Winter Meetings Open Thread
by Sam Page on Dec 10, 2009 2:38 PM EST
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PrintInstead of fanshotting every non-rumor, I suppose this is the best way to do it. For the record, I don't expect anything to happen with the Mets, but post whatever relevant links you find and we'll discuss them in this thread. If things get really slow, I'll try and find some funny pictures from the time I went to the Nashville meetings.
This FanPost was contributed by a member of the community and was not subject to any vetting or approval process. It does not necessarily reflect the opinions, reasoning skills, or attention to grammar and usage rules held by the editors of this site.
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Bet it's cold in CitiField
this time of year.
We should pitch in a get Mr. Met some space heaters for the mound.
Do they have one big enough to cover his head?
If there's ever a riot at Citi Field and Oliver Perez was the starter, I started the riot.
what about trading coaches in other sports
say Phil Jackson for Jerry Manuel….throw in Razor Shines if need be
Manuel for Maradona
and America agrees to injure three Englishmen in the first round of the World Cup.
by Pack Bringley on Dec 9, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Heyman tweet
SI_JonHeyman #mets taking little closer look at lackey after getting sticker shock on middle-rung starters. might rather pay for ace
Could we afford Lackey and Holliday????
depended on price of Lackey (hopefully not AJ money)
would it be so bad to sign Lackey and Mike Cameron?
i feel as though Lackey and Holliday is too much
I agree
if Lackey’s not gonna be that much more expensive than Pineiro or any of those other guys, might as well go with him, right?
Lackey won’t be the best bargain, but he is the best pitcher and would certainly help the Mets next year
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
pretty sure he's going to get more than twice what Pinero et al get
in total dollars. That’s a lot for a pitcher already in his thirties.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:56 AM EST up reply actions
I understand that but
there is a big difference between Lackey and the other FA starters (minus Sheets/Harden)
at least Cameron plays a terrific Outfield and produces. I feel the other pitching choices could turn out to be Ollie contracts.
I'm mixed
Holliday is really, really, really, really awesome, but we can’t afford to go into the season with more question marks in the rotation, and Lackey would fill a massive part of that.
To me Lackey too much one off-season thinking
Rather than long-term thinking. Lackey might make more sense because of holes but I still think he’s going to be WAY overpaid and I think if you sign Holliday, at age 27, with Wright and Reyes still being young you don’t have to put ALL your eggs in one basket this season, where as with Lackey I think you do.
I'm not sure it's just one offseason thinking
Lackey is only 31, and he’s going to want Burnett money at most, and he’ll probably get less than that.
Outside of Santana, we have no one really reliable for next season. Pelfrey will probably improve, but it’s not a given, and who knows about Maine and Ollie.
Lackey has been worth at least $17 million four of the last 5 years, and I don’t see why he would drop of as dramatically as you think he will.
For once, I just would like to know the Mets have two starters who won’t completely implode on any given day
It would be nice to have two decent starters
But it would also be nice to have a 1B and LF who project better than the average NL shortstop.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 8, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe one year it won't be
Hard to imagine its this year, but then again, it was pretty easy to imagine in some of the previous years and that didn’t happen, so who knows.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 9, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
Omar apologist
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 9, 2009 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
I bet Steve Phillips would talk to you now
He’s gotta be so lonely. Oh so lonely.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 9, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
It would be nice if we could get a whole team of David Ecksteins
but this is Los Mets we are talking about
Also it takes legit team building talent
to have a 150 million dollar payroll and still get that type of production.
Hate to say this
But we really do need both. I would have been happy with Holliday and Wolf but now he is gone I think we need Lackey AND Holliday.
Need a #2 that will pitch 200 innings this season to back up Santana
by scott from peekskill on Dec 8, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
if you don't know
I suggest you see a doctor asap
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
here is the real question
Holliday and Piniero and or Marquis,Garland
OR
Lackey and Cameron assuming they even have interest in Mike Cameron.
Yeah but the mets won't play him there
They said they weren’t interested because they didn’t think he’d be valuable in a corner, or something along the lines.
personally I'd rather
move Beltran to LF and Cameron to CF but yea let’s not bring up that incident.
I believe Cameron played RF that fateful day in SD. nt
by madisonmetsfan on Dec 9, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
I was at that game in SD
He was indeed playing RF
by scott from peekskill on Dec 9, 2009 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, see the picture of their faces
and match up the shapes where they stuck into each other. Ugh, horrible day.
I was driving my parents to LaGuardia
I don’t think I’ve ever heard the radio guys like that – I think they would have been less somber if they were announcing Kennedy’s ride through downtown Dallas.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
that's a pretty silly thing to say
considering this is the same front office that signed Carlos Beltran when they already had Mike Cameron. I think they might be a little gunshy after that didn’t work out as planned, but it’s not like they’ve never considered the idea
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Just hypothetically
would you guys rather have Lackey/Cameron or Holliday/Marquis? Assume reasonable money.
I'd rather have Holliday and Marquis
Holliday is a guy who’s going to be worth his contract for years to come. It’s possible Lackey will only be worth his contract the first year of the deal.
Just from the top of my head
He isn’t a power pitcher, but he is solid enough in the AL. He will go deep into games having to face the pitcher three times an outing. The only line-up that might hurt him might be the Phillies, but other than that, there aren’t any other teams that can really boast a powerful lefty heavy line-up.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 9, 2009 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
I would rather Holliday
When push comes to shove, the Mets need a real LFer. I would be willing to sacrifice pitching for that. A strong line-up can still get us in teh play-offs. A rotation of Johan and Lackey still requires three other guys plus the bullpen to hold their own.
It would be great if the Mets could bring in both Holliday and Lackey, but the Wilpons might be gun shy, and I can’t blame them.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 9, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Marquis wants a multi-year deal right?
I’ll pass. I’d rather take the chance on a proven upper-tier starter like Lackey now if it was a one year deal I might consider just becuase of next-years potential FA crop.
Lackey's not gonna get a one-year deal
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
ah, I didn't see the headline
I just read the comment, and the no punctuation between talking about Lackey and talking about the one year contract threw me off
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Millwood did.
In effect, it’s 1/9. Just what the doctor ordered.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:00 AM EST up reply actions
Holliday and Marquis
Marquis probably isn’t looking for more than 2-3 years. We can take a chance on Sheets/Harden/Bedard and get lucky. I just don’t want to be collared to a 5-6 year big money contract to a pitcher who isn’t awesome. I’ve seen too many of those blow up.
Holliday and Marquis
Say, for arguments sake
Holliday 6/108
Marquis 3/27
Lackey 5/82.5
Cameron 2/20
That’s an additional 32.5 million overall, but Holliday’s much much more likely to be useful over the life of his contract than Lackey. The yearly money is
H/M: 27 per for the first 3 years, 18 per for years 4 through 6.
L/C: 26.5 for the first two years, 16.5 for the last three years.
I can’t see paying $50 million for Lackey’s age 33-35 seasons.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 8, 2009 11:16 PM EST up reply actions
How about Holliday, Marquis AND Sheets?
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
I'd much rather we get a second sure thing for the rotation.
Millwood was available. Arroyo and Harang probably will be.
I’m pretty much the only poster on this site who doesn’t think we need to gamble on the starting rotation.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:01 AM EST up reply actions
No, I'd prefer to do what you do.
But I’d, in general, rather take risks with a much better payout than content ourselves to (less than) mediocrity.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
I think you are overpaying
From what I have read from the “experts” Holliday might come for 5/80 and Lackey realistically won’t get more than 4/60 maybe with a 5th year.
Marquis is not worth 9m and certainly not for 3 years. One good year doesn’t make him a top of the rotation pitcher.
by scott from peekskill on Dec 9, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Ollie got 12 per and he wasn't a top of the rotation
I think you are undervaluing contracts here…..All those players will get those, if not more.
that was my AAOP
Lackey and Holliday and i don’t think burnett money is too much for Lackey it’s about what he deserves.
I can understand why the Mets might rather pay for an ace
but what does that have to do with Lackey?
wilson valdez
apparently we got rid of will “the spill” valdez
“kendavidoff: Apologies if this has been out there already, but the #Phillies have signed former #Mets IF Wilson Valdez to a minor-league deal. "
Ross Gload
Ross Gload should soon sign a two-year deal with an NL East team, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The only question is: which team will he choose? The Phillies, Braves and Marlins are all interested in the 33-year-old utilityman.
yayyy- not us.
let's just not sign anybody
i’d like to have one offseason where omar doesn’t sign someone to a huge useless contract.
Hey, Gina
from Matty Ice:
…a person very familiar with his negitiatons tells me that if OF Jason Bay signs with the Red Sox, the Mets will be in good position to sign free-agent OF Matt Holliday, so long as he gets at least five years and roughly $16 million per season… if the price drops any lower, other teams will again get involved…
5/80 would highway robbery
Yeah if he was expecting Tex money
Then I’d probably be more interested in signing Lackey, but 16 million per for a 27 year old 5 WAR player, there’s just no way I would rather have Lackey than that value.
If Holliday continues at the current level of play
that contract will be a steal for years to come. The economy can’t stay down forever.
In this economy who's going to offer it to him?
The Red Sox have already said they won’t, and all the other big market teams are busy shedding payroll.
I'm starting to believe the Yankees may not go after Holliday hard.
Why, exactly, I couldn’t tell you, but the rumors they don’t want to exceed last year’s payroll SEEM credible, and adding Holliday would pretty much do that.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:04 AM EST up reply actions
well they just got Granderson
so I don’t think they see the need to upgrade their outfield offense as much, and the rumors now are that they’re looking to re-sign Johnny Damon, so that would effectively take them out of the Holliday market, which is just fine by me.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Is Holliday really 27 years old?
I thought he was 29 for some reason. The two years makes a huge difference. It makes a long-term deal much more palatable.
by englishgrey on Dec 8, 2009 11:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nope, he's 29.
And he turns 30 in January. A 6 or 7 year deal at that age doesn’t look so great.
by englishgrey on Dec 8, 2009 11:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah you're right
I don’t know why I thought he was 27, maybe I had him and Granderson confused cause I was convinced he was 30, but anyway yeah a 6-7 year deal wouldn’t be any better than a similar deal with Lackey. but 5/80 is still reasonable.
Yeah I actually thought Tex was way older than he was until after he signed.
I feel like Tex has been around forever and Holliday has only been around for a few years.
She???
lol.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
That would be awesome.
I thought it would be nearer to $20M/yr, and was beginning to think they might be best of spending elsewhere. Anything under 5/$18M the Mets should be in on. He’s been near a 6 win per year guy recently. Even if he’s only a 4 win guy on average the next 5, he’s worth $17M/yr.
Apparently Matt Thorton
and J.J. Putz have a bromance….anyway does anybody want Putz back
let’s say for arguments sake 1 year 1.4 millon with incentives
Yes
At that price he can set up like he was supposed to last season. Dude has a lot to prove and will throw hard for whomever signs him.
Holiday 5/80, I’d love to see him here for that! That is a bargain.
Please Red Sox, sign Bay!
by scott from peekskill on Dec 8, 2009 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'd rather pay the extra million to get the certainty of someone like Kiko Calero
assuming we’re looking for a setup man here.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:05 AM EST up reply actions
Any news on Mr.Luis Castillo the 1 time Mets Season MVP?
I’d rather have Luis Castillo of the San Diego Chargers playing second base.
----Warner----
-------13-------
by Scent of a Woman on Dec 8, 2009 10:47 PM EST reply actions
Did you see the NY Times article on the Mets?
The title of the article suggested that the Mets would address its pitching concerns through free agency. Then the article reported that that the Brewers had offered Randy Wolf a 3 year contract worth anywhere between $28 and $31[#%@&!?^%] million!!! The Mets will not touch that. This offer, the Times article said, meant that Piniero would get a 4 year deal and that Lackey would then get a 5 year deal. That essentially put those pitcher out of our “budget.” The rest is academic … we’re not getting into a bidding war for these pitchers. So, then how are we going to solve our pitching concerns through free agency, as the title implies?
My head is going to explode.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
But seriously most reports have said we have like 30-40 million off the books
I’m not sure if that’s true, but it’s likely close, and the lt threshold should be going up by like 20 million… so what exactly is the problem?
I mean if nothing else you would think, after all the moves the yankees have made the last two seasons, they would want to make a big splash just for image sake, not to mention preventing an uprising from the metsbloggers.
it smells to me like an agent trying to get more money.
But Pavano got 7.5 mil in arbitration so maybe its legit
It's certainly understandable that the big-market Brewers would outmuscle Widdle Fweddie Wilpon.
I’m going to be sick, sick, sick.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 8, 2009 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
It's a better deal than the one the Braves gave Lowe
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 9, 2009 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know
Wolf was kinda lucky last year. Career low walk rate and .257 BABIP. I wouldn’t be surprised if Lowe came closer to being worth the value of his contract next year.
by englishgrey on Dec 9, 2009 12:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah but you could have said essentially the same thing about Lowe a year ago
Career low BB%, and the .280 BABIP was the second lowest of his career. And Wolf is four years younger, has throws just as many strikes, and misses more bats, especially when he gets deep in the count (their SwStrike% is similar but Wolf has the much better kS%). Even if Lowe bounces back and has a better year next year, a steep regression seems very possible, while even if Wolf’s BB% normalizes a bit, he should provide pretty reliable production over the next few years.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 9, 2009 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
ok
due to age, lowe is obviously the bigger risk for a steep regression. but i don’t think his career year in 2008 was all that lucky. yes, he had a career low walk rate, but all other indicators matched his career averages (including his .287 BABIP). the steep drop his k/9 rate is troubling though. if that’s age related, then he’s probably not going to come close to being worth his contract.
lesson to be learned, i think: try to avoid signing pitchers after career years.
Meh
The accuracy of “the fans” need to be tested before I buy it.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 9, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's a cool idea, though.
In theory, any favoritism due to optimistic fans is balanced by cautiousness from other fans and people who hate that player. Hey, I projected Victorino for 1.5 WAR.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
Yeah but most fans aren't going to do every player
Some may do players they love and players they hate, but most are going to focus on the players they’re biased towards already, and I’m guessing in the more favorable sense. Most of the projections I’ve seen seem pretty normally distributed around the James projections, and we all know how to treat those.
Its definitely a fun idea, but that doesn’t mean its going to be accurate. Its just going to accurately reflect an average fan’s perspective on a player. Its not like most fans are sitting there doing their homework, doing mathematical regressions and balancing weighted means. They’re pulling up the window and making educated guesses.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 9, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
I have a feeling all those fangraphs fans’ projections are going to wind up really optimistic, because it’s mostly people projecting players they like playing for their favorite teams.
Why do I feel, then, that the Mets' fans' projections
are going to be just the opposite?
That is
A steep regression for Lowe seems very possible afterwards. And it could even just continue straight from this year into next year. His kS% dropped by about 4 or 5% from what he’d been doing the last couple years, a really troubling sign.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 9, 2009 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
It's not Wolf particularly, it's the preposterous idea that the Mets (acc to HeyMan)
are suffering sticker shock at the entirely predictable price of second-tier FA starting pitchers, which then suggests the FO is going to cry poor and settle for adding Marquis and Byrd and Molina this offseason, which will cause us to commit collective suicide. Oh, and Henry Blanco. And Alex Cora. And Jeff Francouer.
They'll use the excess money
To lock up Frenchy to a 10 year deal.
But seriously, how embarrassing is it that a team in NY, the second most profitable and second most valuable team in the league, with like 30 million coming off the books, a new stadium, not to mention the 20 million increase in lt, is aghast at free agent prices?
you like Wolf for 3 and more than 31
but you wouldn’t sign Lackey for 5/80…… please tell me the logic in your thinking…
Who were you putting that question to, RIP?
(In case that was addressed to me, I wouldn’t sign either one of them though if you put a gun to my head I’d prefer Wolf. In case you’re interested I set out my reasoning in AAOP: POSTSEASON BOUND! )
oo, sam
that’s garcia-un-parra-donable
by Pack Bringley on Dec 9, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
well at least its 2 years and not more
not that i’m in any way thrilled with the idea of Benji in a met uniform, but it shows a tiny bit of restraint by Omar to not offer him the longer (3+ year) contract he’s looking for.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
that'll come in negotiations
along with a 4th year vesting option that triggers if he wears a cup.
by Pack Bringley on Dec 9, 2009 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
Sweet jesus christ. Here we go again.
Molina at 6m, Cora at 2mil, pretty soon you’re talking real ballplayers we won’t have the money to sign. FanGraphs has some good stuff on Wolf and why he’s likely to be worth the 3/29.75 deal he signed with the Brewers. Even though I have my doubts about him he or someone like him has to be a better deal for that kind of money than Molina and Cora.
maybe the Mets are saying this
To pressure another catcher to accept their deal… This really don’t make sense but it’s what I choose to believe
by RIPShea on Dec 9, 2009 10:57 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
12 million total right?
Meh it could be worse, but hopefully now that they’ve snatched up their prize off the off-season they can move onto other positions.
Because really if Molina is all we get out of this off-season I’ll storm the front offices myself.
that would be too much
word is they’re starting to target FA pitchers much more attentively now though, so we’ll probably see at least one of those added, although god knows which one.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Attentively now that Wolf and Millwood are off the table.
And Greg Zaun, and Placido Polanco.
Omar’s like some ______ who can only focus on one thing at a time.
Must…. have…. catcher….. [but Omar! All those starters are signing with other teams!] Must…. have…. catcher….
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:10 AM EST up reply actions
He's the king of tunnel vision
at least the other incompetent gms can do multiple dumb things at a time.
seriously
that’s kinda how I roll in sports video games – I’ll sort by position and decide which guys to target. Of course, the only difference is that in video games, it takes me like 4 minutes to go through all the positions. It takes Omar like 4 months.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
the money isn't horrible
but i’m not looking forward to having to watch molina try to round the bases (when he does actually get on base) for two years
Negotiating with Omar
Omar: There are plenty of catchers on the market and no one else appears to be interested in you. We’ll give you 1 year, $6 million.
Bengie: 2 years, $12 million.
Omar: Done
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 9, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Afterwards Omar walks out with a smirk patting himself on the bat saying
“these free agents don’t know bout mah skillz”
The Big Giant Head!
or Stone Phillips, whichever you prefer.
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
Tiger Woods' 69th Girlfriend!
----Warner----
-------13-------
by Scent of a Woman on Dec 9, 2009 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Because, incredibly, he WANTS to sign him for two years.
It’s the 20HR thing, the divestment of risk thing. Omar thinks Molina is worth 2/12.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:11 AM EST up reply actions
That's really not a bad deal
He’s worth about about 2 WAR, or, $8 million per year.
by TheBigStapler on Dec 9, 2009 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
He was worth that
last year, but as a catcher at his age, he figures to decline, unless he takes some of Jorge Posada’s magic juice. Plus, I believe WAR doesn’t take base-running into account.
Fair enough but he has not shown any decline yet. If this deal is made, we’re getting an average catcher at a fair rate, which is hardly inspiring but not dreadful.
by TheBigStapler on Dec 9, 2009 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
my concern is any decline in his bat
and he won’t be able to hide his defensive shortcomings. I agree as far as deals go 2/12 is actually probably around market value, which for this team is a steal since we’re not overpaying by 50%.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
But this will most likely be percieved as our "big bat" this offseason.
Which is just incredibly stupid. And additionally, the “average catcher” part of that equation doesn’t consider catcher defense, which by most counts Bengie is quite bad at.
"I dunno. I never smoked any Astroturf"
-Tug McGraw
War doesn't take catcher defense into account though
or fangraph’s doesn’t at least. And if nothing else his CS numbers were some of the worst in the league
It's the plain fact that there are gaping holes all over the roster,
one of which at least now won’t get filled.
This is the 2004 offseason all over again.
High priced, mediocre vets that do nothing to push the team into contention and nothing to improve the team for the future.
[gags]
2/12 is not that much money
But seriously, giving the most money to one of the worst catchers available is so Omar
It's not even that
…we’ve signed 85,000 catchers this offseason and not a single one of them is solid.
Molina's solid.
He’s built like a boulder.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 9, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
you've got it all wrong
he’s signing Molina to play left field because he hits home runs. That way we don’t need Holliday
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I didn't even think of that!
And yes, Molina is solidly built..maybe he can actually block the plate? Omir…you listening?
In fact
Molina’s going to recline a few yards up the 3rd base path while one of our youngsters catches behind the plate. We’ll call him “Shipwreck Island,” and win every game!
by Pack Bringley on Dec 9, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
Anybody hear Manuel on SNY talk about our defense?
He said something to the effect of “If we play the best defense in the league, we HAVE A CHANCE of winning.”
Ugh. Our manager is SO inspiring.
"Never throw a slider to The Glider."
- Ed Charles, No. 5
You're making it sound too good
it was more along the lines of “with the best defense anyone has ever played, we have a chance to be competitive.”
Incredible. A team that can afford a $150 million payroll
has a “chance to be competitive!”
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:13 AM EST up reply actions
Amazin NYT blog post on Omar & Ricco fighting ...
…over who gets credit for the “winning” Francouer/Church trade:
"I haven’t had too many W’s so I’ll take it," Minaya said.
http://bats.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/09/five-months-later-mets-win-trade/
Good lord
My favorite part: “Francouer’s energy, defense and production meshed nicely at Citi Field.”
Even if you believe that, I love how production is third in the equation.
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 9, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I love how the first thing in the equation is BS and the second thing is incorrect
I hate how Frenchy “is assured of being the Mets’ opening day right fielder”.
but
we won the trade!! because the Mets got the only piece left on the board not DFA’d or sent to Pittsburgh!! Yay! At least we know exactly how Frenchy will get to Pittsburgh when the time comes.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 9, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
haha
yes, we “won” the trade because the Mets are too stupid to realize that Frenchy’s BABIp might regress and turn him back into – surprise – the same player he’s been for the last four years
I disagree
I think you’re giving them too much credit. They probably loved the player he was the last four years.
a-rod dealt well with the pression
mlbtr commenter just now: “I believe his post season overcome was basically taking the steroids pression out of his chest, and (this might sound silly) divorcing his ex, while dating a good person like Kate Hudson. I know, it sounds silly, but hitting is 50% mental, and last season, it definetely proved it.”
by Pack Bringley on Dec 9, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
That was funny.
This thread has been pretty entertaining, considering how gloomy this whole off-season is beginning to appear, its great we can squeeze out a few laughs.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 9, 2009 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
dunno if its been posted
but mets are apparently only willing to go one year with molina, and they are also making a push to sign jason bay
link on molina
here. this is all so stupid. i’m going to go read a book.
by Pack Bringley on Dec 9, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Cerrone has that the Mets are starting pursue the big more aggressively, not only just Bay.
by Coolpapabell on Dec 9, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Ugh. Bay turned down 4/60 with the Red Sox, iirc,
so we’re looking at 4/64 or worse. For a guy who’s already on the verge of being a DH?
Please, just, no.
Jon Heyman says the Mets have given up on trying to unload Castillo
4 years, $24 million: the gift that keeps on giving
fine
I’d rather pay Castillo for two more years than dump his salary and give a bad contract to Orlando Hudson and get ourselves right back in the same crappy situation.
agreed
you just wish omar would figure out these are bad contracts before giving them out next time. Give Castillo 24 over 4 years, then desperately try to unload him one year later. Give Perez 36 over 3, then immediately regret it.
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 9, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
i agree with the above sentiments
omar should focus more on not f**ing up like this again. I’d rather suffer Castillo than pay his way out of town just so Hudson can be next in line to get paid. Now dumping Ollie is another, more spiritual matter.
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
fourthed.
Castillo has value. Not a lot, mind you, but he was a 1.6 WAR player last year.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:16 AM EST up reply actions
fine by me, too
as long as someone else plays 2nd base at Yankee stadium this year.
you know what I'm sayin' ?
Looks like the Mets have no likely takers on Castillo
http://twitter.com/nyp_joelsherman/status/6498186606
guess 2b is filled for next year.
Polanco was the man, Castillo as backup for when Placido needed a day off, or needed
to spend a month at ss or 3b.
PP was a vastly better way to spend $6mil a year.
i couldnt agree more
but ultimately castillo is too expensive to justify as a backup, and the Mets don’t understand the idea of a sunk cost.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Mets seeing if Rays will flip Shoppach
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/mets/amazin_puzzled_by_mound_market_mound_X661aTFWaIZ1Gmjy4npCTN
at the bottom of that column. Why not just trade the ptbnl for him?
Why didn't we just make a move for him in the first place?
Could we not match the steep PTBNL price?
And still im so offended at the mets having sticker shock, I understand you don’t want to overpay but Wolf apparently only got 9 million per right? Is that really that unreasonable? What could they have been expecting?
If "sticker shock" is true, the saddest thing...
is they had no clue of the market. Did anyone really think Wolf was only going to get like 2 years, 15 million?
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 9, 2009 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah it's kind of pathetic
How does a major league front office apparently misevaluate the market as much and as often as we seem to do? Or seem to have zero idea of players values. Cora for 2 million makes perfect sense, but Wolf for 9 per is outrageous? I really wonder how they come up with prices for players.
More evidence
Rosenthal tweets: “Mets have yet to make offer to free-agent C Bengie Molina. They are unsure of his market – and unwilling to bid against themselves.”
Another market the Mets can’t evaluate. At least they are aware of their own shortcomings in this instance.
I make Bengie a hair above replacement level
Fangraphs has him at 1.8 WAR last year. If you dock him 8 runs for his excruciating baserunning (it is in fact that bad), subtract another 5 runs for slightly below average defense, and debit him for the fact that (I believe) that 1.8 WAR doesn’t properly adjust for Bengie’s subatomic OBP, and he’s next to useless except for the fact that something’s gotta keep pitches from rolling all the way to the backstop.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:22 AM EST up reply actions
3 years is a bit steep
I would not be crazy about giving out a three year contract to Wolf. Its $9M per so you imagine that they would have to up it to $11M to beat that. No thanks.
I agree
But it just cracks me up that someone who gave Ollie 3 years, 36 million just last year can now be like “Whoa, whoa, whoa. Randy Wolf and Joel Pineiro want more than 2 years? That’s insanity.”
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 9, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
And as far as anyone knows
We were the only team who even had an offer on the table for Ollie, so it’s not like the market dictated that price.
yeah,
but, in fairness to Omar, the market for Lowe looked slow last year as well. Had Smoltz just signed with Atlanta, the Mets likely could have had Lowe for roughly 40/3. But all of the sudden, Atlanta panicked and signed Lowe to a ridiculous contract. I guess Omar just wanted to avoid making the same “mistake” again with Perez.
Boras played it nicely. There were no decent pitchers left at that point
other than Ollie (iirc), so missing out on him would have left a huge hole in an already thin rotation. Hence the panicky overbid.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:24 AM EST up reply actions
of course
we ended up with something worse than a hole. Ugh.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Also I'm not saying it's not a bit steep
Just that it’s not high enough that they should be shocked at the price. I think even most fans expected them to be getting those kind of offers/deals.
Yup. It seems like there were a lot of reasonable deals to be had
in this market by moving early. So, naturally, Omar is sitting back and waiting for the market to come to him.
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Pudge? Wolf? Petitte? Polanco? Wagner? Saito? Harden?
Some of those guys aren’t awful deals, but they aren’t exactly cheap. The real deals (Abreu, Wolf, Hudson) from last year were the result of waiting, and this year will likely be no different. There’s lots to criticize Omar for, but this isn’t one of them.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 9, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
But who's left to wait on?
Last year the market was flooded with guys, this year not so much. Who is there left to wait on? Marquis? I’d rather he had jumped to sign someone like Harden of Wolf than wait to snatch up Marquis, or the one I know is coming, Bay, for a few million less than they could have spent for much better options.
Marquis, Piniero, Sheets, Bedard, Garland, Pedro, Lackey...
Plus trade candidates and non-tenders may fill other teams needs. There are still plenty of better options than Randy Wolf on a three year deal, although I’m a fan of the Harden contract.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 9, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions
My point kind of is, none of those guys are particularly good. Sheets and Bedard are just queston marks all around, with bedard you may be waiting until July, there’s just no real chance Pedro is coming back to us and Lackey is a different issue. To me the only guys you’d really be waiting on are Marquis, Piniero and Garland I think I’d rather have Wolf for 9 million per than any of them unless they sign for peanuts, though I may prefer Garland in general.
And the problem is we don’t really have any pieces to move in a trade and we don’t really need roster filling players, who are who I would expect non-tender candidates to be, we need significant contributors in the rotation and I don’t think those guys are going to show up from non-tenders.
The thing is, I'd guess that Sheets and Bedard both sign one year deals worth less than Harden.
Harden is the only question mark to sign yet. Of Garland, Piniero, and Marquis I’d guess at least one of them settles for one year at less than 9 million.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 10, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
But Harden is also the "safest"
of the question marks. Since Sheets has missed a year of baseball and no one knows when Bedard will be available. So it’s not like we’re waiting on equal players they may sign cheaper but they’ll also come with much higher risks. And to me out of Garland/Piniero/Marquis Garland is really the only likeable option, it’s hard to believe the other two will be much more of an upgrade over what we already have.
But any of the Wolf/Garland/Marquis/Piniero types are probably not a guy you want to commit 3 years to.
Garland at 1/10 is a much better signing than Wolf at 3/29.75. None are front line starters, so I’d like to see the Mets stop clogging their roster with expensive veterans that limit their flexibility in the future.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 10, 2009 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
Millwood for one. Definitely Polanco.
Wolf is probably a reasonable choice.
However I’ll be happy to apologize if by waiting Omar gets Cincy to blink and hand us Harang and Arroyo and throw in some salary relief, or nabs Holliday for 5/80 when the Yanks and Red Sox bail.
I hope you’re right, in other words.
by SeanSchirmer on Dec 10, 2009 6:26 AM EST up reply actions
and of course
he adds: “No wonder the big spenders want him: #Mariners #Yankees #Redsox .”
A certain team missing there?
holy shit
I just realized why that guy’s name is familiar, he used to write about hockey (and other sports) for the Harvard Crimson. F that guy.
Harvard sucks
esp their hockey team
I.M. Forme
"When you get yourself into trouble is when you feel you have to do something, and then you get yourself in trouble." --Omar Minaya
by itsmetsforme on Dec 9, 2009 11:06 PM EST up reply actions
Well, there is Jeremy Lin...
He’s awesome at basketball.
by boom_roasted on Dec 10, 2009 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
He is good.
Harvard is depressingly good at basketball now. It’s not fair. Damn Tommy Amaker. He’s bringing in recruits that have no business playing in the Ivy League.
O's close to acquiring Millwood from Rangers for Chris Ray
According to the Baltimore Sun.
That sounds like an awful deal for Texas.
That sounds like an awful deal for Baltimore
Milwood is filler getting paid like a mid-rotation starter. Chris Ray has “closer potential”
I didn't even realize Chris Ray was still around
and I’m like completely serious. That being said I’m pretty sure they’re in major financial trouble and have to shed payroll and he’s getting paid 12 million this year and they have a crapton of young arms coming up and a pretty woeful bullpen so I don’t think it’s that bad of a deal for them.
It's the money
MLB had to loan the Rangers money this year. And the team’s currently for sale, right? All signs point to salary dump for the Rangers.
In other news
If there’s a significant drop in payroll this year, and it’s well under the luxury tax threshold, and no big names, other than Molina, I feel like they’ll have a pretty huge PR problem on their hands.
I hope so
But every report seems to be pointing otherwise and, to my chagrin the only big name they seem interested in is Lackey.
I really really really really hope the big name they get isn’t Bay though.
yeah Bay would not make me Happy.
I also think the Mets are being coy with Holliday. They know that the market for him tips in their favor as long as the Redsox resign Bay.
Yeah Bay seems like worst case scenario
We sign Holliday I’m okay, fans don’t riot. We sign Lackey I’m more meh on it but it’s still probably a solid sign and fans won’t riot. We sign no one, massive PR problems, everyone’s pissed and Metsbloggers storm HQs resulting in a a complete overhaul of the front office.
We sign Bay we’ll likely WAY overpay but because he’s a big name we won’t even get to look forward to a riot.
That's my fear
I just have a bad feeling they’re going to lose out on Holliday (who I want) and Lackey (not so much) and to compensate they’re going to give Bay practically the same money it would have taken to get Holliday
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 9, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
good point
better way to phrase it is i fear they’ll get scared off Holliday’s asking price (more sticker shock, you know) and, eager to make a splash, end up signing Bay for not much less than what Holliday ends up getting
by Bieser's Balk on Dec 9, 2009 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
dont worry they'll overpay a bunch of talentless players
so we still keep payroll even without actually improving anything
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
That sounds about right
Strikeout/flyball pitcher in front of a terrific OF defense. Smart.
by James Kannengieser on Dec 9, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions
Acordding to Brian Costa and Not Omar Minaya,
The Mets are closing in on B. Molina…a meeting/offer appears inevitable.
per:
http://twitter.com/Ledger_NYMets
http://twitter.com/NotOmarMinaya
Lol I'm going through the second links posts
and dying
“elmer dessens: 3.86K/9 last year. that’s almost 4. that’s 4 outs we can rely on every time he takes the mound! 1yr/$2m makes sense to me. "
brilliant
wow, thats a sad commentary on peoples understanding of math
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
ah didnt see who the tweet was from
that restores a small piece of my faith in humanity. a small one mind you, but a piece
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
Dear mother of god: Royals offer Kendall 2 years
http://twitter.com/Royals_Report/status/6510496811
There’s no way Molina will settle for 1 year, and I can’t honestly blame him.
i used to
until i realized somehow that badness has translated into a lucrative career in baseball. I wish I could make that much money for sucking at my job
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Man, that's depressing.
I’m good at my job, and he’ll make my yearly salary in a game or two.
by BobbyV_Incognito on Dec 9, 2009 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
even if he is the worst player in the major leagues
He is still one of the thousand or so best at his job in the country. The top thousand at most careers will make over the major league minimum, so I’m not sure how out of proportion it really is…
I don't think it's out of proportion
But that doesn’t make it not depressing.
Plus even the major league minimum is 400,000 a year isn’t it?
to me it's only depressing because it is such a visible profession
but if there are 750 players on active rosters earning 400,000 or more, then I would like to think that if I were one of the top 750 lawyers in the country, I would be making a lot more than that.
Factor in that the average career in MLB will only last 10-15 years while most careers last 3-4 times that, and you start feeling sorry for the guys.
These guys aren’t bad at their jobs – we just see them every night in HD.
Yeah but does one of the top 750 lawyers in the country
Get paid 400,000 to sit on the end of the bench? Or be that last resort guy in the bullpen that no one really wants to see come in the game?
he would be
if there were only 30 law firms in the country
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
Now thats not fair.
There are hundreds of baseball teams in the country, and thousands of players who make their living that way. The guys we have heard of are the top few hundred. The biggest companies do only go to the same 30 firms or so over and over again.
still though
there’s way less professional baseball teams than there are law firms and way less professional baseball players than there are lawyers. And my point is that the less people there are in a profession, the higher the scrutiny will be on those in it, and people will get paid a lot more even if they aren’t as insanely highly qualified as some others in their profession.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
you're right
and the market should be skewed by so many people wanting to get careers in the field. The problem is, that is countered by so few teams being willing to look outside the box to round out the bench, and the lack of freely available talent.
Where I do disagree with you is how qualified the players are. I would argue that the smaller field would require higher qualification levels to get in. I think the difference in perceptive is that we consider physical ability luck, while we consider intelligence hard work. the higher scrutiny is due to being in the public eye – not the smaller profession
if the market can support it, then sure.
At major litigation, when you see 10 guys sitting at a table for a big company, the last few of those guys are paid to be available when they’re needed. There are also guys being paid just not to be on the other side (think experts in narrow fields during patent litigation).
I think the better argument is whether or not the guy we’re talking about is actually one of the top 750. In Molina’s case, he belongs there, but probably closer the 500,000 to 1 mill range. However, if there are guys on the team who aren’t among the top few thousand (Alex Cora) than they’re closer to the bosses son who keeps getting pay raises due to seniority.
The last sentence
is a perfect analogy. and it made me rofl.
but like I said I have no problem with the prices players get paid. It just doesn’t make it any less depressing.
Yeah but we're not talking about big law partners
we’re talking about the Chris Carters of the world. Derek Jeter is a big law partner.
I think you're overestimating the biglaw partners
there are thousands of them, and the make a lot. Starting biglaw salary is 160,000 + bonus out of law school, at least in NY. Those guys will get their annual promotions, and can be just as immature as athletes…
Think of all the happiness that can buy
by Pack Bringley on Dec 9, 2009 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
they also work 80 hours a week
and don’t get to play a kids game for a living. I’d rather be a ballplayer
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
And drive law firms into the ground with poor business decisions
causing much consternation for my fellow 2Ls…
Most teams look at this and say
The Royals are idiots, im not changing my offers.
Omar will probably look at it and say, I must have mis-evaluated the market let me up it to 3 years.
It IS a thin market for catchers,
though I’m surprised Kendall’s getting two years.
Would have been a good year to pick up 2 catchers for 1 to 2m each.
its only a thin market because we've signed them all
all part of Omars evil plans to build a team entirely of catchers.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 11:40 PM EST up reply actions
ok, now MLBtraderumors
says it could be the Mariners again.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/12/rich-harden-on-verge-of-agreement.html
by Jsz on Dec 9, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
if mariners sign harden and nick johnson
they’re my new favorite AL team. unless they end up signing bay. then i take it back.
i still feel like they're too smart to sign Bay
but i’ve been wrong before.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
Bay in Seattle would be fine
as long as he’s a DH
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 9, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
ah didnt even think of DH
that would be a decent idea then.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
Thats because the DH shouldn't exist
I hate the American League and there made for people who think baseball is too boring rules
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 9, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions
*their
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 9, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions
i agree
the DH is a blight on baseball, if you can call the AL baseball.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
I kinda like it
Having unique rules for the two leagues.
unfortunately it creates an imbalance between the two leagues
I’d hate the AL slightly less if they didn’t have a superiority complex, but even ignoring that, it takes so much of the strategy out of the game, and that really kills it for me.
by KeithsMoustache on Dec 9, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions
Let's not forget the proof that the DH is evil
Tim Teufel hit Jim Gott in the Al but not in the NL — proof that the DH rule is the devil’s creation.
Get outta here. I already said the Mariners were my AL team.
"Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes!"
Gil Hodges IS a Hall of Famer.
by Brooklyn Dodgers Mets Fan on Dec 9, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Right now
I would be inclined to guarantee Sheets $5m, rising to $9m based on 25 games started and $13m if he hits 200 innings.
Probably worth it
But interesting that Harden’s deal is apparently not incentive-based, but just a guaranteed $7.5m.
PS – Anyone else see Austin Jackson as just a Melky Cabrera redux? His minor league numbers don’t jump out at you (offensive or defensive), and that’s with a .361 career BABIP.
I said in another thread
I wouldn’t trade Nieuwenhuis for Austin Jackson.
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
Agreed
And another underwritten story of the day (unless I missed it somewhere in the 200 comments above):
The Rangers essentially moved Kevin Milwood today in exchange for Rich Harden, Chris Ray, and leftover cash (!).
Their two moves, taken in totality, were quite impressive (assuming they’re all complete).
So is Harden on Texas or not?
And no word on Sheets yet? I really wanted them to get one of these guys…
I think the Molina signing will put me over the edge
I will not go to a game this year when they are in my town, and I will not renew my MLB package so I can watch him double or perhaps triple Tatis’ ’09 double play total. Thanks, Omar, you fuckstick.
It's not the end of the world
but it is the end of the season
"I see the job in bigger terms. Paperwork, that’s false hustle... Know what I’m sayin’?"
Not really serious
But catcher’s a damn important position. What hope is there when Omar is showing no signs of ever understanding that OBP is a fucking important stat. He’s not learned anything from any of his many many mistakes. He’s still signing old vets past their prime (Cora, Coste, now Molina) when there’s little to no competition for these guys’ services. It’s un-fucking-real.
by Mackey Sasser on Dec 9, 2009 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly it's not just Molina
it’s that our front office is such a mess and apparently incapable of learning. Or even understanding a simple concept that just because a player is good for a few months doesn’t mean he’ll be good for the rest of his career. We’re gonna miss out on Holliday because the front office is convinced Frenchy can be their right fielder for years and they don’t want to block F-mart.
Yeah but it's not just that
It’s the fact they have no idea how to evaluate players or even the market for crappy players.
It's the cumulative cost of several poor decisions.
I actually thought getting Blanco and Coste were good decisions. Add Zaun to that mix along with Santos and Thole and catching ceases to be a black hole in 2010. THEN you take the extra 4mil (Zaun v Molina) and 1.5mil (Valdez v Cora) and use it to go after a good starter, or pay the difference between Holliday and Bay.
What
the astros gave brandon lyron 3/15???
aren’t they trying to cut payroll???
I need to add Wade to my acceptable gms for Omar to deal with list.
Same length, half the money to Wolf's deal
Somehow I have a hard time believing Lyon’s going to be half as valuable as Wolf over the next three years.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 10, 2009 1:49 AM EST up reply actions
If we got someone like Aaron Harang
for almost a pure salary drop, how much forgiveness would Omar receive or what would be the next move you expected/hoped for.
Apparently Fernando Martinez left his DWL game in the bottom of the first after singling and scoring in the top
Taking bets, 2 to 1 injury, 5 to 1 trade.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 10, 2009 1:44 PM EST reply actions
Neither is very good
I guess maybe the trade could be for someone like Crawford, with Granderson out what other trade possibilities could there be?
Theres that guy in toronto, what was his name?
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
by Stephen Schmidt on Dec 10, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
Meh I'm not a fan of trading for Halladay
And if we’re going to trade F-mart I’d hope we got either a cheap pitcher, so we could afford to pay for an of, or an outfielder back. There’s no way we trade for Halladay, give him the crazy contract he wants, and take on someone like Holliday or Bay. And without one of them, and with suddenly no long-term answer for the other corner outfield spots, not to mention the boat of other prospects we’d probably have to send, I don’t think it would overall be a very vertical move considering the cost.
Hday-1?
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
nightengale
BNightengale
#mlb #mets The Mets have signed former first-round pick pitcher Clint Everets, who was pursued by 15 clubs at winter meetings
Who?
I looked him up after reading this. Nothing really jumped off the page.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2009 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
He's got a pretty awesome
k/9 and fip, though at really low levels considering he’s 25, only 40 innings above A+. A cheap bullpen solution?
Not to beat a dead horse but he doesn’t seem like a better option than a number of guys that could have been taken in the rule 5 draft.
I suppose
But, hey, it’s not like we traded for him either.
"He's definitely mixing it into his repertoire. That's French for 'repertoire' " - Keith Hernandez
by Catsmeat Potter-Pirbright on Dec 10, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
At least you can take a look at him in Triple-A first though
And you don’t have to return him if he isn’t instantly ready to contribute.
"All energy flows according to the whims of the great magnet
What a fool I was to defy him"
-HST
by Mark Himmelstein on Dec 10, 2009 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
(Repeat post)....Mike Francesa just reported that the Mets...
actually plotted the flight path of every fly ball hit by Bay and Holliday and overlaid said path over the footprint of Citifield. This showed Bay’s HRs going out in the LF corner, while Holliday’s long fly balls would be caught in the gaps.
Apparently, they felt Bay was a better natural fit for Citi than Holliday.
By extrapolation, one can also assume they don’t believe HoJo can teach Holliday to pull much like he couldn’t show Wright.
Conclusion: Wright will be traded because he can’t pull the ball.
you know what I'm sayin' ?
if that's true
I actually will have a modicum of respect for the Mets FA. I don’t necessarily agree with their thinking, but at least they will have a legitimate, researched reason for preferring Bay to Holliday.
"[The Giants] beat us down. We were beat by a grown-man team, a team we want to be like one day. They came in here and took it to us. Out-manned us, out-gunned us. ... It wasn't even close." - Raheem Morris, 9/27/09
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