Placido Applesauce - Mets unimpressive farm system, Phils sign Polanco, Braves get Saito
by Joe Budd on Dec 4, 2009 8:00 AM EST
in Applesauce
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Meet the Mets
Baseball America's John Manuel doesn't have a ton of respect for the Met farm system.
Ben Shpigel continues the Bengie Molina to the Mets rumor, highlighting that the Mets are looking for a one year stop gap until Josh Thole is ready.
OK, time to do a little scolding. In response to a link I put up a few days ago, the site Yankeeist got a lot of less than mature comments from Met fans and Amazin' Avenue got the blame. Now, I know that it couldn't have been any of you regular Applesauce readers, but let's try and make an effort to drown out the morons who represent the Mets in these situations.
Around the NL East
Philadelphia didn't go too long without a third baseman, inking Placido Polanco for 3 years/$18 mill. Matthew Pouliot thinks that the Phils could have done better.
The Braves continue to add to their bullpen, signing reliever Takashi Saito.
If Ricky Nolasco was really being shopped around, Omar had better pick up the phone.
Around MLB
Looks like that Dustin Pedroia to shortstop rumor was just some posturing by the Red Sox as they sign Marco Scutaro.
There is a good chance that Seattle is going to replace Adrian Beltre with Chone Figgins. Do the Mariners ever make a bad move anymore?
Jason Marquis is not mad at the Rockies. Promise.
The A's have acquired Jake Fox and Aaron Miles from the Cubs.
The Yankees have issues with The Yankee Universe.
Viva El Birdos realizes that Ray Lankford isn't a Hall of Famer, but makes the case anyway.
Is Joe Crede still a valuable player after yet another back injury?
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I don't think you said anything wrong, Joe
The guy who wrote the article seems pretty knowledgeable, based on his rebuttal. But his first article was pretty immature. “Self-esteem/loathing issues”? Excuse me? It’s called loyalty. You know, rooting for a team even if they might not win 90 games that year. I believe that Larry and many others began rooting for the Yankees when they were bad, but that doesn’t give you an excuse to become a dick when they’re good. And if you feel the need to bully an obviously inferior team after winning your 27th title, then you may deserve a little pity.
I regret
Labeling the writer as “classy” as opposed to the article. I mostly regret the nature of the responses he got though. It just doesn’t make us look very good. He certainly seems like a nice guy mostly just giving us a hard time. I should have made that clearer in the link.
Agree with Prince
Your link and commentary was just fine. You didn’t write “go kiss Jeter’s ass homo” or “go f yourself.” Anonymous Internet commenters did. What you wrote was less ridiculous than their original post. This line from their original post is absolutely deserving of ridicule:
I’ve never fully understood what drives people to root for the Mets over the Yankees
That’s like saying “I’ve never understood what drives people to choose (another religion) over (my religion)”. Just a lot of I’m right, you’re wrong nonsense, with no chance of justifying a point.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 4, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
I'm with these guys.
Keep doing the good work that you’re doing, Joe. You can’t control the WHOLE internets.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 4, 2009 10:13 AM EST up reply actions
I don't get the whole
how you linking it and then some stupid comments is all your fault. People are gonna read that shit and comment on it. You can’t control douches
"We're investigating the investigative procedure of the investigation of Tony Bernazard"---Omar Minaya (he really didn't say it but he would"
yup
his original post was childish, and he can’t pass it off as “dry humor”
Statements like “I don’t understand why anyone roots for the mets” are stupid on so many levels. He’s allowed to make them, and frankly shouldn’t back-pedal from them if that’s his opinion. It’s the internet. I’ve read much more inflammatory and ignorant things about much more important topics. IF you want to be a snarky sports blogger, be my guest, just don’t expect people not to get pissed at you.
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Dec 4, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Jake Fox
Billy Beane just pried him away from the Cubs for free. Great move. And exactly the kind of move (like Shoppach to the Rays) we should be making but never will as long as Omar runs the show.
I know Fox’s fielding is questionable but don’t tell me we couldn’t use his right-handed bat (if not in a platoon at 1B, then at least off the bench — or as a trade chip). And he’s dirt cheap.
This offseason
will seperate the “men from the boys” of the GM world. I really like what the new Mariners GM has been doing especially with that Jack Wilson deal, what they got in return for Putz and this Figgins interest has them looking good down the road.
Omar seems to be outside of the circle a bit, GMs seem to be focused on upside moves for prospects while he is focused on FA signings to bolster the bench. Not where Id be looking right now with all these deals moving but lets see how this turns out. Hes got a monster task ahead and if this doesnt work its time to move in another direction. I just dont see his plan anymore.
separating the men from the boys
and omar’s an infant
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 4, 2009 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
I really like Fox
The guy just mashes the ball. He’s exactly the kind of righty bat they need, and exactly the kind of guy they never pursue. Still pretty young too, that was a great pickup.
by Mackey Sasser on Dec 4, 2009 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Totally agree.
We could have gotten him for peanuts to platoon with Murphy at 1B for a year. Or, worst case, be a right-handed bat off the bench. Or just a chip to trade….
I love baseball america
but John Manuel is nuts if he thinks that the Mets system is that weak. How many players will they have in the top 100? Mejia, Davis, Holt, Niese (if he still qualifies), Fernando Martinez (if he still qulaifies), Flores, etc.
That’s not even counting guys like Havens and Neuwenheius (that cannot be spelled right), who have a chance to be solid major leaguers, and will likely break into the major league level in the next 2-3 years.
I guess these days it’s just fashionable to rip the Metsies.
that clears it up
assuming you can spell “nieuwendyk”
by HotChipWillBreakYourLegs on Dec 4, 2009 2:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Holt won't be in the top 100 and niese won't be either, though he does deserve to be.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Cause holt had a poor showing in AA
And a 23 year old pitcher, who’s still developing his off-speed pitches according to some scouts but I’m not sure how true that is, who struggled in AA just is likely going to fall on prospect lists.
Reread what i wrote
Holt’s ranking ahead of Niese was made after the season ended. Niese’s ranking of 77 was last year, before he made huge strides at AAA (for example, adding his cutter to be more effective against both sides of the plate).
He got injured and he's a Met
Niese is a better prospect than Holt, Rubin did an awful job there so I wouldn’t put much stock into his opinion. Niese should be a top 100 prospect, I just don’t think he will.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I could be wrong
But i’ve been under the impression that, although the writeups are specific to authors, the list order itself is a composite of multiple members of the staff based upon reports from scouts.
It's still an awful list
I don’t know how Urbina can be above Familia, Allen and Nieuwenhuis
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Gotta factor in, though, the Mets' farm system might not be that weak, but if other clubs have better ones, it makes ours look worse.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 4, 2009 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
What I'm factoring in
is that there isn’t enough room in the top 100 for more than 10-15 clubs to be better than the Mets, unless the 10+ clubs that are worse have no decent prospects….can anyone else come up with a reasonable distribution of prospects?
Well it's not just abut top prospects
It’s about depth too, and the mets have little to not depth once you get past their top ten.
The Mets have depth well into the 15's
1. Jenrry Mejia, rhp
2. Wilmer Flores, ss
3. Fernando Martinez, of
4. Ike Davis, 1b
5. Brad Holt, rhp
6. Jon Niese, lhp
7. Reese Havens, 2b/ss
8. Josh Thole, c
9. Ruben Tejada, 2b/ss
10. Juan Urbina, lhp
In no particular order, 5 more guys who are good prospects and easily could have been top 10
1) Familia
2) Marte
3) Nieuwenhuis
4) Robert Carson
5) Kyle Allen
I’m probably leaving out other people who belong there…
As I said above, Rubin did a terrible job.
We have a great top 12 if you ask me, and then a pretty big drop off. I’d have it somewhat like this.
Fernando
Mejia
Davis
Flores
Niese
Holt
Havens
Tejada
Thole
Nieuwenhuis
Familia
Allen
After that there are some solid players, but no one too spectacular right now.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
I'd disagree
I’d say you’re either overrating those guys are underrating other teams. The mets haven’t had guys like in the 10-20 range for years, but most farm systems usually do. There’s a minor league blog on sb, I can’t remember the name right now, and the author usually does top 20 lists for every team and most of them have similar types of 15-20 guys as the mets do.
minorleagueball.com
Sickle’s will hopefully do the Mets within the next few weeks.
"We must win and we must know how to win rather than win because we have statistical people."
Yeah that's it
And I should say I’m not saying the mets deserve to be in the bottom half of the league, just that being around the middle is pretty fair. And I feel like a lot of people only see the glass as half full when it comes to our prospects/farm system.
I'd really disagree.
Everyone I talk to thinks the Mets have a bad farm. So, yeah.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Yeah, I'm with Squid92 here
People generally have a terrible view of the Mets farm system, but I have yet to see a legitimate reason why.
And on another note, there’s a big difference between an average farm system and a bottom 1/3rd farm system.
What happened to Alderin Rodriguez
he was supposed to be some sort of all-world international signing. If they’re ranking this Urbina guy I’m surprised he isn’t mentioned.
Mets' farm
I think we have some decent players on the horizon, but I tend to trust objective farm rankings from respected sources like BA over what Met fans think of our farm.
If BA and Sickels give us a big “meh”, that means more to me than posters inducting Meija, Davis, and FMart into the Hall of Fame.
Just because the Mets have some good minor league prospects, doesn’t mean that they have an average or above average farm system.
Every team has some decent prospects, Mets included. The rankings generally mean that other teams have either more or better or mo’ better prospects than us.
those "objective farm rankings" from BA?
Supplied by Adam Rubin, the guy who’s responsible for the firing of the last head of minor league development in the Mets FO.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
They're not supplied by Rubin
He does the write up, it says multiple times that the lists are compiled by the BA staff. And most prospect rankings seem to say similar things. Plus I think he means the total farm ranking lists, which is far as I know Rubin has nothing to do with.
And I don’t think Rubin fired Benezard, I’m pretty sure Benezard was fired because he’s crazy and unqualified for his job, which most of the media, and mets fans, agreed with well before he was fired.
Ok, well, the writeup is what consists of the analysis. Which would provide any evidence to base any sort of farm rankings.
And Rubin didn’t cause the firing, obviously. I mostly meant that there was a lot of suspicious stuff going on there, and it apparently involved Rubin. So for all we know, he has a grudge or alterior motives against the player development office of the Mets. But yeah, it’s speculation. But there’s definitely some wackiness about Rubin that hasn’t come out.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
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