Obligatory Bengie Molina Objection Post
The Giants declined to offer arbitration to free agent catcher Bengie Molina, allowing his future team to sign him without fear of additional penalty in the form of draft pick compensation to San Francisco. It also seemingly clears the way for the unholy union between Molina and the Mets, not that something like draft pick compensation would've stood in the way between Omar Minaya and a lousy baseball decision (we weren't going to sign that draft pick anyway!).
Even though the Mets have already handed a guaranteed contract to Chris Coste and have seemingly signed Henry Blanco to back somebody up, I'd peg the odds at 50-50 that Molina winds up in Queens. How bad would that be? It depends on the contract, but probably pretty bad. Molina has been worth around two wins with his bat in each of the past five seasons, which is pretty solid, especally for someone who only plays 120-130 games a year. If that were the end of the story, you could make a reasonable case that a one-year deal worth $5 million with a second-year option might be a decent investment. Molina's bat probably wouldn't be worth much more than that, but there's no shame in merely getting your money's worth.
The problem, as you've probably already guessed, is that there's more to baseball than just hitting, and that's where the case for Molina falls apart. In addition to offensive contributions we also have to consider defense and baserunning.
Evaluating catcher defense is tricky business, but two recent efforts have made positive strides towards usefulness. This post by Matt Klaasen at Driveline Mechanics breaks down a catcher's credits and debits into "caught stealing runs", "wild pitch/passed ball runs", "throwing error runs", and "fielding error runs". By this method, Molina clocks in at -3.4 runs, or minus one-third of a win. Then we have this post by Chuck Brownson at Beyond The Boxscore, which also includes run totals for "baserunning" and "misses", but also incorporates "reputation", or the likelihood that a runner won't steal based on the catcher's rep. Molina charts at -7.06 runs above average.
Things don't get any better for Molina when he takes to the bases (something he managed to do on his own in just 28.5% of his plate appearances last year). Regularly considered one of the slowest runners in the league, Molina was worth -4.5 EqBRR in 2009. The Bill James Handbook has him down at -17 bases, which is probably about the same as his EqBRR in terms of runs (I'm not sure of the translation from bases to runs; obviously it depends somewhat on which 'base' we're talking about).
If we add up Molina's debits for defense and baserunning, plus factor in another year of age-related decline, we're pretty close to ten runs (or one win) to the bad. Now we've gone from a two-win player with the bat to a one-win player overall, which is hardly anything worth falling over yourself to acquire. For comparison, Omir Santos was worth between one-half of a win (StatCorner) and one win (FanGraphs) with his bat last year in just a half-season, and the defensive metrics rate him quite favorably (Klaasen had him at +2.4; Brownson at +14.5!), though his baserunning was as bad as Molina's (-3.0 EqBRR). If we say that his defense and baserunning 'offset' each other, we're still left with a near-one-win catcher making the league minimum, which makes it pretty tough to justify paying Molina dramatically more than that.
Someone is going to give Bengie Molina two guaranteed years at $6-8 million; I just hope it isn't the Mets.
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i know everyone is thinking this too, but
How could the Metz even be thinking about displacing OMIR sanTos? That guy has lightning in his hands, lasers in his eyes, and ice water in his veins.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
and one time
he hit a homerun off papelbon in the ninth.
By the way did you know that Fernando Tatis once hit two grandslams, IN THE SAME INNING.
Omir Santos:
Is a stand-up guy
Is a class act.
Has heart.
Is a gamer.
Gets his uniform dirty.
Is a winning player.
Gets those kind of hits
Makes those kinds of plays
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 2, 2009 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
At first I thought
your comment would say something funny if you read the first letter of each sentence going top to bottom. No such luck.
What, Iihigigm isn't funny? Sounds funny.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 3, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
Damn right ES
I could not agree more. I don’t pretend to know the answers, but it would seem to me that Omir’s a bigger positive for the Mets than Molina-CHEAP, nice arm, occasional clutch hit. He’ll probably be even better this year. Just like itsmetsforme said. Why do the Wilpons love Minaya so much? I also want them to hold on to Josey. If he has a heart he has to want to curb this criticism. Mets for life.
What leads you to believe Omir will be better in 2010?
His .657 OPS in the second half of the season? .567 in September?
Or is it the way he adjusted his approach so that he could work the count and hit major league breaking pitches? (Oh wait, he didn’t.)
he's sexy
and reports say he’ll be taller.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
Your judging him on one month? You should follow your boy Brian Schneider to the Phils. Benji is a pile.
by strawspoonage on Dec 2, 2009 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
I guarantee you, he doesn't want Bengie Molina.
He just also doesn’t want Omir…what, two catchers can’t both suck?
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
But he's a Molina!
All of the Molina’s are tremendous catchers who pitchers love, and can also hit a little! It’s amazing! If I were a GM, I’d want all three on my team! /most commentators
Flurg.
It’s gotten to the point where doing any AAOP-ish stuff is like imagining in detail what it might be like to be married to the person of your dreams, your soul’s counterpoint in flesh… while you’re stuck in a marriage you can’t escape to someone who’s so totally wrong for you, and doesn’t even know it.
It’s a slow-motion car-crash.
by LeiterMilnerFasterStronger on Dec 2, 2009 12:39 PM EST reply actions
Jon Heyman is an idiot
so I’m not worried
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
If heyman Said it
it HAS to be true, like the 10,000 rumors he reports and all of them came true didn’t they.
by scott from peekskill on Dec 2, 2009 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
I guess that means we're going to sign all of them.
With all these catchers, we better not have any passed balls next season. I suppose the 2 catcher lineup might be useful with a knuckleballer on the mound.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 2, 2009 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
So we want to keep Santos now? Santos>Molina? or Minimum>7mil?
Bad deal aside, Molina had more Homers and RBI than any single Met player in the entire organization. LOL! Something must be done. God please!
"Bad deal aside"?
That’s the problem: signing him for the rumored years/dollars would be a bad deal. I don’t know that you can just ignore that factor when we have equally mediocre catchers already here that make a fraction of what Molina will probably earn.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 2, 2009 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
if it was Benji for league minimum or Omir for league minimum i'd take Omir
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 2, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, I think I got your tone now.
It’s more of a “wow this team was terrible please have mercy on our souls” thing than a “wow why doesn’t anyone want Molina he had numbers” plea.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 2, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
OMGZ RsBI!!!!
BENGIE=WINZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I ignored the bad deal in the sentence to bring light to the sobering
fact that no met hitter had better traditional power numbers. Injuries aside, if I can say that.
Don't get me wrong
but I find it somewhat disappointing that, while trying to calculate Molina’s value, no effort was made to account for Molina’s “game-calling” ability. So is there an agreement in the sabermetrics community that the “game-calling” (including tutoring the pitcher, etc.) is irrelevant? If yes, what is the explanation of huge Ollie’s splits when pitching to Schneider versus any other pitcher? Small samples? (Even though it’s two years in a row?) These are actual questions though I might sound a bit sarcastic.
I don't know,
but the fact that we cannot measure it does not mean that it’s irrelevant.
I don't think anyones saying its irrelevant
I’m sure people somewhere are coming up with ways to measure it, or trying at least, but it wouldn’t make sense to try and account for it when you have no idea how too. At least imo no information is better than bad information.
Mets are retards of MLB
Such a short time into the baseball off season we have seen too much evidence of why the Mets are the dumbest team. We first give away Wagner to Boston for useless parts and now Boston is getting two draft picks to restock their nasty farm system, and we get two more horrible players to use in our lowly pool of talent. But I mean what team would want three picks in the upcoming draft even before the second round? Only a team that knew what they were doing right, so that wouldn’t be the Mets of course. And they probably would not have signed those picks anyway. Then we make the worst move of overpaying Cora to be our backup who could end up playing the whole season and then we have to overpay him for the next year too. And finally, while Minaya was orchestrating his masterful contract with Cora a possible and very useful catching solution, Kelly Shoppach, is shipped to the Rays as we stand by twiddling our thumbs. But instead we are going to sign an old, slow and not so great defensive catcher in Molina to a 10yr $100m deal. This will be Minaya’s big move to add some power to our lineup. 20 hrs, WOOOO. Thier all f**king stupid as hell.
Boston's farm system
is anything but nasty at this point.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 3, 2009 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
It's not now
But after those picks it will be, especially since they’ll likely let Bay walk. Netting them at worst another sandwhich pick and a 2nd rounder. Which is the same way they turned their farm around in basically one draft back in either 05 or 06.
Benji Molina in chemistry class
His image has been digitally altered to protect his identity. But you can tell it’s him.
"Those who fear disorder more than injustice inevitably produce more of both." -- Rev. William Coffin
how will he get you think?
2 years at 6-8 a year? or was it 2 years at 6-8 mil total (3-4 a year)
this is the problem
Omar is clearly far more interested in supporting the latin players retirement fund than doing what’s in the best interest of the NYMets.
There probably wouldn’t be an outcry if Molina signs a 1 yr deal for $4M…. but based on the Alex Cora contract I’m sure there isn’t a person in the room who thinks 1/4M is at all possible.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 3, 2009 9:21 AM EST up reply actions
Flagged.
Can people stop with the inane “Omar hearts only latin players” nonsense?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 3, 2009 9:28 AM EST up reply actions
you're right...
I didn’t mean to imply that OM is only infatuated with latin players, he’s also very fond of overpaying players past their primes.
Hey, some people need to be a little less sensitive. The record is what it is. Besides, people would be making a similar claim if OM were constantly overpaying any other ethnic group.
by ThnkGoodnessforHowieRose on Dec 3, 2009 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
His vesting option:
If he hits .275+, hits 20 HR+, or drives in 75 RBI, he gets first dibs at the buffet table.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 2, 2009 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
if you guys can find a vest that fits Benji I'd be amazed.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 3, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
you're just worried that if California doesn't lose the weigt that Benji provides it'll drop off into the ocean
and rightfully so
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 3, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
saw this on MLBTR, hope its not referring to us
Sabean added that catcher Bengie Molina “probably has been offered” a multi-year deal by another team, which would essentially guarantee he isn’t coming back to San Francisco.
The only thing that scares me more than benji molina is multi year deals to benji molina.. hope its just conjecture or another team stupid enough to give him a multi year deal.
Please, please, please conjecture...
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 3, 2009 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
im actually hoping for the other team stupid enough to do this option
that way he’s off the table and we cant sign him (and getting benji off the table is tough, especially if there is any food left there)
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 3, 2009 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
The odds of us being that another team is just too high to take.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 3, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions



























