sayin' ?
Ugh. Who cares.
Wade Boggs ate chicken because he thought it made him hit better. What a dope. There’s a guy you’d never want on your team.
Entire teams wear rally caps. That makes sense, huh?
Everyone had a hard-on for Mike Cameron. If you asked Mike what UZR means, do you honestly think he has any idea, or cares? I’d venture no and no.
The fact that a ballplayer doesn’t masturbate over Fangraphs means nothing to me.
Like earlier people have said, leave it to the front office to evaluate players. If Omar blasts statistical measures, that’s more of a problem.
If Pujols says wOBA is nonsense, are you going to get pissed and not want him on your team?
i think the problem isn't that he doesn't care about stats
it’s that he doesn’t understand the value of a walk, reyes probably can’t spout off stats but he understands why it’s important to walk more and changes his approach. frenchy basically said he goes up there trying to move the runner over by any means necessary, even if it means grounding out, rather than extending the inning because he doesn’t see the value in walking.
"We have a plan, and our plan, I like our plan'
it's Omar's world, we're just livin in it.
Great arbiter, thank you for gracing us with your presence and swift judgment
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
"If Pujols says wOBA is nonsense, are you going to get pissed and not want him on your team?"
Of course not, that’s silly. But then, Albert Pujols is amazing at baseball.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 18, 2009 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
this
I don’t care if he doesn’t care about the stats. But if Pujols came out and said “wOBA is nonsense, therefore I’m going to stop taking walks b/c walks are nonsense, I’m gonna try to ground out so I can advance baserunners” then, yea, I’d get pissed and not want him on my team. Although I think Pujols would suck at sucking.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
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