Billy Wagner Signs With The Braves, Mets Look Really Dumb

by Sam Page on Dec 2, 2009 1:43 AM EST Comment 59 comments

The Braves just signed Billy Wagner to a one-year, $7 million dollar deal with a vesting option. Besides the obvious pain of the Braves improving by adding a player that was very good for the Mets, the Red Sox now get the 20th pick in the draft and a supplemental first round pick, both of which the Mets would have received if they had just hung onto Wagner until the end of the season. Instead, the Mets got two non-prospect minor leaguers, Chris Carter in Eddie Lora, who I seriously doubt will ever be useful to a major league team, especially in the National League.

Defenders of the trade said that Wagner would not decline arbitration (wrong) and that the Mets saved ~3.5MM as part of the deal. Great, the Mets opted for 3.5MM dollars instead of two first-round draft choices. Hey, guess what Alex Cora and Chris Coste are going to make combined next season? Basically, just imagine a crappy political cartoon showing a bunch of office-drones with shovels next to two pits, one that is just a bonfire and the other that is labeled "major league talent," and they're shoveling all the money into the fire pit. That's the Mets front office in a nutshell.

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Beautiful imagery.

Nightmare fuel. Thanks.

by The 'Ropolitans on Dec 2, 2009 1:45 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Oy

This hurts.

by danielj on Dec 2, 2009 1:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Man, I'm tellin' ya

The idea that all of us reasonable Mets fans here on AA should gather to forcefully overthrow the Wilpons & Omar and take over the Mets (similar in a way that all of Indonesia overthrew Suharto) is looking more and more like a brilliant idea with each passing dumbass move they make.

Beer is good! And stuff!

by R_Adragna on Dec 2, 2009 1:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Again

The logic here is clearly specious. What makes you think a team that traded Billy Wagner for spare parts and a few million bucks (not to mention signed Alex Cora for $2 million and gave Chris Coste a guaranteed contract, among countless other travesties) would actually have offered Billy Wagner arbitration?

Get reals.

by Eric Simon on Dec 2, 2009 1:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Are you saying the Mets only make logical moves?

by The 'Ropolitans on Dec 2, 2009 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Is that what you think I'm saying?

I’m saying Sam’s logic is murky.

by Eric Simon on Dec 2, 2009 1:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course not.

That was supposed to be dripping in sarcasm. My B.

I realize what you’re saying. But I’m saying anything’s possible with this team.

You’re probably right in the long run, anyway.

by The 'Ropolitans on Dec 2, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

True

My guess is that, had the Mets held onto Wagner, they would’ve said, “We already have one closer. What if Wagner accepts arbitration?!? Two closers!?!? We saw how well that worked last season with Putz!”. Hence, no arbitration.

by Eric Simon on Dec 2, 2009 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Like mice in a maze with no end.

by The 'Ropolitans on Dec 2, 2009 1:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sam's headline would still apply

by Mount17 on Dec 2, 2009 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm no master of logic but

Sam’s logic is solid enough. Just because the Mets may have countered one smart move (holding on to Wagner) with a dumb move (not offering arbitration), it doesn’t make the first move any less dumb.

Holding on to Wagner had risk, but the expected return was higher than trading him for non-prospects. Granted, the move wasn’t really THAT dumb, because we didn’t know that Wagner would pitch so well after being traded.

But the Mets definitely LOOK dumb and the Sox look smart—which is Sam’s title of the post and his main point. Looking dumb is a weaker argument , but it’s pretty hard to argue otherwise after the fact.

by DoghouseBlues on Dec 2, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Heh

I’m having fun with Sam. And with the Mets. Sam’s post is perfectly fine, but the Mets almost certainly wouldn’t have offered Wagner arbitration so unfortunately Sam’s thoughts are like fireworks for the blind.

by Eric Simon on Dec 2, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm

Fireworks for the Blind would be a good name for a post-rock album

by deadspy3 on Dec 2, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just when I thought you may have conceded the point

you had to go and make the fireworks for the blind comment :p If you’ll excuse me, Sam and I have to go organize an orchestra for the deaf. I’m also thinking of arranging for full-body massages for the Quadrapalegic Society.

by DoghouseBlues on Dec 2, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Flagged for trolling.

by Sam Page on Dec 2, 2009 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

"Mets Look Really Dumb"

that pretty much sums up the post-2006 Omar Minaya era.

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 2, 2009 2:05 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

i think you can go back a little farther than that

by Gina on Dec 2, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Does anyone here know what it's like to root for a well run organization?

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Dec 2, 2009 2:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

There's a lot of knicks and nets fans in here

so no

by Gina on Dec 2, 2009 2:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm actually a steelers fan so yes

but once the NBA season/MLB off-season signings begin there’s more than enough fail to spread around.

by Gina on Dec 2, 2009 3:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the Nets aren't poorly run

I mean, they’re handicapped by their location and their lousy ownership, but the front office is really sharp (I think). Turning an aging Jason Kidd into Devin Harris and drafting Brook Lopez were great moves, and while this season is a disaster, they’ve got loads of cap space and (presumably) a top-4 draft pick coming in the spring.

Somehow, a chain of events unfolded that put Steve Phillips in a professional broadcast booth Sunday night so he could rip Carlos Beltran. Try to explain that in any other terms.

by Greenpoint Ian on Dec 2, 2009 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think their front office is now

But up until the last year or so I thought they were poorly run. i think Kiki becoming general manager made a HUGE difference. Before then they’re drafting was kind of awful there was no focus on developing the players they did draft, and they not only hung onto the aging core for too long they give Carter that ridiculous extension, which luckily they were able to move. I’m hoping the switch to head coach is just temporary and he goes back to being the full time gm soon.

Also I’m convinced they even if they go 0-82 they’re going to end up with like the 7th pick, which may not even be possible but I’m sure it will happen.

by Gina on Dec 2, 2009 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right.

It’s not the management that’s the problem. It’s that Bruce Ratner is a lousy owner. He immediately started gutting the team so he could make a big splash right before he thought he’d be moving into a new arena. Now there may not be a new arena, and it’s hard to imagine any big-ticket FA signing with that team, unless the Nets overpay by a huge amount.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 2, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't that Russian guy the majority owner now?

Also i thought Atlantic Yard finally got approved?

i remember when reports were saying they’d be moving to Brooklyn by 2010… funny how that turned out.

by Gina on Dec 2, 2009 6:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The court finally ruled that they can use eminent domain for the Atlantic Yards

But Ratner still has to sell the bonds and break ground before the end of the year, and the bonds are probably going to be the issue, given the state of the economy. There’s just not much financing right now for new arenas. I think the Russian doesn’t actually control the team yet, but they did reach an agreement for him to take a controlling interest in the team and the Barclay’s Center. IIRC, he can back out if they don’t break ground. If only there were a Nets SB Nation blog where I could check these things.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 2, 2009 11:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

Thankfully I’ve got the Devils.

by Eric Simon on Dec 2, 2009 2:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lucky you

I root for the Mets and Jets. At least the Giants are my second favorite team, but I don’t follow their organization like I do the Jets.

"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."

by Evan_S on Dec 2, 2009 2:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Go Pacers

by RIPShea on Dec 2, 2009 9:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I support Arsenal FC

in the Barclays Premier League, so I get some relief.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 2, 2009 6:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They are very well run

and they have a great organisational philosophy of developing talent and playing beautiful football. Unfortunately they got pasted by Chelsea at the weekend which didn’t help my team (Man. Utd)

by deadspy3 on Dec 2, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, well that was always going to happen

It seems that stuff that happens to them (ie injury to van persie) hurts them psychollogically.
Man United also have a history of developing players, though none have really come out since Beckham, Scholes, Giggs and the Nevilles, though Gibson looks promising.

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 2, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Arsenal, LOL

A team who hasn’t won anything in years, hamstrung by the new stadium build and who have been in “rebuilding mode” for 5 years. With boardroom politicking and no clear long term plan? Hammered 3-0 by Chelsea on Sunday. I think you should rethink that comment. True they are not Omar/Wilpon dumb, but they can’t forever use the “young players” excuse. Lucky to make Top 4 this season I’m afraid – and that will hurt them financially, bad style.

are you for the pigbull tripetreshen

by metfanintheuk on Dec 3, 2009 7:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a

Mets, Islanders, and Detroit Lions fan. You think the Mets are bad? Try rooting for a team run by Matt Millen. The Mets are a joy.

by Alex Nelson on Dec 2, 2009 7:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Your poor, poor child

What the hell did your parents do to you?

If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.

by meigs1414 on Dec 2, 2009 8:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm going to guess Alex was a barry sanders fan growing up and stuck with that sinking ship

I jumped to the Jets, with, to be kind, mixed results.

Also a UConn basketball fan. So one of my team’s knows how to win

by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Dec 2, 2009 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jesus, how does that even happen?

And I thought my childhood was filled with lousy teams.

by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 2, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Redskins?

It’s one thing to be the Lions with Millen, it’s another to root for a team that makes big moves every year, all seeming to move them in a lateral direction. :(

ain't had enough...

by BlackOps on Dec 2, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I pull for the Devils and Patriots, so yes!

Beer is good! And stuff!

by R_Adragna on Dec 2, 2009 9:10 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a Giants fan

So, despite their recent slide, yes, I do get to root for at least one well-run organization.

by dcmetsfan on Dec 2, 2009 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

the Giants

thank God. Also, call me an optimist, but I like Garth Snow – I think he knows what he’s doing and the Islanders are on their way back.

by cjmulrain on Dec 2, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

by boom_roasted on Dec 2, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

sure, this looks bad now, but

there was no way the Mets would have offered Arb to Wags. In hindsight maybe they should have considered doing so… but there was also the risk that Wags could have broken down in the final 3 weeks of the season or imploded once or twice and thus impairing his marketability. It was just a risk that mgmt wasn’t willing to take. I kind of see their point…. keeping him could have blown up in their faces especially with the way the season had been going up to that point.

by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 2, 2009 9:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I agree, more or less

I am not one to shy away from criticism of Mets management, but I’d put this in the category of “arguable decisions.” When they traded Wagner, he had all of what, one major league appearance on the year? Sure, his extremely-small-sample-size minor league performance was promising, but there was no way of knowing what the future would hold. At the time, it was entirely conceivable that he’d either blow out his arm or suck the rest of the year – making an offer of arbitration pretty much impossible from the Mets’ perspective – a or at least be mediocre enough that an arbitration offer would be risky. As it turns out, the Red Sox made out well and it’s easy to bash it in hindsight, but it could have easily gone the other way.

by dontstopbelieving on Dec 2, 2009 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Plenty of people

were bashing it with foresight.

by Mount17 on Dec 2, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If he breaks down then don't offer him arbitration

All we got from the trade was a few million in salary relief and non-prospect,s it’s not like there would be much of a loss in not trading him.

by Gina on Dec 2, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

if he breaks down, so what? you owe him an extra 3 million bucks that you already budgeted to pay him?

by Bieser's Balk on Dec 2, 2009 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure that even the Mets would have offered arbitration to Wagner.

Wagner signed with the Braves only a few hours after it was announced that Wagner was offered arbitration. It wouldn’t be a stretch to say that Wagner told the Sox about the Braves’ interest so they offered him arbitration.

by boom_roasted on Dec 2, 2009 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oops.

You don't cheer for the Mets. You drink for the Mets.

by Kevin H on Dec 2, 2009 9:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Stupid is

as stupid does.

by fxcarden on Dec 2, 2009 10:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

only half of this is news.

"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw

by squid92 on Dec 2, 2009 10:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Lets me guess

it’s not the Mets looking dumb is it?

"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"

by firejerrynow on Dec 2, 2009 5:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Typical Mets

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 2, 2009 11:31 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

ABOUT WAGNER

the mets are being hammered for not retaining wagner…..although I like wagner in
kc, sd, or some other place and he still throws hard he was somewhat of a failure in
ny due to 2006 playoffs v cardinals…..sometime one must move on.. good luck billy
w. against everybody except the METS….

by 1969met on Dec 2, 2009 5:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs