NOOOOOOOO, NOT BENGIE MOLINA!!!!!

I hate this team

about 2 years ago Evan_S 32 comments 0 recs |

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I can live with 1 year

As long as the team makes the necessary upgrades in other areas.

by Syler on Dec 7, 2009 10:44 PM EST reply actions

We could have had Shoppach and Zaun for cheaper

we could try and get Navarro. I want no part of Molina

"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"

by Evan_S on Dec 7, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions

I know, I'm just trying to accept it at this point

by Syler on Dec 7, 2009 10:58 PM EST up reply actions

It's a report from Heyman, so I'll assume it's not true until something actually happens.

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 7, 2009 10:45 PM EST reply actions

I hope your right

"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"

by Evan_S on Dec 7, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions

But you know, in your heart, don't you Evan?

The only upside is that it’s something like 1/6, and not with a player option for 2011, and NOT 2/12.

by SeanSchirmer on Dec 7, 2009 11:32 PM EST up reply actions

It’s not as if we don’t have a plethora of catchers right now, none of which I’d trust for an entire season. Why make an offer right now, so early in the off-season, when other individuals may still be available, possibly cheaper, and/or other catchers may be non-tendered, who would be preferable? Rhetorical question, of course, since it’s Omar, but…

"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.

by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 7, 2009 10:56 PM EST reply actions

blah

this team never ceases to disappoint.

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2009 11:00 PM EST reply actions

Let's try to be optimistic...

it appears to only be a 1 year deal, not the 3 that Bengie wanted. So that’s a positive. We also have a lot of depth in case of injury, with 5 catchers.

by EtSuKe on Dec 7, 2009 11:02 PM EST reply actions

Like everyone else said the contract isnt that bad

But still, the fact they’re even going after him shows they haven’t made much progress in their player evaluation.

by Gina on Dec 7, 2009 11:10 PM EST reply actions

Omar seemed intent on getting a catcher who could hit..

and he’s going to end up with one that…. can’t

by Syler on Dec 7, 2009 11:12 PM EST up reply actions

At least he won't clog the bases

70 percent of the time.

"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"

by Evan_S on Dec 7, 2009 11:18 PM EST up reply actions

He'll be a large upgrade over

by Syler on Dec 7, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions

Schneider at least

by Syler on Dec 7, 2009 11:24 PM EST up reply actions

Emphasize the "large"

amirite?

"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez

by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 7, 2009 11:27 PM EST up reply actions

It's sad how low our standards have gotten

by Gina on Dec 7, 2009 11:29 PM EST up reply actions

Just trying to look at the brightside

If signing Molina over Zaun is the difference in us not making the playoffs, then it shows how bad the rest of the offseason will have gone.

by Syler on Dec 7, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions

strictly from a jokes next season perspective

this guy would be gold

by KeithsMoustache on Dec 7, 2009 11:36 PM EST reply actions

No. THIS IS AWFUL!

For the price of Molina and Cora we could have picked up Zaun and Polanco. We could have covered injuries and missed time at 2b, ss, and 3b with a decent bat and gold glove defense.

Let’s imagine what the 7-8-9 spots in the lineup will look like in terms of OBP:

Francouer .311
Molina .308
pitcher .100 or so

Now THAT’S an offense that turns the corner!

by SeanSchirmer on Dec 7, 2009 11:39 PM EST reply actions

Polanco had a .331 OBP and a SLG under .400

Not exactly a great bat

But I do agree on Zaun

by Syler on Dec 7, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions

Fangraphs had a convincing analysis of Polanco's 2007-2009,

where they demonstrated his “true” OPS+ was right around 100 every year. IOW, not as good as his sensational 2007, and not the drop off his 2009 suggested.

by SeanSchirmer on Dec 8, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions

to be fair

with the exception of his awful 2008, Castillo’s always had a pretty similar OPS to Polanco, but his has always been more OBP driven, which is the more important aspect to OPS anyway. So he won’t give you the power of Polanco, but he will get on base at a higher clip, and (much as I’d prefer a better catcher), Molina will give you some extra power that Zaun wouldn’t. I would assume that all things considered, if all 4 guys play to their averages next season, that Castillo and Molina would give you just about the same offensive output as Polanco and Zaun (maybe a little lower OBP, depending on how many at-bats Molina has to drag it down). Of course, that doesn’t factor in defense…

"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09

by cjmulrain on Dec 8, 2009 7:10 AM EST up reply actions

For example

I just plugged it into a spreadsheet, and last year these were the results:

Castillo/Molina: 1100 PA’s, .284/.338/.394/.732
Zaun/Polanco: 971 PA’s, .277/.335/.402/.737

An argument could certainly be made that for a punchless team like the Mets, they are better off having a very high OBP guy paired with a low OBP, high SLG guy than they are with two middle of the road OBP & SLG guys. Granted, it’s not good to have multiple guys like that in the lineup (Molina AND Francouer), and like I said above this doesn’t take defense or cost into account, so it’s certainly not the best out come the Mets could have gotten. But on a purely offensive level, the Mets really aren’t losing much here.

by cjmulrain on Dec 8, 2009 7:33 AM EST up reply actions

thoughtful post, although

there are two extremely important factors in favor of Polanco that I feel you haven’t given quite enough credit to:

1) you wrote: “with the exception of his awful 2008 Castillo…” The thing is, we can’t discount it, particularly because it was so bad. That awful season is an important component of any realistic projection for Castillo’s 2010 and 2011. It gives us good reason to believe that’s his downside, if not worse, due to advancing age.

2) you wrote “Of course, that doesn’t factor in defense…” That’s such a huge caveat it essentially negates your argument, imo. Castillo is about as bad as you can get and still be able to write his name in the lineup as a 2bman, while Polanco gives you a gold glove at THREE defensive positions, all three of which the Mets may have very real trouble with in 2010. Not counting defense is like looking at Juan Pierre’s game and deciding that he’s pretty comparable at bat to Carlos Beltran, as long as you don’t count power. It’s just too much to write off.

That said, sure—if you’re just counting offense they’re not miles apart, though taking one year rather than the last three shortchanges Polanco quite a bit, and helps Castillo quite a bit.

by SeanSchirmer on Dec 8, 2009 7:15 PM EST up reply actions

I should have written "Castill is about as bad as you can get with the glove..."

by SeanSchirmer on Dec 8, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions

I'm not arguing that the Mets made the right choice

just trying to at least spin it in a somewhat positive light. Also, if you take the past 3 seasons (including Castillo’s awful ’08), these are the numbers:

Castillo/Molina: .285/.339/.390/.729
Polanco/Zaun: .290/.351/.415/.767

I’m hopeful that Castillo’s ‘08 was an aberration – I think his bounce back 2009 shows that he’s not on a permanent downside to his career. Meanwhile, Polanco’s declined 3 years in a row. Which would you be more suspicious of, a player who has steadily declined 3 years in a row, or a player who hit to his career averages in year 1, had an atrocious year 2, and then hit to his averages again in year 3? One suggests permanent decline, the other suggests statistical aberration, most likely due to injury.

by cjmulrain on Dec 8, 2009 10:35 PM EST up reply actions

But like you said it doesn't factor in defense

and Castillo and Molina lose almost all their offensive value because of their horrible defense, where as Polanco was the 2nd best rated 2nd basemen, by uzr, last year, and as far as I know Zaun isn’t awful. So it kind of results in a massive difference. So despite not losing much offensively we’re still likely getting half the value for more money because of the huge gaps in defense between the pairs.

by Gina on Dec 8, 2009 10:19 AM EST up reply actions

And that's not even taking into account

The value you’ll lose during all the games you can expect Cora to be filling in for Castillo, and even if Castillo stays “healthy” the whole year, which is a big if, he’s going to have to take plenty of games off.

by Gina on Dec 8, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions